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On January 27 2010 17:15 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2010 17:07 fight_or_flight wrote:
So do massive amounts of male hormones screw a baby up? no, since the male hormones are stopped before/during pregnancy. If they were to continue to take hormones before/during pregnancy, then probably, but one of the side effects of giving male hormones to females is the stopping of menstruation and obviously then no pregnancy is possible in that state. I would be more worried about the ovaries entering some kind of atrophy, but I dont know if they would for sure. On the flip side, a male taking female hormones for even a short length of time will be made permanently sterile. Even if they stop for whatever reason, its too late and they will simply be incapable of producing viable sperm (or much sperm at all for that matter)
so the baby will only be not screwed up physically
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On January 27 2010 19:12 Hanners wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2010 18:37 JohnColtrane wrote:On January 27 2010 17:22 Hanners wrote:On January 27 2010 17:06 Suc wrote:On January 27 2010 16:28 Hanners wrote:+ Show Spoiler +You know what?
Fuck all y'all.
Bunch of haters.
Those of you "worried about the kid" should consider why. Maybe because your hateful views are similar to most people's who are willing to be just as, if not more, vocal/active about it?
The problem is not with these people, their conditions, or their choices. If no one else in the world existed and it was just that family, they would be relieved of a lot of their hardship. No. It sucks to be them because of people like 90% of the responders in this thread. Bunch of bigots who insist that their reality is the only one and considers any challenge to what they know to be "true" (how fucking pretentious is that?) to be a threat and instead of looking within themselves to truly question and understand *why* they find it disturbing, they prefer to sling mud at that perceived threat.
I'm going to let you fucks in on a secret: YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT.
You think you do and are so egotistical as to believe that you are "right" when in reality you don't have any first-hand knowledge or experience in most everything that you think you know. Your judgments are based on *nothing*.
Weak-ass cowards. Because an intelligent argument always begins with insulting the other party. I'm going to let you in on a secret: it doesn't. It doesn't matter whether you think that this kid should not be picked on at all or why it will be, what matters is that it is going to happen no matter what. Moreover, discrimination will probably occur during adulthood if others find out about said child's situation. If you want to argue your point properly and have people take you seriously, you should probably state it a bit more clearly minus the insults. Also, (just reading further down) I agree with with JohnColtrane, where are your statistics? "The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house" -Audre Lorde I will not bow down to a thread full of people who have been so disrespectful and plead for consideration. Oppressors are not deserving of my respect. I am not trying to have an intelligent argument (mostly because that is not possible on the interwebz and is a complete fallacy to try) You do realize that you are asking that these people validate their existence to you, right? Do you have *any* idea how degrading, humiliating, and insulting that is? Do you not see through your own words? Moreover, discrimination will probably occur during adulthood if others find out about said child's situation. Do you not see what is wrong with this? How does it not enrage you that someone is destined to be subjected to prejudice, discrimination, and hate because of who and what they are? Does it not occur to you that maybe a perspective shift is what is required? Try on some compassion. I'm sure if you were in his position, you wouldn't want to be subjected to the aforementioned horridness of society. In fact, I'm sure you'd prefer that it wasn't even an issue worthy of attention or note at all. Unfortunately, I do not have a statistics page set up for sales. I only go by what producers tell me. he isnt commenting on whether or not he thinks discrimination should occur or not, he is just saying it most likely will. i dont know, i see gender based on your physical status rather than what you believe yourself to be. of course, people can do whatever they want with their bodies but i cant say that i am personally thrilled about it ...and he, like many, will stand apathetically by while this person is subjected to this adversity. Your perspective is one based off of "I don't understand it so I do not validate it." There seems to be this idea that people go through this because it is fun and exciting or that they are sexual perverts. Shit's not true. Transition is one of the most unpleasant and painful things that a person can experience. You risk losing everything (family, friends, job, etc.). It is a choice. But for many the choice is either to live or to kill themselves. Unfortunately, fully half or more choose the latter option. The American Medical Association recognizes transsexualism as a legitimate condition. The solution acknowledged is transition, therapy, hormones, and surgery. Regardless, most insurance companies still refuse to cover these treatments. Therapists and doctors require transitioners to live at least one (often *two*) year(s) in the role of the gender they are transitioning to regardless of their "passability" before surgery is authorized. This is a process put in place to ensure that the person transitioning can withstand the hate, discrimination, and prejudices of society. Many suicides, suicide attempts, assaults and murders occur during this time period. If you make it past all that and if you manage to save up enough money (anywhere from $15k-$100k depending on how sloppy of a job you are willing to subject your body to) on your own either through sex work or, funnily enough, the IT industry (because most businesses discriminate), then you are given the letters of reference to go through with it. You are then subjected to several months (years even) of recovery. After all this shit, you are still expected to disclose your history and status to whom it may concern and subject yourself to the same bigotry and hatefulness that you've been experiencing your whole life. People don't understand this. They'd rather write transsexuals off as freaks and perverts. That they're "sick in the head." That they are "confused." If only they knew how horrifying the experience is. Maybe they'd get a clue as to why "that tranny bitch is crazy!" They may be crazy, but they understand themselves better than most could possibly hope to. They appreciate life more than most are capable of. They have to fight for everything and nothing is given to them. Show nested quote +On January 27 2010 19:05 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:
The lack of tolerance for other opinions amongst the ones here preaching tolerance is incredible and hilarious. The difference is that the "opinions" being preached against are merely prejudice based off of insecurity and baseless hate. People don't get ostracized from society from preferring red over blue or thinking mustard is better than ketchup. Transsexuals get murdered for who they are so kindly, go fuck yourself.
who are you arguing against here? all the guy said was the kid would face trouble in the future. he didnt talk about why or if he should so why are you berating him for it...?
i think your personal bias regarding this topic is making you go on a bit of a crusade when the guy didnt say anything in that regards
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what the fuck is wrong with the peoples? the world is getting scary O_O
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On January 27 2010 19:23 Ricjames wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Well there are a lot smaller things in history that people were picked on/even killed because of. This shit is gross and i reprobate that. If someone feels offended, then i guess it is true. Racism is a lot bigger issue than this and there are less people racist than thinking this is not right...
+ Show Spoiler +Indeed it's gross. Let's start a thread on TL where we all members have post a picture of themselves so we can determine if people appeal enough to us, or if we should smash these imbeciles with the ban hammer. Let's ban all fat people aswell while were at it.. If someone feels offended, I guess it true. Especially since racism is a bigger issue.
Just because something is worse, it doesnt make the bad thing good.
Edit: Added a lost word 
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On January 27 2010 19:12 Hanners wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2010 19:05 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:
The lack of tolerance for other opinions amongst the ones here preaching tolerance is incredible and hilarious. The difference is that the "opinions" being preached against are merely prejudice based off of insecurity and baseless hate. People don't get ostracized from society from preferring red over blue or thinking mustard is better than ketchup. Transsexuals get murdered for who they are so kindly, go fuck yourself.
You say they get shit for who they are - wrong. They get shit for changing how they were born.
I just think people are going way too far with this kinda attitude of messing around with nature.
On January 27 2010 19:47 Robinsa wrote:
Indeed it's gross. Let's start a thread on TL where we all members have post a picture of themselves so we can determine if people appeal enough to us, or if we should smash these imbeciles with the ban hammer. Let's ban all fat people aswell while were at it.. If someone feels offended, I guess it true. Especially since racism is a bigger issue.
According to the advocates of transgender we shouldn't ban them, but let them have surgery.
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On January 27 2010 19:42 JohnColtrane wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2010 19:12 Hanners wrote:On January 27 2010 18:37 JohnColtrane wrote:On January 27 2010 17:22 Hanners wrote:On January 27 2010 17:06 Suc wrote:On January 27 2010 16:28 Hanners wrote:+ Show Spoiler +You know what?
Fuck all y'all.
Bunch of haters.
Those of you "worried about the kid" should consider why. Maybe because your hateful views are similar to most people's who are willing to be just as, if not more, vocal/active about it?
The problem is not with these people, their conditions, or their choices. If no one else in the world existed and it was just that family, they would be relieved of a lot of their hardship. No. It sucks to be them because of people like 90% of the responders in this thread. Bunch of bigots who insist that their reality is the only one and considers any challenge to what they know to be "true" (how fucking pretentious is that?) to be a threat and instead of looking within themselves to truly question and understand *why* they find it disturbing, they prefer to sling mud at that perceived threat.
I'm going to let you fucks in on a secret: YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT.
You think you do and are so egotistical as to believe that you are "right" when in reality you don't have any first-hand knowledge or experience in most everything that you think you know. Your judgments are based on *nothing*.
Weak-ass cowards. Because an intelligent argument always begins with insulting the other party. I'm going to let you in on a secret: it doesn't. It doesn't matter whether you think that this kid should not be picked on at all or why it will be, what matters is that it is going to happen no matter what. Moreover, discrimination will probably occur during adulthood if others find out about said child's situation. If you want to argue your point properly and have people take you seriously, you should probably state it a bit more clearly minus the insults. Also, (just reading further down) I agree with with JohnColtrane, where are your statistics? "The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house" -Audre Lorde I will not bow down to a thread full of people who have been so disrespectful and plead for consideration. Oppressors are not deserving of my respect. I am not trying to have an intelligent argument (mostly because that is not possible on the interwebz and is a complete fallacy to try) You do realize that you are asking that these people validate their existence to you, right? Do you have *any* idea how degrading, humiliating, and insulting that is? Do you not see through your own words? Moreover, discrimination will probably occur during adulthood if others find out about said child's situation. Do you not see what is wrong with this? How does it not enrage you that someone is destined to be subjected to prejudice, discrimination, and hate because of who and what they are? Does it not occur to you that maybe a perspective shift is what is required? Try on some compassion. I'm sure if you were in his position, you wouldn't want to be subjected to the aforementioned horridness of society. In fact, I'm sure you'd prefer that it wasn't even an issue worthy of attention or note at all. Unfortunately, I do not have a statistics page set up for sales. I only go by what producers tell me. he isnt commenting on whether or not he thinks discrimination should occur or not, he is just saying it most likely will. i dont know, i see gender based on your physical status rather than what you believe yourself to be. of course, people can do whatever they want with their bodies but i cant say that i am personally thrilled about it ...and he, like many, will stand apathetically by while this person is subjected to this adversity. Your perspective is one based off of "I don't understand it so I do not validate it." There seems to be this idea that people go through this because it is fun and exciting or that they are sexual perverts. Shit's not true. Transition is one of the most unpleasant and painful things that a person can experience. You risk losing everything (family, friends, job, etc.). It is a choice. But for many the choice is either to live or to kill themselves. Unfortunately, fully half or more choose the latter option. The American Medical Association recognizes transsexualism as a legitimate condition. The solution acknowledged is transition, therapy, hormones, and surgery. Regardless, most insurance companies still refuse to cover these treatments. Therapists and doctors require transitioners to live at least one (often *two*) year(s) in the role of the gender they are transitioning to regardless of their "passability" before surgery is authorized. This is a process put in place to ensure that the person transitioning can withstand the hate, discrimination, and prejudices of society. Many suicides, suicide attempts, assaults and murders occur during this time period. If you make it past all that and if you manage to save up enough money (anywhere from $15k-$100k depending on how sloppy of a job you are willing to subject your body to) on your own either through sex work or, funnily enough, the IT industry (because most businesses discriminate), then you are given the letters of reference to go through with it. You are then subjected to several months (years even) of recovery. After all this shit, you are still expected to disclose your history and status to whom it may concern and subject yourself to the same bigotry and hatefulness that you've been experiencing your whole life. People don't understand this. They'd rather write transsexuals off as freaks and perverts. That they're "sick in the head." That they are "confused." If only they knew how horrifying the experience is. Maybe they'd get a clue as to why "that tranny bitch is crazy!" They may be crazy, but they understand themselves better than most could possibly hope to. They appreciate life more than most are capable of. They have to fight for everything and nothing is given to them. On January 27 2010 19:05 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:
The lack of tolerance for other opinions amongst the ones here preaching tolerance is incredible and hilarious. The difference is that the "opinions" being preached against are merely prejudice based off of insecurity and baseless hate. People don't get ostracized from society from preferring red over blue or thinking mustard is better than ketchup. Transsexuals get murdered for who they are so kindly, go fuck yourself. who are you arguing against here? all the guy said was the kid would face trouble in the future. he didnt talk about why or if he should so why are you berating him for it...? i think your personal bias regarding this topic is making you go on a bit of a crusade when the guy didnt say anything in that regards
My "personal bias" and "crusade" is spreading awareness to people who obviously don't have the first clue and would prefer to belittle and dehumanize others that they don't, can't, and never will understand.
There's no argument here.
This is called "education" for anyone willing to read.
My "argument" isn't against any one person here. I'm not trying to convince any one person in particular.
I'm planting seeds.
Maybe someone will see these posts and consider it worth their time to learn more about what it is to be a transsexual and maybe their opinion will change toward something not so closed off. Maybe they will allow that these people's lives are just as valid as anyone else's and that they have done nothing to deserve the amount of adversity they have to endure every day. Maybe they'll refrain from participating in prejudicial "jokes" or public mockery. Hell, maybe even they'll be swayed so much as to disapprove of someone trashing a transsexual and may actually speak up about it. Because each person who at the very least accepts that transsexuals are people worth the same basic respect and courtesy as anyone else makes each of those transsexual's lives just that much more bearable.
Yes, I am personally biased. I know more than a couple of transsexual girls who have "finished" transition. They have gotten the surgeries and everything. They are terrified to leave their homes because they have been assaulted and raped after disclosing their history. This pisses me off to no end because they are kind and they are beautiful and they have endured so much just so that they can live the lives they should have had, but are still being denied.
The common negative attitude towards transsexuals perpetuates this. They deserve more.
You say they get shit for who they are - wrong. They get shit for changing how they were born.
I just think people are going way too far with this kinda attitude of messing around with nature.
I'm going to let the irony of the fact that you are able to communicate your defense of "nature" to people in every corner of the globe simultaneously to sink in. I suppose you believe that children with other birth defects shouldn't get medical treatment either? Like the child with the impacted skull or a twisted vertebrate. When was the last time you saw a dentist or got a vaccination? I suppose your computer is made of wood and is powered by fairy dust?
GTFO "natural."
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On January 27 2010 20:08 Hanners wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2010 19:42 JohnColtrane wrote:On January 27 2010 19:12 Hanners wrote:On January 27 2010 18:37 JohnColtrane wrote:On January 27 2010 17:22 Hanners wrote:On January 27 2010 17:06 Suc wrote:On January 27 2010 16:28 Hanners wrote:+ Show Spoiler +You know what?
Fuck all y'all.
Bunch of haters.
Those of you "worried about the kid" should consider why. Maybe because your hateful views are similar to most people's who are willing to be just as, if not more, vocal/active about it?
The problem is not with these people, their conditions, or their choices. If no one else in the world existed and it was just that family, they would be relieved of a lot of their hardship. No. It sucks to be them because of people like 90% of the responders in this thread. Bunch of bigots who insist that their reality is the only one and considers any challenge to what they know to be "true" (how fucking pretentious is that?) to be a threat and instead of looking within themselves to truly question and understand *why* they find it disturbing, they prefer to sling mud at that perceived threat.
I'm going to let you fucks in on a secret: YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT.
You think you do and are so egotistical as to believe that you are "right" when in reality you don't have any first-hand knowledge or experience in most everything that you think you know. Your judgments are based on *nothing*.
Weak-ass cowards. Because an intelligent argument always begins with insulting the other party. I'm going to let you in on a secret: it doesn't. It doesn't matter whether you think that this kid should not be picked on at all or why it will be, what matters is that it is going to happen no matter what. Moreover, discrimination will probably occur during adulthood if others find out about said child's situation. If you want to argue your point properly and have people take you seriously, you should probably state it a bit more clearly minus the insults. Also, (just reading further down) I agree with with JohnColtrane, where are your statistics? "The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house" -Audre Lorde I will not bow down to a thread full of people who have been so disrespectful and plead for consideration. Oppressors are not deserving of my respect. I am not trying to have an intelligent argument (mostly because that is not possible on the interwebz and is a complete fallacy to try) You do realize that you are asking that these people validate their existence to you, right? Do you have *any* idea how degrading, humiliating, and insulting that is? Do you not see through your own words? Moreover, discrimination will probably occur during adulthood if others find out about said child's situation. Do you not see what is wrong with this? How does it not enrage you that someone is destined to be subjected to prejudice, discrimination, and hate because of who and what they are? Does it not occur to you that maybe a perspective shift is what is required? Try on some compassion. I'm sure if you were in his position, you wouldn't want to be subjected to the aforementioned horridness of society. In fact, I'm sure you'd prefer that it wasn't even an issue worthy of attention or note at all. Unfortunately, I do not have a statistics page set up for sales. I only go by what producers tell me. he isnt commenting on whether or not he thinks discrimination should occur or not, he is just saying it most likely will. i dont know, i see gender based on your physical status rather than what you believe yourself to be. of course, people can do whatever they want with their bodies but i cant say that i am personally thrilled about it ...and he, like many, will stand apathetically by while this person is subjected to this adversity. Your perspective is one based off of "I don't understand it so I do not validate it." There seems to be this idea that people go through this because it is fun and exciting or that they are sexual perverts. Shit's not true. Transition is one of the most unpleasant and painful things that a person can experience. You risk losing everything (family, friends, job, etc.). It is a choice. But for many the choice is either to live or to kill themselves. Unfortunately, fully half or more choose the latter option. The American Medical Association recognizes transsexualism as a legitimate condition. The solution acknowledged is transition, therapy, hormones, and surgery. Regardless, most insurance companies still refuse to cover these treatments. Therapists and doctors require transitioners to live at least one (often *two*) year(s) in the role of the gender they are transitioning to regardless of their "passability" before surgery is authorized. This is a process put in place to ensure that the person transitioning can withstand the hate, discrimination, and prejudices of society. Many suicides, suicide attempts, assaults and murders occur during this time period. If you make it past all that and if you manage to save up enough money (anywhere from $15k-$100k depending on how sloppy of a job you are willing to subject your body to) on your own either through sex work or, funnily enough, the IT industry (because most businesses discriminate), then you are given the letters of reference to go through with it. You are then subjected to several months (years even) of recovery. After all this shit, you are still expected to disclose your history and status to whom it may concern and subject yourself to the same bigotry and hatefulness that you've been experiencing your whole life. People don't understand this. They'd rather write transsexuals off as freaks and perverts. That they're "sick in the head." That they are "confused." If only they knew how horrifying the experience is. Maybe they'd get a clue as to why "that tranny bitch is crazy!" They may be crazy, but they understand themselves better than most could possibly hope to. They appreciate life more than most are capable of. They have to fight for everything and nothing is given to them. On January 27 2010 19:05 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:
The lack of tolerance for other opinions amongst the ones here preaching tolerance is incredible and hilarious. The difference is that the "opinions" being preached against are merely prejudice based off of insecurity and baseless hate. People don't get ostracized from society from preferring red over blue or thinking mustard is better than ketchup. Transsexuals get murdered for who they are so kindly, go fuck yourself. who are you arguing against here? all the guy said was the kid would face trouble in the future. he didnt talk about why or if he should so why are you berating him for it...? i think your personal bias regarding this topic is making you go on a bit of a crusade when the guy didnt say anything in that regards My "personal bias" and "crusade" is spreading awareness to people who obviously don't have the first clue and would prefer to belittle and dehumanize others that they don't, can't, and never will understand. There's no argument here. This is called "education" for anyone willing to read. My "argument" isn't against any one person here. I'm not trying to convince any one person in particular. I'm planting seeds. Maybe someone will see these posts and consider it worth their time to learn more about what it is to be a transsexual and maybe their opinion will change toward something not so closed off. Maybe they will allow that these people's lives are just as valid as anyone else's and that they have done nothing to deserve the amount of adversity they have to endure every day. Maybe they'll refrain from participating in prejudicial "jokes" or public mockery. Hell, maybe even they'll be swayed so much as to disapprove of someone trashing a transsexual and may actually speak up about it. Because each person who at the very least accepts that transsexuals are people worth the same basic respect and courtesy as anyone else makes each of those transsexual's lives just that much more bearable. Yes, I am personally biased. I know more than a couple of transsexual girls who have "finished" transition. They have gotten the surgeries and everything. They are terrified to leave their homes because they have been assaulted and raped after disclosing their history. This pisses me off to no end because they are kind and they are beautiful and they have endured so much just so that they can live the lives they should have had, but are still being denied. The common negative attitude towards transsexuals perpetuates this. They deserve more. Show nested quote +You say they get shit for who they are - wrong. They get shit for changing how they were born.
I just think people are going way too far with this kinda attitude of messing around with nature.
I'm going to let the irony of the fact that you are able to communicate your defense of "nature" to people in every corner of the globe simultaneously to sink in. I suppose you believe that children with other birth defects shouldn't get medical treatment either? Like the child with the impacted skull or a twisted vertebrate. When was the last time you saw a dentist or got a vaccination? I suppose your computer is made of wood and is powered by fairy dust? GTFO "natural."
Dude, are you a tranny?
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what a mess, both this thread - and the op IRL content
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On January 27 2010 20:40 lOvOlUNiMEDiA wrote:
Dude, are you a tranny?
Just another girl and I've dated a few transsexuals and genderqueers. You take the time to get to really know one and they tend to amaze you with how courageous and amazing they are.
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this is weird, if he could be pregnant it means he still had menstruations. and since he is a man now i guess he has no vagina anymore, how will the baby go out? o_o
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On January 27 2010 21:05 endy wrote:
this is weird, if he could be pregnant it means he still had menstruations. and since he is a man now i guess he has no vagina anymore, how will the baby go out? o_o
it comes out of that little hole your piss goes out of
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On January 27 2010 21:05 endy wrote:
this is weird, if he could be pregnant it means he still had menstruations. and since he is a man now i guess he has no vagina anymore, how will the baby go out? o_o
On January 27 2010 21:15 JohnColtrane wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2010 21:05 endy wrote:
this is weird, if he could be pregnant it means he still had menstruations. and since he is a man now i guess he has no vagina anymore, how will the baby go out? o_o it comes out of that little hole your piss goes out of
Or you could, you know, read.
However, he could not afford the gender surgery, so still has female organs.
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Or you could, you know, read. Show nested quote + However, he could not afford the gender surgery, so still has female organs.
Then why saying he is a man? T_T
Having a beard an small breast doesn't make you a man especially if you still have female organs...
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On January 27 2010 21:32 endy wrote:Show nested quote +Or you could, you know, read. However, he could not afford the gender surgery, so still has female organs. Then why saying he is a man? T_T Having a beard an small breast doesn't make you a man especially if you still have female organs...
What makes you a man, endy?
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On January 27 2010 21:32 endy wrote:Show nested quote +Or you could, you know, read. However, he could not afford the gender surgery, so still has female organs. Then why saying he is a man? T_T Having a beard an small breast doesn't make you a man especially if you still have female organs...
From my experiance that usually makes you a librarian!
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This sorta shit better not be covered by health insurance.
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On January 27 2010 21:38 FieryBalrog wrote:
This sorta shit better not be covered by health insurance.
Indeed, the nerve of some people. I mean honestly, having a baby!?
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This shit is damn unnatural and scares me what will yet to come from human kind. But this thread is also very weird O O
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On January 27 2010 21:38 FieryBalrog wrote:
This sorta shit better not be covered by health insurance.
Yeah, because denying people necessary health care is cool.
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EPT
