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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On March 21 2010 19:00 FREEloss_ca wrote:
I'm in no way calling for a damage nerf. They can even buff the damage for all I care, I just feel it needs to have a longer duration of effect, at least giving some opportunity/purpose to dodge.
Right now It's more of an AoE nuke spell, that's spammable; it feels like a big "I.W.I.N" button...
What about chargelots charging straight into the AoE nuke spelling and "I.W.I.N"ing your own units?
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Well I want to say that if your chargelots get hurt more than his hydras you didn't place the storm correctly but I know it's not that trivial of a problem. Question though: can you rightclick charge off? It's normally on auto-cast, no? I would imagine you can simply make it manual-cast, unless it's the one auto-cast button that doesn't allow you to toggle it off
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Even with a longer duration, it would give you an opportunity to micro your zealots away for 2-3 seconds. Or aim your storms better; aim behind your opponents units so the AoE is just clipping them from behind while your zealots attack from the front.
But I digress...
The Spell is an AoE NUKE; I don't even feel like it fits in Starcraft, it feels like a DOTA spell...
It should do MORE damage, but over a longer duration.
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Psi Storm is fine. If anything, it's just a tad weak now, or perhaps the tech is a tad late. Either way, it's anything but overpowered.
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The thing about storm, that units have way less collision in sc2, and, lets say if u could storm 12 hydras in sc1 with 1 storm, you can storm like 50 hydras in sc2 :}.
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I thought it kinda worked the other way tbh . . . SC2 seems to have more collision. Maybe I'm just high.
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Psi storm is in no way overpowered, I'd even go as far to say as Templar tech is worthless compared to colossus, vs any race.
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Archons need to be more useful so templar tech is on level with robo..
Archon is about the same as 2 zealots.. same hp as 2.. dps as 1 but can attack air, no splash..
Its kinda a waste to morph since you could just make 2 zealots and keep templars..
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On March 21 2010 19:50 FREEloss_ca wrote:
Even with a longer duration, it would give you an opportunity to micro your zealots away for 2-3 seconds. Or aim your storms better; aim behind your opponents units so the AoE is just clipping them from behind while your zealots attack from the front.
But I digress...
The Spell is an AoE NUKE; I don't even feel like it fits in Starcraft, it feels like a DOTA spell...
It should do MORE damage, but over a longer duration.
Any half decent zerg will retreat his hydra drawing your lots into the storm because you can't control their charge once it starts....
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Psistorm might be okay if DT is at same buildings, so it unlocks two. Right now, a separate building for templar high storm.... meh.
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What? Storm is one of the things that need a buff.
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On March 21 2010 21:19 CagedMind wrote:
What? Storm is one of the things that need a buff.
Storm doesn't need a buff at all. I'll explain from my point of view (as Terran) without crying about Storm being imbalanced, because it is not.
Right now the area of effect of storm is really small, but the fact that storm is easy to cast and the damage is dealt really fast (Duration: 4 seconds; ticks 10 damage / 0,5 seconds = 80 damage) makes storm a really powerful spell.
There's a few things I'd like to change; First of all I'd change the unit colossion so units don't stick together like they do now, as Terran your army is mainly marine/marauder and they mostly move together in a big blob which can easily be stormed multiple times and there's NOT(!) enough time to evacuate your units properly. Most of them will die by the time they moved out of the area of effect.
You might try to avoid your complete army sticking together with grouping not more than 20 units in one controlgroup, but that just makes it a little better.
About storm itself, I'd like to change the area of effect so it gets slightly larger, but deals less damager per second, for example they increase the area of effect by 15% while the storm now is 6 seconds and ticks 7,5 damage / 0.5 seconds. This would add up to a total damage of 90 while its area is increased. Technically its a buff, while gameplay wise it would be a nerf.
Kind of like the reaper 'nerf' - buff.
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i agree it should have a little longer effect but I sometimes dont know if its that strong to begin with... pretty sure that storm doesnt kill hydra in one shot so I think its not that strong
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On March 21 2010 22:25 likeaboss wrote:
i agree it should have a little longer effect but I sometimes dont know if its that strong to begin with... pretty sure that storm doesnt kill hydra in one shot so I think its not that strong
With the changes I named it would kill a hydra in one shot but also give the possibility for a good player to micro out of a storm, because it would tick damage not as fast, but deal more damage total.
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Don't have your whole army in one control group.
It's pretty ridiculous in a game with more damage than it's predecessor, to say an already weaker storm in every way should be nerfed.
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On March 21 2010 18:04 w_Ender_w wrote:
You spelled EMP wrong.
This.
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Storm isn't imba now by any means.
Storm had 4 main purposes back in the day.
1.) Killing hydras and mass-lings. It no longer does this as effectively (not a 1-hit kill on hydras).
2.) Raping a T-bio timing push. It still does this.
3.) Softening up bigger units, I.e. Tanks/Ultras/carriers/BCs, etc... It still does this, albeit less effectively.
4.) Harrassing mineral lines. It does this slightly less effectively since it takes like 3 storms to clean out a mineral line now instead of 2.
So basically, in no situation is storm more powerful, relatively speaking, than it was in BW. I mean seriously how many times did you hear people complaining "I can't move my stimmed m&m out of storm when I'm Deep Sixing!" I mean... that's sort of the point.
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United States24805 Posts
Have to wholeheartedly agree with most of the things z/t said in this thread. To the p's who are saying "it's neither OP nor needs a buff, you just gotta learn how to minimize damage" I can respect that even though I'm not sure if I agree.
To the protoss complaining it's underpowered and needs a buff... either you are noob with templar tech units or you get matched up against david kim, cowgomoo, etc, every time you play pvx.
I can't actually speak about pvz much but regarding the argument that storm is weaker since it can't 1 shot a hydra: in sc1 it could one shot a hydra but never did because hydras would almost always move out of the way... what's your point.
Regarding pvt, no matter what terran does bio will clump up to some extent, making it a prime target for storms (medivacs do too but that's a separate issue somewhat). Protoss will have vision of the back row units of terran (ghosts) before terran will have vision of the back row units of protoss since protoss uses melee units and terran doesn't (generally). This makes it easier to get storms off before emp can hit the templar. Storm dodging has been my focus for the past week or two and it's not always very effective. The maps are pretty tight often making it very difficult to dodge. The only success I've had is sometimes retreating so that the chargelots take the brunt of the damage like plexa pointed out, but most p don't seem to get many chargelots while getting storm anymore.
It's almost impossible to prevent storms from happening. To the protoss who say "it's pretty easy to nullify templar with emp" I want to know why I don't hear protoss players whining about how templar are so useless vs terran with ghosts lately.
edit: On March 21 2010 23:59 love1another wrote:
1.) Killing hydras and mass-lings. It no longer does this as effectively (not a 1-hit kill on hydras).
NO! It won't 1 hit kill hydras which should get micro'd out of the way in sc1 OR sc2!
On March 21 2010 23:59 love1another wrote:
Storm isn't imba now by any means.
Storm had 4 main purposes back in the day.
1.) Killing hydras and mass-lings. It no longer does this as effectively (not a 1-hit kill on hydras).
2.) Raping a T-bio timing push. It still does this.
3.) Softening up bigger units, I.e. Tanks/Ultras/carriers/BCs, etc... It still does this, albeit less effectively.
4.) Harrassing mineral lines. It does this slightly less effectively since it takes like 3 storms to clean out a mineral line now instead of 2.
So basically, in no situation is storm more powerful, relatively speaking, than it was in BW. I mean seriously how many times did you hear people complaining "I can't move my stimmed m&m out of storm when I'm Deep Sixing!" I mean... that's sort of the point.
Your #1 wasn't a problem for terran in sc1 since terran didn't need to go bio... it was just an interesting alternate to meching. Good luck with that right now in tvp.
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Yeah storm is damage over time.. I have no idea what is he talking about.
"I feel the damage needs to be spread over a longer period of time, giving players the opportunity to micro away, and avoid at least some of the damage."
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On March 21 2010 23:59 micronesia wrote:It's almost impossible to prevent storms from happening. To the protoss who say "it's pretty easy to nullify templar with emp" I want to know why I don't hear protoss players whining about how templar are so useless vs terran with ghosts lately. edit: Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 23:59 love1another wrote:
1.) Killing hydras and mass-lings. It no longer does this as effectively (not a 1-hit kill on hydras).
NO! It won't 1 hit kill hydras which should get micro'd out of the way in sc1 OR sc2! Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 23:59 love1another wrote:
Storm isn't imba now by any means.
Storm had 4 main purposes back in the day.
1.) Killing hydras and mass-lings. It no longer does this as effectively (not a 1-hit kill on hydras).
2.) Raping a T-bio timing push. It still does this.
3.) Softening up bigger units, I.e. Tanks/Ultras/carriers/BCs, etc... It still does this, albeit less effectively.
4.) Harrassing mineral lines. It does this slightly less effectively since it takes like 3 storms to clean out a mineral line now instead of 2.
So basically, in no situation is storm more powerful, relatively speaking, than it was in BW. I mean seriously how many times did you hear people complaining "I can't move my stimmed m&m out of storm when I'm Deep Sixing!" I mean... that's sort of the point.
Your #1 wasn't a problem for terran in sc1 since terran didn't need to go bio... it was just an interesting alternate to meching. Good luck with that right now in tvp.
I don't understand your comment on my hydra analysis. In BW it 1-hit killed hydras if they weren't micro'd now it doesn't, that's just an issue of numbers 75 < 80 < 90 < 112.
This is reasonable, since hydras are moved to Tier 2.5, but in PvT the problem, as you said is that
...in sc1 since terran didn't need to go bio... it was just an interesting alternate to meching. Good luck with that right now in tvp.
It's not storm that's OP, it's the fact that terran mech is heavily underpowered against P, what with everything being good against tanks and thor.
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