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MSL Semifinal B fOrGG vs Flash - Page 22

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
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Atrioc
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1866 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-17 16:59:32
July 17 2008 16:59 GMT
#421
maybe the entire MSL is a series of thrown games cleverly disguised as actual competition, just so JAEDONG the mastermind of fixing games can win an MSL

*edit*

also lawl, forgg > flash?
i wasnt expecting that
Writerman what
.risingdragoon
Profile Joined January 2008
United States3021 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-17 17:07:30
July 17 2008 17:03 GMT
#422
On July 17 2008 23:25 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2008 22:53 Southlight wrote:
On July 17 2008 22:40 IdrA wrote:
flash bio rushes bisu twice and hes a cheesy newb who cant win a straight game
july allins best twice and he has sense of star

he found the gaping hole in best game and exploited it, he earned his win and its pretty cool he got the golden mouse and all but sorry, 5 pooling and drone drilling is not brilliance or sense of star or anything of the sort.


I think the difference here is that July was already a relatively accomplished overall player. Sure he probably can't keep up with the pure mechanics of today's players, but he's not too shabby, as evidenced by game 3.

On the other hand, when Flash pulled off the double cheeseburger, he was fresh off of what amounts to a hard-fought win over an uninspiring Odin and an epic collapse against ROKAF Boxer, who's definitely not who you think of when you think "powerful straight-up gameplay."

The best example at this point would be Boxer, but the simple argument for that is that he's Boxer, and he MADE cheese what it is, so he gets a "free pass" so to speak. He and Nal_Ra are probably the only two players right now where people actually watch their games in order to see what sort of brilliant, map-specific cheese they might have come up with.

that was my point, everything is based on popular opinion of the players. a popular player cheeses and its not cheese, its brilliant strategy. someone unknown or disliked cheeses and theye allining newbies.

5 pool is cheese, whether you're D rank iccup or a golden mouse winner


But the thing is strategies like 5-pool, drone drill, and bunker rush are also affected by popular opinion. They're as legitimate as any other strategy with their own risk/reward. Especially in a case where they'd clearly work, then they oughta be used!

And yet they're called cheese instead and elicit lame attacks on player's other abilities. I mean, I understand if a newbie pulls one over a pro, but this is July ffs. Can you serious tell me with a straight face that July's macro slouches?

Look, if you're the better player, scout it, defend it, counter it, even execute it yourself, especially in a BO5 where the better is suppose to win. And apparently he did.
......::::........::::........::::........::::........::::.......::::.......::::... Up☆MaGiC ...::::.......::::.......::::........::::........::::........::::........
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
July 17 2008 17:04 GMT
#423
whooo Park JiSu fightingggggg
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
July 17 2008 17:08 GMT
#424
On July 18 2008 00:44 Southlight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2008 00:24 OneOther wrote:
mental fortitude to 5 pool? What the hell...


You're joking, right? I don't think too many people would be able to go up there and 5-pool someone, unless it was just for the novelty. Despite the seemingly relatively high success-rate of 5 pool in the pro-scene (Jju, July, Luxury, etc.), it seems like not a whole lot of people actually even TRY it, much less in such a high-pressure situation.


No, I am not joking. 5 pool is 5 pool. It doesn't take much "mental fortitude" to 5 pool. It's either a quick or a quick loss, to the hell with it.
.risingdragoon
Profile Joined January 2008
United States3021 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-17 17:15:40
July 17 2008 17:13 GMT
#425
Let's put it like this:

Cheese to me is all-in, it's do or fail. When cheese fails, the "cheeser" ought to lose. So when a cheese fails and the "cheeser" still wins, it's not the cheese, it's the other player and his lack of "mental fortitude" to me.

If you get unnerved and can't hold your water steady, you lose baby!
......::::........::::........::::........::::........::::.......::::.......::::... Up☆MaGiC ...::::.......::::.......::::........::::........::::........::::........
Sigrun
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1655 Posts
July 17 2008 17:19 GMT
#426
I guess the finals will be interesting, as both players know each other's play styles really well, so the weaker one might actually just step up his game to the next level.


We all saw what happened in the Iris vs Savior series.
Graphics
ohhsuup
Profile Joined July 2008
64 Posts
July 17 2008 17:21 GMT
#427
WOW ALL I CAN SAY IS FUCK FORGG
Ma Jae Yoon Fighting
ohhsuup
Profile Joined July 2008
64 Posts
July 17 2008 17:23 GMT
#428
jaedong is going to own forgg so hard it won't even be funny. im not watching finals now -_-
Ma Jae Yoon Fighting
ohhsuup
Profile Joined July 2008
64 Posts
July 17 2008 17:23 GMT
#429
i think jaedong planned this from the start. fucking bastard.
Ma Jae Yoon Fighting
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
July 17 2008 17:25 GMT
#430
On July 18 2008 02:03 .risingdragoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2008 23:25 IdrA wrote:
On July 17 2008 22:53 Southlight wrote:
On July 17 2008 22:40 IdrA wrote:
flash bio rushes bisu twice and hes a cheesy newb who cant win a straight game
july allins best twice and he has sense of star

he found the gaping hole in best game and exploited it, he earned his win and its pretty cool he got the golden mouse and all but sorry, 5 pooling and drone drilling is not brilliance or sense of star or anything of the sort.


I think the difference here is that July was already a relatively accomplished overall player. Sure he probably can't keep up with the pure mechanics of today's players, but he's not too shabby, as evidenced by game 3.

On the other hand, when Flash pulled off the double cheeseburger, he was fresh off of what amounts to a hard-fought win over an uninspiring Odin and an epic collapse against ROKAF Boxer, who's definitely not who you think of when you think "powerful straight-up gameplay."

The best example at this point would be Boxer, but the simple argument for that is that he's Boxer, and he MADE cheese what it is, so he gets a "free pass" so to speak. He and Nal_Ra are probably the only two players right now where people actually watch their games in order to see what sort of brilliant, map-specific cheese they might have come up with.

that was my point, everything is based on popular opinion of the players. a popular player cheeses and its not cheese, its brilliant strategy. someone unknown or disliked cheeses and theye allining newbies.

5 pool is cheese, whether you're D rank iccup or a golden mouse winner


But the thing is strategies like 5-pool, drone drill, and bunker rush are also affected by popular opinion. They're as legitimate as any other strategy with their own risk/reward. Especially in a case where they'd clearly work, then they oughta be used!

And yet they're called cheese instead and elicit lame attacks on player's other abilities. I mean, I understand if a newbie pulls one over a pro, but this is July ffs. Can you serious tell me with a straight face that July's macro slouches?

Look, if you're the better player, scout it, defend it, counter it, even execute it yourself, especially in a BO5 where the better is suppose to win. And apparently he did.

you tell yourself that while you take wins from players 4 ranks better than you with a 5 pool?
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
ohhsuup
Profile Joined July 2008
64 Posts
July 17 2008 17:27 GMT
#431
On (Z)July 17 2008 19:46 ShloobeR wrote:
(P)BackHo and (T)fOrGG should form a new team


I second this. They should be called "bitches who are retarded" or something along those lines. fucking that scrub mind can join too. fuck (T)fOrGG. fuck the finals (Z)Jaedong will take it or he sucks at starcraft
Ma Jae Yoon Fighting
ohhsuup
Profile Joined July 2008
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-17 17:33:12
July 17 2008 17:31 GMT
#432
i just think (T)fOrGG is a fucking bitch because he has no chance in hell to beat (Z)Jaedong in the finals and i think he was jealous that (T)Flash was supposed to meet jaedong so he thought up a plan to thwart this by cheesing him. he's a greedy little bastard who will lose 1-3 to (Z)Jaedong in the finals. no doubt. fuck (T)fOrGG

edit: FUCK FORGG!!!!!
Ma Jae Yoon Fighting
kirtar111
Profile Joined May 2007
United States72 Posts
July 17 2008 17:32 GMT
#433
if jaedong doesn't take this, professional starcraft is hopeless.
Jogoling
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
July 17 2008 17:33 GMT
#434
On July 18 2008 02:25 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2008 02:03 .risingdragoon wrote:
On July 17 2008 23:25 IdrA wrote:
On July 17 2008 22:53 Southlight wrote:
On July 17 2008 22:40 IdrA wrote:
flash bio rushes bisu twice and hes a cheesy newb who cant win a straight game
july allins best twice and he has sense of star

he found the gaping hole in best game and exploited it, he earned his win and its pretty cool he got the golden mouse and all but sorry, 5 pooling and drone drilling is not brilliance or sense of star or anything of the sort.


I think the difference here is that July was already a relatively accomplished overall player. Sure he probably can't keep up with the pure mechanics of today's players, but he's not too shabby, as evidenced by game 3.

On the other hand, when Flash pulled off the double cheeseburger, he was fresh off of what amounts to a hard-fought win over an uninspiring Odin and an epic collapse against ROKAF Boxer, who's definitely not who you think of when you think "powerful straight-up gameplay."

The best example at this point would be Boxer, but the simple argument for that is that he's Boxer, and he MADE cheese what it is, so he gets a "free pass" so to speak. He and Nal_Ra are probably the only two players right now where people actually watch their games in order to see what sort of brilliant, map-specific cheese they might have come up with.

that was my point, everything is based on popular opinion of the players. a popular player cheeses and its not cheese, its brilliant strategy. someone unknown or disliked cheeses and theye allining newbies.

5 pool is cheese, whether you're D rank iccup or a golden mouse winner


But the thing is strategies like 5-pool, drone drill, and bunker rush are also affected by popular opinion. They're as legitimate as any other strategy with their own risk/reward. Especially in a case where they'd clearly work, then they oughta be used!

And yet they're called cheese instead and elicit lame attacks on player's other abilities. I mean, I understand if a newbie pulls one over a pro, but this is July ffs. Can you serious tell me with a straight face that July's macro slouches?

Look, if you're the better player, scout it, defend it, counter it, even execute it yourself, especially in a BO5 where the better is suppose to win. And apparently he did.

you tell yourself that while you take wins from players 4 ranks better than you with a 5 pool?

No, I tell myself that when I lose to players my rank with a 4/5 pool. Then I cry myself to sleep.

Seriousy though, I like cheeses. It means a fast paced micro game, and we don't get enough of those.
Force staff is the best item in the game.
.risingdragoon
Profile Joined January 2008
United States3021 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-17 17:41:57
July 17 2008 17:38 GMT
#435
On July 18 2008 02:25 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2008 02:03 .risingdragoon wrote:
On July 17 2008 23:25 IdrA wrote:
On July 17 2008 22:53 Southlight wrote:
On July 17 2008 22:40 IdrA wrote:
flash bio rushes bisu twice and hes a cheesy newb who cant win a straight game
july allins best twice and he has sense of star

he found the gaping hole in best game and exploited it, he earned his win and its pretty cool he got the golden mouse and all but sorry, 5 pooling and drone drilling is not brilliance or sense of star or anything of the sort.


I think the difference here is that July was already a relatively accomplished overall player. Sure he probably can't keep up with the pure mechanics of today's players, but he's not too shabby, as evidenced by game 3.

On the other hand, when Flash pulled off the double cheeseburger, he was fresh off of what amounts to a hard-fought win over an uninspiring Odin and an epic collapse against ROKAF Boxer, who's definitely not who you think of when you think "powerful straight-up gameplay."

The best example at this point would be Boxer, but the simple argument for that is that he's Boxer, and he MADE cheese what it is, so he gets a "free pass" so to speak. He and Nal_Ra are probably the only two players right now where people actually watch their games in order to see what sort of brilliant, map-specific cheese they might have come up with.

that was my point, everything is based on popular opinion of the players. a popular player cheeses and its not cheese, its brilliant strategy. someone unknown or disliked cheeses and theye allining newbies.

5 pool is cheese, whether you're D rank iccup or a golden mouse winner


But the thing is strategies like 5-pool, drone drill, and bunker rush are also affected by popular opinion. They're as legitimate as any other strategy with their own risk/reward. Especially in a case where they'd clearly work, then they oughta be used!

And yet they're called cheese instead and elicit lame attacks on player's other abilities. I mean, I understand if a newbie pulls one over a pro, but this is July ffs. Can you serious tell me with a straight face that July's macro slouches?

Look, if you're the better player, scout it, defend it, counter it, even execute it yourself, especially in a BO5 where the better is suppose to win. And apparently he did.

you tell yourself that while you take wins from players 4 ranks better than you with a 5 pool?


So? It's not gonna work every time. Everyone knows you can't rely on cheese to win games consistently.

I mean, I'm baffled when people made a big deal about July. This is the guy that all-out ling rushed OOv when he had firebats blocking his choke. Fucking July!
......::::........::::........::::........::::........::::.......::::.......::::... Up☆MaGiC ...::::.......::::.......::::........::::........::::........::::........
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
July 17 2008 17:41 GMT
#436
So? It's not gonna work every time. Everyone knows you can't rely on cheese to win games consistently

thats the entire point... you cant rely on it, its not based on skill. its just an easy way to get a win you dont deserve vs someone you arent likely to beat anyway.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
ohhsuup
Profile Joined July 2008
64 Posts
July 17 2008 17:42 GMT
#437
On July 18 2008 02:38 .risingdragoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2008 02:25 IdrA wrote:
On July 18 2008 02:03 .risingdragoon wrote:
On July 17 2008 23:25 IdrA wrote:
On July 17 2008 22:53 Southlight wrote:
On July 17 2008 22:40 IdrA wrote:
flash bio rushes bisu twice and hes a cheesy newb who cant win a straight game
july allins best twice and he has sense of star

he found the gaping hole in best game and exploited it, he earned his win and its pretty cool he got the golden mouse and all but sorry, 5 pooling and drone drilling is not brilliance or sense of star or anything of the sort.


I think the difference here is that July was already a relatively accomplished overall player. Sure he probably can't keep up with the pure mechanics of today's players, but he's not too shabby, as evidenced by game 3.

On the other hand, when Flash pulled off the double cheeseburger, he was fresh off of what amounts to a hard-fought win over an uninspiring Odin and an epic collapse against ROKAF Boxer, who's definitely not who you think of when you think "powerful straight-up gameplay."

The best example at this point would be Boxer, but the simple argument for that is that he's Boxer, and he MADE cheese what it is, so he gets a "free pass" so to speak. He and Nal_Ra are probably the only two players right now where people actually watch their games in order to see what sort of brilliant, map-specific cheese they might have come up with.

that was my point, everything is based on popular opinion of the players. a popular player cheeses and its not cheese, its brilliant strategy. someone unknown or disliked cheeses and theye allining newbies.

5 pool is cheese, whether you're D rank iccup or a golden mouse winner


But the thing is strategies like 5-pool, drone drill, and bunker rush are also affected by popular opinion. They're as legitimate as any other strategy with their own risk/reward. Especially in a case where they'd clearly work, then they oughta be used!

And yet they're called cheese instead and elicit lame attacks on player's other abilities. I mean, I understand if a newbie pulls one over a pro, but this is July ffs. Can you serious tell me with a straight face that July's macro slouches?

Look, if you're the better player, scout it, defend it, counter it, even execute it yourself, especially in a BO5 where the better is suppose to win. And apparently he did.

you tell yourself that while you take wins from players 4 ranks better than you with a 5 pool?


So? It's not gonna work every time. Everyone knows you can't rely on cheese to win games consistently.

I mean, I'm baffled when people made a big deal about July. This is the guy that ling rushed OOv when he had firebats blocking his choke. Fucking July!


yeah that's all true. cheeses also require luck, and sometimes players get lucky or unlucky.
but in all seriousness, fuck forgg
Ma Jae Yoon Fighting
.risingdragoon
Profile Joined January 2008
United States3021 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-17 18:02:35
July 17 2008 17:43 GMT
#438
On July 18 2008 02:41 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
So? It's not gonna work every time. Everyone knows you can't rely on cheese to win games consistently

thats the entire point... you cant rely on it, its not based on skill. its just an easy way to get a win you dont deserve vs someone you arent likely to beat anyway.


So what happens when a pro cheeses a newb? Does your point still stick?

It's not the strategy itself dude. It comes down to who pulls it out the bag. The more popular player tends to be seasoned vet like Boxer or July, who weigh their chances carefully and clearly aren't desperate for all-in wins, especially if they cheese in a MU that they are strong in.

Who's a vet that is desperate? Gorush and his goddamned ZvP all-ins.
......::::........::::........::::........::::........::::.......::::.......::::... Up☆MaGiC ...::::.......::::.......::::........::::........::::........::::........
Dahlia...
Profile Joined September 2005
United States409 Posts
July 17 2008 17:48 GMT
#439
Gj ForGG, hope he has much cheese for jaedong

i was one of the 28
ohhsuup
Profile Joined July 2008
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-17 17:52:34
July 17 2008 17:48 GMT
#440
On (Z)July 18 2008 02:41 (T)IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
So? It's not gonna work every time. Everyone knows you can't rely on cheese to win games consistently

thats the entire point... you cant rely on it, its not based on skill. its just an easy way to get a win you dont deserve vs someone you arent likely to beat anyway.


well yeah but the worst part is that it was fucking (T)fOrGG cheesing (T)Flash in a fucking semifinal game of a tournament that (T)fOrGG isn't going to win anyway. back when (T)Flash cheese the shit outa people it was as big of a deal because he didn't take people out on the brink of an insanely tight final. he took out (P)Bisu in a bo3 early on in an OSL that (P)Bisu might not have reached the finals to anyway. (T)Flash was probably so fucking sure he was going to beat (T)fOrGG that he didn't practice that much, and instead started practicing against zerg. fucking (T)fOrGG had to be a little cunt and do some unexpected shit, rob all of us, and most people who watch starcraft, of one of the most anticipated finals ever, since (T)Flash and (Z)Jaedong have already played each other in 3 series and are equal in games against each other. i was really really hoping for the clutchest player ever vs the most dominant player ever in the most important tournament of the year and now we, all of us, can't watch it thanks to a little jealous bitch named (T)fOrGG.

edit:
......seriously flash?
Ma Jae Yoon Fighting
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