Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the biggest event in progaming. The OSL finals. Get ready for an epic TvP series as these two players are the best for their respective races. Stork and Flash showed us a great series in the GSI finals where Flash prevailed with his new goliath heavy build. An awesome preview to get us ready for the real deal. THE OSL FINAAAAALS!!!
HYPE video from Baezzi:
Flash has been thrown around by Stork in the previous two starleagues but the Flash of today is a completely different player. Lately he has exploded with dominating play rolling Bacchus Starleague and GSI. He is Calm and precise. He has perfect mechanics, timing, and game sence. He is definitely the best Terran at the moment. As YellOw best put it:
On January 28 2008 09:53 FConnectionUK wrote: Yell0w: When I watch Flash play the game, without pretense, I'm amazed. Simply amazing. I've never seen anyone who can manage the eco as well as he does. Every eco falls into perfect timing. PERFECT timing. Not only that, it seems like he's spending all his eco, yet he always have spare Mineral to expand more...
Yell0w: In any given circumstance, he reads them all. He's not just good at playing the game... He knows how to win the game.
Only six terrans have won the OSL. This is the most elite group for any Terran to join. Will Flash be the lucky number ?
Stork has dominated Flash in the past. He beat him 3-0 in the Daum OSL 3'rd place series and in the Ever OSL round of 8. But now that Flash is a much stronger player, will Stork be able to defeat him with his best PvT in progaming? In the GSI series the players were evenly matched. However Stork made some mistakes? Will Stork be able to overcome the mental challenge? Will he come onto the stage with confidence and the mindset of a winner? We shall find out!
Wtf lol Why put the Jaedong quote onto Flash. I'm sure Tasteless said plenty of similiar things about Flash during GSI that you could have quoted without like completely misattributing one.
Anyway rooting for Flash so we can see the Flash/Jaedong rivalry emerge and hopefully split the starleagues for the next year or so.
Both such great players, shame Stork is a protoss so I have to cheer against him~.. But I'm 100% sure it won't be easy for either player, most likely we'll see a 3-2.
There's a limit to how much choke toss can fail... I believe stork has reached that limit, no more screwing around.. its time for payback. You've done it to bisu, now its flash's turn... GO STORK, rape that chobo.
On March 15 2008 14:58 Atrioc wrote: Wtf lol Why put the Jaedong quote onto Flash. I'm sure Tasteless said plenty of similiar things about Flash during GSI that you could have quoted without like completely misattributing one.
Anyway rooting for Flash so we can see the Flash/Jaedong rivalry emerge and hopefully split the starleagues for the next year or so.
Flash will probably win because Stork will forget something, goon range, his dick, or maybe...his confidence. When he said, "I'm nervous when I play him," he basically killed himself.
On March 15 2008 14:58 Atrioc wrote: Wtf lol Why put the Jaedong quote onto Flash. I'm sure Tasteless said plenty of similiar things about Flash during GSI that you could have quoted without like completely misattributing one.
Anyway rooting for Flash so we can see the Flash/Jaedong rivalry emerge and hopefully split the starleagues for the next year or so.
What Jaedong quote? am I missing something?
The quote in the OP about yellow saying how good flash is was really about jaedong, he just switched names.
On GSI forums Carlo wrote: and of course.. how could i forgot the awesome korean progamers. all KOREAN. all PROGAMERS. flash u are the man and i am flash fan. and yeah! stork is good! and tasteless is an awesome enwglish commentator!
On March 15 2008 14:58 Atrioc wrote: Wtf lol Why put the Jaedong quote onto Flash. I'm sure Tasteless said plenty of similiar things about Flash during GSI that you could have quoted without like completely misattributing one.
Anyway rooting for Flash so we can see the Flash/Jaedong rivalry emerge and hopefully split the starleagues for the next year or so.
What Jaedong quote? am I missing something?
The quote in the OP about yellow saying how good flash is was really about jaedong, he just switched names.
Yell0w: In any given circumstance, he reads them all. He's not just good at playing the game... He knows how to win the game.
Most imbalanced TvP map of all Time 5 of those wins are from flash 12-2 on the map, only losses coming from Jaedong and Pusan when the map was just announced If anything, Flash has mastered this map
As for Katrina, it suffers from much more than just imbalanced maps. It's a map that has forced a lack of thinking from both sides. Terran couldn't counter carriers, and now no Protoss can even think of a counter to Flash on that map (well, Bisu arguably pulled one, Flash simply played better). Flash was the one to think up an answer and the way a lot of Protoss play that map now, they damn well deserve to get slammed with 50%:50% PvT stats on Katrina by the end of it's use.
Stork better take the arbiter play that Bisu showed can win advantages over Flash and all that has worked for him in his career and apply it. There won't be a better chance for Stork to crush his reputation for second places and right now, as the 'king' of PvT, Stork must demonstrate that he can deal with a level of play no other Protoss (except arguably Bisu) has shown an answer to, then one-up that by beating it comprehensively.
Once again, I'm rediculously pumped for these games. The best PvT and TvP players to ever play the game...sweeet. Lets see if Stork has figured Flash out since GSI. I personally don't think so. GO FLASH.
On March 15 2008 17:30 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Once again, I'm rediculously pumped for these games. The best PvT and TvP players to ever play the game...sweeet. Lets see if Stork has figured Flash out since GSI. I personally don't think so. GO FLASH.
Probably an epic rivalry like between BoxeR and Garimto :O
The weakness of Flashs Style is the Dark Templar. He got academy fast, yes.. but he seems to like to fast expand with siege, so Stork could earn an advantage with fast darks o_O
Flash was always known for bringing sth new. Kinda Boxerish. I really hope he has sth prepared for today. If not, I have the fealing Stork that has prepared a build to counter Flashs GSI build.
I have the Daum Player now exactly where do you go when it hits live? I open the Daum player and find it there or do I go to the website and hit "view live" like in GSI?
my liquibet points are on flash daum player right? I'm having trouble getting it up and runninng *cross fingers and hopes the stream is good during the games *
On March 15 2008 18:17 G.s)NarutO wrote: I hope we see all these progamers back in Sc2
We will. But we will also see a lot of white players who are just as good. Serious the foreign talent pool is so deluded by now. The truly great foreign minds of broodwar have been long gone. But they'll be back + there will be new ones. Sc2 will have that kind of draw because it will be relavent enough.
Oh my... Stork looks like he is gonna wet his pants any minute now. Whereas Flash does not look like his usual robot and is actually smiling. Guess who is confident and who is gonna choke? Btw, yaoyuan is working fine right now, and Daum is already lagging. Weird.
On March 15 2008 18:17 G.s)NarutO wrote: I hope we see all these progamers back in Sc2
We will. But we will also see a lot of white players who are just as good. Serious the foreign talent pool is so deluded by now. The truly great foreign minds of broodwar have been long gone. But they'll be back + there will be new ones. Sc2 will have that kind of draw because it will be relavent enough.
I disagree. We will never see a foreign "progamer" in Starcraft 2. Or not as much as you point out here. Koreans will practice 15-16 hours / day from the start.. the experience / skill gap will be huge.. which is good, because I don't like the attitude/manner of foreign players.
On March 15 2008 18:20 CDRdude wrote: Is it starting? Would somebody be so kind as to live report?
There are 3 guys wearing suits speaking korean to each other and occasionally looking forward. They are holding microphones and they appear to be korean in race and national origin. I can't understand them but I'm sure they are wise and entertaining.
On March 15 2008 18:20 CDRdude wrote: Is it starting? Would somebody be so kind as to live report?
There are 3 guys wearing suits speaking korean to each other and occasionally looking forward. They are holding microphones and they appear to be korean in race and national origin. I can't understand them but I'm sure they are wise and entertaining.
im just wondering, is there any special reason why the observer isnt a real observer? i mean i might understand they dont want to use russian tools like advloader, but why just dont let the mapcreators add some observer slots? just curious...
Ok flash sieging at the popular spot. Killing a pylon at nat. Stork not engaging yet. Waiting for reaver. Flash has 4 tanks, some vults and 2 rines there. Stork with 5 goons.
One goons gets taken out. This pust is looking strong!!!
Ok there we go. Flash has 4 factories bulding. 3 almost done. He had a semi contain set up after destorying the protoss nat but wisly retreated before a massive p force arrive back to his nat. Stork is READY TO FUCKING ALL IN ON THE NAT!! Will he do it?
Flash is freaking wall of pure terran sexiness and Storks units melt. Flash instantly counters like a puma and stork GGs as mines surround his tiny goon force.
On March 15 2008 18:39 FragKrag wrote: GOGO FLASH! FOR MY LIQUIBET
Exactly. No passion in it except for the points. Seriously, bring back Nada!
Speak for yourself, I love Flash. Hes amazingly gosu. He's Neo Nada, Xellos, and Boxer
Not neo Boxer, u- uuuh.
Why not? Flash has sick gosu cheese from time to time. Thats the boxer in him.
Well, his TvP > his TvZ. At least record wise. He is also not a micro player and does not have super mnm control. Above average but not Boxer/Casy lvl.
On March 15 2008 18:49 beefhamburger wrote: stork coulda just came in from the mid and flanked the tanks, there were no mines and only about 3 tanks
stork honestly didn't know how to react properly. no FE terran would attack then--and he didn't have an obs up, and he was afraid of potential mines, so he decided to hold out with ferrying goons and waiting for reaver.
Stork had enough goons to stop it as you guys can see in the replay, they were just in the wrong place. It was hard to retake the position behind his wall after he got setup. I like Flash's build this game, it's subtle enough that no one realized how aggressive it was this game. He went FD but didnt research anything in his machine shop until after his 2nd factory. This is what got him those 3 tanks with siege outside of stork's multi at that timing. This is especially strong when you consider that flash has used a much more passive armory build vs stork in their last 4 games together.
I'm rooting for Stork at this point, because that will mean good games, not these 1-sided slaughters. If Stork somehow comes back and wins this, I swear I will lay off liquibet for the rest of the season.
The only thing that redeems this is the fact that Katrina is such a ridiculously silly map. Other than that, this shit reminds me of the something BoxeR would pull in final, no less.
No doubt, it's Stork's fault for not being prepared but bleh.
Even if NaDa did this to win a finals against OOV I would not be proud of the game. BLEH LDSOFL :O
its always funny to see people call cheese "genius" when good players happen to cheese. Im sure when Stork got knocked out in offline prelims to some rnd nub by two 5 pools nobody called it genius.
On March 15 2008 18:59 EtherealDeath wrote: On the other hand, at least now we can have a boxer/yellow type thing in jaedong/flash, only its not a one sided rape :-)
The Boxer/Yellow rivalry was very close actually. Near 50-50.
Stork is the one that needs to play less predictably. Like his PvZ where he 100% goes fast exp cannon/sair, he needs to vary his game style, and more than just from map to map.
On March 15 2008 19:01 diehilde wrote: its always funny to see people call cheese "genius" when good players happen to cheese. Im sure when Stork got knocked out in offline prelims to some rnd nub by two 5 pools nobody called it genius.
Personally, this is completely different. Everyone, and I mean everyone, was gearing up for this match. Flash had just dismantled Stork 2-0 on this map in the GSI using a newfangled build, one that various people have even called a brilliant revolution. Everyone was looking forward to Stork's counter to this, as otherwise Flash was going to stampede over him. Nony himself mentioned that one such counter is to expand like crazy, as Flash's push is late.
Except for Flash, who knew everyone, Stork included, thought this way, and he abused it. You can't even imagine what's going on in Stork's head now, it's absolutely fantastic.
flash must be training really hard, you cant go from being defeated all the time to this level of play without determination and ultra hard practice... i mean just look at pachi's pic
On March 15 2008 19:01 diehilde wrote: its always funny to see people call cheese "genius" when good players happen to cheese. Im sure when Stork got knocked out in offline prelims to some rnd nub by two 5 pools nobody called it genius.
On March 15 2008 19:01 diehilde wrote: its always funny to see people call cheese "genius" when good players happen to cheese. Im sure when Stork got knocked out in offline prelims to some rnd nub by two 5 pools nobody called it genius.
Actually in Flash's case it is genius because you can tell Stork practiced against Flash's fast armory +1 golith build. Flash totally fucked him up with an unexpected cheese, probably the first I've seen on Katrina.
On March 15 2008 19:01 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: If you can't appreciate Flash's Double proxy rax in this game then you do not understand broodwar
yeah and if u cant appreciate the two 5 pools against stork in offline prelims or the 9 pool by jaedong against the emperor in an all-star event your understanding of broodwar is also very limited. what a bs...
On March 15 2008 19:01 diehilde wrote: its always funny to see people call cheese "genius" when good players happen to cheese. Im sure when Stork got knocked out in offline prelims to some rnd nub by two 5 pools nobody called it genius.
You don't understand broodwar. Especially if you're too dense to not see the difference between a perfect brilliant calculative counter to 13 nexus, the most effective build on Katrina. And a "oh god I hope he doesnt stop this because I have no hope of winning straight up" hail mary 5 pool.
What Flash did was a psychologic victory that could only happen because of their recent history, the map, and the mindset stork would be in after the first game. Bias aside this is nothing like a newbie 5 pooling.
@ above: But Flash can/will predict what Stork does. I'm not saying go Nal_rA and make extremely sexy and creative cheeses, I mean just mix a bit of cheese in to catch another player off guard.
Pretty good zealot micro, he takes out 3 of the 4 rines, and starts trying to take out one of the assimiliators, but a tank reinforcement for flash forces a retreat
On March 15 2008 19:16 G.s)NarutO wrote: Seriously why is no one going DT vs Flash? He expands with siege, he has no ebay, he relies on comsat.. which is not that fast.
He opens FD usually based on what he scouts. If theres a POSSIBILITY of DT based on his build reading skills he pumps non stop vults with mine and mines up a shit load which will definiteately hold until comstat comes. The comstat is timed perfectly for dt drop timing. Flash is just rock solid
Stork showing some nice play this game. Picks off a tank with his early goons while taking a nexus slightly before flash as well as adding a robo and a second gate. STork should be pressuring a lot once his first ob is out.
On March 15 2008 19:12 TheTyranid wrote: If game 3 resembles anything like the first 2, this is going to be the lamest finals since Bisu/Savior.
Bisu vs Savior lame? Yeah I should LOL.
If you are a protoss fan it's pretty refreshing to see zerg finally get raped but the quality of the games was shit. Utter SHIT.
I'm not a fan and yeah Game 3 and maybe 1 was exactly shit, but this is important as Bisu tear down the ZvP monster and end of his reign. And Game 2 was pretty good imo.
On March 15 2008 19:12 TheTyranid wrote: If game 3 resembles anything like the first 2, this is going to be the lamest finals since Bisu/Savior.
Bisu vs Savior lame? Yeah I should LOL.
If you are a protoss fan it's pretty refreshing to see zerg finally get raped but the quality of the games was shit. Utter SHIT.
I'm not a fan and yeah Game 3 and maybe 1 was exactly shit, but this is important as Bisu tear down the ZvP monster and end of his reign. And Game 2 was pretty good imo.
As is the case here. A new Terran powerhous emerges. Possibly the next Nada/Oov. Point is, no matter the importance, the game quality is shit in both series.
GREAT GREAT GREAT saturday morning for me here. a bit short but amazing as hell!!
Flash deserved this title so much!! I feel really glad for him! I dont know, how he managed to just steamroll stork with his army. Storks goons looked so many, but he just walked over them without losing a tank!!
On March 15 2008 19:29 Sewi wrote:I dont know, how he managed to just steamroll stork with his army. Storks goons looked so many, but he just walked over them without losing a tank!!
His control that battle superb. I'd .gif it if I knew how :p
I cant believe that all the sudden a player who was hates so much is getting so good and so liked. Not because anyones likes his personality in particular.. but just because he is just THAT good..
"I prepared hard for 1 week with little sleeping, but I couldn't show any of my strategy. Because of my lack of skills, I am sorry for my fans, and I will try harder next time."
On March 15 2008 19:35 Proposal wrote: "I prepared hard for 1 week with little sleeping, but I couldn't show any of my strategy. Because of my lack of skills, I am sorry for my fans, and I will try harder next time."
On March 15 2008 19:40 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: why did they pin the badge to his belly
Because he doesn't have one of the jacket type uniforms. He has a long sleeve T-shirt. If they were to pin it on his chest, that person would have to reach down his shirt to fixate the pin, hence leading to an awkward moment. His belly is most accessible.
I feel so bad for Stork, I don't know what to say. I'm mostly a zerg fan, but I really wanted Stork to finally win a starlelague. He must be so down right now, aside from the fact that he's in tears. He's had nothing to do but practice for this moment, and it turns on him. This must be what it was like when Boxer bunker rushed Yellow 3:0
Stork, I hope you win a starleague one day. You have a new fan here.
On March 15 2008 19:35 ThePhan2m wrote: so what did stork do wrong the first and the third game? seems hard to counter
Am not really that knowledgeable, but,
In game 1, Stork pulled back his dragoons too far. Had he been willing to skirmish or even go for the tanks (two marines and 3 tanks vs 8+ goons O_o) he could have bought himself enough time for dragoon bombing vs siege (as it was, the shuttle came just a bit too late), and he would have been in a stronger flanking position. Also I'm puzzled as to why he tried to fight through the choke where dragoons don't fit. Seems like he panicked.
Game 3, the close positions allowed for a very fast push that his teching left him unprepared for. Was too, as other people mentioned, too predictable. 1 gate gas cyber robotics.
On March 15 2008 20:11 Puosu wrote: mmm Bad bad finals Flash has totally destroyed protoss. I wonder who, if anyone, will come with a way to stop that shit.
Heh, nice dutch there! LOL. I got it a couple days before TLPD launched, I was in charge of linking VODs. Added around 800, and a couple hundred more after it launched. Then I quit the job. But the icon stayed (instead of my previous blue star thingy :-)), I don't mind either way. You're the reason that TLPD vods update is so much easier now.
On March 15 2008 20:31 VioleTAK wrote: Heh, nice dutch there! LOL. I got it a couple days before TLPD launched, I was in charge of linking VODs. Added around 800, and a couple hundred more after it launched. Then I quit the job. But the icon stayed (instead of my previous blue star thingy :-)), I don't mind either way.
Can I have this one too ? or how could I have it ?
On March 15 2008 20:19 VioleTAK wrote: I don't even know who to feel more sorry for. Stork for this finals, or sAviOr... for having to play 7 games against this monster, and nowhere to run.
Haha omg savior savior what are you going to do T.T. Seriously taking even one game is an upset .
I feel so bad for stork too 2nd yellow -_-. He and yellow should make a new team by themselves.
On March 15 2008 20:19 VioleTAK wrote: I don't even know who to feel more sorry for. Stork for this finals, or sAviOr... for having to play 7 games against this monster, and nowhere to run.
What a disappointment! I'd been waiting for a crazily intense much-up and received nothing but a total annihilation by Flash! Hope Stork will be able to overcome this sensational defeat to remain one of the most elite Tosses. If he follows Savior's steps downhill that will definitely be a major loss for Korean e-sport in general and for us SC fans in particular! Anyway, congratulations Flash.
On March 15 2008 23:24 NonY[rC] wrote: wowow stork you so bad. i bet there are AT LEAST 5 protoss that could have won that bo5
I wonder which 5 tosses can take a bo5 from Flash atm....It was a widely accepted opinion that Stork has the best PvT and yet he is annihilated.
i don't think so dude. maybe a season or 2 ago that was the general consensus, but not now. he is a great pvt straight up, but he lacks strategy and flare. as already noted, he is weak at critical points in tournaments too eg vs iris he failed to adapt to same strat 3 times running, as well as the string of finals losses.
on any note, you'd have to put anytime above in terms of pvt. bisu is pimp, but just way too inconsistent.
On March 15 2008 23:24 NonY[rC] wrote: wowow stork you so bad. i bet there are AT LEAST 5 protoss that could have won that bo5
I wonder which 5 tosses can take a bo5 from Flash atm....It was a widely accepted opinion that Stork has the best PvT and yet he is annihilated.
i don't think so dude. maybe a season or 2 ago that was the general consensus, but not now. he is a great pvt straight up, but he lacks strategy and flare. as already noted, he is weak at critical points in tournaments too eg vs iris he failed to adapt to same strat 3 times running, as well as the string of finals losses.
on any note, you'd have to put anytime above in terms of pvt. bisu is pimp, but just way too inconsistent.
True, but Flash has stomped both Bisu and Anytime recently, and I had hope in Stork's pvt after gsi I mean Iris 2-0 Bisu, Stork 3-0 Iris, 2-3 Flash in a very close series. Oh well
On March 15 2008 23:24 NonY[rC] wrote: wowow stork you so bad. i bet there are AT LEAST 5 protoss that could have won that bo5
I wonder which 5 tosses can take a bo5 from Flash atm....It was a widely accepted opinion that Stork has the best PvT and yet he is annihilated.
i don't think so dude. maybe a season or 2 ago that was the general consensus, but not now. he is a great pvt straight up, but he lacks strategy and flare. as already noted, he is weak at critical points in tournaments too eg vs iris he failed to adapt to same strat 3 times running, as well as the string of finals losses.
on any note, you'd have to put anytime above in terms of pvt. bisu is pimp, but just way too inconsistent.
True, but Flash has stomped both Bisu and Anytime recently, and I had hope in Stork's pvt after gsi I mean Iris 2-0 Bisu, Stork 3-0 Iris, 2-3 Flash in a very close series. Oh well
Anytime did much better vs Flash than Stork in the GSL. Bisu did much better vs Flash in the OSL. Cho'r'ke just seriously got raped, especially in the last game - you can tell he was playing well due to his harass, but Flash is seriously on another level.
Although, in all honesty, I do believe Jaedong is on that same level.
Anytime did much better vs Flash than Stork in the GSL. Bisu did much better vs Flash in the OSL. Cho'r'ke just seriously got raped, especially in the last game - you can tell he was playing well due to his harass, but Flash is seriously on another level.
Although, in all honesty, I do believe Jaedong is on that same level.
I actually hated Stork's micro in todays 3rd game, when Flash pushed out Stork went for the Marines/Vultures instead of targeting a single Tank that got free fire at the goons all along, dealing major damage...The Tanks meant the real threat for Stork's expo, they deal the most damage and killing them with concentrated fire doesn't take much longer than killing a vult (8 shots vs 5, right?). So basically Stork could have taken out around *at least* 5-6 Tanks by the time he was forced back to his choke (now that I remember he also wasted his time on like half a control group of marines), and that alone would have enabled him to preserve his expo for the time being, until he can get his reinforcments in line and maybe even out the game.
1. Prod his ego by saying he's the best starcraft player ever and is untouchable. 2. Get him a girlfriend who distracts him from starcraft 3. Cause him to practice a lot less via 2. 4. Watch as he crumbles.
Practicing yourself probably helps too.
On a more serious note, I really enjoyed the three games since I prefer Bisu to Stork, and was happy to see dismantlement of Bisu's rival toss.
It's tough to tell if Stork sucked and then he lost, or if he lost and now he sucks. Like an old woman who falls and breaks her hip but really she broke her hip and then fell.
I say there are 5 protoss who could have beaten Flash in that bo5 but I couldn't name then. Any Protoss in the top 50 of KeSPA would be eligible. Flash got all build order wins and won all the mind games.
Game 1: Stork can easily adjust his build order to defend that tank push with ease, but it looked like he was scared of a vulture raid or he was just playing for late game, in any case, he was not preparing for that tank push. If he builds only 5 goons, then zealots, and has his goons placed up past his mineral-only, then Flash loses 3 tanks early on, Stork takes no significant losses, and Flash is in a very very difficult position. Neither player had scouting to confirm that their move was the right one, so it was a little rock-paper-scissors effect going on there.
Game 2: Obviously a rock-paper-scissors. You can try very hard to make an argument that Flash's Katrina play has been so good that Stork felt he'd only have a chance by hard countering his build and therefore took a risk. But I think that's really silly. Again, both players take possibly game winning and possibly game losing risks without any scouting to confirm their moves. Flash makes the right move.
Game 3: More rock-paper-scissors type of strategy going on. Flash forces it by doing his insane timing push. Insane meaning he cuts scv's HARD, doesn't get turrets, doesn't get comsats, and sends everything. Again, he has no scouting to confirm that he's making the right move. Stork was doing a very standard build when he certainly could have been preparing DT's or a heroic reaver. DT's would obviously repel the push and Flash would be left with a very weak economy. Reavers would counter Flash's low tank count and are especially effective considering the wide ramp at the naturals on Troy. Killing scv's would be incredibly effective against Flash's low SCV count.
Bisu's series against Flash showed how to control the course of the games, rather than leaving things to guesses and luck, but Bisu played unusually poorly in the midgame and lategame. I'm sure many protosses thought that they could have won a bo5 against Flash after that series. Stork had the wisdom of those games and yet still brought a wimpy style of early-game play which never allowed his late-game management to shine where Bisu made so many mistakes.
Man I got screwed over this season probably because I didn't watch any of the games. Good thing I finally had the nerve to vote for Flash in a TvP match. I guess his Carrier woes are over now. ;/
On March 16 2008 03:43 NonY[rC] wrote: It's tough to tell if Stork sucked and then he lost, or if he lost and now he sucks. Like an old woman who falls and breaks her hip but really she broke her hip and then fell.
I say there are 5 protoss who could have beaten Flash in that bo5 but I couldn't name then. Any Protoss in the top 50 of KeSPA would be eligible. Flash got all build order wins and won all the mind games.
Game 1: Stork can easily adjust his build order to defend that tank push with ease, but it looked like he was scared of a vulture raid or he was just playing for late game, in any case, he was not preparing for that tank push. If he builds only 5 goons, then zealots, and has his goons placed up past his mineral-only, then Flash loses 3 tanks early on, Stork takes no significant losses, and Flash is in a very very difficult position. Neither player had scouting to confirm that their move was the right one, so it was a little rock-paper-scissors effect going on there.
Game 2: Obviously a rock-paper-scissors. You can try very hard to make an argument that Flash's Katrina play has been so good that Stork felt he'd only have a chance by hard countering his build and therefore took a risk. But I think that's really silly. Again, both players take possibly game winning and possibly game losing risks without any scouting to confirm their moves. Flash makes the right move.
Game 3: More rock-paper-scissors type of strategy going on. Flash forces it by doing his insane timing push. Insane meaning he cuts scv's HARD, doesn't get turrets, doesn't get comsats, and sends everything. Again, he has no scouting to confirm that he's making the right move. Stork was doing a very standard build when he certainly could have been preparing DT's or a heroic reaver. DT's would obviously repel the push and Flash would be left with a very weak economy. Reavers would counter Flash's low tank count and are especially effective considering the wide ramp at the naturals on Troy. Killing scv's would be incredibly effective against Flash's low SCV count.
Bisu's series against Flash showed how to control the course of the games, rather than leaving things to guesses and luck, but Bisu played unusually poorly in the midgame and lategame. I'm sure many protosses thought that they could have won a bo5 against Flash after that series. Stork had the wisdom of those games and yet still brought a wimpy style of early-game play which never allowed his late-game management to shine where Bisu made so many mistakes.
I respect your opinion, but he beat Stork twice and Bisu and Anytime once in bo5's. I can't think of any better PvTers. Who else really is there? Is Flash just playing that good?
On March 16 2008 03:43 NonY[rC] wrote: It's tough to tell if Stork sucked and then he lost, or if he lost and now he sucks. Like an old woman who falls and breaks her hip but really she broke her hip and then fell.
I say there are 5 protoss who could have beaten Flash in that bo5 but I couldn't name then. Any Protoss in the top 50 of KeSPA would be eligible. Flash got all build order wins and won all the mind games.
Game 1: Stork can easily adjust his build order to defend that tank push with ease, but it looked like he was scared of a vulture raid or he was just playing for late game, in any case, he was not preparing for that tank push. If he builds only 5 goons, then zealots, and has his goons placed up past his mineral-only, then Flash loses 3 tanks early on, Stork takes no significant losses, and Flash is in a very very difficult position. Neither player had scouting to confirm that their move was the right one, so it was a little rock-paper-scissors effect going on there.
Game 2: Obviously a rock-paper-scissors. You can try very hard to make an argument that Flash's Katrina play has been so good that Stork felt he'd only have a chance by hard countering his build and therefore took a risk. But I think that's really silly. Again, both players take possibly game winning and possibly game losing risks without any scouting to confirm their moves. Flash makes the right move.
Game 3: More rock-paper-scissors type of strategy going on. Flash forces it by doing his insane timing push. Insane meaning he cuts scv's HARD, doesn't get turrets, doesn't get comsats, and sends everything. Again, he has no scouting to confirm that he's making the right move. Stork was doing a very standard build when he certainly could have been preparing DT's or a heroic reaver. DT's would obviously repel the push and Flash would be left with a very weak economy. Reavers would counter Flash's low tank count and are especially effective considering the wide ramp at the naturals on Troy. Killing scv's would be incredibly effective against Flash's low SCV count.
Bisu's series against Flash showed how to control the course of the games, rather than leaving things to guesses and luck, but Bisu played unusually poorly in the midgame and lategame. I'm sure many protosses thought that they could have won a bo5 against Flash after that series. Stork had the wisdom of those games and yet still brought a wimpy style of early-game play which never allowed his late-game management to shine where Bisu made so many mistakes.
maybe other protoss could have won against flash, but name a protoss who beat jaedong,Bisu and Stork 2 times (GSI and OSL) in 1 month like flash did? He's dominant right now, you can't deny it
I have nothing against Stork, and feel bad for him getting silver again, then I remembered he was Samsung. He's the only member of Samsung I really have nothing against.
We should have a movie for Stork. Song Byung Goo Silvermember.
"Game 2: Obviously a rock-paper-scissors. You can try very hard to make an argument that Flash's Katrina play has been so good that Stork felt he'd only have a chance by hard countering his build and therefore took a risk. But I think that's really silly. Again, both players take possibly game winning and possibly game losing risks without any scouting to confirm their moves. Flash makes the right move."
I bet Flash knew with 99% certainly Stork was going to try 14nex.
On March 16 2008 07:16 Retsukage wrote: this is the era of flash
Nah, It's not that easy. People have forgotten about Jeadong, but I would still root for Jeadong in a Bo5. And then there's Bisu, which gave a good fight against flash but has been a bit too inconsistent. If he gets back to his best shape, we will have a nice race trio on the very top
Half way in to the first game I found myself wondring why they diden't show it in FPVOD, then I remembered that it was NOT B-net attack with Flash but the OSL finals :p j/k
What the fuck stork? Even if he is on fire your the imbaPvToss, how the fuck do you get 3-0ed in the easiest final you could of asked for? (Even if flash was fucking ON FIRE)
Man i wont say it really bothers me that this set of games wasnt very exciting. But its more just upsetting how Stork could get rolled so easily, that fool just plays the same way everyy game now. Its sort of sad how predictable he is.
seriously, i think every time he went to the bathroom during the final, flash must have used some kinds of steroid which helped him think quicker,click faster and play more aggressively. kespa should gather flash's urine or blood sample to test asap.
On March 16 2008 10:50 XiaoLongNuSucks wrote: seriously, i think every time he went to the bathroom during the final, flash must have used some kinds of steroid which helped him think quicker,click faster and play more aggressively. kespa should gather flash's urine or blood sample to test asap.
Nony put it perfectly. Bisu proved that flash isn't invulnerable and showed a textbook example of how to survive against him. However, Flash's great level of play was too much for someone who really ended up using that series to pull himself out of a slump.
Flash's biggest advantage over Stork here was in the mindgame. Stork wasn't just beaten, he was read like a fucking textbook and Destroyed completely. That takes not only phenomenal play from Flash, but both the confidence your opponent is that predictable and the balls to play the game that way.
And guess what happened?
If Stork doesn't return from this, we'll probably get a flash/jaedeong/bisu circle. Which is awesome, as they all now have titles.
On March 16 2008 10:50 XiaoLongNuSucks wrote: seriously, i think every time he went to the bathroom during the final, flash must have used some kinds of steroid which helped him think quicker,click faster and play more aggressively. kespa should gather flash's urine or blood sample to test asap.
its the tea thats hes drinking.
Victory Tea, to bad stork couldnt get his hands on some
On March 16 2008 05:12 blazin777 wrote: flash said in his interview that bisu is his protoss rival while jaedong is his zerg rival, lol ouch stork
lol someones telling porkies, have a look at the flash vs stork record, it speaks for itself
Your record with a player doesn't prove anything.
For example, I'll bet Bisu is more likely to call Hwasin his rival in Terran or Flash than forgg, who is iirc 4:0 against him. It's about how those games make you feel, among a thousand other things.
i kinda agree with with haxxor. stork played a very conventional build vs flash. i m sure he had some end game tricks to deal with flash's trademark goliaths, but flash totally knew stork was intending to do that and kept the pressure on him.
stork totally did not anticipate flash NOT to play a big macro game on such an event like OSL final like he did vs bisu in the semis
On March 16 2008 11:41 dybydx wrote: i kinda agree with with haxxor. stork played a very conventional build vs flash. i m sure he had some end game tricks to deal with flash's trademark goliaths, but flash totally knew stork was intending to do that and kept the pressure on him.
stork totally did not anticipate flash NOT to play a big macro game on such an event like OSL final like he did vs bisu in the semis
Thats the hallmark of a champion. He adapts. GSI Flash and OSL Flash were quite literally two different players.
Boxer's cheese, Nada's control, Oov's macro. Who can stop this guy?
Thats the hallmark of a champion. He adapts. GSI Flash and OSL Flash were quite literally two different players.
Boxer's cheese, Nada's control, Oov's macro. Who can stop this guy?
Jaedong and that's about it so far. Bisu has proved he could, but he's going to need to get a good mid/lategame play going before he'll be able to take games.
Thats the hallmark of a champion. He adapts. GSI Flash and OSL Flash were quite literally two different players.
Boxer's cheese, Nada's control, Oov's macro. Who can stop this guy?
Jaedong and that's about it so far. Bisu has proved he could, but he's going to need to get a good mid/lategame play going before he'll be able to take games.
Thats the hallmark of a champion. He adapts. GSI Flash and OSL Flash were quite literally two different players.
Boxer's cheese, Nada's control, Oov's macro. Who can stop this guy?
Jaedong and that's about it so far. Bisu has proved he could, but he's going to need to get a good mid/lategame play going before he'll be able to take games.
/ignores the fact it was rhetorical
Bisu can stop him without a doubt. Another Bo5 between those two (not to mention that it was the best matchup in this entire half-lame starleague), the result would go another way. Bisu is already in both starleagues for next season. He's not done winning just yet. To say he'll win at least another title is easy imo. btw, he can cheese too you know :-)
If we keep in mind what Jaedong managed, Flash is capable of at least getting to the RO8, before going down to the strongest example that the other races can offer using a build he's not too great against.
On March 16 2008 17:19 Danger_Duck wrote: Can somebody explain the hardy scv at 6:25 in the first game (on Blue Storm)? It took 6 shots from dragoons and survived....
whoa cool, wish my scvs would do that...
anyway, I'd say armor upgrades but that would be retarded.
On March 16 2008 17:19 Danger_Duck wrote: Can somebody explain the hardy scv at 6:25 in the first game (on Blue Storm)? It took 6 shots from dragoons and survived....
whoa cool, wish my scvs would do that...
anyway, I'd say armor upgrades but that would be retarded.
There is a chance of unit missing on even ground, even though its very very very little.
i believe scv has "small" armor. dragoon do "explosive" damage, hence 50% damage to SCV, or 10 damage a hit. SCV has 60 hp, so 6 hits to die. also as someone said, there is a chance to miss, especially if both units are moving.
On March 16 2008 17:19 Danger_Duck wrote: Can somebody explain the hardy scv at 6:25 in the first game (on Blue Storm)? It took 6 shots from dragoons and survived....
whoa cool, wish my scvs would do that...
anyway, I'd say armor upgrades but that would be retarded.
There is a chance of unit missing on even ground, even though its very very very little.
oh ok, yeah just watched it again and one of the goons did miss a shot.
On March 16 2008 21:06 iloveHieu wrote: for those who already saw the whole series, if you have to recommend 1 match to watch out of this series, which game would it be?
On March 16 2008 21:06 iloveHieu wrote: for those who already saw the whole series, if you have to recommend 1 match to watch out of this series, which game would it be?
the second one.
man..
flash is 15 years old. 15. in some ways that makes me feel terrible T_T.
No doubt Flash has steel nerves. But read his interview on GG.net, you will see he also has watermelon-sized balls. He says (among other things), that, yeah, he expected a 3-0 win, he lured Stork into FE on Katrina long before the game started, and he has yet to meet his Terran rival. I guess it is true, but saying it so plainly... Wow. He'd better not loose a single game in a while.
ya... those tanks, with their 11 inch barrels penetrated deep into Stork's backdoor. After Flash broke down his Nexus, he pulled it out, then finished Stork with an orgasmic explosion of spider mines.
On March 17 2008 08:36 dybydx wrote: ya... those tanks, with their 11 inch barrels penetrated deep into Stork's backdoor. After Flash broke down his Nexus, he pulled it out, then finished Stork with an orgasmic explosion of spider mines.
I think you're suppressing some urges that should not be kept down. I'd recommend seeing a psychiatrist ASAP.
Thats my boy Hope you'll win more titles than your mentor - Byun Gil Sup!
Sadly this series was one of the worst Ive ever seen. NaDa - July(IOPS) and Oov - July(Shinhan2005) the closest in quality. The interesting part is that those ones were onesided due to bad maps for zerg, while these maps were favored against the winner. Looks like the GSI finals were the turning point between these two. I dont think Stork will keep his winning record vs Flash much longer.
I love how recently after every game he's been sipping on that drink of his with a confident expression, win or lose. I think the drink is his secret!!! hahaha jk
edit: forgot to mention the constant runs to the restroom to get advice from boxer as someone said rofl
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/Bacchus_OSL.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/59.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/424.jpg)
Stork. . . . . .
Flash![[image loading]](http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f193/tessfalen/snapshot20080215123519.png)
YellOw best put it:![[image loading]](http://img.hiphopplaya.com/minihome_photo/20070625_022852_ba2-rookie112.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/pachi/bracket/OSL_080315.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://teamliquid.net/staff/pachi/misc2/svf.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4479/storkflashuv6.png)
![[image loading]](http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4950/wow1ut9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00049183vp5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00049216qt3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00049383wr9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9155/lol1ut4.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00049516yb2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00049583vz2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00049950pv6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00048982cf5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00049016kq4.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00049116zt6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00049016eu6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00049082pi5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00048982uo3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00049149dm9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vs00049116ge6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://pic2.ohpy.com/up/elbbs/2008/03/15/80763/462177613/mid_osl%B0%E1%BD%C2%C0%FC1.jpg)
