Today, two of the hottest players of the moment are duking it out in a Bo5. It rarely gets more exciting (except when Casy unpacks the nukes). As I just received word that my time has been freed up tomorrow, I decided to use the boost of joy to type up a little preview, as I think this matchup deserves it. If you had anything prepared or want to throw in some pictures or cheerfuls, just post below.
Jaedong The first name barely needs an introduction. But yet we have to see once again, what giant wave of success Jaedong is riding on. The first was his victory in the OSL, taking down Stork 3-1 in an impressive series, at least from the Zerg side. As the Powerrank stated: "The only thing keeping Jaedong down these last few months was his hapless ZvP". And this issue has been remedied. Not only through the win against Stork, as Stork was always reknown for dubitable ZvP. But during the MSL groups, Jaedong met someone who picked him for his group to teach him a lesson. He took up that challenge and beat his foe through a straight, strategic game. This foe was none other than Bisu, who subsequently dropped out of the MSL against Yarnc.
While having refined this other matchup, Jaedong was best known to be a beast in his staple matchups, ZvZ and ZvT. In both of these, his win figures have climbed as high as 70%. ZvZ was proven lately against Luxury, taking him down clean and earning this spot in these quarters in the process. What remains is probably the matchup which has been the most impressive on Jaedong's side and which we are going to see today: ZvT. Whoever watched the Grand Finals of the Proleague couldn't help but wonder what Iris did wrong in that game. Iris had a stable economy, a solid build order, he even fended off the mutalisk harass quite easily, while Jaedong ran his mutas through turret fire and lost most of them. Yet, that did not stop him. At every point where you would think that Iris would have a window of opportunity it was closed quickly through excellent positioning and precise dark swarms. Iris - technically - should have been ahead. Practically, he never was. This is the phenomenon of Jaedong right now.
During the groupstage, Sea felt this sharpness. On their game, one small misclick with his initial marine group cost him the game - Jaedong did not hesitate, shredded most of the marines with his lings and mopped the floor with his Mutas. His only three losses since December were a game against Sea, the first game of the Stork series and a weirdly planned strategy on Demon's Forest (one hatch fast lurker) which ran into the exact counter with Robo first, but still ALMOST succeeded.
Jaedong is:
on a 21-3 streak since December
on a 8-0 ZvT winstreak
OSL Champion
Shinhan Bank Proleague Season 2 Winner with Lecaf
in MSL and OSL Quarterfinals
Flash Jaedong is one of just two players who are still in business for both leagues. The other one is his opponent today and will be his opponent in the OSL as well. There are better fates than this. But Flash has risen. There was a time when his name was spoken with contempt, as he was best-known for his cheesy openings and seemed to lack a proper mid- and lategame management. These times are long past. In his Ro16 against Hwasin which carried him into this round, Flash clearly showed how he is able to outmaneuver his opponent without resorting to cheese, granting him easy wins against his foe. His supposed weakness against Protoss and carriers seemed to kick in again at the OSL groupstage, but in the tiebreakers he took it home safely. He has the game under control, and not only during weird openings. He is playing straight and he is playing well. His Tiebreaker TvZ against Rumble had the stamp "almost too easy" on it, as he casually went through it.
If there is one thing which Flash does not show, it is nerves. That his maybe his greatest asset in the fight against the current monster of progaming. When other players might be disheartened or resort to cheese because they would not dare a straight game, Flash keeps his calm, be it in Proleague Ace matches or individual leagues.
Flash is:
17 - 6 since december
in MSL and OSL Quarterfinals
Maybe the reason that KTF was not totally dismantled in Proleague this season.
The first thing to consider are surely the maps. As I only have limited experiences through my own play (not too much and playing Protoss), I can mostly only analyze statistics and what I saw in games.
We have Katrina being played twice, but in this case, nobody is in a position to go two base carriers as there are no protoss represented. Still the map sports a slight overweight for Terrans to win it, with them being 16-12 (57.1%) against the swarm. Katrina also hosted the disassembly Rumble suffered from Flash, so he should be comfortable on this map, he is 5-1 overall and 3-0 against Zerg. Jaedong is 6-0, winning 2-0 against all races. So either JD's ZvT streak on this map, or Flash's TvZ streak will break today.
Loki II has it 8-4 in favor of terran, Flash is 3-1 without having encountered a zerg, Jaedong has not been televised on this map yet. If the figure is indicative in any way, Flash will have a slight advantage.
The map which can definitely be called in this matchup is Blue Storm. 26-19 (57.8%) for the zerg, Flash 4-3 on it (0-1 against Z), Jaedong 8-3 on it, but on a 7-0 streak. Blue Storm usually gives lots of opportunity for the zerg to secure the gas he needs, he can forestall terran offenses in the middle, the cliffs around the bases allow for swift muta harass, and we certainly remember the "double penetration" move Jaedong pulled on this map, piloting two groups of mutas through the terran bases at once. Jaedong is the clear favourite here and there will be a reason why Flash thumbed it down, in order not to have to play it twice.
Zodiac was the thumbed down choice by Jaedong. Terran sporting an impressive 2/3 win percentage with 12-6 games, Jaedong being 2-1 with 0-1 stats in ZvT, this was maybe a wise choice, although the statistical value of these figures is certainly limited.
Official Warning!!!!! Nobody ask about how to watch or where to watch or "omg my stream lags!!!" from now on. Consider this your official warning. Everything from here on out is a 2-day temp ban.
Generally, MSL games are watchable through the GOM Player, Yaoyuan might also be available.
Great intro dude ! I really dont know who I want to win. I voted JD cuz he's the more solid one but I like Flash too, at last a v.good terran in KTF and he's still young and has way more to go. I just hope for a very good and close series, some pimp action and great moments. GL to both !
just cant wait for the match ! I really hope Flash to put Jaedong under pressure and I'm sure he will take a game or even two , but for me the Legend Killer is the guy to advance, but if a got to chose where Flash should take out Jaedong will vote for MSL. Taking out the zerg-machine in the OSL will ruin the perfect match (by which I mean the eventual semi Jaedong vs Bisu). So Flash if you gonna beat the best player in the moment do it in MSL and let Bisu finish the deal in the OSL
imo, Flash could very well take this... all the maps (except blue storm) are slightly terran favoured over zerg - which is good for him. Blue Storm should be an easy game for Jaedong, because imo it's a map that punishes mistakes. I think that terrans, as the defenders most of the time, are subject to a lot more mistake opportunities than Zerg. That being said, Jaedong isn't one to make a mistake.
The other maps should end up in jaedongs favour, but iono.. i want to believe that flash will win.. but i dont know if thats possible =[
I predict they both will do well on the maps they thumbed down cause they will practice much harder for them, something in me says the wonder kid has a plan and jaedong is distracted by the proleague grandfinals but both finals and msl games are v t however its still a distraction as frozean and flash have different playstyles, even so something in me says vote flash
On February 14 2008 09:51 abomi.nation wrote: Flash 4-1
FLASH FIGHTING!!!
Basically Flash's chance of winning is the chance of this 4-1 happening. Though Flash does give that little bit of hope that if anyone can do it, he can.
Once again, my heart and my balls disagree. (Why can't they ever work together seriously...)
I want Flash to win. He is a great player and I like him more and more.
I know Jaedong will probably win. He is like Otis the neighborhood pimp right now slapping all the lazy bitches, drinking from his goblet, and just bitch slapping anyone who comes across his way.
And to think these two face each other twice, or rather, to think that Flash has to be beaten twice by Jaedong is just too much lol.
On February 14 2008 09:47 Plexa wrote: Very nice Aesop
imo, Flash could very well take this... all the maps (except blue storm) are slightly terran favoured over zerg - which is good for him. Blue Storm should be an easy game for Jaedong, because imo it's a map that punishes mistakes. I think that terrans, as the defenders most of the time, are subject to a lot more mistake opportunities than Zerg. That being said, Jaedong isn't one to make a mistake.
The other maps should end up in jaedongs favour, but iono.. i want to believe that flash will win.. but i dont know if thats possible =[
I don't understand your Blue Storm reasoning at all lol..punishes mistakes more? you mean less terrain? Like if you mess up a battle once you get rolled over all the way, I think that's what you mean.
I don't think Terrans are open to more mistakes because they are defensive. Both are equal because the units are so fragile for both of them; one bad battle decision or mess up in the micro could be gg for either zerg or terran
On February 14 2008 09:47 Plexa wrote: Very nice Aesop
imo, Flash could very well take this... all the maps (except blue storm) are slightly terran favoured over zerg - which is good for him. Blue Storm should be an easy game for Jaedong, because imo it's a map that punishes mistakes. I think that terrans, as the defenders most of the time, are subject to a lot more mistake opportunities than Zerg. That being said, Jaedong isn't one to make a mistake.
The other maps should end up in jaedongs favour, but iono.. i want to believe that flash will win.. but i dont know if thats possible =[
I don't understand your Blue Storm reasoning at all lol..punishes mistakes more? you mean less terrain? Like if you mess up a battle once you get rolled over all the way, I think that's what you mean.
I don't think Terrans are open to more mistakes because they are defensive. Both are equal because the units are so fragile for both of them; one bad battle decision or mess up in the micro could be gg for either zerg or terran
I feel that on blue storm mistakes are amplified greatly - i can't exactly pinpoint why - its just how i feel the map is. Perhaps mistakes is the wrong concept i am looking for? Blue Storm favors the aggressor? I dont know, hard to convey what i mean
My opinion is really really full of holes though ill give you that
On February 14 2008 09:47 Plexa wrote: Very nice Aesop
imo, Flash could very well take this... all the maps (except blue storm) are slightly terran favoured over zerg - which is good for him. Blue Storm should be an easy game for Jaedong, because imo it's a map that punishes mistakes. I think that terrans, as the defenders most of the time, are subject to a lot more mistake opportunities than Zerg. That being said, Jaedong isn't one to make a mistake.
The other maps should end up in jaedongs favour, but iono.. i want to believe that flash will win.. but i dont know if thats possible =[
I don't understand your Blue Storm reasoning at all lol..punishes mistakes more? you mean less terrain? Like if you mess up a battle once you get rolled over all the way, I think that's what you mean.
I don't think Terrans are open to more mistakes because they are defensive. Both are equal because the units are so fragile for both of them; one bad battle decision or mess up in the micro could be gg for either zerg or terran
I feel that on blue storm mistakes are amplified greatly - i can't exactly pinpoint why - its just how i feel the map is. Perhaps mistakes is the wrong concept i am looking for? Blue Storm favors the aggressor? I dont know, hard to convey what i mean
My opinion is really really full of holes though ill give you that
I kinda get a feel for what you are trying to say though ;p I think the main reasons why the mistakes get "amplified" are the lack of terrains and the proximity of expos to each other. Usually when someone makes a micro mistake and retreats after losing a chunk of the army or something, he can make comeback using small ramps and stuff but Blue Storm is an open field lol. Also, maybe the fact that expos are all clumped together? I don't know
On February 14 2008 09:47 Plexa wrote: Very nice Aesop
imo, Flash could very well take this... all the maps (except blue storm) are slightly terran favoured over zerg - which is good for him. Blue Storm should be an easy game for Jaedong, because imo it's a map that punishes mistakes. I think that terrans, as the defenders most of the time, are subject to a lot more mistake opportunities than Zerg. That being said, Jaedong isn't one to make a mistake.
The other maps should end up in jaedongs favour, but iono.. i want to believe that flash will win.. but i dont know if thats possible =[
I don't understand your Blue Storm reasoning at all lol..punishes mistakes more? you mean less terrain? Like if you mess up a battle once you get rolled over all the way, I think that's what you mean.
I don't think Terrans are open to more mistakes because they are defensive. Both are equal because the units are so fragile for both of them; one bad battle decision or mess up in the micro could be gg for either zerg or terran
I feel that on blue storm mistakes are amplified greatly - i can't exactly pinpoint why - its just how i feel the map is. Perhaps mistakes is the wrong concept i am looking for? Blue Storm favors the aggressor? I dont know, hard to convey what i mean
My opinion is really really full of holes though ill give you that
I kinda get a feel for what you are trying to say though ;p I think the main reasons why the mistakes get "amplified" are the lack of terrains and the proximity of expos to each other. Usually when someone makes a micro mistake and retreats after losing a chunk of the army or something, he can make comeback using small ramps and stuff but Blue Storm is an open field lol. Also, maybe the fact that expos are all clumped together? I don't know
Yea, pretty much what i'm getting at worded better
I think Flash will win on Katrina, straight game. He will lose on Blue Storm as I see no hope in winning vs Jaedong there. On Loki he will probably do some cheesy strat, because the play-style of both is unknown on this map in TvZ/ZvT yet. Jaedong will take Zodiac even if its a Terran map and he will win the last game on Katrina, after he analysed Flash in game 1.
i see jaedong losing game 1, winning the next 2, losing zodiac then taking the final game for a 3:2 victory. pretty pumped for this game, think it should be close.
with jaedong playing so well, the only way Flash is going to beat him is by genuinely outplaying him. if that happens, then he deserves every bit of credit he'll get for it.
My prediction is 3-1 for Jaedong with Flash winning on Loki
I wish I had the guts to vote for Flash. I believe he's fully capable of destroying Jaedong. But Jaedong now is "the one" which means no matter what the other player does, everything turns to his favour no matter what. I'm praying for a steady good working stream otherwise I'll cry badly
Bisu gives thanks to MBC game and says he didn't know that they would make such a big deal out of it. He thought he wouldn't cry, but says he will do his best for SKT.
and here i was wondering whether changing teams would be a good move when he has such an important game coming up tomorrow. i think seeing him so emotional kinda answered that question...
On February 14 2008 18:45 Midori wrote: The coach says MBC will continue to help out Bisu as he is like a son to him and a apart of his MBC HERO family.
On February 14 2008 18:42 Alethios wrote: Like this guy's play... but thats about all. Such an arrogant prick, your crying makes me so embarrassed.
Start up the MSL finals!
How is he arrogant? It's clearly emotional for him, he's lived with the team for a long time. Also, this isn't the MSL finals.
As an example... Bisu vs Savior on b.net attack.
Savior picked terran, and Bisu spent the entire game mocking him.
Or calling Hwasin "insurance"
Or...
Like watching him play. Thats about all.
that's it? he completely owned throughout 2007, and two things he probably did for the fans plus something you read into the way he plays is all you can come up with?
On February 14 2008 18:42 Alethios wrote: Like this guy's play... but thats about all. Such an arrogant prick, your crying makes me so embarrassed.
Start up the MSL finals!
How is he arrogant? It's clearly emotional for him, he's lived with the team for a long time. Also, this isn't the MSL finals.
As an example... Bisu vs Savior on b.net attack.
Savior picked terran, and Bisu spent the entire game mocking him.
Or calling Hwasin "insurance"
Or...
Like watching him play. Thats about all.
he was friendly with savior. he wasnt being very serious. he was smiling and luaghing when he said it and then he talked to savior and no hard feelings. it was pretty obvious.
the hwasin thing however i didnt see live so i cant say anything about it
You got to understand what seems arrogant to us, isn't the same to the Korean Culture.
The way Bisu talked to Savior on the phone after their bnet attack game, it shows that they are quite comfortable around each other. He shows much respect to Savior by calling him hyung, and by his dialogue and tone of voice.
To me it seems like the President of MBC Hero gladly traded a talented programmer for 200k and a bouquet of flowers. He kept saying how honored he was of Bisu accomplishments and hopes that he continues to further the growth of E Sports. He was like the only one happy.
Everyone else on MBC Hero was pretty much devistated.
MBC traded him because they couldn't afford to pay him his worth (could only give him 60 million won when he was worth almost three times that). Bisu didn't want to go, but MBC sent him to SKT so he could get the money he deserved. So no bad feelings on either side, which is why everyone was so sad. It's all a matter of money and MBC didn't have enough of it.
It is amazing how these two are essentially playing blind, assuming their build will be valid against everything the opponent throws at them. Neither has means of penetrating the other's base for scouting at the moment.
JD is getting hydras, double evo upgrades and 0-1 (defense) already done. Flash with starport, 4 fac, double armory and soon science vessels. Has two tanks and is preparing to expand to his third base.
JD getting queen's and has 3rd base running. Battle in front of flash's base, mass golly / 3 tank against mass hydra. Hydras getting shredded overall. Flash getting 3rd base, Jaedong teching for hive. With hydras he wont win the war, but his hive tech is coming. Flash sealing off his base with mass turrets against drops.
Jaedong boldly took top right, which is very close to flash terrain. Two ninja scourge get a sci vessel at flash's 3rd base. Some vultures heading down and mining at the 3 spot. ACtually they do find the top right expansion, hydras are running there to reinforce.
god damn the stream is laggy! For a second my screen showed that flash had his army next to JD's lair even tho he actually was fighting with hydralisks next to his own base! lol
Hydras eliminate vults at top right, but 3 vultures enter JD's third base and rack up ALOT of drone kills. Very nice harassment by Flash, but hive is running now for JD and he built up a muta force of about 12 with 1 armor upgrade. Four more factories going up for Flash, JD moving his mutas around now. FLash appears to be low on gollies for the moment. JD charges with mutas and hydras, killing quite a few tanks but has to retreat.
Vultures running wild in Jaedong's expo, Flash has 2/2 upgrades right now. Jaedong moves his hydras to defend expo and Flash runs into his other expo with more vultures and kills almost all the drones there too
Vultures raid third base again, killing all drones there but getting chased away by mutas. Now suiciding into JD's backdoor expansion where a defiler mound is building.
Jaedong has lots of muts and hydras, but Flash's formation is too good and he retreats with not much gained. Flash uses the opportunity while forces are out to harrass more drones with vultures. Jaedong's larva are just laying there, defiler mound's going up but Flash is starting to move downwards with around 10 tanks and around ~20~30 gols
Flash has ALOT of metal. AND he managed to damage JD's economy. He is moving in with a tank / goliaht force now. I dont think defilers will be there in time. Flash is moving his tanks too far ahead, losing nearly all of them. His goliaths take down most of the hydras and Mutas though.
3rd base is falling, vultures raiding top right again. Flash IS WINNING.
Flash is shown with 11 fac. He does not even bother sieging his tanks as he crushes yet another group of hydras. There is nothing to hope for for Jaedong, defilers wont be in time and neither ultra / ling / whatever.
oh my god... what a rape. jaedong posed _no_ threat, at _any_ point in the game. at first i didn't understand how flash had so much faith in his build, that he allowed jaedong to expand as much as he liked, but now i get it...
Holy shit, that looked "easy". Now comes Blue Storm, if Jaedong cannot win that match, he is basically dead. Not only because of being 0-2 but because Blue Storm should be the strongest point for him in this series.
It seemed to me that Jaedong didn't have enough lings. I hardly ever see T go metal against zerg, but I think lings would help, especially against tanks.
Decisive attack shown again: 1 group muta 2 1/2 group hydra get their heads bloody against Flash's third base / ramp. After that it was mopping up. Flash was maybe expecting more mutas, hence the numbers of initial goliaths, but added sufficient tanks in time.
Yeah that was a really key win for Flash with bluestorm coming up. Confidence should be way up. Damn from a terran, I knew Flash was playing good, but that shit was sick.
Dang the barracks was in the perfect position and some hydras were stuck attacking it and getting raped. Jaedong probably would have lost the battle anyway, but still that was a nice trick.
Good play by Flash, but Jaedong attacked quite a few times and always ended up on the losing side, he lost a lot of men. He should of waited for Flash to attack him then he could of flanked or wait for swarm. Suprised he didn't build any guards.
On the other hand, was there a reason for Jaedong to assault Flash on his own doorstep? Flash had the positioning all set up there and Jaedong ran right into that. Had he waited and flanked, I suppose the results could have been better.
On February 14 2008 19:13 Nick_54 wrote: Yeah that was a really key win for Flash with bluestorm coming up. Confidence should be way up. Damn from a terran, I knew Flash was playing good, but that shit was sick.
On February 14 2008 19:15 Aesop wrote: On the other hand, was there a reason for Jaedong to assault Flash on his own doorstep? Flash had the positioning all set up there and Jaedong ran right into that. Had he waited and flanked, I suppose the results could have been better.
Agree on this post. Without that attack i think Jaedong might have hold it. But a really entertaining game none the less. Should be great series.
On February 14 2008 19:13 Nick_54 wrote: Yeah that was a really key win for Flash with bluestorm coming up. Confidence should be way up. Damn from a terran, I knew Flash was playing good, but that shit was sick.
On February 14 2008 19:13 Nick_54 wrote: Yeah that was a really key win for Flash with bluestorm coming up. Confidence should be way up. Damn from a terran, I knew Flash was playing good, but that shit was sick.
i'm so confused..why would Jaedong attack a metal terran like that? especially given the strength of that army + positioning? I had thought the way to play vs metal terran is to expand all over, avoid the giant terran army and counterattack on his bases/harass and massssss units.. late hive tech.. and not really care if a few expos die since metal is so immobile and you should have plenty of expos
Eight lings moving up. Flash has a bunker in position and his scvs blocking entrance to his main base. Totally pimp positioning here. Jaedong getting a spire, which should be a little faster than usual. Flash has had academy for a while and is getting some bats.
Jaedong expanding at 12 (!) next to Flash's base. JD sneaking 4 ling past the bunker but flash pays attention. First turrets going up for him. JD has his first mutas ready and is sending a drone towards his 12 expansion. Muta harass starting soon, but the turrets are on time
Jaedong might have found it hard to harass because Flash had a huge long line of turrets all along his nat and first expo's cliffs, so basically the only way he could get in was through the front door. Dunno why he chose to take Flash's bait tho. --
Anyway for this match:
Flash putting up his third rax, decent amount of turrets at his expo, Jaedong's first batch of muts are going to harass. SCV repairs before muts can kill the turret, Jaedong can only kill two marines and an SCV before getting out
Jaedong with hidden expo at 12! Mutas out for Jaedong Flash putting up many turret. Mutas have not done much Jaedong wants to be Kwanro and taking out many turrets that flash is rebuilding.
3 raxx for Flash now, sufficient turrets and small MM force. Runs in 4 lings with the mutas but a bat is still there and kills them. Gets a turret down, but no significant damage done yet with the muta harass.
JD still with muta only, preventing the lower towers at Flash's expo at getting rebuilt. Flash adding more inf and a Factory. Jaedong morphing hive already, so we have a lurker skip as it seems.
Jaedong flys into Flash's base with many Mutas, realizes it is laced with turrets Jaedong loses a couple mutas, still trying to harass against many turrets Quick Hive for Jaedong! Stream lagging! Jaedong takes out 3/4 in line of turrets.
Jaedong is only killing towers and an occasional marine, but he is keeping flash in his base all the time while going directly for lair and running 3 gas with the 12 expansion. GREATER SPIRE. Flash must have seen, he is getting 2n starport. Mutas enter terran base cause quite some damage.
Jaedong doing nice damage with his Mutas Jaedong slaughtering some poor marines inside Flash's base Jaedong going greater spire 2 groups of mutas go in! Kills some rines, loses some mutas Flash going clocked wraith
Flash sees the hive, goes two ports. Jaedong's muts take the chance and run in, killing the port-building SCV and lots of marines. Second port goes up, looks like Flash is going for wraiths. Gspire is going up
Almost two groups of mutas for Jaedong, greater spire done soon. Flash still on two base and being contained. Moving out his rine force now, he cannot wait much longer and needs to stall for time against guardians.
Jaedong taking top left and fighting pure muta against pure infantry. Better end for the mutas. Flash getting wraiths now, but his infantry is in shambles. Cocoons morphing in the air, like 6 of them.
Flash moves out with his rines! Jaedong a-moves his mutas to try to counter Jaedong kills many rines and medics, though stream lagged Flash scans guardian tech! MANY WRAITHS FOR FLASH FLASH TAKES OUT THE OVIE FLASH RAPING GUARDS
Flash makes a rush outwards with his mnms, but they're all killed Jaedong's muts going guardian, about 8 of them The rest of the muts go in and check how many wraiths there are Flash's wraiths start killing shit, but flash cloaks and snipes overlord Overlords haven't got speed upgrade, Flash kills all the guardians and runs out
Flash slips up, loses a few marines, a few wraiths, forced back inside. Jaedong still hasn't gotten attacked even once. Still no vessel, guardians and muits going in
Jaedong attacks with 3 guards! STREAM LAGGIN! Jaedong takes out a couple of turrets, now turret line is more or less dead Flash counters with rines and wraiths, wraiths dead, not many rines Jaedong carelessly loses a Guard to a turret Jaedong expo'd to 6 and 11 Flash stops mining at nat!
Flash takes out another guardian force with sexy wraith hit and run. Two left when wraiths die, marines cannot fight them. JD decideds to suicide those into towers. Still lots of pressure on Flash, but JD is hardly investing in economy, has mostly gas running and no minerals.
Looks like Jaedong's gonna take this through sheer resources, Flash is doing his best but Jaedong has 5 bases and Flash has only 2. Guardians are hammering flash's expo, scvs can't work
Except for Flash's mineral only, Jaedong has claimed ALL other expansions on the map, that is his natural, top left, 12, 6, bottom right. He can supplement his airforce from 6 gas soon.
Flash is kept stuck inside his own expo, muts hitting and running, guardians attacking from time to time Flash goes around with mnms, but loses them all to muts, types out. Game Jaedong
Jaedong kills more wraiths Jaedong is also expoing to 5, going ALL OVER THE MAP Jaedong destroying defenses at nat, wraiths getting killed Jaedong finally makes lings Jaedong still muta harassing Flash moves out in what seems to be a desperation attack! M&M DIES FLASH GGs
On February 14 2008 19:37 Piste wrote: Anyone agrees with me that few valkyries could have turned this game in favor of Flash? I mean they could had dealt damage to mutalisks too.
I don't think so, Valkyries can't cloak. A lot of the advantage of the wraith is that it can cloak.
flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
valks are very expensive and i think they are not as good vs guardians. anyway it was coz he CLOAKED his wraiths that he could stay in the game another 5 minutes. with valks i think he would have been dead faster
On February 14 2008 19:38 buddhabeads wrote: flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
On February 14 2008 19:37 Piste wrote: Anyone agrees with me that few valkyries could have turned this game in favor of Flash? I mean they could had dealt damage to mutalisks too.
Not sure here.
1. Mutas usually get their armor grades first, so the valk damage is handicapped severely, unless you upgrade your attack. 2. Valks are vulnerable to scourge, as they are quite expensive. 3. Spreading mutas can solve the valk problem to some extent.
I am sure that valks work in long games, for example in TvT if the opponent is massing wraiths, but in these tense games where every unit counts, you don't have the economy to build a critical mass of valks.
edit: And finally, as the guardians come with heavy armor and will be upgraded even more, it will take ages until your valks manage to get those down. Wraiths do the job better there.
On February 14 2008 19:38 buddhabeads wrote: flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
i dont think its a good idea to mech against 2 hatch muta... first you must have rines to protect the turrets, and if u start making goliaths it means u have a moment when your unit count is low, (u stop producing marines) and then he would be destroyed. flash did the right thing
On February 14 2008 19:38 buddhabeads wrote: flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
On February 14 2008 19:38 0xDEADBEEF wrote: Jaedong's speed and macro saved him here, but his micro and decision making was bad again, he lost a lot of units. He's bad today.
Bad for his overall level you mean? If not, I want to be that bad too.
On February 14 2008 19:37 Piste wrote: Anyone agrees with me that few valkyries could have turned this game in favor of Flash? I mean they could had dealt damage to mutalisks too.
Not sure here.
1. Mutas usually get their armor grades first, so the valk damage is handicapped severely, unless you upgrade your attack. 2. Valks are vulnerable to scourge, as they are quite expensive. 3. Spreading mutas can solve the valk problem to some extent.
I am sure that valks work in long games, for example in TvT if the opponent is massing wraiths, but in these tense games where every unit counts, you don't have the economy to build a critical mass of valks.
I think one or two could have helped support the wraiths, I'm not really expert enough to know though. They would suck if he just went valks instead of wraiths though.
Jaedong could afford to come out behind with each individual battle because he had so much of an economic advantage over Flash. He wasn't being careless in this match, just balancing more in favor of macro imo.
On February 14 2008 19:38 0xDEADBEEF wrote: Jaedong's speed and macro saved him here, but his micro and decision making was bad again, he lost a lot of units. He's bad today.
You saying his micro was bad that game? He lost a lot of unit due to Flash defending very well..
His micro was just amazing, he did screw up a little with the guardians, but by then he already had 4-5 expansion so I think he was safe anyway.
On February 14 2008 19:38 0xDEADBEEF wrote: Jaedong's speed and macro saved him here, but his micro and decision making was bad again, he lost a lot of units. He's bad today.
JD didnt need to micro that much he had 5 hatches going, 15 muts at a time Blue storm is too imbalanced, that mineral line at the nartural is way too difficult to defend to Ts agianst mut harras. Flash spent all his resources building turrets and marines trying to defend that natural against a handful of JD's muts
While JD was able to expand and tech without any pressure due to the constant mut harass pining Flash in his base. Bad play by Flash.
Fuck you Flash! Did he ever cross the middle of the map, except his scouting SCV? But Jesus he's really pushing Jaedong I think and yeah Jaedong looks almost beatable today with his play against a very strong playing Flash. Good contain though it was on Blue Storm. Going to be interesting to see how the other maps plays out.
Hoping for a Jaedong massacre of Flash with lots of swarm and ultras! But some long and epic games, great series!
On February 14 2008 19:38 0xDEADBEEF wrote: Jaedong's speed and macro saved him here, but his micro and decision making was bad again, he lost a lot of units. He's bad today.
Bad for his overall level you mean? If not, I want to be that bad too.
vessels might have been the answer. start off making 2 vessels then make the wraiths. a few less wraiths then to stop the guardians but he was cloaked anyway so i think he would have been able to fend that off, and then the vessels would have energy to make irri...
but i really dont know if it would have worked, or if he had the eco to do so. he was under preassure the entire time.
On February 14 2008 19:38 0xDEADBEEF wrote: Jaedong's speed and macro saved him here, but his micro and decision making was bad again, he lost a lot of units. He's bad today.
JD didnt need to micro that much he had 5 hatches going, 15 muts at a time Blue storm is too imbalanced, that mineral line at the nartural is way too difficult to defend to Ts agianst mut harras. Flash spent all his resources building turrets and marines trying to defend that natural against a handful of JD's muts
While JD was able to expand and tech without any pressure due to the constant mut harass pining Flash in his base. Bad play by Flash.
It wasn't bad play by Flash. I mean, if you look at another game on Blue Storm, Kwanro vs Canata, it ended earlier, because Canata isn't as good, yet Canata didn't do anything wrong. You need an ungodly amount of turrets to defend your min line on Blue Storm, and moving out is quite difficult, when they have muta harasses that goes and takes out 3/4 turrets even with rines defending.
There is not much Flash could have done against the near-perfect Muta harass. One always saw how much pressure there was. Jaedong was always trying to cause economic damage and to prevent this, Flash had to be running around, chasing, rebuild towers all the time. He lost marines and turrets because he was successful at not taking any economical damage.
valks take so much time to make. u need to gather quite a few (like 5-6 minimum) before using them (or they go down in a snap and which makes them unusable in a situation like this one where flash needed antiair immediately. maybe they're viable with a very well timed build but it would be a very specific "anti-mass muta" build and would suck vs other stuff I suppose
On February 14 2008 19:46 disciple wrote: offtopic : when will we see Bisu in the red uniform ?
I was wondering as well - maybe tomorrow if today was goodbye ceremony? Besides, it is not decided that he is going to be red, there is also a white outfit iirc.
On February 14 2008 19:38 buddhabeads wrote: flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
i dont think its a good idea to mech against 2 hatch muta... first you must have rines to protect the turrets, and if u start making goliaths it means u have a moment when your unit count is low, (u stop producing marines) and then he would be destroyed. flash did the right thing
The problem with MMs is that they get picked off way too easy. Each marine cost 50 minerals and they often die to one stacked mut attack without dealing any dmgs. Same goes with turrets, they get taken out too easy,
Flash only used one group of marines to defend against the mut harass he had another group waiting to push ou. I think he produced too many marines, once JD's muts reached a critical mass, marines become utterly useless.
On February 14 2008 19:38 buddhabeads wrote: flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
i dont think its a good idea to mech against 2 hatch muta... first you must have rines to protect the turrets, and if u start making goliaths it means u have a moment when your unit count is low, (u stop producing marines) and then he would be destroyed. flash did the right thing
The problem with MMs is that they get picked off way too easy. Each marine cost 50 minerals and they often die to one stacked mut attack without dealing any dmgs. Same goes with turrets, they get taken out too easy,
Flash only used one group of marines to defend against the mut harass he had another group waiting to push ou. I think he produced too many marines, once JD's muts reached a critical mass, marines become utterly useless.
On February 14 2008 19:38 buddhabeads wrote: flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
i dont think its a good idea to mech against 2 hatch muta... first you must have rines to protect the turrets, and if u start making goliaths it means u have a moment when your unit count is low, (u stop producing marines) and then he would be destroyed. flash did the right thing
The problem with MMs is that they get picked off way too easy. Each marine cost 50 minerals and they often die to one stacked mut attack without dealing any dmgs. Same goes with turrets, they get taken out too easy,
Flash only used one group of marines to defend against the mut harass he had another group waiting to push ou. I think he produced too many marines, once JD's muts reached a critical mass, marines become utterly useless.
what else can you do?
Seriously, what is with all of these monday morning quarterbacks. Going mech was not going to work.
On February 14 2008 19:38 buddhabeads wrote: flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
i dont think its a good idea to mech against 2 hatch muta... first you must have rines to protect the turrets, and if u start making goliaths it means u have a moment when your unit count is low, (u stop producing marines) and then he would be destroyed. flash did the right thing
The problem with MMs is that they get picked off way too easy. Each marine cost 50 minerals and they often die to one stacked mut attack without dealing any dmgs. Same goes with turrets, they get taken out too easy,
Flash only used one group of marines to defend against the mut harass he had another group waiting to push ou. I think he produced too many marines, once JD's muts reached a critical mass, marines become utterly useless.
Gollies are weak against Mutas due to their damage type Even with less range, rines are better.
On February 14 2008 19:38 buddhabeads wrote: flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
i dont think its a good idea to mech against 2 hatch muta... first you must have rines to protect the turrets, and if u start making goliaths it means u have a moment when your unit count is low, (u stop producing marines) and then he would be destroyed. flash did the right thing
The problem with MMs is that they get picked off way too easy. Each marine cost 50 minerals and they often die to one stacked mut attack without dealing any dmgs. Same goes with turrets, they get taken out too easy,
Flash only used one group of marines to defend against the mut harass he had another group waiting to push ou. I think he produced too many marines, once JD's muts reached a critical mass, marines become utterly useless.
i think he had 1 group in his main and 1 group in his expo , not waiting to get out but waiting for muta to arrive so he could attack them directly.
so he was preparing for the MU with Much in the MBC training camp? dunno...think Bisu will lose tomorrow because of the emotional ceremony today. Go Bisu !
On February 14 2008 19:38 buddhabeads wrote: flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
i dont think its a good idea to mech against 2 hatch muta... first you must have rines to protect the turrets, and if u start making goliaths it means u have a moment when your unit count is low, (u stop producing marines) and then he would be destroyed. flash did the right thing
The problem with MMs is that they get picked off way too easy. Each marine cost 50 minerals and they often die to one stacked mut attack without dealing any dmgs. Same goes with turrets, they get taken out too easy,
Flash only used one group of marines to defend against the mut harass he had another group waiting to push ou. I think he produced too many marines, once JD's muts reached a critical mass, marines become utterly useless.
what else can you do?
He seems to think you go goliaths vs mass mutas, even though they deal 9 damage to +1 mutas, cost 100/50 instead of 50/0, can't be healed quickly, are slow, and get owned by a mix of mutas and lings.
On February 14 2008 19:38 buddhabeads wrote: flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
i dont think its a good idea to mech against 2 hatch muta... first you must have rines to protect the turrets, and if u start making goliaths it means u have a moment when your unit count is low, (u stop producing marines) and then he would be destroyed. flash did the right thing
The problem with MMs is that they get picked off way too easy. Each marine cost 50 minerals and they often die to one stacked mut attack without dealing any dmgs. Same goes with turrets, they get taken out too easy,
Flash only used one group of marines to defend against the mut harass he had another group waiting to push ou. I think he produced too many marines, once JD's muts reached a critical mass, marines become utterly useless.
what else can you do?
He seems to think you go goliaths vs mass mutas, even though they deal 9 damage to +1 mutas, cost 100/50 instead of 50/0, can't be healed quickly, are slow, and get owned by a mix of mutas and lings.
On February 14 2008 19:38 buddhabeads wrote: flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
i dont think its a good idea to mech against 2 hatch muta... first you must have rines to protect the turrets, and if u start making goliaths it means u have a moment when your unit count is low, (u stop producing marines) and then he would be destroyed. flash did the right thing
The problem with MMs is that they get picked off way too easy. Each marine cost 50 minerals and they often die to one stacked mut attack without dealing any dmgs. Same goes with turrets, they get taken out too easy,
Flash only used one group of marines to defend against the mut harass he had another group waiting to push ou. I think he produced too many marines, once JD's muts reached a critical mass, marines become utterly useless.
what else can you do?
He seems to think you go goliaths vs mass mutas, even though they deal 9 damage to +1 mutas, cost 100/50 instead of 50/0, can't be healed quickly, are slow, and get owned by a mix of mutas and lings.
On February 14 2008 19:38 buddhabeads wrote: flash went for the wrong tactic there MM force no chance against mass muts once JD started producing muts flash shouldv switched to goliath and pushed out MM cant back up his wraiths
i dont think its a good idea to mech against 2 hatch muta... first you must have rines to protect the turrets, and if u start making goliaths it means u have a moment when your unit count is low, (u stop producing marines) and then he would be destroyed. flash did the right thing
The problem with MMs is that they get picked off way too easy. Each marine cost 50 minerals and they often die to one stacked mut attack without dealing any dmgs. Same goes with turrets, they get taken out too easy,
Flash only used one group of marines to defend against the mut harass he had another group waiting to push ou. I think he produced too many marines, once JD's muts reached a critical mass, marines become utterly useless.
what else can you do?
i guess we are yet to see any effective tactic against mut harrs where mineral lines are just beside a cliff.
It's all about critical mass. If the T player manage to put up enough defence to ward off the first harrass then concentrate on expanding and pushing out. Flash had about 5 or so turrents by the time JD came around with about 5 muts, i guess if Flahs had maybe a few more turrets up he wouldve held it off, but yer if the first mut harrass is successful then the T will always be on the backfoot.
Usually either the Z player stop producing muts or the T player is able to push out and put the Z player on the backfoot. You cant win games by defending alone.
Commentators sound like they like opera as Flash nearly kills Jaedong's scouting drone Flash loses his scouting drone Flash pushing out with an early group of units, 3 rines+medic+firebat Jaedong putting up spire 2 sunks in his nat, Flash retreats with out seeing them Flash adding 3 rax, making total of 5 rax Hydra Den going up for Jaedong
Spire seems to be fake he is getting hydras and probably lurkers subsequently. Flash with fac + addon and starport. First five lurkers morphing as a small mmf force stands at the front door.
Flash pushes out with more units, 9 rines and 2 medic, waiting for more units Jaedong has 3 sunks, one more building,Flash retreats Jaedong with 2 hatches Jaedong seemingly not building mutas, Flash scans and may have seen Hydras, I think he has Lurks morphing for Jaedong
Flash has 1 attack upgrade, Jaedong one defense, scouting Flash with a single mutalist. Flash getting a tank and meeting Jaedongs MOVING force at 6 expansion, shredding a ton of lings.
Flash with group of M&M outside of Jaedong's base, Flash building some tanks Jaedong goes and scouts with one muta, sees sci facil going up Jaedong sends many forces on the bottom map Flash has scouting SCV there Flash intercepts with group of rines, kills many lings, kills a lurker Jaedong expoing to inside nat at 9
Flash has 2 tanks, lots of MM and getting a vessel soon. Expanding to his natural. His timing is very good for the attack, although Jaedong is getting a defiler mound now.
Flash with large force Jaedong putting Defiler mound OH NOES DISCONNECT SCREEN Flash is going to move out, find about 8 lurks at top of ramp., moves them back a bit. Jaedong moves in with large group of lurkers and lings, loses 2 lurks, kills a large number of rines Flash attacks inside nat expo, force Jaedong to cnacel Jaedong attacks Flash with bad flank, loses many lings without doing anything, defiler goes up, forces flash to retreat.
Flash wins the battle lots of zerg splatter on the ground, why is JD assaulting without defiler? Now the first swarm covers lurkers and Flash retreats. Jaedong sneaks an expansion at bottom right.
Jaedong expands to 5 Jaedong counters, takes out a sci vessel with scourage, Flash moving his forces around the map from Jaedong's side to attack Flash has scouted the expo to 5, going to attack. Flash expands to 12 Skirmishes going up everywhere over the map Jaedong doing a decent job of keeping Flash's Vessel count low
Many firebats for Flash out! Jaedong with group of lurks outside of Flash's nat Jaedong expos to 11, Flash now realizes its there, but Jaedong positoned a lurker at the bottom of the ramp. Dark Swarm going up ouside of Flash's main, Flash losing mining time at nat Flash forced to lift CC at nat, bringing his forces back Flash taking out hatch at 11
Attack at Flash's natural, forces him to lift off his CC and recall his offensive force. Cleans it out with some losses. Meanwhile he killed all drones at JD's top left expansion and will get the hatch too.
11 goes down for Jaedong PLAGUU goes off on Flashes forces, Flash loses 2 vessels Jaedong expos to 6 Many rax for flash, around 10 Plagues continue to go off on Flashes forces Jaedong again counter attacks with small force ouside Flashs nat. Flash attacking 6 Flash loses large group of medics to lings after rines died. 6 lives, Flash clears the stuff outside his nat
I am not sure who is ahead. JD shows nice strategic play, but his economy is not_that_strong. Flash tries to take top left, but there is a drone there. The thing which should keep Flash in the game is the fact that he is almost on equal bases.
more vessels go down. Flash floats a CC over to 11 Jaedong sends a group of lings, prevents CC from landing Nice plagues going off on Flash's forces stream lags I see a swarm off on 12, flash forced to lift CC ULTRAS out for JAedong, Jaedong expos to 5 as well. Flash expands to inside nat.
Flash attacks 6, Jaedong forced to reveal ultras Flash nearly kills hatchery at 6, makes announcers yell. NICE PLAGUE for Jaedong Ultras raping Flash forces Flash relands CC at 12 and 11, but ultras attacking there now Flash loses many vessels
Keep going Snipin, my stream is off :/. Flash never really managed to get a vesselcloud going, that is why there are too many defilers and ultras around.
lings killing rines and SCV at 11 and 12 more good use of plagues, flash forced to lift 11 and 12, finally clears them. Flash floats Vessls over to kill defiler, loses many to scourage and a muta Jaedong attacking 12 again, Nice swarms going off, 12 lift off again, heading for 11 Flash going to counter by attacking inside expo of Jaedong.
Flash clears inside expo, but I think thats too little, too late Plague goes off on forces in Flash's nat, getting attacked by lurkers and ultras Flash GGs.
Right after Jaedong reached hive tech, it looked like he was hanging on for dear life. Once he was able to use defilers though, Flash just couldn't stop him
Wow, another tense game. Now for the map which JD thumbed - if Flash wins here, on Katrina there is EVERTHING possible. JD looked at a loss against the metal build, and I doubt he came up with a solution just now.
On February 14 2008 20:11 AnOth3rDAy wrote: this game is INSANE seriously best tvz ive ever seen, or close to it!
what the fuck are you talking about? flash is playing the sloppiest tvz ever.
You must be a flash fan :p
This is SICK
Flash is playing sloppy here, no idea what happened. He seriously needs to collect the pieces together.
flash played better than any other terran here. he was abit sloppy guess why. battles all over the mapp all the time intense intense, jaedong is better at multitasking.
if you dont think this was a good tvz then i suggest you stop watching pro gamers coz it wont get much better than this and u'll just get dissapointed.
On February 14 2008 20:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: flash's first big army was fucking MASSIVE i could hardly believe it, even crazier that jaedong didnt die to it
Key was forcing him to come back all the time through attacks on the natural. Ling / lurker / defiler can be scarily cost efficient.
On February 14 2008 20:20 Sunyveil wrote: Right after Jaedong reached hive tech, it looked like he was hanging on for dear life. Once he was able to use defilers though, Flash just couldn't stop him
lol. 3/4's of the game i was like, damn that's a huge fuckin' army for Flash. Then Defiler tech kicked in.
On February 14 2008 20:20 CDRdude wrote: LEE JAE DONG!!!!!!
Since you're like the 10th person to say it, I'll remind everyone that his name is Lee Je Dong, not Lee Jae Dong. His screen name is not the correct Romanization of his actual name.
I'm equally bothered by people who call savior "saviour"
On February 14 2008 20:11 AnOth3rDAy wrote: this game is INSANE seriously best tvz ive ever seen, or close to it!
what the fuck are you talking about? flash is playing the sloppiest tvz ever.
You must be a flash fan :p
This is SICK
Flash is playing sloppy here, no idea what happened. He seriously needs to collect the pieces together.
flash played better than any other terran here. he was abit sloppy guess why. battles all over the mapp all the time intense intense, jaedong is better at multitasking.
if you dont think this was a good tvz then i suggest you stop watching pro gamers coz it wont get much better than this and u'll just get dissapointed.
i've seen plenty of games that were better than this. terran getting greedy and trying to expand to three places within the span of 5 minutes, then losing all the new expansion, his army and momentum in the process does not count as "the best tvz ever" in my book.
Heh. It's crazy, Jaedong seems to thrive under pressure. If he loses the lead or looks shaky, he goes into monster mode and just rapes the shit out of his opponent.
On February 14 2008 20:22 Nick_54 wrote: These games are so fucking epic, the good news for us is we get to see them do it all again in a bo3 for OSL!!!
On February 14 2008 20:20 CDRdude wrote: LEE JAE DONG!!!!!!
Since you're like the 10th person to say it, I'll remind everyone that his name is Lee Je Dong, not Lee Jae Dong. His screen name is not the correct Romanization of his actual name.
I'm equally bothered by people who call savior "saviour"
you're one of those people who put a 'eo' where a 'u' is just fine
On February 14 2008 20:11 AnOth3rDAy wrote: this game is INSANE seriously best tvz ive ever seen, or close to it!
what the fuck are you talking about? flash is playing the sloppiest tvz ever.
You must be a flash fan :p
This is SICK
Flash is playing sloppy here, no idea what happened. He seriously needs to collect the pieces together.
flash played better than any other terran here. he was abit sloppy guess why. battles all over the mapp all the time intense intense, jaedong is better at multitasking.
if you dont think this was a good tvz then i suggest you stop watching pro gamers coz it wont get much better than this and u'll just get dissapointed.
i've seen plenty of games that were better than this. terran getting greedy and trying to expand to three places within the span of 5 minutes, then losing all the new expansion, his army and momentum in the process does not count as "the best tvz ever" in my book.
Flash's play was not bad. In the midgame, it was amazing that Jaedong did not die to that large force. For a while, Flash had map control. Then Jaedong just crushed everything.
On February 14 2008 20:20 CDRdude wrote: LEE JAE DONG!!!!!!
Since you're like the 10th person to say it, I'll remind everyone that his name is Lee Je Dong, not Lee Jae Dong. His screen name is not the correct Romanization of his actual name.
I'm equally bothered by people who call savior "saviour"
i'ma preface this by saying i am korean, and i'm not sure if this is true or not, but
i'm pretty sure there's no 'official' romanization of anything in Korean. I see random e's or missing e's everywhere.
On February 14 2008 20:23 0xDEADBEEF wrote: Heh. It's crazy, Jaedong seems to thrive under pressure. If he loses the lead or looks shaky, he goes into monster mode and just rapes the shit out of his opponent.
yeah, looks like losing the first game of a bo5 is his style
Zergs ability to fight economically with defilers really pays of when you can control them... I mean we saw several times how 1-2 ultras/lurkers and a handful of lings just shut down the expansions of Flash...
On February 14 2008 20:11 AnOth3rDAy wrote: this game is INSANE seriously best tvz ive ever seen, or close to it!
what the fuck are you talking about? flash is playing the sloppiest tvz ever.
You must be a flash fan :p
This is SICK
Flash is playing sloppy here, no idea what happened. He seriously needs to collect the pieces together.
flash played better than any other terran here. he was abit sloppy guess why. battles all over the mapp all the time intense intense, jaedong is better at multitasking.
if you dont think this was a good tvz then i suggest you stop watching pro gamers coz it wont get much better than this and u'll just get dissapointed.
i've seen plenty of games that were better than this. terran getting greedy and trying to expand to three places within the span of 5 minutes, then losing all the new expansion, his army and momentum in the process does not count as "the best tvz ever" in my book.
it was so exciting, so id say its one of the best, not the best. and definately a GG not a fucking "gg"... but ok, u didnt like it. Fine, now lets watch the next game;)
On February 14 2008 20:11 AnOth3rDAy wrote: this game is INSANE seriously best tvz ive ever seen, or close to it!
what the fuck are you talking about? flash is playing the sloppiest tvz ever.
You must be a flash fan :p
This is SICK
Flash is playing sloppy here, no idea what happened. He seriously needs to collect the pieces together.
flash played better than any other terran here. he was abit sloppy guess why. battles all over the mapp all the time intense intense, jaedong is better at multitasking.
if you dont think this was a good tvz then i suggest you stop watching pro gamers coz it wont get much better than this and u'll just get dissapointed.
i've seen plenty of games that were better than this. terran getting greedy and trying to expand to three places within the span of 5 minutes, then losing all the new expansion, his army and momentum in the process does not count as "the best tvz ever" in my book.
you have got to be fucking kidding me
do you know ANYTHING about TvZ? Flash's build was fucking incredible, didnt you see the size of his first midgame army? and the way he could support like 10 rax and 2 port for the entire game?
there wasn't a damn thing wrong with Flash's build, Jaedong just had perfect defiler use
On February 14 2008 20:20 CDRdude wrote: LEE JAE DONG!!!!!!
Since you're like the 10th person to say it, I'll remind everyone that his name is Lee Je Dong, not Lee Jae Dong. His screen name is not the correct Romanization of his actual name.
I'm equally bothered by people who call savior "saviour"
you're one of those people who put a 'eo' where a 'u' is just fine
"park jeong seok" my ass
What is Romanisation but an approximation of the korean script? Lee Jae Dong fighting!
On February 14 2008 20:20 CDRdude wrote: LEE JAE DONG!!!!!!
Since you're like the 10th person to say it, I'll remind everyone that his name is Lee Je Dong, not Lee Jae Dong. His screen name is not the correct Romanization of his actual name.
I'm equally bothered by people who call savior "saviour"
you're one of those people who put a 'eo' where a 'u' is just fine
"park jeong seok" my ass
Well that's kind of pointless here, because "Je" is not only the correct Romanization, but also the phonetic spelling (since modern Korean pronounces both ae and e the same). So whether the point is to be phonetically correct or linguistically correct, "Je" is right in both cases.
Lings brought down the bunker, Jaedong chasing, Flash retreating. Flash has expansion and academy however, he is looking stable although he just wasted lots of stuff on a bunker rush.
Jaedong tries to break through, 3 lings make it, he has some more outside of Flashs natural
Flash barely holds his ramp with firebats against a stream of lings.
Also, Flash's vessels never reached a high amount, if he had more vessels at the begninning, he could of dealt with the deflier usage a lot better imo.
Flash had to lift his natural, he has some firebats now to deal with the lings. Jaedong finally teching to lair. Clears out his natural and lifts the CC again.
Well, that was an amazin series, though I would have liked to see it go to game 5. The rest of JD's matchups are prefigured now: Next round a terran, finals a Protoss. He will be the huge favourite against both, Nada and Mind.
On February 14 2008 20:36 Aesop wrote: Well, that was an amazin series, though I would have liked to see it go to game 5. The rest of JD's matchups are prefigured now: Next round a terran, finals a Protoss. He will be the huge favourite against both, Nada and Mind.
Put him as favorite.. let NaDa go as underdog.. and he will overcome all, like he always did :D! I BELIEVE
damn, this is so frustrating... i have no particular preference for flash, or any particular dislike for jaedong, but somehow this series managed to be a huge let-down. guess i was just too hyped after the frist two games, and then one of the players sort of stopped playing.
Flash also had Jaedong on the edge in that 4th game. If his rush had been a little more successful, he would have destroyed the expansion and would have had his own natural up. From this position, he could have played conservatively and go for an easy win.
If you think Flash sucked in these games, you are hugely underestimating Jaedong. Terran can only react during some stages of the game, that is how the TvZ matchup works, i.e. once Mutas are out. Flash reacted pretty well, but you can't blame him for not looking spectacular while doing so.
seriously i think the cheese was good for the series, however i would'nt have liked it to end in a cheese. But a bo5 without a bunkerrush + scv and TEH DRAMA is not perfect!
On February 14 2008 20:44 Aesop wrote: Flash also had Jaedong on the edge in that 4th game. If his rush had been a little more successful, he would have destroyed the expansion and would have had his own natural up. From this position, he could have played conservatively and go for an easy win.
I disagree with that I don´t think Jaedong would have lost that expansion, no matter what
I wonder if Jaedong can do a previously unheard of (?) triple and be the reigning champion in OSL, MSL and Proleague?
As it is now, the only players I see that could maybe stop him is Mind (mostly because he has to have something special, winning last MSL) and Bisu (good pvz maps and if Bisu still has the confidence to battle it out straight up).
Of course he could still loose the proleague final aswell..
On February 14 2008 22:37 Adamthegreat wrote: As it is now, the only players I see that could maybe stop him is Mind (mostly because he has to have something special, winning last MSL) and Bisu (good pvz maps and if Bisu still has the confidence to battle it out straight up).
potentially Kal too, I would say, in the MSL final
just watched the tribute to Bisu and must say that I like him even more. Sea's reaction was enough to show what MBC Hero Team is- bunch of young and promising progamers, a bunch of friends. I hope to see tomorrow Bisu in his brightest light. GL Kim-Taek Yong and MBC Game rulz....
On February 14 2008 18:42 Alethios wrote: Like this guy's play... but thats about all. Such an arrogant prick, your crying makes me so embarrassed.
Start up the MSL finals!
Lol such fucking hypocrites. As if calling someone "such an arrogant prick" and adding "your crying makes me so embarassed" isn't about as arrogant and prickish as you can get. If you don't like Bisu thats fine, but you sure are quick to judge someone you know almost nothing about. Or at LEAST pick your spots for sharing it a lot better. That was random/out of nowhere/ and completely uncalled for.
You might be a nice guy for example, but what you just wrote makes you seem like a huge douche bag. Actually several douch bags, arranged in some sort of "douche gift box set". However I won't jump to conclusions about it.
On February 14 2008 18:42 Alethios wrote: Like this guy's play... but thats about all. Such an arrogant prick, your crying makes me so embarrassed.
Start up the MSL finals!
Lol such fucking hypocrites. As if calling someone "such an arrogant prick" and adding "your crying makes me so embarassed" isn't about as arrogant and prickish as you can get. If you don't like Bisu thats fine, but you sure are quick to judge someone you know almost nothing about. Or at LEAST pick your spots for sharing it a lot better. That was random/out of nowhere/ and completely uncalled for.
You might be a nice guy for example, but what you just wrote makes you seem like a huge douche bag. Actually several douch bags, arranged in some sort of "douche gift box set". However I won't jump to conclusions about it.
hehe, take it easy he already had like 10 people jumping at him for that one and he took it back:O
On February 14 2008 22:37 Adamthegreat wrote: I wonder if Jaedong can do a previously unheard of (?) triple and be the reigning champion in OSL, MSL and Proleague?
As it is now, the only players I see that could maybe stop him is Mind (mostly because he has to have something special, winning last MSL) and Bisu (good pvz maps and if Bisu still has the confidence to battle it out straight up).
Of course he could still loose the proleague final aswell..
Since the creation of joint held proleague, only three players came close to doing that near impossible feat. Oov was the first and the closest to achieving it (OSL 1st place, MSL 3rd place, Proleague R2 1st place), but Savior stopped him cold in the MSL. Savior himself almost did it (OSL 1st place, MSL 2nd place, Proleague R2 2nd place) but his team failed him in the play-offs even though he won and as we all know Bisu bested him in the MSL finals. Stork came pretty close too (OSL 3rd place, MSL 2nd place, Proleague R1 1st place) but choked in the individual leagues.
On February 14 2008 21:43 HaXxorIzed wrote: Time to watch the vods and see if Flash could have played game3 to get moar vessels. I missed that bit, so it's time for some education.
I think he would have had enough vessels if he didn't lose all 1500 of them. His play this series (this entire tournament actually) has been very entertaining, but he didn't take good care of his vessels. Or more accurately Jaedong was forcing him to do so much at the same time that he wasn't able to take care of his vessels.
This felt like the Midas and Hwasin vs. Savior games where Savior was pushed to the limit, but in the end, won just because he has the mojo going. You could feel the momentum change (on Loki) the moment Jaedong got swarm, and with every swarm, you could feel the balance tip closer and closer to Jaedong's favour, kinda like how Savior used to change the momentum with his insane defensive swarms
As "weak" a lineup as this MSL has had, I think it's actually gonna be an interesting road for Jaedong. Facing Luxury, the second best ZvZ, Flash, one of the hottest players in pro gaming (who other than Jaedong and maybe Stork and Much is on as much of a streak as Flash?), and potentially Mind, last season's giant killer and finally Kal (some say he's the next Bisu, atleast PvZ-wise. I think it's reasonable to think he's very close to second best in PvZ)
Jaedong's road to the championship is looking pretty interesting, as dry as the rest of the tournament has been.
Jon747 was an account made by.... I can't remember right now, but someone from TLnet.
BaeZZi was uploading on the account BaeZZi on Youtube, but started getting frustrated from their video limits, so we gave him the Jon747 account. It's technically a shared account.
On February 15 2008 15:59 Live2Win wrote: Jon747 was an account made by.... I can't remember right now, but someone from TLnet.
BaeZZi was uploading on the account BaeZZi on Youtube, but started getting frustrated from their video limits, so we gave him the Jon747 account. It's technically a shared account.
VioleTAK (whose own account is now used by diggity etc.)
If anything, this series reassures my belief that Flash is *really good*. The way he put up with the _extreme_ pressure JD was putting on him was just magnificent, he came a long way since his days of cheesing bisu on Monty Hall.
I wish GOM had a stat tracker like OGN, but did anyone notice how low Jaedong's drone count was in g3? I think his main was the only place there was a worker on each patch. I guess he tried to avoid the big mineral surplus most zergs have mid-late game, and save his larva.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://teamliquid.net/staff/KizZBG/gomtvmsls4banner.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/liquibet/players/Jaedong.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/liquibet/players/By.Flash.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/showImage.asp?realFile=FFNEWS20080214191016001.JPEG)
![[image loading]](http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/787/fuuckflashlasersap4.gif)
