EPTPsi Storm Balance - Page 5
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
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micronesia
United States24805 Posts
On March 22 2010 04:49 Louder wrote: Feedback outranges emp so shut the newb qqing about emp off please Louder do you see good terran being able to dodge/prevent storms well enough to not get destroyed, especially on tighter maps? Every p I talk to says how easy it is but I haven't seen/done it that much :p | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On March 22 2010 04:53 micronesia wrote: Louder do you see good terran being able to dodge/prevent storms well enough to not get destroyed, especially on tighter maps? Every p I talk to says how easy it is but I haven't seen/done it that much :p If you don't get destroyed in defence / open field as Terran, you'll get destroyed in offence when Protoss has tight chokes (Lost Temple) where he can spawn high templars that can storm instantly with their energy upgrade. Pretty much my experience, Terran needs to pull a miracle in micro. I'm not saying storm is overpowered to begin with, but its mechanic should change as I pointed out on page 3. | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
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member1987
141 Posts
I think its quite balanced as it is, and Colossus is a lot more viable currently than any storm. | ||
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Failsafe
United States1298 Posts
we've already established that zealots, immortals, collossi, high templar, scvs, marauders, marines, medivacs, roaches, hydralisk, banelings, mutalisk, broodlords, carriers, the mothership, the corruptor, the banshee, and the command center are overpowered units. personally i think we should just remove them all | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On March 22 2010 05:18 Failsafe wrote: if i ever lose a game to a protoss that uses psi storm i guess i'll start to worry about it... we've already established that zealots, immortals, collossi, high templar, scvs, marauders, marines, medivacs, roaches, hydralisk, banelings, mutalisk, broodlords, carriers, the mothership, the corruptor, the banshee, and the command center are overpowered units. personally i think we should just remove them all Then it would be StalkerCraft 2... | ||
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micronesia
United States24805 Posts
On March 22 2010 05:07 member1987 wrote: No. Although Blizzard could actually increase the storm damage, but increase the storm effect from 3 to 4 seconds also. I think its quite balanced as it is, and Colossus is a lot more viable currently than any storm. Changing the duration of storm is certainly one proposed idea. You are entitled to feel that colossus is much more viable, but I have no idea why you think that storm isn't effective. From what I've seen it is. On March 22 2010 05:18 Failsafe wrote: if i ever lose a game to a protoss that uses psi storm i guess i'll start to worry about it... we've already established that zealots, immortals, collossi, high templar, scvs, marauders, marines, medivacs, roaches, hydralisk, banelings, mutalisk, broodlords, carriers, the mothership, the corruptor, the banshee, and the command center are overpowered units. personally i think we should just remove them all You are either an amazing player or you haven't played many high-level protoss players who choose to use storm (or even weaker players if they get a few good storms off). In the process of discussing how to deal with things our opponent did that hurt us we are going to talk about the ways in which it seems like we can't come up with a viable solution. This is going to of course happen with most units since they are all still new to us. To imply that we shouldn't discuss our problems with storm because we've had problems with many other units is silly. Either add to the discussion by helping us non protoss how to deal with storm, or by explaining ways in which we can't deal with storm effectively. Just complaining about our choice of discussion makes no sense when you can leave the thread without posting. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On March 22 2010 04:49 Louder wrote: Feedback outranges emp so shut the newb qqing about emp off please You're going to have medivacs anyways, so stim a marauder a few times to drain 1 of your medivac's energy, then plop the ghost in there. Can't be feedback sniped and toss has shit AA so there's next to zero way the medivac will die before your ghost drops and his entire tech choice is made useless. Toss can do the same thing with warps; load a few templar, drop em for storm, then deploy and use warp-in for another 4 templar for rape: the second coming. All comes down to who's going to out-micro the other party which is far more suspenseful and interesting to watch (and play) than just a moving all your shit up. I think the current EMP/Feedback balance has the potential to be spot on once players ramp it up. | ||
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micronesia
United States24805 Posts
On March 22 2010 05:45 L wrote: You're going to have medivacs anyways, so stim a marauder a few times to drain 1 of your medivac's energy, then plop the ghost in there. Can't be feedback sniped and toss has shit AA so there's next to zero way the medivac will die before your ghost drops and his entire tech choice is made useless. Toss can do the same thing with warps; load a few templar, drop em for storm, then deploy and use warp-in for another 4 templar for rape: the second coming. All comes down to who's going to out-micro the other party which is far more suspenseful and interesting to watch (and play) than just a moving all your shit up. I think the current EMP/Feedback balance has the potential to be spot on once players ramp it up. While the ghost can't be sniped in that situation... can't the templar get off storms before the ghost can be dropped and cast a good emp? The medivac can also still get picked off by stalker/sentry/etc | ||
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Aerox
Malaysia1213 Posts
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buhhy
United States1113 Posts
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TwilightStar
United States649 Posts
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
its like if you didnt shut toss out with muta and took out the entire map you wouldnt stand a chance. its the invertedly correlated mutual imbalance! | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On March 22 2010 04:27 micronesia wrote: Congratulations. You are poster number 34 in this thread who takes a potentially viable point and tacks onto it a complaint about the other people rather than just their ideas which you clearly are attempting to refute. Does emp do the same damage to the core protoss army as storm does to terran? That's obviously a question to address. Also heat seeking missile might warrant its own discussion but I honestly haven't used it much yet so I'm not going to disagree with you about it's possible strength or even imbalance. Emp won't wipe out the core of the protoss army but storm definitely can wipe out a huge % of the MM almost instantly if good storms are cast on to clumped (stimmed?) units on tight maps. It's a question of how capable terrans will become of minimizing damage from storms and getting of effective EMPs. I'm writing this while listening to day9 so I might not be totally coherent sorry lol Ok, I'll try to be more coherent @ the bolded part, yes, a well placed EMP hurts the toss army almost as much as a well placed storm hurts the terran bio army. This is because the protoss relies on sentry to reduce the damage done to his army, that shield is negated. Protoss shields are gone. This leaves the toss army extremely vulnerable, as does a storm to a terran army that has moved out of a storm, but took some of the damage. Storm only wipes out an army if you fight in a choke, or if you arent fast enough to dodge it. I've played plenty of games where the terran would emp some of my army, and then engage in hit and run, letting his mauraders slow some of my forces, and using stim to keep running out of range of a good storm. if you just engage and let them blob up, a storm will devastate your army, but thats the same as a zvp in sc1 with hydra against zeal/temp, however in sc1 zerg didnt have the ability to kite the entire toss army QUITE as well as the MMM ball can with stim. Try using this, i GUARANTEE you will see good results, this kind of micro always makes it very hard to cast storms that do any damage On March 22 2010 04:45 G.s)NarutO wrote: How is HSM instant? First of all you can see what unit is being the target of the HSM. Secondly its slow and will fall harmlessly to the ground if you run away from it for 5 seconds-_-; Also please don't talk about the HSM in a thread thats about Storm. When I said instant I meant it isnt Damage over time. Also, its not really that easy to dodge for most units, only the moderately fast ones. And most of your units will be snails after getting shat on by mauraders anyway xD | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
In BW you would go templar because of the crazy damage and because it's much more controlable than reavers. Plus if enemy went muta you could make a couple of archons with ur army. PLUS! if you wanted to try and sneak a DT, you also had that option. NOW they made it so that the reaver has become this more mobile and more controllable unit that can avoid damage by staying in the back of your army with its sweet range. Templar damage has been nerfed and archons suck ass with no splash. OH and also you need a seperate building if you want to go DTs. going templar just seems a lot less flexible now. anybody else feel this way? Oh and im platinum by the way, just so that people dont say that im talking completely out my ass. | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On March 22 2010 08:15 pzea469 wrote: i would like for storm to have longer duration so that its more dodgeable and not instant damage. Also a buff would be nice to go with it. However, if u say storm is imba then collossi are crazy imba. Theres no good reason to go templar instead of collossi, at least thats the way i see it. I mean, your gonna get obs anyway right? so why not just keep using the investment of the robo? If u make templar you STILLL need robo for obs. Thats just a lot of gas imo. Ive used templar successfully many times, but i always think that had i gone collossi i would've done even better. In BW you would go templar because of the crazy damage and because it's much more controlable than reavers. Plus if enemy went muta you could make a couple of archons with ur army. PLUS! if you wanted to try and sneak a DT, you also had that option. NOW they made it so that the reaver has become this more mobile and more controllable unit that can avoid damage by staying in the back of your army with its sweet range. Templar damage has been nerfed and archons suck ass with no splash. OH and also you need a seperate building if you want to go DTs. going templar just seems a lot less flexible now. anybody else feel this way? Oh and im platinum by the way, just so that people dont say that im talking completely out my ass. You know, if they changed those two things, I wouldnt mind if storm was even worse then it is now. There needs to be a more juicy incentive for teching templar early on, instead of robo | ||
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hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
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-orb-
United States5770 Posts
On March 22 2010 08:45 hellokitty[hk] wrote: There should be a minor <.5 second pre-storm animation with stormclouds right before it strikes. No? This would just remove intensity from the game and make things slower. Besides, if you're talking about amount of time you have to react, you could accomplish the exact same thing by introducing lan latency into SC2. 400ms latency like that of brood war before lan lat is ridiculous and IMO is a large part of what is causing people to think storm is a problem. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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