Set 1: Iris > Flash Proxy Facts! Set 2: Iris < Flash 5base > 2base Set 3: Iris < Flash After what appeared to be Iris taking a solid lead after a proxy rax, flash comes back after pushing for 20 minutes. Recommended game. Great play from both players, but demonstrates why flash is so good. Set 4: Iris < Flash Flash wins 3-1!!!
Kind of what we all expected... three cheeses proxies from Iris, and even though it worked once, he couldn't stop flash's superior micro and macro and drop ship play and builds... Flash wins and also emerges the better play - by far. Iris was pretty much outclassed in these matches. GGs
Well. Both players are really good (as to how far they have gotten). but who is better? this is where we find out. Flash is 70% TvT win rate. so he is pretty (godd*m) good. Iris on the other hand is only 57%. These stats are pretty clear... in fact they are very clear. Flash is definitely the favorite here. The only thing I can see going for Iris is the fact that Flash hasnt played a TvT live in over 2 months. However, that just means hes been practicing all this time (hopefully) for this match. (a very safe liquid bet) However Iris is no weakling, and didnt get here by accident and has Also probably been practicing. (another safe liquid bet)
I predict Flash to win the series, however i could easily see Iris taking one or even two games off of him. Lets hope for some cheese and good games shall we.
Iris is 21-12 since May, but more than that, he eliminated EffOrt and Bisu from GOM and MSL. Respectively—and there’s not much room for debate on this—those two are some of the strongest ZvT and PvT players in the world. And the craziest part is that Iris is best-known for his TvT.
On August 16 2009 16:59 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: Iris is 21-12 since May, but more than that, he eliminated EffOrt and Bisu from GOM and MSL. Respectively—and there’s not much room for debate on this—those two are some of the strongest ZvT and PvT players in the world. And the craziest part is that Iris is best-known for his TvT.
This is a very interesting point, to which I have prepared a rebuttal:
On August 16 2009 16:59 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: Iris is 21-12 since May, but more than that, he eliminated EffOrt and Bisu from GOM and MSL. Respectively—and there’s not much room for debate on this—those two are some of the strongest ZvT and PvT players in the world. And the craziest part is that Iris is best-known for his TvT.
I am aware of that, and i also understand that iris's road to the finals was undeniably harder than flash's, but flash is still supposed to be a TvT wizard, even though Iris is also supposed to be really good . i see your point.
however i just want to show the fact that flash is 10 out of 10 for his last TvT matches.
which can kind of just be ignored because, as i said, the most recent was 2 months ago.
@motbob: Lolthx.
@orbifold: Lol nice. finger.... BOOOOOOOOOOM!
im just going to do that instead of quoting people is that chill with everyone?
On August 16 2009 16:59 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: Iris is 21-12 since May, but more than that, he eliminated EffOrt and Bisu from GOM and MSL. Respectively—and there’s not much room for debate on this—those two are some of the strongest ZvT and PvT players in the world. And the craziest part is that Iris is best-known for his TvT.
True, Iris is excellent TvT player, second only to Flash, question is, can his brutal offense overcome Flash's precise unbreakable defense? Only games will gives us ansver.
On August 16 2009 16:59 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: Iris is 21-12 since May, but more than that, he eliminated EffOrt and Bisu from GOM and MSL. Respectively—and there’s not much room for debate on this—those two are some of the strongest ZvT and PvT players in the world. And the craziest part is that Iris is best-known for his TvT.
Interesting edit on the old phrase. Just over two years and it seems like we've come full circle.
EDIT: Wow was I the first person to get where this came from?
On August 16 2009 17:06 TheNessman wrote: getting 4 replys in a row means you posted something REALLY contriversial amirite.
lol @ plexa.
Not really. He's just being really clever.
Old PR from his Daum OSL run:
Iris is 15-3 since May, but more than that, he eliminated Savior and Stork from the OSL. Respectively—and there’s not much room for debate on this—those two are the strongest ZvT and PvT players in the world. And the craziest part is that Iris is best-known for his TvT.
also I will be streaming for those who can't get their gom to work for whatever reason
THANK YOU VERY MUCH
On August 16 2009 17:13 motbob wrote: Look, all Flash has to do is get way behind in bases and units and then channel his play against FBH. It's a foolproof strategy.
lol 100% all the time. thats probably why no one plays TvT against him anymore... he learned the ultimate strategy that simply cannot be beaten.
People seem to be heavily favoring Iris here and I dunno why. Iris is definitely playing very very well right now, but FlaSh's TvT hasn't faltered. If anything, it's been constantly getting better and better for the last long while. FlaSh is a strong favorite here in my opinion, but I'm sure it's gonna be an epic series.
On August 16 2009 17:16 n wrote: I don't normally stay up to watch SC so late, but GOM takes a long time to put up the VODS :X What should I do?
Do what I should do (even though I don't):
Take a long journey within yourself to find the dedication that it takes to stay up and watch. Then, once you've found that dedication, use it to go find a girlfriend instead.
If you guys look at forgg's recent TvT its pretty clear that Flash and Forgg have been practicing alot of tvt, Iris however has had to practice TvP to beat bisu and TvZ to beat effort and face kwanro, imo iris would be practicing more for msl rather than gom
On August 16 2009 17:15 SilverskY wrote: People seem to be heavily favoring Iris here and I dunno why. Iris is definitely playing very very well right now, but FlaSh's TvT hasn't faltered. If anything, it's been constantly getting better and better for the last long while. FlaSh is a strong favorite here in my opinion, but I'm sure it's gonna be an epic series.
It's only hope. It's like with NaDa's recent games (not counting most Heritage games w/o Savior) - you KNOW that he will lose but still hope that he will win and you are fooling yourself.
Rooting for Iris despite being Flash fan. It would be just epic if he could take both GOM and MSL this season. Actually, this might even give him 1st place in August Power Rank!
Flash is gonna 3-0. The finals will be epic rape and not close at all. Iris will win neither GOM nor MSL.
as much as I am a dedicated flash & KTF fan, I hope its not gonna be a onesided rape where flash rapes the shit out of him (also I hope for games a little shorter then vs FBH ;<)
k stream with counting station although i dunno why video doesnt work at times http://live.gomtv.com/util/popupAx.gom ok you have to d/l some activex thing then it works
Flashes management style favors him just because of how TvT goes. But still, I wanna see Berzerker come out with some innovative TvT. I never under-estimate the depth of Starcraft, maybe he will do something original. :D
do you guys realize we fucking stay up till 3am in the morning to watch 2 boys playing a video game that is 15 years old, being shown like a giant concert, and a huge crowd of people admiring it, in some far off country we will never see in person. that is what we are doing people. haha crazy
On August 16 2009 18:15 Fredflintstone wrote: do you guys realize we fucking stay up till 3am in the morning to watch 2 boys playing a video game that is 15 years old, being shown like a giant concert, and a huge crowd of people admiring it, in some far off country we will never see in person. that is what we are doing people. haha crazy
On August 16 2009 18:15 Fredflintstone wrote: do you guys realize we fucking stay up till 3am in the morning to watch 2 boys playing a video game that is 15 years old, being shown like a giant concert, and a huge crowd of people admiring it, in some far off country we will never see in person. that is what we are doing people. haha crazy
On August 16 2009 18:15 Fredflintstone wrote: do you guys realize we fucking stay up till 3am in the morning to watch 2 boys playing a video game that is 15 years old, being shown like a giant concert, and a huge crowd of people admiring it, in some far off country we will never see in person. that is what we are doing people. haha crazy
Some people would do that shit for their favorite sport. This is our sport.
On August 16 2009 18:15 Fredflintstone wrote: do you guys realize we fucking stay up till 3am in the morning to watch 2 boys playing a video game that is 15 years old, being shown like a giant concert, and a huge crowd of people admiring it, in some far off country we will never see in person. that is what we are doing people. haha crazy
Iris chases away the scv which saw the proxy fact and then added a second factory there. FlaSh doesn't know about the second. Vultures harassing FlaSh who cancels his defensive bunker at his nat.
On August 16 2009 18:00 GTR wrote: k stream with counting station although i dunno why video doesnt work at times http://live.gomtv.com/util/popupAx.gom ok you have to d/l some activex thing then it works
quoting because this works! just stop the stream it tries to run and try and sync this with your english stream
FlaSh pushes to the fact with rines hoping to hit it early but doesn't expect Iris to have placed a second fact there. Takes so hefty losses to excellent micro by Iris who gets goliaths out and pushes into FlaSh's natural area.
Iris getting stargate and FlaSh counter attacking. Iris scouts the counter attack and then attacks himself while FlaSh repairs the bunker to buy time. Both players hit each others main but FlaSh loses his goliaths to scvs while Iris doesn't.
- Hide Spoiler - none yet.... and you know, i dont think i am going to post predictions.... whenever i am reading a thread of something that happened already, i get tempted into to checking who won without watching the VODS or something. If you really want to know, visit either of their tlpd, or watch the last thirty seconds of a VOD.
That's unprofessional from OP creator, I want to have results in first post ASAP :\
FlaSh went 1 factory attack vs 2 factory and suicided a load of units. Then went 2 factory vs 3 factory and suicided a load more. Iris fucked him up with sick micro and a ballsy build.
On August 16 2009 18:24 Kwark wrote: FlaSh went 1 factory attack vs 2 factory and suicided a load of units. Then went 2 factory vs 3 factory and suicided a load more. Iris fucked him up with sick micro and a ballsy build.
No flash went 2 fac vs 2 fac but decided to counter and get addon instead of just defending his main which was very stupid
Counter wouldn't have been THAT bad if Flash had microed his Goliaths AT ALL. Flash was already down on Goliaths and then just gave away a bunch more in exchange for just SCVs - this also turned it from 2 Fac vs 2 Fac to 2 Fac vs 3 Fac since Iris' main base Factory was no longer blocked by the counter. All in all the counter was really poorly done.
Can a mod or OP edit the results in first post? I really do not have time to watch VOD's and search for results, I demend the score being updated in LR thread on 1st page !
On August 16 2009 18:30 crucifix wrote: Can a mod or OP edit the results in first post? I really do not have time to watch VOD's and search for results, I demend the score being updated in LR thread on 1st page !
oh god, is OP not updating the results? what ever happened to the etiquette that the OP is expected to do the bare minimum (update results). kids these days..
On August 16 2009 18:33 cUrsOr wrote: It's like they want Flash to win. Probably to live up to all the hype he had when he started. Also why im hoping for Iris :D
nah next commercial break would probably be all iris.
Everyone I asked to watch this series with me said that it was going to be too long and boring for them to watch. But every TvT I've watched with Iris has been exciting thus far. You can't go wrong!
Agh I forgot to fast forward the stream with Gomtv...
I hate when I don't fast forward it and people talk about stuff that did not happen yet on my stream! I start to think everyone on teamliquid is a psychic or something. Until I hit "c".
On August 16 2009 18:41 TheNessman wrote: everyone who was complaining in this thread about me not updating the OP....
i dont understand you guys... because you are awake and posting on the internet AS THE MATCH IS GOING ON. WHY DO YOU NEED THE SPOILS1?!?
however, i did what the people complaining wanted me to do. SORRY ABOUT THAT OK. lololol wut.
When someone can't watch the game all they have is the LR thread to read play-by-play or the summarised results. Don't bother making an OP if you're not going to update it imo.
Hey i just got here, trying to watch using http://tv.zeroboy.net/ but i just cant see anything (black screen nothing happens).. how can i fix this plz? ty x)
On August 16 2009 18:41 TheNessman wrote: everyone who was complaining in this thread about me not updating the OP....
i dont understand you guys... because you are awake and posting on the internet AS THE MATCH IS GOING ON. WHY DO YOU NEED THE SPOILS1?!?
however, i did what the people complaining wanted me to do. SORRY ABOUT THAT OK. lololol wut.
do not make OPs for live report threads if you are not willing/around to update the results
this is the standard here
yes i understand that, but did you read what was in the spoil before i changed it? not all traditions are good. i know (KNOW) that i am tempted into reading results before watching VODS or before being ready. i guess i am just alone.
I just formatted recently but i got the new flash plugins and whatnot so basically everything on the internet is working fine for me but this isnt. What plugin am i missing?
On August 16 2009 18:41 TheNessman wrote: everyone who was complaining in this thread about me not updating the OP....
i dont understand you guys... because you are awake and posting on the internet AS THE MATCH IS GOING ON. WHY DO YOU NEED THE SPOILS1?!?
however, i did what the people complaining wanted me to do. SORRY ABOUT THAT OK. lololol wut.
do not make OPs for live report threads if you are not willing/around to update the results
this is the standard here
yes i understand that, but did you read what was in the spoil before i changed it? not all traditions are good. i know (KNOW) that i am tempted into reading results before watching VODS or before being ready. i guess i am just alone.
whatever though rite. i caved.
Simple solution: Don't make any more LR threads - let other people do it.
1) Spanking your monkey is euphemism for male masturbation. fapfapfap. 2) Milking a monkey.... think of what milking a bull would entail. And 3) Superdanielman and Tasteless had a LONG conversation about the merits of drinking monkey milk as opposed to cow milk in one of their casts a while back.
On August 16 2009 18:44 ErOs_LeO wrote: Hey i just got here, trying to watch using http://tv.zeroboy.net/ but i just cant see anything (black screen nothing happens).. how can i fix this plz? ty x)
try refreshing. and have you tried the other links?
I just formatted recently but i got the new flash plugins and whatnot so basically everything on the internet is working fine for me but this isnt. What plugin am i missing?
I just formatted recently but i got the new flash plugins and whatnot so basically everything on the internet is working fine for me but this isnt. What plugin am i missing?
On August 16 2009 18:41 TheNessman wrote: everyone who was complaining in this thread about me not updating the OP....
i dont understand you guys... because you are awake and posting on the internet AS THE MATCH IS GOING ON. WHY DO YOU NEED THE SPOILS1?!?
however, i did what the people complaining wanted me to do. SORRY ABOUT THAT OK. lololol wut.
do not make OPs for live report threads if you are not willing/around to update the results
this is the standard here
yes i understand that, but did you read what was in the spoil before i changed it? not all traditions are good. i know (KNOW) that i am tempted into reading results before watching VODS or before being ready. i guess i am just alone.
whatever though rite. i caved.
thats how this stuff works. if you don't like it, don't make further threads for live report
On August 16 2009 18:44 ErOs_LeO wrote: Hey i just got here, trying to watch using http://tv.zeroboy.net/ but i just cant see anything (black screen nothing happens).. how can i fix this plz? ty x)
try refreshing. and have you tried the other links?
yea the two first gomtv links dont work cuz im on a public cpu, though http://tv.zeroboy.net/'s audio works fine but no image, just black screen right after the "Tuning in Orange TV Please Wait"
On August 16 2009 18:44 ErOs_LeO wrote: Hey i just got here, trying to watch using http://tv.zeroboy.net/ but i just cant see anything (black screen nothing happens).. how can i fix this plz? ty x)
try refreshing. and have you tried the other links?
yea the two first gomtv links dont work cuz im on a public cpu, though http://tv.zeroboy.net/'s audio works fine but no image, just black screen right after the "Tuning in Orange TV Please Wait"
:\ people seem to be having problems on public/school networks
On August 16 2009 18:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: so we have no one actually live reporting or what
usually when such a high % of people have streams live reporting doesn't happen unless someone specifically requests it... why, do you not have a stream?
1) Spanking your monkey is euphemism for male masturbation. fapfapfap. 2) Milking a monkey.... think of what milking a bull would entail. And 3) Superdanielman and Tasteless had a LONG conversation about the merits of drinking monkey milk as opposed to cow milk in one of their casts a while back.
It's just reason three... Not supposed to be a sexual joke, same thing with the "penetrating" comments from SuperDanielMan.
On August 16 2009 18:56 SimonB wrote: Does it seem like Flash's mechanics are rusty to anybody else? Poor micro and he seems consistently above 500 minerals.
On August 16 2009 18:56 SimonB wrote: Does it seem like Flash's mechanics are rusty to anybody else? Poor micro and he seems consistently above 500 minerals.
I dont think your mins would be under 5000 if you were on 5 base, they were better than iris's that game thats for sure
On August 16 2009 18:56 SimonB wrote: Does it seem like Flash's mechanics are rusty to anybody else? Poor micro and he seems consistently above 500 minerals.
no, you can't help being above 500 minerals when you have 4 bases.
On August 16 2009 18:57 Kazius wrote: Well, that was a classic Flash game. Dull and inevitable terran onslaught. Is it just me or is Flash the Terran Best?
If you thought that was just dull macro from Flash you need to have your eyes examined.
On August 16 2009 18:56 SimonB wrote: Does it seem like Flash's mechanics are rusty to anybody else? Poor micro and he seems consistently above 500 minerals.
No. He was almost consistent at ~130 supply even when constantly losing units in the push, which means his macro wasn't failing in the slightest.
Basically that game Iris went for a quick 4 Factories and a lot of Vultures, but Flash never gave him a chance to run by. Then, Iris got a couple of Tanks and tried to establish a forward position but got run over, resulting in Flash being able to siege up outside Iris' natural and get a lot of SCV kills and set Iris' economy back a lot.
From there, Flash had the edge and Flash basically never loses games he has the edge in, so he did the usual and took more bases, used his earlier Dropships to break any remaining contain Iris was able to reestablish, and just rolled Iris over with a drop on the main that was about to be combined with a push.
One nice trick Flash had was, knowing that Iris mined out his back ramp minerals, he dropped two Vultures in Iris' main causing Iris to move his Tanks that were defending the two ramps to go attack those Vultures, but then sent 4 Vultures around the back ramp into the natural and scored a lot of SCV kills this way.
All in all, the first two games have been exactly what we expected - Iris finds a way to win with a brilliant aggressive build in game 1, and Flash solidly defends early aggression and just flat out steamrolls Iris in game 2.
On August 16 2009 18:56 SimonB wrote: Does it seem like Flash's mechanics are rusty to anybody else? Poor micro and he seems consistently above 500 minerals.
I dont think your mins would be under 5000 if you were on 5 base, they were better than iris's that game thats for sure
No, but I don't practice 12 hours a day, or am particularly known for my macro, and Flash was on 3 base for most of that.
On August 16 2009 18:56 SimonB wrote: Does it seem like Flash's mechanics are rusty to anybody else? Poor micro and he seems consistently above 500 minerals.
I dont think your mins would be under 5000 if you were on 5 base, they were better than iris's that game thats for sure
No, but I don't practice 12 hours a day, or am particularly known for my macro, and Flash was on 3 base for most of that.
lolwut?
His minerals only went above 1000 after he hit 5 bases. And it was usually just in the high hundreds.
On August 16 2009 18:56 SimonB wrote: Does it seem like Flash's mechanics are rusty to anybody else? Poor micro and he seems consistently above 500 minerals.
I dont think your mins would be under 5000 if you were on 5 base, they were better than iris's that game thats for sure
No, but I don't practice 12 hours a day, or am particularly known for my macro, and Flash was on 3 base for most of that.
On August 16 2009 18:56 SimonB wrote: Does it seem like Flash's mechanics are rusty to anybody else? Poor micro and he seems consistently above 500 minerals.
I dont think your mins would be under 5000 if you were on 5 base, they were better than iris's that game thats for sure
No, but I don't practice 12 hours a day, or am particularly known for my macro, and Flash was on 3 base for most of that.
Well his minerals would get up and then come right back down in a huge wave so that implies that he was likely making a big wave of units out of his Factories at that time. The controlled macro nature of TvT means that if you're on a lot of Factories, your money will natural go up very high in each production cycle. The key is to see how low it goes each time it goes down again - Flash seemed to do just fine with that.
On August 16 2009 18:56 SimonB wrote: Does it seem like Flash's mechanics are rusty to anybody else? Poor micro and he seems consistently above 500 minerals.
I dont think your mins would be under 5000 if you were on 5 base, they were better than iris's that game thats for sure
No, but I don't practice 12 hours a day, or am particularly known for my macro, and Flash was on 3 base for most of that.
i don't think scaramanga was talking about you literally.
On August 16 2009 18:56 SimonB wrote: Does it seem like Flash's mechanics are rusty to anybody else? Poor micro and he seems consistently above 500 minerals.
I dont think your mins would be under 5000 if you were on 5 base, they were better than iris's that game thats for sure
No, but I don't practice 12 hours a day, or am particularly known for my macro, and Flash was on 3 base for most of that.
lolwut?
His minerals only went above 1000 after he hit 5 bases. And it was usually just in the high hundreds.
its practically impossible to keep low min couunt in TvT on that many bases
On August 16 2009 19:00 motbob wrote: Sigh. This argument about macro is dumb anyway since you need to judge TvT macro by gas, not mins.
Ironically Flash actually had a ton of gas and no minerals at one point, but this was right before his third was kicking in. All in all there were no problems with Flash's macro that game (as usual).
On August 16 2009 19:03 nebffa wrote: you probably never would have made that comment about flash's 'poor' macro if tasteless hadn't brought it up in the cast
...So... agreeing with Tasteless is a bad thing? I don't get it.
On August 16 2009 18:56 SimonB wrote: Does it seem like Flash's mechanics are rusty to anybody else? Poor micro and he seems consistently above 500 minerals.
I dont think your mins would be under 5000 if you were on 5 base, they were better than iris's that game thats for sure
No, but I don't practice 12 hours a day, or am particularly known for my macro, and Flash was on 3 base for most of that.
3 Base means at least 6 fact, 3 with addons, 3 without. That means per "cycle" you queue up 3 tanks and 3 vultures AT LEAST, which is 675 minerals. If you queue up 2 vults instead, then you have 900 mins per cycle. Anything less than 900 mins with 3 bases = not a cause for concern.
That number goes up with the number of facts & bases.
lol @ criticizing Flash's macro. His unit count was kept at 130 all the time even when he was crushing Iris units over and over again. Then again, TvT relies a lot on gas for mass tank, therefore a decent excess on minerals (<1000 on 3+ bases) doesn't mean one's macro is sloppy.
No early scvs sent out by anyone so no rax rushing Depo down for both players, iris is gonna proxy his rax and flash is making his rax in his nat choke
Various early game shenanigans going on. Iris does much damage, and his wraiths will do a lot of damage since Flash has no tech. Flash is up an expo though...
On August 16 2009 18:57 Kazius wrote: Well, that was a classic Flash game. Dull and inevitable terran onslaught. Is it just me or is Flash the Terran Best?
If you thought that was just dull macro from Flash you need to have your eyes examined.
I happen to kinda like Best - Flash defended brilliantly, and he made a complex game look like a walk in the park. "Dull and inevitable" is Terran at their best. And you can hardly say his attacks are unorthodox.
Flash microes well and takes a few tanks out. Flash is ahead slightly in economy and with good control is pulling further ahead. He has caught up in tech and is expanding again.
Anyone else think it's strange that early game used to be where Flash was flawless, and now it's sort of sloppy and vise verse for his late game? His late game used to be so sloppy and now it's so refined.
Looks like Iris is going to lose this match btw . Hope he puts up more of a fight
On August 16 2009 19:20 Vasoline73 wrote: Anyone else think it's strange that early game used to be where Flash was flawless, and now it's sort of sloppy and vise verse for his late game? His late game used to be so sloppy and now it's so refined.
Looks like Iris is going to lose this match btw . Hope he puts up more of a fight
Flash was always known for his shakey early game. People commended his early game only because he had great star sense back in his prime (ie finding like every single proxy)
Flash has been ahead ever since he didn't die to Iris' early game. They were even at about 40 supply after the Goliaths started to come and Flash has been ahead ever since with an earlier expansion.
I don't get why SDM and Tasteless NEVER look at supply counts....
Flash is about 30 supply ahead due to his extra expansion and looks to be in a commanding position. Iris won't give up attacking 6 at the backdoor, he moves lots of tanks in and tries to push. Flash is defending well as always.
Iris tries to attack the 2 O'clock but FLash denies it! He uses 5 dropships to drop on the tanks and pushes in from the middle also. GREAT exchange for Flash he's pulling this one home. Now he's dopped on the ridge of Iris.
Flash's late game TvT is just INSANE. Even when Iris drops on Flash's high ground Tanks, he still takes additional hits from Flash's low ground Tanks. The planning is PERFECT everywhere.
Flash is just moving in now for the killing blow. The battlelines are drawn at the bottom middle. Flash knows he can sacrifice tanks and just build more.
Flash true to his reputation, he's a macro monster. Iris kept pushing left and right, throwing different types oh harrass and pressure, but Flash held each time, set up expos everywhere and grew grew grew until he was big enough to roll.
Has Flash played any games on Shades? I can't remember him playing any whereas Iris (and Skyhigh) have played a lot of TvTs there. Might be a strategical edge for CJ here, which Iris clearly needs to win. There's no way Iris wins a map-dividing slugfest (like a lot of Shades games end up being)....
Edit: Just checked TLPD - Flash has NEVER played a televised game on Shades.
On August 16 2009 19:33 SilverskY wrote: I have no clue how FlaSh won that game though. Seriously, he's seriously a Magician.
Well he had his natural much faster and although Iris did some damage, he didn't do enough. Flash was ahead the moment he got his natural up and rode the macro advantage to a win.
On August 16 2009 19:33 SilverskY wrote: I have no clue how FlaSh won that game though. Seriously, he's seriously a Magician.
He had 2 CCs to pump scvs, iris didn't do enough damage. Then Iris lost every single small skirmish mid map, and flash positioned his army very nicely and took 1 expo more than iris. Money surplus accumulated, iris got run over. Not that complicated.
I think Iris could have done a ton of damage when he had more Tanks than Flash, but he had a tiny timing window and I guess he just didn't have Siege.
Other than that, contrary to the commentary, Flash was never behind once he killed all of Iris' Vultures and had Goliaths ready for the Wraiths. He was basically even with Iris on tech (especially with the Starport going unused) and even at 40 supply and had a faster 2nd CC.
The biggest mistake Iris made was not utilising his tech. He sacrificed macro for tech, but didn't gain enough from it.
He decided to go 1Fact1Port but the port did nothing for him. If that initial attack was backed up by the units from an extra Factory he may have won straight away.
On August 16 2009 19:31 Scaramanga wrote: Flash lost 10 food to irirs 40 and iris GG's one more flash and your the champ, gogogo
YEAHHHHHHHHH
Also, sounds like nice games with average commentary so far as usual - but still can't wait to watch the VODs n_n Keep up the small amount of LRing there is (Don't LR on my behalf cos my internet is too slow to even constantly refresh so...).
On August 16 2009 19:33 SilverskY wrote: I have no clue how FlaSh won that game though. Seriously, he's seriously a Magician.
He had 2 CCs to pump scvs, iris didn't do enough damage. Then Iris lost every single small skirmish mid map, and flash positioned his army very nicely and took 1 expo more than iris. Money surplus accumulated, iris got run over. Not that complicated.
Yeah I mean just from the beginning impression of the game. When FlaSh lost all his vults, and his rines, and all those SCV's. And then the Wraith follow up. It looked to be a sure win for Iris.
On August 16 2009 19:33 SilverskY wrote: I have no clue how FlaSh won that game though. Seriously, he's seriously a Magician.
He had 2 CCs to pump scvs, iris didn't do enough damage. Then Iris lost every single small skirmish mid map, and flash positioned his army very nicely and took 1 expo more than iris. Money surplus accumulated, iris got run over. Not that complicated.
Yeah I mean just from the beginning impression of the game. When FlaSh lost all his vults, and his rines, and all those SCV's. And then the Wraith follow up. It looked to be a sure win for Iris.
Yeah it always looks worse than it is when you fast expand and your opponent goes heavy pressure. As long as you don't lose your natural CC and keep pumping SCVs (which Flash did), your opponent has to do a TON of damage to make up for the cost of the Starport, Wraiths, Cloak, AND late natural, because you just keep making 2X SCVs and money isn't really the issue at the time.
haha flash.... i thought his early greed was going to cost him like it usually does... i was surprised at how iris just gave away half the map for flash to macro out of given his early tank advantage.
On August 16 2009 19:36 Klive5ive wrote: The biggest mistake Iris made was not utilising his tech. He sacrificed macro for tech, but didn't gain enough from it.
He decided to go 1Fact1Port but the port did nothing for him. If that initial attack was backed up by the units from an extra Factory he may have won straight away.
If I pause the GOMPlayer, will it still be buffering? I mean like youtube, if your stream isn't good enough, you will have to pause the video for a while then watch it later. I don't mind watching the game a couple of minutes later seriously, rather than having hiccups every fucking minute.
On August 16 2009 19:33 SilverskY wrote: I have no clue how FlaSh won that game though. Seriously, he's seriously a Magician.
He had 2 CCs to pump scvs, iris didn't do enough damage. Then Iris lost every single small skirmish mid map, and flash positioned his army very nicely and took 1 expo more than iris. Money surplus accumulated, iris got run over. Not that complicated.
Yeah I mean just from the beginning impression of the game. When FlaSh lost all his vults, and his rines, and all those SCV's. And then the Wraith follow up. It looked to be a sure win for Iris.
Yeah it always looks worse than it is when you fast expand and your opponent goes heavy pressure. As long as you don't lose your natural CC and keep pumping SCVs (which Flash did), your opponent has to do a TON of damage to make up for the cost of the Starport, Wraiths, Cloak, AND late natural, because you just keep making 2X SCVs and money isn't really the issue at the time.
Yeah, true true. That game was seriously the epitome of what good econ does in a game.
On August 16 2009 19:39 nayumi wrote: If I pause the GOMPlayer, will it still be buffering? I mean like youtube, if your stream isn't good enough, you will have to pause the video for a while then watch it later. I don't mind watching the game a couple of minutes later seriously, rather than having hiccups every fucking minute.
if it's that bad, why not try the livestream? I suffer from the same issue so I just watch it from livestream
Iris not being aggressive with his early tanks ruined his chances. I mean he was only slightly behind after the early game, but short of proxy bbs or 5 rax on cliff, nobody will ever beat Flash TvT on Medusa. I really think he should've went more allin.
Flash hasn't used that seize map control -> double expand for a long time now but man I love watching that strategy. You can literally countdown to the moment when Iris's chance of victory drops to zero.
It's a huge shame not that many people are watching this. TvT is generally boring but not Flash.
On August 16 2009 19:38 jello24 wrote: haha flash.... i thought his early greed was going to cost him like it usually does... i was surprised at how iris just gave away half the map for flash to macro out of given his early tank advantage.
Iris came VERY close to being able to Siege Flash's temples, which would have been a lot more annoying to deal with. Once Flash kept that from happening, Iris no longer had any advantage whatsoever in any way, and the outcome was inevitable given that it's Flash playing TvT.
On August 16 2009 19:39 nayumi wrote: If I pause the GOMPlayer, will it still be buffering? I mean like youtube, if your stream isn't good enough, you will have to pause the video for a while then watch it later. I don't mind watching the game a couple of minutes later seriously, rather than having hiccups every fucking minute.
if it's that bad, why not try the livestream? I suffer from the same issue so I just watch it from livestream
I did, wasn't very smooth either =(
WTF that Cyon commercial is so wrong ... maybe i'm just a bit oversensitive.
On August 16 2009 19:40 lazz wrote: gosh the slippery slope in TvT is really really steep
Nah, usually it's the easiest MU to come back in. Flash is just good at getting a chokehold on the map.
Yeah, Flash both:
a) never loses TvTs where he has even the smallest advantage after like 5 minutes
b) frequently steals (and I mean STEALS) games that any other Terran would have lost, when he's way behind after 5-10 minutes (see Hwasin, Leta, FBH on Medusa)
Naturally, he has the best TvT record ever and is (in my opinion) clearly the most skilled TvT player ever.
On August 16 2009 19:40 lazz wrote: gosh the slippery slope in TvT is really really steep
Nah, usually it's the easiest MU to come back in. Flash is just good at getting a chokehold on the map.
you think so? the last 10 minutes of game 3 were iris pathetically trying to edge himself back in, but every encounter he lost more food than flash irregardless of him initiating the attack (which, theoretically, should be an advantage). flash's food count was just too high for him to come back..
On August 16 2009 19:40 lazz wrote: gosh the slippery slope in TvT is really really steep
Nah, usually it's the easiest MU to come back in. Flash is just good at getting a chokehold on the map.
you think so? the last 10 minutes of game 3 were iris pathetically trying to edge himself back in, but every encounter he lost more food than flash irregardless of him initiating the attack (which, theoretically, should be an advantage). flash's food count was just too high for him to come back..
On August 16 2009 19:40 lazz wrote: gosh the slippery slope in TvT is really really steep
Nah, usually it's the easiest MU to come back in. Flash is just good at getting a chokehold on the map.
you think so? the last 10 minutes of game 3 were iris pathetically trying to edge himself back in, but every encounter he lost more food than flash irregardless of him initiating the attack (which, theoretically, should be an advantage). flash's food count was just too high for him to come back..
Just as Jaedong has (until the last couple of months) been an exception to virtually all the ZvZ rules, Flash is similarly an exception to many TvT rules.
On August 16 2009 19:40 lazz wrote: gosh the slippery slope in TvT is really really steep
Nah, usually it's the easiest MU to come back in. Flash is just good at getting a chokehold on the map.
you think so? the last 10 minutes of game 3 were iris pathetically trying to edge himself back in, but every encounter he lost more food than flash irregardless of him initiating the attack (which, theoretically, should be an advantage). flash's food count was just too high for him to come back..
On August 16 2009 19:40 lazz wrote: gosh the slippery slope in TvT is really really steep
Nah, usually it's the easiest MU to come back in. Flash is just good at getting a chokehold on the map.
you think so? the last 10 minutes of game 3 were iris pathetically trying to edge himself back in, but every encounter he lost more food than flash irregardless of him initiating the attack (which, theoretically, should be an advantage). flash's food count was just too high for him to come back..
Iris didn't win any battles. A Terran looking to come back against a normal opponent could find a weak point in one of his enemy's expos, or in his army in the middle. In TvT this is normal because of dropship play. But Flash is abnormal and has no weakpoints lategame.
On August 16 2009 19:40 lazz wrote: gosh the slippery slope in TvT is really really steep
Nah, usually it's the easiest MU to come back in. Flash is just good at getting a chokehold on the map.
you think so? the last 10 minutes of game 3 were iris pathetically trying to edge himself back in, but every encounter he lost more food than flash irregardless of him initiating the attack (which, theoretically, should be an advantage). flash's food count was just too high for him to come back..
Just as Jaedong has (until the last couple of months) been an exception to virtually all the ZvZ rules, Flash is similarly an exception to many TvT rules.
Yeah but TvT is a macro-war... Sometimes u can recover more easy on a macro war.. zvz u lose 1 battle u lose the game lol
On August 16 2009 19:40 lazz wrote: gosh the slippery slope in TvT is really really steep
Nah, usually it's the easiest MU to come back in. Flash is just good at getting a chokehold on the map.
you think so? the last 10 minutes of game 3 were iris pathetically trying to edge himself back in, but every encounter he lost more food than flash irregardless of him initiating the attack (which, theoretically, should be an advantage). flash's food count was just too high for him to come back..
would despite make you happier?
<3 just kidding haha I just imagine angry grammar nazis everytime someone writes it :O
On August 16 2009 19:40 lazz wrote: gosh the slippery slope in TvT is really really steep
Nah, usually it's the easiest MU to come back in. Flash is just good at getting a chokehold on the map.
you think so? the last 10 minutes of game 3 were iris pathetically trying to edge himself back in, but every encounter he lost more food than flash irregardless of him initiating the attack (which, theoretically, should be an advantage). flash's food count was just too high for him to come back..
Just as Jaedong has (until the last couple of months) been an exception to virtually all the ZvZ rules, Flash is similarly an exception to many TvT rules.
Yeah but TvT is a macro-war... Sometimes u can recover more easy on a macro war.. zvz u lose 1 battle u lose the game lol
Yeah but just like you can't win that single battle in ZvZ if the other guy's micro is way better than yours, you can't come back in a macro war if the other guy's macro is better than yours and just makes the right decision at all times.
Arguments can be made for which is easier/harder, really depends on your point of view.
On August 16 2009 19:40 lazz wrote: gosh the slippery slope in TvT is really really steep
Nah, usually it's the easiest MU to come back in. Flash is just good at getting a chokehold on the map.
you think so? the last 10 minutes of game 3 were iris pathetically trying to edge himself back in, but every encounter he lost more food than flash irregardless of him initiating the attack (which, theoretically, should be an advantage). flash's food count was just too high for him to come back..
I think it's neat how the Top Players that represents their race (Jaedong, Flash, Bisu) has the best % in the their MU's. Jaedong's ZvZ, Flash's TvT, Bisu's PvP.
my stream goes slower than everybody elses' or something. I hit c for 4xspeed and hit z when it begins to lag, but after a while I find myself behind again. I have done so 3 times now.
On August 16 2009 19:40 lazz wrote: gosh the slippery slope in TvT is really really steep
Nah, usually it's the easiest MU to come back in. Flash is just good at getting a chokehold on the map.
you think so? the last 10 minutes of game 3 were iris pathetically trying to edge himself back in, but every encounter he lost more food than flash irregardless of him initiating the attack (which, theoretically, should be an advantage). flash's food count was just too high for him to come back..
would despite make you happier?
<3 just kidding haha I just imagine angry grammar nazis everytime someone writes it :O
yeah im ashamed that I use it without even noticing, oh well. that's what you get for growing up in the states!
On August 16 2009 19:40 lazz wrote: gosh the slippery slope in TvT is really really steep
Nah, usually it's the easiest MU to come back in. Flash is just good at getting a chokehold on the map.
you think so? the last 10 minutes of game 3 were iris pathetically trying to edge himself back in, but every encounter he lost more food than flash irregardless of him initiating the attack (which, theoretically, should be an advantage). flash's food count was just too high for him to come back..
By Flash standards, he's WAY ahead now. I'll be really surprised if Iris wins this, as he doesn't even have Dropships or anything else that could cause a quick swing.
4 dropships out for Flash but he's not expanded again. Iris has started his 4th. Iris tries to move out and add pressure, but Flash uses his 4 dropships to crush the attack.
The position looks good for Iris but in actuality Flash has interior lines and can easily shift his forces (along with additional dropships) to any weakpoints. I predict Flash rolling him over before he even needs to mass expand.
GUYS. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS!? WE WILL MOST VERY HIGH LIKELY GET A JAEDONG VS FLASH SPECIAL MATCH!
Season 1 vs Season 2 (Jaedong vs Bisu) And Jaedong won. So they might do the Winner of Special Match vs Season 3. Also, Bisu is forbidden to play at GOM matches anyway. AWAITING THIS.
On August 16 2009 20:06 RainmanMP wrote: EE YOUNG HO HWAITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fuck man, edit that post coz it's messing up the layout.
If you look at the big picture, Iris can be very happy about his overall performance this season (PL, MSL, Gom ...). I am glad he hasn't lost his touch, such a unique player. Congrats to Flash, he was impressive with his domination throughout the tournament. Well deserved.
On August 16 2009 20:07 sAw wrote: If you look at the big picture, Iris can be very happy about his overall performance this season (PL, MSL, Gom ...). I am glad he hasn't lost his touch, such a unique player. Congrats to Flash, he was impressive with his domination throughout the tournament. Well deserved.
IS it just me or GOMTV Final doesn't seem as emotional as OSL or MSL final?
Is it because Iris is too ez for Flash so it's not that big of a win? Or is it because GOMTV is not as big as OSL OR MSL?
And listening to tasteless and SuperDM I can't hear the crowd so I can't feel the excitement with the crowd so it sucks. It just seems too quiet of a Final for me.
You just can't hand Flash a lead at the start, no matter how slight. Iris didn't play very smart. Either go all in and kill Flash.. or sit back and try (even though it's hard) to out-macro Flash.
On August 16 2009 20:10 toopham wrote: IS it just me or GOMTV Final doesn't seem as emotional as OSL or MSL final?
Is it because Iris is too ez for Flash so it's not that big of a win? Or is it because GOMTV is not as big as OSL OR MSL?
And listening to tasteless and SuperDM I can't hear the crowd so I can't feel the excitement with the crowd so it sucks. It just seems too quiet of a Final for me.
On August 16 2009 20:10 toopham wrote: IS it just me or GOMTV Final doesn't seem as emotional as OSL or MSL final?
Is it because Iris is too ez for Flash so it's not that big of a win? Or is it because GOMTV is not as big as OSL OR MSL?
And listening to tasteless and SuperDM I can't hear the crowd so I can't feel the excitement with the crowd so it sucks. It just seems too quiet of a Final for me.
It's WAY smaller than MSL or OSL. But it has the most prize money and apparently in a limited sample size, has the format most conducive to an elite player winning seeing as how Jaedong, Bisu, and Flash have now won the first three.
On August 16 2009 20:10 toopham wrote: IS it just me or GOMTV Final doesn't seem as emotional as OSL or MSL final?
Is it because Iris is too ez for Flash so it's not that big of a win? Or is it because GOMTV is not as big as OSL OR MSL?
And listening to tasteless and SuperDM I can't hear the crowd so I can't feel the excitement with the crowd so it sucks. It just seems too quiet of a Final for me.
On August 16 2009 20:10 toopham wrote: IS it just me or GOMTV Final doesn't seem as emotional as OSL or MSL final?
Is it because Iris is too ez for Flash so it's not that big of a win? Or is it because GOMTV is not as big as OSL OR MSL?
And listening to tasteless and SuperDM I can't hear the crowd so I can't feel the excitement with the crowd so it sucks. It just seems too quiet of a Final for me.
It's WAY smaller than MSL or OSL. But it has the most prize money and apparently in a limited sample size, has the format most conducive to an elite player winning seeing as how Jaedong, Bisu, and Flash have now won the first three.
On August 16 2009 20:10 toopham wrote: IS it just me or GOMTV Final doesn't seem as emotional as OSL or MSL final?
Is it because Iris is too ez for Flash so it's not that big of a win? Or is it because GOMTV is not as big as OSL OR MSL?
And listening to tasteless and SuperDM I can't hear the crowd so I can't feel the excitement with the crowd so it sucks. It just seems too quiet of a Final for me.
MSL / OSL has prestige
GOM has $$$, but not the prestige
GOM has prestige, not as much as the OSL and MSL, but it does have significance.
On August 16 2009 20:10 toopham wrote: IS it just me or GOMTV Final doesn't seem as emotional as OSL or MSL final?
Is it because Iris is too ez for Flash so it's not that big of a win? Or is it because GOMTV is not as big as OSL OR MSL?
And listening to tasteless and SuperDM I can't hear the crowd so I can't feel the excitement with the crowd so it sucks. It just seems too quiet of a Final for me.
MSL / OSL has prestige
GOM has $$$, but not the prestige
Plus all the drama with kespa president or whoever that made it so Heroes, Sparkyz, T1 and Estro teams not participate.
On August 16 2009 20:10 toopham wrote: IS it just me or GOMTV Final doesn't seem as emotional as OSL or MSL final?
Is it because Iris is too ez for Flash so it's not that big of a win? Or is it because GOMTV is not as big as OSL OR MSL?
And listening to tasteless and SuperDM I can't hear the crowd so I can't feel the excitement with the crowd so it sucks. It just seems too quiet of a Final for me.
It's WAY smaller than MSL or OSL. But it has the most prize money and apparently in a limited sample size, has the format most conducive to an elite player winning seeing as how Jaedong, Bisu, and Flash have now won the first three.
Hoping for JD Flash showmatch - who isn't?!
It would just be a rape...
Haha not like JD Flash are 2-2 in 2009, with each knocking the other out of a league ... oh wait, that's exactly what has happened.
On August 16 2009 20:10 toopham wrote: IS it just me or GOMTV Final doesn't seem as emotional as OSL or MSL final?
Is it because Iris is too ez for Flash so it's not that big of a win? Or is it because GOMTV is not as big as OSL OR MSL?
And listening to tasteless and SuperDM I can't hear the crowd so I can't feel the excitement with the crowd so it sucks. It just seems too quiet of a Final for me.
It's WAY smaller than MSL or OSL. But it has the most prize money and apparently in a limited sample size, has the format most conducive to an elite player winning seeing as how Jaedong, Bisu, and Flash have now won the first three.
Hoping for JD Flash showmatch - who isn't?!
It would just be a rape...
Haha not like JD Flash are 2-2 in 2009, with each knocking the other out of a league ... oh wait, that's exactly what has happened.
Flash has been losing to every aggressive zerg he's come across.
How is Tasteless SO out of it in these casts? Like he just wondered "are they going to toss him in the air" but they ALREADY did that and apparently Tasteless missed it.
Looks like they are indeed setting up a JD Flash showmatch?
On August 16 2009 20:19 ArvickHero wrote: If GOM was shown on TV/had a better studio, along with all players playing, I think prestige would increase a lot more.
Hopefully with this "Blizzard Certification" it'll lead to a Kespa sanction of the event and all teams playing in it too
Really happy for Flash, his play in these games was just as masterful as I'd hoped for. Now I just hope he can bring his TvZ back to life and show us a good series against Jaedong. (assuming they set it up, and hopefully it will be significantly after the OSL finals so Jaedong can have time to relax and then practice)
On August 16 2009 20:19 ArvickHero wrote: If GOM was shown on TV/had a better studio, along with all players playing, I think prestige would increase a lot more.
Hopefully with this "Blizzard Certification" it'll lead to a Kespa sanction of the event and all teams playing in it too
actually in mumbo jumbo they've said, that kespa is fighting against blizzard for control, so this might not happen anytime soon
On August 16 2009 20:15 Bifur wrote: Perfect. 1st season champion was Jaedong 2nd season champion was Bisu 3rd season champion is Flash
Three best players shared these seasons among each other.
given less practice time dedicated to GOM over other leagues, its a clear indication of who the geniuses are of each race, the ones who dont need that much practice to be good, which is why i love this tournament.
it's pretty awesome how well the tournament weeds out the worst players in the end, even with all the upsets and gives the prize only to the very best. no GGplay or forGG here hahahaha
On August 16 2009 20:20 Rostam wrote: Really happy for Flash, his play in these games was just as masterful as I'd hoped for. Now I just hope he can bring his TvZ back to life and show us a good series against Jaedong. (assuming they set it up, and hopefully it will be significantly after the OSL finals so Jaedong can have time to relax and then practice)
As long as he remembers to build turrets, FlaSh's TvZ is top notch lol.
Brilliant! Flash won, game one was very good by Iris, not pulling back the Factory when it got spotted. Second game was Flash overall outplaying him, game 3 was definitly the best, watch it.
Yay at this finals, good games but not uber long tvt (All was good, dw)
Btw we gotta call Flash's TvT FvT lol.
On August 16 2009 20:21 Hinanawi wrote: In before people in the Power Ranking thread want to keep Flash off the PR next month too because he only won 3-1 and not 3-0.
UNACCEPTABLE PERFORMANCE FROM FLASH
lol'd.
On a serious note, I don't think Iris should get of the PR while Flash should dash back in at 5th or something.
On August 16 2009 20:20 Rostam wrote: Really happy for Flash, his play in these games was just as masterful as I'd hoped for. Now I just hope he can bring his TvZ back to life and show us a good series against Jaedong. (assuming they set it up, and hopefully it will be significantly after the OSL finals so Jaedong can have time to relax and then practice)
As long as he remembers to build turrets, FlaSh's TvZ is top notch lol.
yep, according to statistics flash is second only to JD in vZ matchup
On August 16 2009 20:22 Iplaythings wrote: Brilliant! Flash won, game one was very good by Iris, not pulling back the Factory when it got spotted. Second game was Flash overall outplaying him, game 3 was definitly the best, watch it.
Yay at this finals, good games but not uber long tvt (All was good, dw)
Btw we gotta call Flash's TvT FvT lol.
Yeah I think this will definitely cement Flash as the best TvTer.
On August 16 2009 20:20 Rostam wrote: Really happy for Flash, his play in these games was just as masterful as I'd hoped for. Now I just hope he can bring his TvZ back to life and show us a good series against Jaedong. (assuming they set it up, and hopefully it will be significantly after the OSL finals so Jaedong can have time to relax and then practice)
As long as he remembers to build turrets, FlaSh's TvZ is top notch lol.
Honestly I found the constant losses to 2 hatch lurkers a bit more distressing, but I suppose it's not entirely clear whether his opponents' choice of builds stems from a desire to take advantage of early game weakness or one to avoid facing Flash in late-game.
2299 ELO after that last game is entered, so close.
Also interesting to note that Flash's 2246 TvT ELO is on the verge of passing up Stork and Jangbi's PvT ELO peaks.
On August 16 2009 20:22 Garnet wrote: Iris is good, but Flash is god. one "o" made all the differences
Absolutely. I think realistically alot of people were just hoping Berserker would manage to pull a game or two off of him. I dunno I had hopes after the first game but once Flash got fired up he was infallible. No mistakes just clearly superior play.
On August 16 2009 20:13 Aus)MaCrO wrote: Translations...
Iris - "I don't care about this shitty tournament, I am practicing for the MSL"
"Rats are by nature attracted to trash, so I can see why Flash covets this title so much"
Iris - "I got raped and my skills suck compared to flash's, lol he was like 100 supply ahead of me"
"Also i cant understand my stupid fanboys, they cant accept the fact that i suck and flash raped me silly and they are posting idiotic comments to TL.net"
On August 16 2009 20:20 Rostam wrote: Really happy for Flash, his play in these games was just as masterful as I'd hoped for. Now I just hope he can bring his TvZ back to life and show us a good series against Jaedong. (assuming they set it up, and hopefully it will be significantly after the OSL finals so Jaedong can have time to relax and then practice)
As long as he remembers to build turrets, FlaSh's TvZ is top notch lol.
Honestly I found the constant losses to 2 hatch lurkers a bit more distressing, but I suppose it's not entirely clear whether his opponents' choice of builds stems from a desire to take advantage of early game weakness or one to avoid facing Flash in late-game.
2299 ELO after that last game is entered, so close.
For a period of time when FlaSh's TvZ was questionable, he seemed to be very stubborn about doing key things against the opponent's build. Like, not building turrets against mutas, doing unpolished builds in really important matches, not responding properly, etc.
I think everyone does know though that FlaSh's MnM control and late game TvZ gameplay is unmatchable.
On August 16 2009 20:13 Aus)MaCrO wrote: Translations...
Iris - "I don't care about this shitty tournament, I am practicing for the MSL"
"Rats are by nature attracted to trash, so I can see why Flash covets this title so much"
Iris - "I got raped and my skills suck compared to flash's, lol he was like 100 supply ahead of me"
"Also i cant understand my stupid fanboys, they cant accept the fact that i suck and flash raped me silly and they are posting idiotic comments to TL.net"
Good job, you proved a point about stupid fanboys and stooped to his level.
Incredible tournament by Flash. This guy is just in another league. His comebacks against Shuttle and July were unbelievable. Now lets hope he can win the next OSL/MSL
On August 16 2009 20:13 Aus)MaCrO wrote: Translations...
Iris - "I don't care about this shitty tournament, I am practicing for the MSL"
"Rats are by nature attracted to trash, so I can see why Flash covets this title so much"
Iris - "I got raped and my skills suck compared to flash's, lol he was like 100 supply ahead of me"
"Also i cant understand my stupid fanboys, they cant accept the fact that i suck and flash raped me silly and they are posting idiotic comments to TL.net"
Good job, you proved a point about stupid fanboys and stooped to his level.
Isn't the internet wonderful? You cannot make a joke without people saying "Fanboys" and other such nonsense.
On August 16 2009 20:13 Aus)MaCrO wrote: Translations...
Iris - "I don't care about this shitty tournament, I am practicing for the MSL"
"Rats are by nature attracted to trash, so I can see why Flash covets this title so much"
Iris - "I got raped and my skills suck compared to flash's, lol he was like 100 supply ahead of me"
"Also i cant understand my stupid fanboys, they cant accept the fact that i suck and flash raped me silly and they are posting idiotic comments to TL.net"
Good job, you proved a point about stupid fanboys and stooped to his level.
Isn't the internet wonderful? You cannot make a joke without people saying "Fanboys" and other such nonsense.
On August 16 2009 20:13 Aus)MaCrO wrote: Translations...
Iris - "I don't care about this shitty tournament, I am practicing for the MSL"
"Rats are by nature attracted to trash, so I can see why Flash covets this title so much"
Iris - "I got raped and my skills suck compared to flash's, lol he was like 100 supply ahead of me"
"Also i cant understand my stupid fanboys, they cant accept the fact that i suck and flash raped me silly and they are posting idiotic comments to TL.net"
Good job, you proved a point about stupid fanboys and stooped to his level.
Isn't the internet wonderful? You cannot make a joke without people saying "Fanboys" and other such nonsense.
Your statement doesn't really come off as a joke.
Well, I don't think anybody thought it was a legitimate translation, so in that sense it most certainly does.
On August 16 2009 20:13 Aus)MaCrO wrote: Translations...
Iris - "I don't care about this shitty tournament, I am practicing for the MSL"
"Rats are by nature attracted to trash, so I can see why Flash covets this title so much"
Iris - "I got raped and my skills suck compared to flash's, lol he was like 100 supply ahead of me"
"Also i cant understand my stupid fanboys, they cant accept the fact that i suck and flash raped me silly and they are posting idiotic comments to TL.net"
Good job, you proved a point about stupid fanboys and stooped to his level.
Isn't the internet wonderful? You cannot make a joke without people saying "Fanboys" and other such nonsense.
Your statement doesn't really come off as a joke.
Well, I don't think anybody thought it was a legitimate translation, so in that sense it most certainly does.
Well in the "sense" that your statement comes off as an angry belittlement of godlike TvT'er and general Terran from an angry fanboy, it most certainly doesn't.
On August 16 2009 20:13 Aus)MaCrO wrote: Translations...
Iris - "I don't care about this shitty tournament, I am practicing for the MSL"
"Rats are by nature attracted to trash, so I can see why Flash covets this title so much"
Iris - "I got raped and my skills suck compared to flash's, lol he was like 100 supply ahead of me"
"Also i cant understand my stupid fanboys, they cant accept the fact that i suck and flash raped me silly and they are posting idiotic comments to TL.net"
Good job, you proved a point about stupid fanboys and stooped to his level.
Isn't the internet wonderful? You cannot make a joke without people saying "Fanboys" and other such nonsense.
Your statement doesn't really come off as a joke.
Well, I don't think anybody thought it was a legitimate translation, so in that sense it most certainly does.
Well in the "sense" that your statement comes off as an angry belittlement of godlike TvT'er and general Terran from an angry fanboy, it most certainly doesn't.
Why is sense in quotes? Anyway, I am angry Iris lost, but I am not his fanboy by any means. I am just sad that he lost in the way he did, being completely outplayed by, as you say, a godlike player.
I don't think Iris can beat Calm. The first progamer that popped into my head after I heard Day9's "sidestepping" podcast was Calm and his quirky intelligent play.
On August 16 2009 20:13 Aus)MaCrO wrote: Translations...
Iris - "I don't care about this shitty tournament, I am practicing for the MSL"
"Rats are by nature attracted to trash, so I can see why Flash covets this title so much"
Iris - "I got raped and my skills suck compared to flash's, lol he was like 100 supply ahead of me"
"Also i cant understand my stupid fanboys, they cant accept the fact that i suck and flash raped me silly and they are posting idiotic comments to TL.net"
Good job, you proved a point about stupid fanboys and stooped to his level.
Isn't the internet wonderful? You cannot make a joke without people saying "Fanboys" and other such nonsense.
Your statement doesn't really come off as a joke.
Well, I don't think anybody thought it was a legitimate translation, so in that sense it most certainly does.
Well in the "sense" that your statement comes off as an angry belittlement of godlike TvT'er and general Terran from an angry fanboy, it most certainly doesn't.
At least Macros post was kinda funny, while kaspra's post was just fucking stupid and insulting
On August 16 2009 20:13 Aus)MaCrO wrote: Translations...
Iris - "I don't care about this shitty tournament, I am practicing for the MSL"
"Rats are by nature attracted to trash, so I can see why Flash covets this title so much"
Iris - "I got raped and my skills suck compared to flash's, lol he was like 100 supply ahead of me"
"Also i cant understand my stupid fanboys, they cant accept the fact that i suck and flash raped me silly and they are posting idiotic comments to TL.net"
Good job, you proved a point about stupid fanboys and stooped to his level.
Isn't the internet wonderful? You cannot make a joke without people saying "Fanboys" and other such nonsense.
Your statement doesn't really come off as a joke.
Well, I don't think anybody thought it was a legitimate translation, so in that sense it most certainly does.
Well in the "sense" that your statement comes off as an angry belittlement of godlike TvT'er and general Terran from an angry fanboy, it most certainly doesn't.
At least Macros post was kinda funny, while kaspra's post was just fucking stupid and insulting
See this guy gets it. I don't actually believe what I said, I was just venting frustration by having fun. People need to lighten up I think.
On August 16 2009 21:06 Aus)MaCrO wrote: thanks! I look forward to hearing what they actually say. I hope Iris doesn't take the loss badly.
watch the interview is gonna be like "you failed to get a perfect score by 1 game" i was also gonna post flash's reponse will be "i am so disappointed that i could not get a perfect score!!!!!!!" but decided not to !
Probably not the first to say but if I were Iris I would train as hard as I can for MSL. This is the biggest shot at starleague title he'd had in years; it's just Kwanro and Calm after all.
I'm sooooooo happy and relieved to finally see Flash win an individual league again (sucks that it was only GOM, though), both for him personally and also because it's been such a long time since any Terran player did it. Yay!
A Jaedong vs Flash Bo5, like they had between Bisu and JD, would be awesome. Please make it happen.
Good luck to Iris in the MSL, he has truly deserved winning a title this season.
On August 16 2009 23:07 amorpheus wrote: Probably not the first to say but if I were Iris I would train as hard as I can for MSL. This is the biggest shot at starleague title he'd had in years; it's just Kwanro and Calm after all.
I dunno, even if you can say Calm vs Jaedong was a fluke, Calm still looks pretty beastly right now. But yes, Iris still has relatively good chances vs. those two >.>
On August 16 2009 20:13 Aus)MaCrO wrote: Translations...
Iris - "I don't care about this shitty tournament, I am practicing for the MSL"
"Rats are by nature attracted to trash, so I can see why Flash covets this title so much"
Iris - "I got raped and my skills suck compared to flash's, lol he was like 100 supply ahead of me"
"Also i cant understand my stupid fanboys, they cant accept the fact that i suck and flash raped me silly and they are posting idiotic comments to TL.net"
Good job, you proved a point about stupid fanboys and stooped to his level.
Isn't the internet wonderful? You cannot make a joke without people saying "Fanboys" and other such nonsense.
Your statement doesn't really come off as a joke.
Well, I don't think anybody thought it was a legitimate translation, so in that sense it most certainly does.
Well in the "sense" that your statement comes off as an angry belittlement of godlike TvT'er and general Terran from an angry fanboy, it most certainly doesn't.
At least Macros post was kinda funny, while kaspra's post was just fucking stupid and insulting
No it wasn't; they were both fucking stupid and insulting.
On August 16 2009 23:07 amorpheus wrote: Probably not the first to say but if I were Iris I would train as hard as I can for MSL. This is the biggest shot at starleague title he'd had in years; it's just Kwanro and Calm after all.
I dunno, even if you can say Calm vs Jaedong was a fluke, Calm still looks pretty beastly right now. But yes, Iris still has relatively good chances vs. those two >.>
Calm's a better player than Iris with preparation.
Finally another tournament won, it was a long time since the OSL against Stork. Hopefully there are much more to come in near future...
On a side note, it's interesting how the 10 win TvT streak seems like unbreakable barrier. If I'm not mistaken, Midas, Nada, Canata, Leta and Flash even twice managed to get 10 consecutive win but failed on the 11th game. Well, Flash is still on 10 win streak in kespa sanctioned games, hopefully he could won the 11th there at least...
On August 16 2009 20:15 Bifur wrote: Perfect. (Don't forget GSI season champion was Flash ) 1st season champion was Jaedong 2nd season champion was Bisu 3rd season champion is Flash
Three best players shared these seasons among each other.
On August 17 2009 05:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: iris used to be soo good tvt too
He still is. This was FvT, though.
Nonono. Flash is certainly the best TvT player alive right now, but it's not comparable to Jaedong's ZvZ.
Why not? Check the game list - check the impossible comebacks - check the fact that he is completely invincible late game (similar to how JD seemed to be completely invincible in any ZvZ fight for awhile) ... the only difference is that it's possible to cheese TvT, which makes it slightly harder to have the same percentage.
I watch Flash play in game 2 and 3 in awe... That was just amazing, such a good sense of the match-up, perfect positioning and timing. No wonder Iris got discouraged after 3rd game. He wasn't able to break Flash and Flash just kept out-playing him.
On August 17 2009 05:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: iris used to be soo good tvt too
He still is. This was FvT, though.
Nonono. Flash is certainly the best TvT player alive right now, but it's not comparable to Jaedong's ZvZ.
Flash is certainly the best TvT player of all time. JD's ZvZ win rate is 10% higher, but some of that comes from the nature of the match up. I think JD and Flash have similar levels of domination over their respective mirror matchups.
On August 17 2009 05:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: iris used to be soo good tvt too
He still is. This was FvT, though.
Nonono. Flash is certainly the best TvT player alive right now, but it's not comparable to Jaedong's ZvZ.
Do you watch his games?
He more than is.
The problem is that people watch but do not understand what's happening. Flash play in the final was simply AMAZING. I could watch these games again and again just to admire his incredible play and pick up all those small things that makes all the difference.
And the fact that his been playing like this for some time totally justifies for me the term FvT
Flash is such a great player, it's so gratifying to see him take another title after all this time. He was looking happy and rested during the finals, and it seems like his team might finally be stepping it up. I'm optimistic about Flash's future performance and it should be fun to watch.
Fuck =( Iris...........don't worry, you'll get the MSL. If only Gom had a video player where I could skip without it being loaded. Anyone know if Iris was heartbroken/sad when he lost? ;_; You can do it buddy. Get that MSL.
On August 16 2009 20:13 Aus)MaCrO wrote: Translations...
Iris - "I don't care about this shitty tournament, I am practicing for the MSL"
"Rats are by nature attracted to trash, so I can see why Flash covets this title so much"
Iris - "I got raped and my skills suck compared to flash's, lol he was like 100 supply ahead of me"
"Also i cant understand my stupid fanboys, they cant accept the fact that i suck and flash raped me silly and they are posting idiotic comments to TL.net"
Good job, you proved a point about stupid fanboys and stooped to his level.
Isn't the internet wonderful? You cannot make a joke without people saying "Fanboys" and other such nonsense.
Your statement doesn't really come off as a joke.
Well, I don't think anybody thought it was a legitimate translation, so in that sense it most certainly does.
Well in the "sense" that your statement comes off as an angry belittlement of godlike TvT'er and general Terran from an angry fanboy, it most certainly doesn't.
At least Macros post was kinda funny, while kaspra's post was just fucking stupid and insulting
No it wasn't; they were both fucking stupid and insulting.
The lesson: People need to lighten up. It's just a game.
On August 17 2009 09:22 Avidkeystamper wrote: I don't particularly favor one terran over the other. Ironically, that's exactly the kind of advice you should take.
Will do. It is too depressing to follow one player. Thanks for not calling me "fucking stupid" again
Wow, I was very much impressed how flash played the fourth game. Im sitting there thinking "okay, so Iris has a nice contain, defended dropship harrass quite well and is taking a much faster fourth. Should be a good game". Then 5 minutes later Iris is completely destroyed. That outflanking maneuver + doomdrop was just so incredible.
On August 17 2009 05:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote: iris used to be soo good tvt too
He still is. This was FvT, though.
Nonono. Flash is certainly the best TvT player alive right now, but it's not comparable to Jaedong's ZvZ.
Do you watch his games?
He more than is.
I'm fine with it if some people disagree with me and say that Flash's TvT is as good as Jaedong's ZvZ, but it certainly isn't "better". It is hard to compare two different matchups, but I'll say this clearly: There is no player who dominates any matchup more than Jaedong dominates ZvZ.
Well the two most dominant match ups are Flash's TvT and Jaedong's ZvZ, but in the immediate present, Jaedong's ZvZ has been very vulnerable, whereas Flash's TvT has had no questionable games lately. I think this is more due to other zergs figuring out ZvZ more and catching up to Jaedong, whereas Flash is just stepping into the same stride Jaedong's ZvZ used to be.
well, i still think that Jaedong's ZvZ is not necessarily going downhill for the games that he's lost, a) the psychological factor b)unneeded risk builds without those, his ZvZ should still be top class
iris looked absolutely second rate after flash was done with him. even before the big fights flash was consistently ahead of iris in terms of unit count by 5-10.
wow, i feel like the GOM finals got completely overshadowed by the MSL and OSL. I didn't even realized it already happened until I looked at this thread (whoops)
On August 20 2009 00:40 Ace wrote: /Jaedong fanboi mode excuse mode on
But Iris had to practice for MSL and Proleague while Flash ONLY had Gom to practice for! Not fair for Iris he was exhausted!
/qq mode
It's a fair complaint. It's also supported by Iris throwing out so many proxies -- really fast builds that don't require as much practice time to plan out a game for. I think IRis was trying to schedule his practice intelligently and wanted to see if he could exploit the "Flash sucks against aggression now," fad, but it's not like this outcome was a surprise. Even with all the time he wanted to practice, the outcome being "Iris catches Flash off guard once with early aggression and is then beaten impressively by Flash's insane TvT," is pretty much exactly what everyone was predicting (aside from those predicting an upset, of course).
EPT![[image loading]](http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu147/cubesoup/newbanner-2.png)
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. Hoping for pleasant surprise 
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