EPTOn November 04 2008 03:28 Zoler wrote:
More pages!!!!
gogoogogoogog
More pages!!!!
gogoogogoogog
WHATS GOOD ZOLER
:D
[OSL] Grand Final: Fantasy v Stork - Page 104
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
WHATS GOOD ZOLER :D | ||
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cba
Australia94 Posts
On November 01 2008 20:26 Vivi57 wrote: early scout? no cheese? cheese? for your information, this post back in page 67 (i think) is the 1337th post in this giant thread | ||
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dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
his wins over GGPlay kinda shows that hes somewhat rusty in micro and game sense. ie. game 1 was just poor play. he scouted the cheese and still managed to lose... *sigh* | ||
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zgl
United States1055 Posts
Fantasy expected the cheese, yet he chose not to wall in, and wasted a lot of mining time using SCVs to take out the gateway that Stork was going to cancel. It's not like Stork created a unique situation and forced Fantasy to make mistakes :-/ | ||
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
On November 04 2008 15:24 zgl wrote: Fantasy was surprisingly close to winning, considering the skill + experience gap. I thought that game 1 was the only dud; the rest of the games were great. Fantasy expected the cheese, yet he chose not to wall in, and wasted a lot of mining time using SCVs to take out the gateway that Stork was going to cancel. It's not like Stork created a unique situation and forced Fantasy to make mistakes :-/ Fantasy was so stuck on countering the rush with that SCV kill build. He used it against backho and thats all he practiced it with I suppose. Though, he still needs to add Goliaths and Sci Vessels to his mid-late game army against Protoss before he is ready to be set off to the next finals. | ||
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[X]Ken_D
United States4650 Posts
Fantasy said 3-0 because he expected Stork to not be able to defend his early pushes. Stork stopped it everytime except on Return of the King where Fantasy just camp the high ground. By the 5th game, Stork expected early agressive push and was prepared with his 23809238 speed zealots. Fantasy's ZvT isn't so great. Like Savior said, GGPlay just wasn't use to not seeing mech build for so long. When Fantasy went m&m, GGPlay rip Fantasy apart. Fantasy's proleague game are so-so. Unless Fantasy's game improve, this may be his last final. Great Starleague champions like Stork, Jaedong, and Savior is that they overcome major disadvantage like maps. Congratulation to Stork. | ||
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
On November 04 2008 17:09 [X]Ken_D wrote: There is so much Terran can do to Protoss on those maps. Except Stork had beaten Fantasy on that map before. It takes someone who deserves to be in the Finals to do what Fantasy did on that map. People also need to stop taking Savior's word on mech build as Jesus himself said it. For one, Savior's lost to the Mech build numerous times himself, ffs he lost to it while Boxer was still in Ace and did it to him. Fantasies build emphasizes much more on vulture's and valks before swapping to more goliaths (sans plasma) and that is what made his unique. When Savior beat Midas with it, it was because Midas totally misused the build on a shitty to mech onmap. | ||
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Pangolin
United States1035 Posts
On November 04 2008 17:33 Railz wrote: People also need to stop taking Savior's word on mech build as Jesus himself said it. I'm confused, are you trying to say that Savior isn't Jesus. | ||
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zgl
United States1055 Posts
On November 04 2008 17:09 [X]Ken_D wrote: The score 3-2 can be misleading. Skillwise in that matchup, I think Stork is so much better than Fantasy. The OSL finals confirms it for me. I didn't think Stork's chances are high to win on Plasma and Return of the King. There is so much Terran can do to Protoss on those maps. Fantasy said 3-0 because he expected Stork to not be able to defend his early pushes. Stork stopped it everytime except on Return of the King where Fantasy just camp the high ground. By the 5th game, Stork expected early agressive push and was prepared with his 23809238 speed zealots. Fantasy's ZvT isn't so great. Like Savior said, GGPlay just wasn't use to not seeing mech build for so long. When Fantasy went m&m, GGPlay rip Fantasy apart. Fantasy's proleague game are so-so. Unless Fantasy's game improve, this may be his last final. Great Starleague champions like Stork, Jaedong, and Savior is that they overcome major disadvantage like maps. Congratulation to Stork. I agree that Stork is significantly more skilled than Fantasy. But some of your evidence/analysis of the match I find puzzling. Stork said his best map was Plasma, and he would have liked to play on it twice. The deciding factors in the games weren't really early aggressive pushes. Pushes were more consequences of the game flow. For example, in game 2, Fantasy knew he was way behind after the DT and went for essentially an all-in timing attack. In game 3, Fantasy knew he was way ahead after killing the reaver without losing tanks, so he used that advantage to contain Stork. In game 5, Fantasy was again behind from the very begining (gas steal and losing first tank), so his 6fact (iirc) push was very late... don't think this qualifies as an early aggressive push. Also, Stork did not have to overcome map disadvantage in this final -_- His only disadvantage was his nerves... which he finally overcame. | ||
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Substandard
Italy270 Posts
Still i definitly agree that stork is the more skilled player and i think he showed it in the finals overall. About Fantasy imho we'll have to see how he does in the upcoming games. It's entierly possible that he was just riding on the wave of his successes to the finals or he'll may come out of it as a genuinly strong player. As i wrote in the Osl Awards thread, i dont think he'll be able to stay consistently at the top but at this point it's just a guess. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10830 Posts
I know, the last final was a 3-0 rape, as rape as a rape can be. But somehow ZvP just makes more exciting games and the stuff showed in the last final was just to cool... I all the time was like WTF is he really doing this? (WTF 5 pool, WTF dronedrill, WTF Guardians, WTF Mass Terrors, WTF Guardians, WTF Masscows of doom)... The Stork vs Fantasy finals while closer were not that exciting, the tension was not build up from the play of the competitors it was just build up from the standing and from storks history... Most of the single games were rather clear, one won clearly or lost clearly... But boy, the round of 16 was awesome :p. | ||
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Piano
Korea (South)401 Posts
nice going stork! really enjoyed those OSL games | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
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Simplistik
2094 Posts
On November 04 2008 18:29 Velr wrote: Is anyone else thinking that this OSL was way better than the last except for the finals? I know, the last final was a 3-0 rape, as rape as a rape can be. But somehow ZvP just makes more exciting games and the stuff showed in the last final was just to cool... I all the time was like WTF is he really doing this? (WTF 5 pool, WTF dronedrill, WTF Guardians, WTF Mass Terrors, WTF Guardians, WTF Masscows of doom)... The Stork vs Fantasy finals while closer were not that exciting, the tension was not build up from the play of the competitors it was just build up from the standing and from storks history... Most of the single games were rather clear, one won clearly or lost clearly... But boy, the round of 16 was awesome :p. I fully expected Stork to win but I had some hope for Fantasy if only he could win one of the first two games. Sadly Stork just walked over him. When Fantasy repelled the Reaver in game 3 I was hanging on the edge of my seat. The contain was quite tense too with Stork's reaver shuttle going around and him massing up on Zeals. Then Plasma. Stork is supposedly great on Plasma, but Fantasy build-ordered him. Nice. Stork's face at the end of game 4 is what made it all interesting for me. He looked beaten. And I thought to myself: COME ON! Finally game 5 had a tense beginning and hinged on a few battles. Fantasy actually looked quite like Boxer there, not giving up until the end. | ||
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
On November 04 2008 18:29 Velr wrote: Finally game 5 had a tense beginning and hinged on a few battles. Fantasy actually looked quite like Boxer there, not giving up until the end. Looked more like oov with a hidden expansion. He had too much to comeback from after he lost his army twice from mis-timed. | ||
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stepmos(th)
Thailand5 Posts
cause stork is master in t v p and especially in long game | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On November 04 2008 17:09 [X]Ken_D wrote: The score 3-2 can be misleading. Skillwise in that matchup, I think Stork is so much better than Fantasy. The OSL finals confirms it for me. I didn't think Stork's chances are high to win on Plasma and Return of the King. There is so much Terran can do to Protoss on those maps. Fantasy said 3-0 because he expected Stork to not be able to defend his early pushes. Stork stopped it everytime except on Return of the King where Fantasy just camp the high ground. By the 5th game, Stork expected early agressive push and was prepared with his 23809238 speed zealots. Fantasy's ZvT isn't so great. Like Savior said, GGPlay just wasn't use to not seeing mech build for so long. When Fantasy went m&m, GGPlay rip Fantasy apart. Fantasy's proleague game are so-so. Unless Fantasy's game improve, this may be his last final. Great Starleague champions like Stork, Jaedong, and Savior is that they overcome major disadvantage like maps. Congratulation to Stork. If you want to break it down game-by-game, it basically comes down to this. Game 1: Stork does a cute proxy, Fantasy makes the worst decision possible against it in the spur of the moment(aiming for a gateway that Stork would eventually have had to cancel anyway). Stork BO + micro win. You can see the difference between Stork micro vs. Fantasy's. Game 2: Stork won through just RIDICULOUS micro with the DT. Once that's done, he held the advantage by expanding again and rolled Fantasy's push. Stork just outplayed Fantasy. Game 3: Once Stork's shuttle/reaver got killed off without killing anything, he was dead in the water. There was no chance of him surviving Fantasy's push without the reaver. Fantasy micro + vulture play win. Game 4: BO win for fantasy. Nuff said. Game 5: Once Fantasy's tank got sniped, Stork pounced on the advantage. Expanded immediately and contained Fantasy. He had the advantage the whole game, because he could time his attacks perfectly whenever Fantasy moves out, and has the army to do it with an extra base. Fantasy's mistake with tank + Stork's skill won. So in the end, micro cost each player a game. BO cost each player a game. So it's not as overwhelming for Stork as one may think. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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