Overall Record: 53-52 (50.47%) Overall Last 10: 9-1 (90%) [WWWLWWWWWW] ZvP: 14-14 (50%) ZvP Last 10: 7-3 (70%) [WLWLWLWWWW] Head-to-Head: IrOn: 2-0 (100%) Head-to-Head: Kal: 4-0 (100%) Overall Record on Holy World: 2-0 (100%) ZvP Record on Holy World: 2-0 (100%) Overall Record on Outsider: 2-0 (100%) ZvP Record on Outsider: 2-0 (100%) Overall Record on Return of the King: 0-0 (0%) ZvP Record on Return of the King: 0-0 (0%)
Overall Record: 0-4 (0%) Overall Last 10: 0-4 (0%) [LLLL] PvZ: 0-2 (0%) PvZ Last 10: 0-2 (0%) [LL] PvP: 0-2 (0%) PvP Last 10: 0-2 (0%) [LL] Head-to-Head: ZerO: 0-2 (0%) Head-to-Head: Kal: 0-0 (0%) Overall Record on Holy World: 0-1 (0%) PvZ Record on Holy World: 0-1 (0%) PvP Record on Holy World: 0-0 (0%) Overall Record on Outsider: 0-1 (0%) PvZ Record on Outsider: 0-1 (0%) PvP Record on Outsider: 0-0 (0%) Overall Record on Return of the King: 0-0 (0%) PvZ Record on Return of the King: 0-0 (0%) PvP Record on Return of the King: 0-0 (0%)
Overall Record: 106-82 (56.38%) Overall Last 10: 4-6 (40%) [LLWWWLLWLL] PvZ: 33-22 (60%) PvZ Last 10: 4-6 (50%) [LWWWLLLWLL] PvP: 31-31 (50%) PvP Last 10: 6-4 (60%) [WLLLWWLWWW] Head-to-Head: ZerO: 0-4 (0%) Head-to-Head: IrOn: 0-0 (0%) Overall Record on Holy World: 0-1 (0%) PvZ Record on Holy World: 0-1 (0%) PvP Record on Holy World: 0-0 (0%) Overall Record on Outsider: 1-1 (50%) PvZ Record on Outsider: 0-1 (0%) PvP Record on Outsider: 0-0 (0%) Overall Record on Return of the King: 0-2 (0%) PvZ Record on Return of the King: 0-2 (0%) PvP Record on Return of the King: 0-0 (0%)
Holy World Games Played: 4 ZvP: 2-1 (66.67%) PvP: 0 Outsider Games Played: 29 ZvP: 5-1 (83.33%) PvP: 0 Return of the King Games Played: 66 ZvP: 7-9 (43.8%) PvP: 4
On May 08 2009 14:04 BlackMagister wrote: So why is IrOn being hyped? Are you guys just making fun of a rookie with an 0-2 record?
I don't think anyone is making fun of him. He managed to qualify from offline preliminaries starting from round of 10 (or 9 whatever) and eliminating some decent opponents (like Sangho). Also he was one of 4 tosses if I am not mistaken that won their groups.
Too bad for him that he has to go against Zero and Kal. I guess Zero should make it but I hope for some good games.
On May 08 2009 14:04 BlackMagister wrote: So why is IrOn being hyped? Are you guys just making fun of a rookie with an 0-2 record?
I don't think anyone is making fun of him. He managed to qualify from offline preliminaries starting from round of 10 (or 9 whatever) and eliminating some decent opponents (like Sangho). Also he was one of 4 tosses if I am not mistaken that won their groups.
Too bad for him that he has to go against Zero and Kal. I guess Zero should make it but I hope for some good games.
He was also the only player from the March draft class to make it through what were his first OSL Offline Prelims. So he's like the ultimate royal road candidate going into this OSL.
ZerO should have no problem with Iron...as for Kal, tonight's the night we'll see whether he's decided to get serious about his SC career again. His PvZ especially has been abysmal lately.
Honestly I think ZerO is going cruise through this group - I think he's the world's third-best Zerg at this moment, and he should thrive in this map pool.
I can't stay up for this group (work 8AM tomorrow ) but I hope the games are exciting! This is one of the Ro36's most intriguing groups!
On May 08 2009 15:50 JWD wrote: ZerO should have no problem with Iron...as for Kal, tonight's the night we'll see whether he's decided to get serious about his SC career again. His PvZ especially has been abysmal lately.
Honestly I think ZerO is going cruise through this group - I think he's the world's third-best Zerg at this moment, and he should thrive in this map pool.
I can't stay up for this group (work 8AM tomorrow ) but I hope the games are exciting! This is one of the Ro36's most intriguing groups!
I'm kinda trying to get hyped about IrOn, but ZerO is good yeah. My only thing is that his ZvP is inconsistent, so he's prone to an upset.
Seeing what Kal's decided will definitely be interesting as well, he's one of my favorite Protoss players.
EDIT: This is definitely my favorite group out of the 12, easily.
coach was saying 'watch over gorush' - i'm assuming the others were making fun, eventually yellow was like "yea i'll watch over him" then later gorush talking to coach talking after a game where gorush won - coach talking about how opponent had 5 scourge and around 8-10 mutalisks - at first gorush disagreed but then coach repeated himself and gorush said jokingly, "then how is it that i won~" hahaha then the caption said (as the coach grilled him) "hey, i'm the sergeant here..."
Lings run over to IrOn's base, but cannons are up.
ZerO glitches lings through the mineral line to the back end of IrOn's base, and he doesn't even know. This could be quick, they might sneak in unnoticed, they do.
On May 08 2009 18:45 sashkata wrote: This is gonna be bad for p. lol They have to figure out a new wall or one base.
They could treat it like a 5 pool and put one cannon in their main, but that puts you pretty far behind as well (especially considering this was from cross positions)
commentators: second game will be on outsider! iron must not lose now, or else he's out.iron needs to show wha tkind of player he is before he leaves~ he needs to show this through his abilities. the fans are curious!!
commentators: we're curious as to what iron prepared. it seems whatever expression iron wears, it's obvious he's very nervous, since he is a very new player. stage experience is so important, and iron has none of that. even through strategy alone, it's hard for iron to do anythign especially if zero starts out with a safe build, which ah, he is doing with a quick pool up
Gateway first for IrOn. Now, I haven't seen a lot of PvZ on Outsider lately (other than the 5pool two nights ago, but a Forge-FE isn't impossible is it?
First lings pop for ZerO and get his scout.
IrOn doing a double proxy gateway below ZerO's base.
too bad Iron qualified in this time of the year. I have a feeling that KePSA has a way of creating maps that favor each race...and each race has a specific time.
commentators: this is allin from iron!!! if he can just get that sunken out.. ah but mutas will be out soon! it feels like zero is defending this well! ah.. this strategy was good but... mutas are about to hatch ... ah yes! this is right! iron needs to get the spire out! he needs to buy more time!
commentators: he needs to start getting some gas - it's getting increasingly hard for him to end this on zealots alone. ah .. wow zero, harassing with lings so that iron can't even mine minerals properly.
commentators: wow that one sunken is doing so much. the 2 zealots from the 2 gates at 7 and 4 zealots from 5.. those 6 zealots was a good strategy - if iron had just controlled a little better .. ah it must be so disappointing for him. but zero had great sunken placement and ling control.
guy with funny voice: from the start it has been an emotional ride (shows shuttle crying) however, this is just the start~ who will be the player that qualifies in ro36? this is group B!
commentators: from zero's perspective, kal isn't THAT intimidating. although kal is known for his zerg play and zero doesn't have amazing stats against protoss, STILL zero is ahead in head-to-heads - let's see how the game plays out!
commentators: based on practicing alone, we can say zero is at an advantage since he only had to practice protoss. other commentator: however you can't say it's that great of an advantage since it's likely kal also only practiced against zerg.. hahaa
On May 08 2009 19:16 keV. wrote: Kal looking sexy without his glasses on
optic surgery i assume, ggplay has no glasses these days too
Contacts?
lasik is my assumption, contacts probably get annoying for the players after a while
Yea probably why most players stick to glasses when they play but lasik requires a long time of recovery where any activity that could strain the eyes is not recommended at all...
Must say Kal looks pretty spiffy sans glasses though
commentators: the reason why this is scary is that zero obviously practiced a lot for this, but the person receiving such an attack probably didn't prepare for this at all!
commentator 2: this could be poisonous though - he needs to do something before ht's with psionic storm come out since he doesn't have lurkers or anything
commentators: wow, zero really knows how to enjoy the game commentator 2: but this isn't just a joke- this is a serious strategy, if zero fails with this strategy this is GG!
commentators: wow, if zero wins with a strategy like this, protoss players are going to cry. protoss players are already feeling like this map is difficult for them...
On May 08 2009 19:29 Smix wrote: commentators: wow, if zero wins with a strategy like this, protoss players are going to cry. protoss players are already feeling like this map is difficult for them...
But seriously, I think they are unconsciously making maps that favor races, and they make these maps in a way that there's a season for each race.
observers out for Kal, but I heard a few ovies loading up with something or another. Kal trying to break out, but not succeeding, and now a bunch of hydras are gonna go in the back way. Kal being attacked on two fronts.
On May 08 2009 19:29 Smix wrote: commentators: wow, if zero wins with a strategy like this, protoss players are going to cry. protoss players are already feeling like this map is difficult for them...
But seriously, I think they are unconsciously making maps that favor races, and they make these maps in a way that there's a season for each race.
Possibly, but there's also a chance they're trying to promote new builds and new play.
commentators: kal needs to come out now, he has no choice otherwise zero will only get stronger.. are there no storms?? if he can jsut get 2 storms out this can be possible..
On May 08 2009 19:29 immacolate wrote: infested terran in pvz? come on this is imba bullshit.
That's what they said against mech. But no offense, Infested Terrans has always been in SC and people who whine about it are idiots who don't want to look for a solution.
You can always take out that CC before queens pop.
commentators: wow, even if kal loses he must want to destroy that command center if nothing else commentator 2: but another thing to keep in mind is that zero can lift that cc if he wants commentators: this is seriously a new game.. we've never seen a game like this before. this is like zerg paradise
commentators: since zero had already beaten kal twice before, he must have already been confident, and on top of that kal was probably not prepared at all for this strategy.. protoss players after this game are probably going to have to think even harder about what zerg opponents will do..
On May 08 2009 19:33 GTR wrote: people crying about infested terran imbalance should be aware they are fragile as fuck (60hp iirc) and can be sniped so easily.
yea, plus you gotta control them separately like zero did, otherwise your force can get owned so easy.
On May 08 2009 19:29 immacolate wrote: infested terran in pvz? come on this is imba bullshit.
That's what they said against mech. But no offense, Infested Terrans has always been in SC and people who whine about it are idiots who don't want to look for a solution.
You can always take out that CC before queens pop.
They have not always existed vs Toss, who's strength relies in fewer, strong units as opposed to terran who not so much. Terran also relies more in range and thus can shoot them down easier, making it more balanced in ZvT. Also in ZvT it's purposely not a readily available unit htat you're supposed to have to infest fromt he enemy CC.
We've seen zerg imba maps, especially lately, but this one at least grants us infested terrans, even in a pvz. So this is my favourite zerg imba map so far:D It was just epic to watch
On May 08 2009 19:35 ThePhan2m wrote: and queens are pretty high in tech, so you can easily take out the neutral command centre from the map before that tech is reached.
On May 08 2009 19:35 ThePhan2m wrote: and queens are pretty high in tech, so you can easily take out the neutral command centre from the map before that tech is reached.
easily?kal managed to reach the middle once, and got pushed back fast
On May 08 2009 19:33 GTR wrote: people crying about infested terran imbalance should be aware they are fragile as fuck (60hp iirc) and can be sniped so easily.
yea, plus you gotta control them separately like zero did, otherwise your force can get owned so easy.
Do infested terrans take full damage from dragoons? If not it will be 6 shots to snipe it. No so easy.
On May 08 2009 19:35 ThePhan2m wrote: and queens are pretty high in tech, so you can easily take out the neutral command centre from the map before that tech is reached.
easily?kal managed to reach the middle once, and got pushed back fast
he had an easy chance to kill it with his first dt.
It might be easier for toss to kill the neutral CC than to deal with infested marines. I mean they should have plenty of time before queens nest is up ;O
On May 08 2009 19:29 immacolate wrote: infested terran in pvz? come on this is imba bullshit.
That's what they said against mech. But no offense, Infested Terrans has always been in SC and people who whine about it are idiots who don't want to look for a solution.
You can always take out that CC before queens pop.
They have not always existed vs Toss, who's strength relies in fewer, strong units as opposed to terran who not so much. Terran also relies more in range and thus can shoot them down easier, making it more balanced in ZvT. Also in ZvT it's purposely not a readily available unit htat you're supposed to have to infest fromt he enemy CC.
Either way I still ike the addition hehe
Maybe that's why they added a CC in the middle.. "So, what if we can have Infested Terran's on ZvT, since the Zerg's are still not working towards infested CC's and using Infested Terrans....." "Cool Idea"
On May 08 2009 19:35 ThePhan2m wrote: and queens are pretty high in tech, so you can easily take out the neutral command centre from the map before that tech is reached.
easily?kal managed to reach the middle once, and got pushed back fast
I think that works cause kal dint expected... and a few infested terrans work so good helping the lurker/hydra contain, if only those infested bombs worked on probes...
On May 08 2009 19:36 iLoveKTF wrote: Im fine with this, at least this forces the protoss to not open forge expand in pvz.
I was about to say this. Whining people like "OMG Infested Terran in PvZ imba" are ridiculous. Don't do the same f'ing build every other game on maps that almost always favor it for 2 years, or if you do, prepare to be countered.
Bullshit. Next thing we see is maps where building-addons for terrans are already standing in the base, like scans from first moment, auto-attached physic-labs and controll-towers...
On May 08 2009 19:39 Heimatloser wrote: Bullshit. Next thing we see is maps where building-addons for terrans are already standing in the base, like scans from first moment, auto-attached physic-labs and controll-towers...
On May 08 2009 19:40 Smix wrote: commentators: at least the drop on the probes was a failure - if that drop on the probes was also a success kal might actually have left crying
I think it certainly makes for interesting play, but it seems like there is not nearly enough risk for a zerg player using the CC. Too freebie-ish imo. Oh well, nicely played by zero anyway.
On May 08 2009 19:39 Heimatloser wrote: Bullshit. Next thing we see is maps where building-addons for terrans are already standing in the base, like scans from first moment, auto-attached physic-labs and controll-towers...
shit why not. maybe there could be maps with creep on the ground in same areas too. it leaves it open for creative play. its been like 10 years, why not have a bit of fun.
On May 08 2009 19:39 Heimatloser wrote: Bullshit. Next thing we see is maps where building-addons for terrans are already standing in the base, like scans from first moment, auto-attached physic-labs and controll-towers...
You're a Zerg and you call this Bullshit? This is brilliant.
On May 08 2009 19:36 iLoveKTF wrote: Im fine with this, at least this forces the protoss to not open forge expand in pvz.
I was about to say this. Whining people like "OMG Infested Terran in PvZ imba" are ridiculous. Don't do the same f'ing build every other game on maps that almost always favor it for 2 years, or if you do, prepare to be countered.
The 'imbaness' is that only one race can take advantage of that CC in middle... And that map isn't very good for 2 gate or 1 gate tech.
On May 08 2009 19:29 immacolate wrote: infested terran in pvz? come on this is imba bullshit.
That's what they said against mech. But no offense, Infested Terrans has always been in SC and people who whine about it are idiots who don't want to look for a solution.
You can always take out that CC before queens pop.
No offense but which part of INFESTED TERRAN IN PVZ were you not able to understand?
Terrans have ranged units, tanks and mines that can take down ITs while they are closing in, Protoss only has dragoons and they do not even inflict full damage to ITs.
They can't be sniped easily at all, it forces protoss to make a large goon army or to switch to reavers. It's pretty influential. And SilverSkyLark saying it is fine because they have been in the game forever is bullshit of course. The game wasn't meant like this, if it adds an extra dynamic then all for the better but if it creates an imbalance it's bullshit. We'll have to see in the coming games if protoss can beat zerg when zerg knows they will face reavers on this map.
On May 08 2009 19:29 immacolate wrote: infested terran in pvz? come on this is imba bullshit.
That's what they said against mech. But no offense, Infested Terrans has always been in SC and people who whine about it are idiots who don't want to look for a solution.
You can always take out that CC before queens pop.
No offense but which part of INFESTED TERRAN IN PVZ were you not able to understand?
Terrans have ranged units, tanks and mines that can take down ITs while they are closing in, Protoss only has dragoons and they do not even inflict full damage to ITs.
* Large numbers of Dragoons with the Singularity Charge upgrade can destroy Infested Terrans before they can come within range to do harm. * The High Templar's Psionic Storm can easily stop Infested Terrans in their tracks. * Scouts and Carriers can attack Infested Terrans with complete impunity. * Reavers can eliminate Infested Terrans before they can approach close enough to destroy anything. * The Dark Archon's Maelstrom can immobilize Infested Terrans. Infested Terrans can also be taken over completely with Mind Control.
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
That's what makes it awesome. Sure Yosh has done mech TvZ before Fantasy, but Fantasy made it popular. Doing a new strategy successfully in a televised match gives other players confidence to use your strategy.
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: I don't see how brilliant this is , it's not like they asked themselves why there was a cc in the middle of the map during practice ...
I'm pretty sure every pro zerg tried that in practice and every pro p faced it .
He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
he still played well though
I agree, this is hardly brilliant. Its not like he had to come up with a strat.
If the map had more about it that favored Toss, I'd be fine with it, but it seems like it's going to be a protoss graveyard all over from the few games we've seen on it.
On May 08 2009 19:39 Heimatloser wrote: Bullshit. Next thing we see is maps where building-addons for terrans are already standing in the base, like scans from first moment, auto-attached physic-labs and controll-towers...
shit why not. maybe there could be maps with creep on the ground in same areas too. it leaves it open for creative play. its been like 10 years, why not have a bit of fun.
They could have premade nuke silos and covert ops.
commentators: this is an important game for kal... his image has been weakening and if he loses the gap can only get bigger and bigger.. oh? is he going 2 gate?
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: I don't see how brilliant this is , it's not like they asked themselves why there was a cc in the middle of the map during practice ...
I'm pretty sure every pro zerg tried that in practice and every pro p faced it .
He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
he still played well though
I agree, this is hardly brilliant. Its not like he had to come up with a strat.
Right, he didn't come up with a strat. He just used a unit that is hardly ever seen and used a build that no one has ever done before in a public game. -_-
commentators: ah... it really does seem that kal is playing with a blank mind.. he must be shook up. ah things are completely twisted for him now that his strategy has been revealed... starting with 2 gates and becoming poor and now warping a stargate..
500 damage is ridiculous. regardless of the situation in which you obtain them, that is too much damage, its just stupid. land-scourges that are harder to kill and do 4x the damage
commentators: kal NEEDS to move out now .. he can't just sit still like this he needs to force zero to at least make a sunken or something. wow.. that ling is still alive? even though a goon was chasing it? that ling's desire to live is unbelievable. that ling alone has 2 kills
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: I don't see how brilliant this is , it's not like they asked themselves why there was a cc in the middle of the map during practice ...
I'm pretty sure every pro zerg tried that in practice and every pro p faced it .
He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
he still played well though
I agree, this is hardly brilliant. Its not like he had to come up with a strat.
Right, he didn't come up with a strat. He just used a unit that is hardly ever seen and used a build that no one has ever done before in a public game. -_-
Are you suggesting that another Zerg would not make use of the neutral CC?
commentators: rather than lurkers it seems zero is thinking of mutalisks. those hydras seem there purely to defend against corsairs, yes the spire has just completed and he's saving his larva. commentator 2: ah, but he can also be faking and making it seem like mutas when its actually hydras...
I think the correct answer to zero's strat with IT probably involves corsairs or some form of strong anti-air to prevent him from just dropping IT on top of dragoons.
On May 08 2009 19:39 Heimatloser wrote: Bullshit. Next thing we see is maps where building-addons for terrans are already standing in the base, like scans from first moment, auto-attached physic-labs and controll-towers...
You're a Zerg and you call this Bullshit? This is brilliant.
So your mental concept is "I am playing Zerg so please make all the maps strongly Zerg favored so that I can win every single game \o/" In exactly how many years will you reach the age for high school?
commentators: kal expanded really late... on top of that he started off with 2 gates and a stargate.. what does this mean? this means he'll have late observers, which means zero should utilize this and go lurkers
On May 08 2009 19:39 Heimatloser wrote: Bullshit. Next thing we see is maps where building-addons for terrans are already standing in the base, like scans from first moment, auto-attached physic-labs and controll-towers...
You're a Zerg and you call this Bullshit? This is brilliant.
So your mental concept is "I am playing Zerg so please make all the maps strongly Zerg favored so that I can win every single game \o/" In exactly how many years will you reach the age for high school?
that was one of the lamest attempts at flaming someone in the history of internet forums
On May 08 2009 19:36 iLoveKTF wrote: Im fine with this, at least this forces the protoss to not open forge expand in pvz.
I was about to say this. Whining people like "OMG Infested Terran in PvZ imba" are ridiculous. Don't do the same f'ing build every other game on maps that almost always favor it for 2 years, or if you do, prepare to be countered.
why do people always say this? forge fe isnt a choice, 2 gate and 1 gate tech are horrible on almost all modern maps. forge fe every game is a disadvantage already.
ZerO has a ton of hydras trying to bust in the natural, but I don't see an ovie, so those DTs are raping. However, he's still doing a ton of damage first.
* Large numbers of Dragoons with the Singularity Charge upgrade can destroy Infested Terrans before they can come within range to do harm. * The High Templar's Psionic Storm can easily stop Infested Terrans in their tracks. * Scouts and Carriers can attack Infested Terrans with complete impunity. * Reavers can eliminate Infested Terrans before they can approach close enough to destroy anything. * The Dark Archon's Maelstrom can immobilize Infested Terrans. Infested Terrans can also be taken over completely with Mind Control.
commentators: kal is lucky he still had those corsairs - if zero had had overlords also in that attack, it is very possible he would have pushed through. ah, it seems kal is in danger every moment
Kal does a DT drop, but hydras get into place. One DT dies, the other escapes. Kal is attacking the 1 oclock expo again. Takes out the two sunkens, but lurkers get there to save it.
Kal trying to stay in this with different things, but ZerO's keeping him on his toes.
Kal taking a 3/4 oclock expo, while Zero has a second evo chamber.
commentatorsah, but kal is also defending very well. on top of that he is showing ht+shuttle play.. if he can keep playing like this he has a chance - ahhh this is disappoitning... so disappointing only 1 probe kill
Is it me or do I see Zero ready to get 4th gas already?
Dunno how game went since I just joined, but commentators saying that Kal is somehow defending well against Zero's harassment, but Kal's own harassment is fail.
commentators: not sure if it's because of his shock from teh game on holy world but it seems the game is really not playing otu the way kal wants... ahh gg...
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
That's what makes it awesome. Sure Yosh has done mech TvZ before Fantasy, but Fantasy made it popular. Doing a new strategy successfully in a televised match gives other players confidence to use your strategy.
Uhhm, there was also a televised match on Neo Arkanoid I think, NaDa vs a Zerg which involved Infested Terrans.
commentators: time to talk to zero~ zero: i feel great that it feels like i'm finally int eh starleague commentators: we'll ask what fans are curiuos about: what is your goal for this starleague? zero: as a royal road candidate i want to reach it commentators: we wish you luck~
commentators: it does seem that zero's potential is enormous, especially since nowadays the maps seem favorable for zerg. his protoss play has also improved a lot - his potential in the starleague is great.
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
That's what makes it awesome. Sure Yosh has done mech TvZ before Fantasy, but Fantasy made it popular. Doing a new strategy successfully in a televised match gives other players confidence to use your strategy.
Uhhm, there was also a televised match on Neo Arkanoid I think, NaDa vs a Zerg which involved Infested Terrans.
vs Chojja. It was used towards the end as a humiliation thing, nothing like this. I never said it was the first appearance of an infested terran in a televised match. In that game, it was used as part of an actual strategy.
GG no re for call =) Good to see Zero pwning so hard tonight.
PS: 1 bad side of infested terran is that you have to focus on them when you are not using them cause you see that kal used his zealots to trigger the infested terran next to zerg units (so having so much focus on army could harm your macro)
On May 08 2009 20:03 Smix wrote: commentators: time to talk to zero~ zero: i feel great that it feels like i'm finally int eh starleague commentators: we'll ask what fans are curiuos about: what is your goal for this starleague? zero: as a royal road candidate i want to reach it commentators: we wish you luck~
YES! ROYAL ROOAAADDD
ZerO, I'll forgive you for being such a pushover lately in proleague if you can manage a good royal road run
commentators: of course it was expected zerg would do will, but after today's games it just seems that protoss will have a lot mroe to think about. commentators: ah zero's play today.. it was so diverse. he showed us shocking utilization of the maps.
zero is probably the most likely candidate to royal road this season, but i highly doubt anyone from the royal road player pool will be able to pull it off.
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
That's what makes it awesome. Sure Yosh has done mech TvZ before Fantasy, but Fantasy made it popular. Doing a new strategy successfully in a televised match gives other players confidence to use your strategy.
Uhhm, there was also a televised match on Neo Arkanoid I think, NaDa vs a Zerg which involved Infested Terrans.
vs Chojja. It was used towards the end as a humiliation thing, nothing like this. I never said it was the first appearance of an infested terran in a televised match. In that game, it was used as part of an actual strategy.
No, it was against the now-retired, former-eNature (now eSTRO) Cool.
I'm thinking Zero is gonna be like by.hero from last osl. He's gonna do really well for quite awhile with some good upsets, but eventually get put in his place by someone.
On May 08 2009 20:03 Smix wrote: commentators: time to talk to zero~ zero: i feel great that it feels like i'm finally int eh starleague commentators: we'll ask what fans are curiuos about: what is your goal for this starleague? zero: as a royal road candidate i want to reach it commentators: we wish you luck~
YES! ROYAL ROOAAADDD
ZerO, I'll forgive you for being such a pushover lately in proleague if you can manage a good royal road run
cant see him making it he'll just run into jaedong or luxury and the roads stops he will have to have a lot of luck for it
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
That's what makes it awesome. Sure Yosh has done mech TvZ before Fantasy, but Fantasy made it popular. Doing a new strategy successfully in a televised match gives other players confidence to use your strategy.
Uhhm, there was also a televised match on Neo Arkanoid I think, NaDa vs a Zerg which involved Infested Terrans.
vs Chojja. It was used towards the end as a humiliation thing, nothing like this. I never said it was the first appearance of an infested terran in a televised match. In that game, it was used as part of an actual strategy.
No, it was against the now-retired, former-eNature (now eSTRO) Cool.
On May 08 2009 20:03 Smix wrote: commentators: time to talk to zero~ zero: i feel great that it feels like i'm finally int eh starleague commentators: we'll ask what fans are curiuos about: what is your goal for this starleague? zero: as a royal road candidate i want to reach it commentators: we wish you luck~
YES! ROYAL ROOAAADDD
ZerO, I'll forgive you for being such a pushover lately in proleague if you can manage a good royal road run
cant see him making it he'll just run into jaedong or luxury and the roads stops he will have to have a lot of luck for it
backho: because of my back injury, i wasn't able to reach ro16, and for the wildcard when i saw the players working so hard to get there, it made me having to give up that much more disappointing.
gorush: i really wanted to qualify and wasn't able to practice that much because of training but because i made it through prelims i was very happy
backho: whether it be personal life or progaming, if you just focus on one by one i believe it'll work out
gorush: in order ot keep my practice in winning a starleague i'll work hard on my keyboard, there is a different key for mutalisk control. if i just press that key, my muta control is great. (lol wtf)
On May 08 2009 20:07 TwoToneTerran wrote: I'm thinking Zero is gonna be like by.hero from last osl. He's gonna do really well for quite awhile with some good upsets, but eventually get put in his place by someone.
Who will he "upset" that wouldnt be the one to put him in his place. Rather zero is really good..so him doing will isnt an upset...and basically your prediction is hell do well, but someone will probably beat him, which really isnt predicting too much. Either way zero's a great player but sometimes plays kinda meh. Him beating kal is no shocker, And unlike by.hero, he has a proven ZvZ track record and despite getting 3-0(shit happens) he is still pretty much even money vs Luxury,he beat him most recently, and is the only zerg atm that can really go toe to toe and blow for blow, CONSISTENTLY, with JD.
On May 08 2009 20:07 TwoToneTerran wrote: I'm thinking Zero is gonna be like by.hero from last osl. He's gonna do really well for quite awhile with some good upsets, but eventually get put in his place by someone.
Who will he "upset" that wouldnt be the one to put him in his place. Rather zero is really good..so him doing will isnt an upset...and basically your prediction is hell do well, but someone will probably beat him, which really isnt predicting too much. Either way zero's a great player but sometimes plays kinda meh. Him beating kal is no shocker, And unlike by.hero, he has a proven ZvZ track record and despite getting 3-0(shit happens) he is still pretty much even money vs Luxury,he beat him most recently, and is the only zerg atm that can really go toe to toe and blow for blow, CONSISTENTLY, with JD.
Okay, sorry for not making a perfectly clairvoyant prediction instead of just comparing a trend from last season to this one. I guess next time I'll just post a match by match prediction of every possible MU in this OSL, just to please you. Point is, by.hero was a heretofore fairly good zerg who made a big splash in last year's OSL before being completely ripped apart 0-3 by Jaedong (which, given Zero's current record vs JD, is pretty symmetrical) in the semi-finals. I could see him getting to the semifinals, but if the likes of any other S-Class is there (specifically Jaedong), I see him getting put in his place, bringing his royal road (modern royal roaders are almost always upset matches, that's why they're royal roaders) to a quick stop.
PS: Zero has never stood toe to toe with JD, are you insane? He's 1-3 and you are definitely not telling me his other MUs are as good as JD's or else he wouldn't be a possible royal roader this year.
On May 08 2009 20:07 TwoToneTerran wrote: I'm thinking Zero is gonna be like by.hero from last osl. He's gonna do really well for quite awhile with some good upsets, but eventually get put in his place by someone.
Who will he "upset" that wouldnt be the one to put him in his place. Rather zero is really good..so him doing will isnt an upset...and basically your prediction is hell do well, but someone will probably beat him, which really isnt predicting too much. Either way zero's a great player but sometimes plays kinda meh. Him beating kal is no shocker, And unlike by.hero, he has a proven ZvZ track record and despite getting 3-0(shit happens) he is still pretty much even money vs Luxury,he beat him most recently, and is the only zerg atm that can really go toe to toe and blow for blow, CONSISTENTLY, with JD.
Okay, sorry for not making a perfectly clairvoyant prediction instead of just comparing a trend from last season to this one. I guess next time I'll just post a match by match prediction of every possible MU in this OSL, just to please you. Point is, by.hero was a heretofore fairly good zerg who made a big splash in last year's OSL before being completely ripped apart 0-3 by Jaedong (which, given Zero's current record vs JD, is pretty symmetrical) in the semi-finals. I could see him getting to the semifinals, but if the likes of any other S-Class is there (specifically Jaedong), I see him getting put in his place, bringing his royal road (modern royal roaders are almost always upset matches, that's why they're royal roaders) to a quick stop.
PS: Zero has never stood toe to toe with JD, are you insane? He's 1-3 and you are definitely not telling me his other MUs are as good as JD's or else he wouldn't be a possible royal roader this year.
To be fair, half of JD's games are "oh god Jaedong's so far behind how's he going to- oh okay haha that's right it's Jaedong."
edit: don't get me wrong, amazing game and I love zero, but definitely not toe to toe with Jaedong in so much as any other zerg who's good puts him in tough spots sometimes.
On May 08 2009 20:34 TwoToneTerran wrote: To be fair, half of JD's games are "oh god Jaedong's so far behind how's he going to- oh okay haha that's right it's Jaedong."
This is true, but are you sure it's just half? I'm more inclined to think that it's more than half of his games went like that..
On May 08 2009 20:07 TwoToneTerran wrote: I'm thinking Zero is gonna be like by.hero from last osl. He's gonna do really well for quite awhile with some good upsets, but eventually get put in his place by someone.
Who will he "upset" that wouldnt be the one to put him in his place. Rather zero is really good..so him doing will isnt an upset...and basically your prediction is hell do well, but someone will probably beat him, which really isnt predicting too much. Either way zero's a great player but sometimes plays kinda meh. Him beating kal is no shocker, And unlike by.hero, he has a proven ZvZ track record and despite getting 3-0(shit happens) he is still pretty much even money vs Luxury,he beat him most recently, and is the only zerg atm that can really go toe to toe and blow for blow, CONSISTENTLY, with JD.
Okay, sorry for not making a perfectly clairvoyant prediction instead of just comparing a trend from last season to this one. I guess next time I'll just post a match by match prediction of every possible MU in this OSL, just to please you. Point is, by.hero was a heretofore fairly good zerg who made a big splash in last year's OSL before being completely ripped apart 0-3 by Jaedong (which, given Zero's current record vs JD, is pretty symmetrical) in the semi-finals. I could see him getting to the semifinals, but if the likes of any other S-Class is there (specifically Jaedong), I see him getting put in his place, bringing his royal road (modern royal roaders are almost always upset matches, that's why they're royal roaders) to a quick stop.
PS: Zero has never stood toe to toe with JD, are you insane? He's 1-3 and you are definitely not telling me his other MUs are as good as JD's or else he wouldn't be a possible royal roader this year.
On May 08 2009 20:34 TwoToneTerran wrote: To be fair, half of JD's games are "oh god Jaedong's so far behind how's he going to- oh okay haha that's right it's Jaedong."
This is true, but are you sure it's just half? I'm more inclined to think that it's more than half of his games went like that..
Haha yeah, Jaedong ZvZ is probably the only ZvZ really worth watching (Exception: Luxury vs Yellow 8)
On May 08 2009 20:34 TwoToneTerran wrote: To be fair, half of JD's games are "oh god Jaedong's so far behind how's he going to- oh okay haha that's right it's Jaedong."
This is true, but are you sure it's just half? I'm more inclined to think that it's more than half of his games went like that..
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
That's what makes it awesome. Sure Yosh has done mech TvZ before Fantasy, but Fantasy made it popular. Doing a new strategy successfully in a televised match gives other players confidence to use your strategy.
Uhhm, there was also a televised match on Neo Arkanoid I think, NaDa vs a Zerg which involved Infested Terrans.
vs Chojja. It was used towards the end as a humiliation thing, nothing like this. I never said it was the first appearance of an infested terran in a televised match. In that game, it was used as part of an actual strategy.
NaDa vs Chojja was on Nemesis. The Arkanoid game was NaDa vs Cool[fOu].
On May 09 2009 04:19 Ideas wrote: Oh man game 1 of zero vs kal was fucking brutal. Kal looked like he had no way of breaking the contain at all.
How the FUCK does a protoss counter infested terrans lol
Dark Archon MC the Queen before it infests, duh!
Nah, the Infested Terrans are pretty lethal, but I don't think it's actually going to be something that completely devastates Protoss on the map. They can still destroy the CC before the Queen gets there.
The first game was brutal. These infested marines were really scary.
It is definitely bullshit that dragoons can easily kill them. Kal lost his dragoons not once and twice to them. When you are attacked by a hord of zerglings, 2 control groups of hydra and two infested marines it rather hard to eliminate them before they reach the main army... Before definite judgement about balance issue we will have to wait for a bit but so far it seems that PvZ will be really hard.
As someone said above we have to see how will reaver-sair work on this map and for some other tosses to play it.
On May 08 2009 19:34 Nevuk wrote: IT in ZvP is like giving zerg mines that do 5x as much damage with 40 more health.
Except Mines are FREE while making 10x infested will cost you 1000 minerals / 500 gas and supply
And you can only make 1 infested at a time slowly, once you make about 4 vultures, thats already 12 mines right there. And mines are cloaked. And they don't cost supply and once T starts getting them, he can get like 353252 of them in mid game
Can someone please explain to me the difference the infested terrans actually made in that game? I can only potentially accept the killing of three cannons at once as something he couldn't have just done with hydraling -_-
On May 09 2009 04:19 Ideas wrote: Oh man game 1 of zero vs kal was fucking brutal. Kal looked like he had no way of breaking the contain at all.
How the FUCK does a protoss counter infested terrans lol
Use fucking corsairs. Zero's army was criminally small, lacking in scourge too. The sairs could have easily dominated the overlords on that.
When he starts charging, do what Kal did and sacrifice 1-2 zealots to make it a fairly even trade. With the exception of the ht snipes, Kal did okay defending against the rines, but he seemed LOST on what to do with the overlord drops.
Kal *should* have done better that game. There's no excuse turtling 2 base against a fast tech, low army zerg unless you're Rock.
To point out, assuming Zero hadn't fast tech'd to queen and pumped rines, he'd have had a MUCH larger hydra/lurk force than that and he could've afforded drops into the gateway line (you saw his ovies hovering over the perfect drop spot). I can't stress enough that the ITs weren't really a game changer -- it was the vicious lurker contain and threat of drops in the main that did it, plain and simple. ITs just expounded on it cleverly and amusingly.
On May 09 2009 07:43 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: Can someone please explain to me the difference the infested terrans actually made in that game? I can only potentially accept the killing of three cannons at once as something he couldn't have just done with hydraling -_-
It widdled down kals army and one of them even killed 3 dragoons not to mention sniping temps.
On May 09 2009 04:19 Ideas wrote: Oh man game 1 of zero vs kal was fucking brutal. Kal looked like he had no way of breaking the contain at all.
How the FUCK does a protoss counter infested terrans lol
Use fucking corsairs. Zero's army was criminally small, lacking in scourge too. The sairs could have easily dominated the overlords on that.
When he starts charging, do what Kal did and sacrifice 1-2 zealots to make it a fairly even trade. With the exception of the ht snipes, Kal did okay defending against the rines, but he seemed LOST on what to do with the overlord drops.
Kal *should* have done better that game. There's no excuse turtling 2 base against a fast tech, low army zerg unless you're Rock.
To point out, assuming Zero hadn't fast tech'd to queen and pumped rines, he'd have had a MUCH larger hydra/lurk force than that and he could've afforded drops into the gateway line (you saw his ovies hovering over the perfect drop spot). I can't stress enough that the ITs weren't really a game changer -- it was the vicious lurker contain and threat of drops in the main that did it, plain and simple. ITs just expounded on it cleverly and amusingly.
toss avoids using sairs on maps like that because it's nearly impossible to secure a third gas base without focusing heavily on ground army. you need to squeeze out as many high templars/goons, as well as robo tech/obs, in order to move out and get the critical third gas.
Which is pretty funny because he completely lacked corsairs and a decent ground army, because he got horribly horribly contained without help from the ICC.
For those of you mentioning ways Kal could've done better in battles, Zero wasn't exactly playing well either. One was he had a whole bunch of units and drones dancing around in his base because of bad rallying. His drops could've been better too. If he had used a ling or two to soak up cannon fire, he could've taken out tons of probes and won the game even quicker.
The power of IT was pretty sick. It cost 100/50 IIRC. And on average it was taking out at least two protoss units at a time. ANY two protoss units is an unfair trade for that from the toss standpoint.
That said, kudos to Zero for his map abuse. I love smart players.
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
That's what makes it awesome. Sure Yosh has done mech TvZ before Fantasy, but Fantasy made it popular. Doing a new strategy successfully in a televised match gives other players confidence to use your strategy.
Uhhm, there was also a televised match on Neo Arkanoid I think, NaDa vs a Zerg which involved Infested Terrans.
vs Chojja. It was used towards the end as a humiliation thing, nothing like this. I never said it was the first appearance of an infested terran in a televised match. In that game, it was used as part of an actual strategy.
No, it was against the now-retired, former-eNature (now eSTRO) Cool.
That wasn't the game I was talking about, but thanks for sharing.
Maybe it's not vs Chojja, but I know there was Nada and it was on a space tileset.
You're not maybe thinking of Savior vs GoRush back in GOM MSL? When Savior played as terran? I remember Gorush infesting CCs and I remember space tileset, but I don't remember if he ever mad IT's with it.
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
That's what makes it awesome. Sure Yosh has done mech TvZ before Fantasy, but Fantasy made it popular. Doing a new strategy successfully in a televised match gives other players confidence to use your strategy.
Uhhm, there was also a televised match on Neo Arkanoid I think, NaDa vs a Zerg which involved Infested Terrans.
vs Chojja. It was used towards the end as a humiliation thing, nothing like this. I never said it was the first appearance of an infested terran in a televised match. In that game, it was used as part of an actual strategy.
No, it was against the now-retired, former-eNature (now eSTRO) Cool.
That wasn't the game I was talking about, but thanks for sharing.
Maybe it's not vs Chojja, but I know there was Nada and it was on a space tileset.
You're not maybe thinking of Savior vs GoRush back in GOM MSL? When Savior played as terran? I remember Gorush infesting CCs and I remember space tileset, but I don't remember if he ever mad IT's with it.
Don't think he made ITs, only infested it after focus firing it with mass mutas lol
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
That's what makes it awesome. Sure Yosh has done mech TvZ before Fantasy, but Fantasy made it popular. Doing a new strategy successfully in a televised match gives other players confidence to use your strategy.
Uhhm, there was also a televised match on Neo Arkanoid I think, NaDa vs a Zerg which involved Infested Terrans.
vs Chojja. It was used towards the end as a humiliation thing, nothing like this. I never said it was the first appearance of an infested terran in a televised match. In that game, it was used as part of an actual strategy.
No, it was against the now-retired, former-eNature (now eSTRO) Cool.
On May 08 2009 19:41 amoxicilline wrote: He's just the first who can do it in a televised match.
That's what makes it awesome. Sure Yosh has done mech TvZ before Fantasy, but Fantasy made it popular. Doing a new strategy successfully in a televised match gives other players confidence to use your strategy.
Uhhm, there was also a televised match on Neo Arkanoid I think, NaDa vs a Zerg which involved Infested Terrans.
vs Chojja. It was used towards the end as a humiliation thing, nothing like this. I never said it was the first appearance of an infested terran in a televised match. In that game, it was used as part of an actual strategy.
NaDa vs Chojja was on Nemesis. The Arkanoid game was NaDa vs Cool[fOu].
This one. The game where Chojja flew fleets of scourge around for ages trying to take out a flying CC and infest it rather than just win the game.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/SilverskY/BacchusOSLBanner.jpg)
) but I hope the games are exciting! This is one of the Ro36's most intriguing groups!![[image loading]](http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=electricironf.jpg)
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