On April 30 2025 02:18 iFU.pauline wrote: These approximations were due to lack of consistent training obviously. Will he ever put the effort into it? I watch his stream almost everyday, he doesn't play much games. That is acceptable vs protoss but it won't cut it vs best terrans the mu is too difficult.
Jaedong practiced plenty. It is not about "didn't practice enough". Everyone practices more than people here on TL or in the foreigner community give them credit for. Not all losses or wins come down to "didn't practice enough". That's a bogus claim. The player performing better on stage wins, regardless of how much they did or did not practice.
Jaedong for example has 100 matches, 51 wins, 49 losses recorded for April on eloboard, which is excluding the probably 24-48 games he's played offline with his practice partners for just this Round of 8 alone. That is excluding brainstorming and vod study.
He does not practice plenty, 100 matches in a month? You call that plenty? Are you kidding? Plenty is at least 10 to 15 games a day as a zerg minimum. He is nowhere near that. No need to speculate about offline games, there is no way to assert this.
based on your argument not a single pro practices hard enough. Not a single pro plays 10-15 games per day everday. I've kept close track of pro activity for a few years now and very rarely do they play over 10 games a day. Usually only when they get on Ultimate Battle, the Chinese variant of it, or in the few days leading up to their ASL play day. Quantity =/= Quality.
I watch zergs stream everyday, if not proleague hero zero and soulkey are playing way more often meanwhile JD watches kor babe playing sc. I won't talk about protoss or terran coze I don't watch them. And yes, 10 games a day is a minimum to talk about "plenty". Are you arguing on this? I also can assure you than JD doesn't play more than anyone on teamliquid starting with me for the past 3 months lol. 100 games a month is 3.3 games a day as average, and yes, that's what you find on a 8 hours JD's stream indeed. Furthermore, even if other pro would do as average 6 games a day, that is still almost twice the practice volume of JD, you would expect this to have an impact at some point. Finally, the average game length for zerg is around 12minutes, 6 games a day is not such a big effort, that's not even close to "grinding". You start at 8pm and at 10pm you are already in bed.
On April 30 2025 02:18 iFU.pauline wrote: These approximations were due to lack of consistent training obviously. Will he ever put the effort into it? I watch his stream almost everyday, he doesn't play much games. That is acceptable vs protoss but it won't cut it vs best terrans the mu is too difficult.
Jaedong practiced plenty. It is not about "didn't practice enough". Everyone practices more than people here on TL or in the foreigner community give them credit for. Not all losses or wins come down to "didn't practice enough". That's a bogus claim. The player performing better on stage wins, regardless of how much they did or did not practice.
Jaedong for example has 100 matches, 51 wins, 49 losses recorded for April on eloboard, which is excluding the probably 24-48 games he's played offline with his practice partners for just this Round of 8 alone. That is excluding brainstorming and vod study.
He does not practice plenty, 100 matches in a month? You call that plenty? Are you kidding? Plenty is at least 10 to 15 games a day as a zerg minimum. He is nowhere near that. No need to speculate about offline games, there is no way to assert this.
no one consistently plays 10-15 games a day now. what a stupid point to make. jd didnt lose because he didnt practice enough. his main practice partner was flash for this round and if you watch flash's commentary all you hear is flash saying "we practiced this scenario" in every game. in the last game for example, flash specifically called out the bunker rush prior to it happening because he and jd specifically prepared for it and flash told jd how to defend it, which was to do a 4 ling runby past the bunkers to cut marine reinforcements, then bust the bunker rush with 8-12 zerglings. the early drone search was also planned because terrans dont want to play against mutas on that map and so it was worth sending out a drone to eliminate 8 rax. even in the followup scenario where jd gets bunker rushed from 10 rax, jd would still be ahead if he defended as he did during practice. jd fucked up the runby by letting 2 zerglings die because he decided to snipe a scv on the way and those 2 zerglings made the difference.
it just wasnt jd's day. he got to the arena 10 mins before the match started because he forgot the usb to his mouse and had to go home to get it. the stars just werent aligning for him. in his post match interview he said he thinks he maybe lost because he actually practiced too much. he was overthinking things rather than just playing instinctively, which is what jd does best and what gives him his signature aggressive play. he won game 4 because he was just pissed at himself and said "fuck it". he would have won game 1 if he just played as per usual but his practice games gave him the idea that he could just play safe and win from his advantageous position.
Yes. Thanks for the insight. The foreign community really needs someone who speaks Korean to provide these tidbits. So many misinformation and misconceptions because no one knows whats the pros are saying.
On April 30 2025 02:18 iFU.pauline wrote: These approximations were due to lack of consistent training obviously. Will he ever put the effort into it? I watch his stream almost everyday, he doesn't play much games. That is acceptable vs protoss but it won't cut it vs best terrans the mu is too difficult.
Jaedong practiced plenty. It is not about "didn't practice enough". Everyone practices more than people here on TL or in the foreigner community give them credit for. Not all losses or wins come down to "didn't practice enough". That's a bogus claim. The player performing better on stage wins, regardless of how much they did or did not practice.
Jaedong for example has 100 matches, 51 wins, 49 losses recorded for April on eloboard, which is excluding the probably 24-48 games he's played offline with his practice partners for just this Round of 8 alone. That is excluding brainstorming and vod study.
He does not practice plenty, 100 matches in a month? You call that plenty? Are you kidding? Plenty is at least 10 to 15 games a day as a zerg minimum. He is nowhere near that. No need to speculate about offline games, there is no way to assert this.
no one consistently plays 10-15 games a day now. what a stupid point to make. jd didnt lose because he didnt practice enough. his main practice partner was flash for this round and if you watch flash's commentary all you hear is flash saying "we practiced this scenario" in every game. in the last game for example, flash specifically called out the bunker rush prior to it happening because he and jd specifically prepared for it and flash told jd how to defend it, which was to do a 4 ling runby past the bunkers to cut marine reinforcements, then bust the bunker rush with 8-12 zerglings. the early drone search was also planned because terrans dont want to play against mutas on that map and so it was worth sending out a drone to eliminate 8 rax. even in the followup scenario where jd gets bunker rushed from 10 rax, jd would still be ahead if he defended as he did during practice. jd fucked up the runby by letting 2 zerglings die because he decided to snipe a scv on the way and those 2 zerglings made the difference.
it just wasnt jd's day. he got to the arena 10 mins before the match started because he forgot the usb to his mouse and had to go home to get it. the stars just werent aligning for him. in his post match interview he said he thinks he maybe lost because he actually practiced too much. he was overthinking things rather than just playing instinctively, which is what jd does best and what gives him his signature aggressive play. he won game 4 because he was just pissed at himself and said "fuck it". he would have won game 1 if he just played as per usual but his practice games gave him the idea that he could just play safe and win from his advantageous position.
That first game was awesome, one of the best this ASL for sure. Just too bad to see JD fall apart afterward. Still proud of him for making it to the Ro8 though.
On April 30 2025 22:16 Ideas wrote: That first game was awesome, one of the best this ASL for sure. Just too bad to see JD fall apart afterward. Still proud of him for making it to the Ro8 though.
Yeah it was a masterclass from both sides, though i think Jaedong would have been inspired to go for the jugular earlier. The wraith ctrl group to counter queens was extremely cool. It felt a bit like mech was dead when Zergs started to build queens consistently, it’s nice to see that Terrans actually have plenty of resources to Keri that part of the meta going.
On April 30 2025 15:17 iFU.pauline wrote: I watch zergs stream everyday, if not proleague hero zero and soulkey are playing way more often meanwhile JD watches kor babe playing sc. I won't talk about protoss or terran coze I don't watch them. And yes, 10 games a day is a minimum to talk about "plenty". Are you arguing on this? I also can assure you than JD doesn't play more than anyone on teamliquid starting with me for the past 3 months lol. 100 games a month is 3.3 games a day as average, and yes, that's what you find on a 8 hours JD's stream indeed. Furthermore, even if other pro would do as average 6 games a day, that is still almost twice the practice volume of JD, you would expect this to have an impact at some point. Finally, the average game length for zerg is around 12minutes, 6 games a day is not such a big effort, that's not even close to "grinding". You start at 8pm and at 10pm you are already in bed.
You may want to fact check first before coming out with such strong argument, because in April, the only player who has more registered games than JD (100) is Queen (123). Hero has 93, Soulkey 64, Action 29 (lol). For the other races, we have Light 29 (lol), Snow 59, Speed 66, Royal 38, Best 89, Bisu 53, Sharp 42, Mini 91, Barracks 84, Rush 98 etc.
Obviously some of them ladder more than others, and may also have some games offstream, but so does JD.
It may come as a shock for many with those numbers because it means progamers these days average around 1-3 games per day. But that's the truth. And let's say they play ladder and offstream as much then it barely becomes 2-6 games per day max.
Your 10-15 games estimation was probably from Kespa era and has no longer been the case for years.
On May 01 2025 06:04 TMNT wrote:Obviously some of them ladder more than others, and may also have some games offstream, but so does JD.
then what the f are you talking about
What do you mean lol. And why the aggression?
Based on the tone I would interpret your post as disagreement, as in "you don't know wtf you are talking about, the truth is...." but what is your truth then? Do you have a tally of pros' games on and offstream, or do you have evidence that everyone is playing 10-15 games per day, or do you have evidence that JD is playing less than most of the pros???
On May 01 2025 06:04 TMNT wrote:Obviously some of them ladder more than others, and may also have some games offstream, but so does JD.
then what the f are you talking about
What do you mean lol. And why the aggression?
Based on the tone I would interpret your post as disagreement, as in "you don't know wtf you are talking about, the truth is...." but what is your truth then? Do you have a tally of pros' games on and offstream, or do you have evidence that everyone is playing 10-15 games per day, or do you have evidence that JD is playing less than most of the pros???
I know little about korean pros life and habits, but streaming is their main income, right? Why would they play 1 game (12 minutes in average) a day? That doesn’t make too much sense.
It’s obvious also that ASL is extremely important to most of them, i You would think that they spend at least a few hours a day training for it? I assume ladder games must be but a fraction of how much they actually play.
On May 01 2025 06:04 TMNT wrote:Obviously some of them ladder more than others, and may also have some games offstream, but so does JD.
then what the f are you talking about
What do you mean lol. And why the aggression?
Based on the tone I would interpret your post as disagreement, as in "you don't know wtf you are talking about, the truth is...." but what is your truth then? Do you have a tally of pros' games on and offstream, or do you have evidence that everyone is playing 10-15 games per day, or do you have evidence that JD is playing less than most of the pros???
I know little about korean pros life and habits, but streaming is their main income, right? Why would they play 1 game (12 minutes in average) a day? That doesn’t make too much sense.
It’s obvious also that ASL is extremely important to most of them, i You would think that they spend at least a few hours a day training for it? I assume ladder games must be but a fraction of how much they actually play.
Well, the numbers are there for anyone to see, so no need to speculate. For example, cwal.gg shows Snow played 64 games on ladder last month. Combined that with 59 games recorded on eloboard, you have 123. Assuming he has a few dozens of offstream games, then the total number should be around 150, so 5 games per day. And Snow is among the more prolific ones. For example Mini literally never ladders at all.
It's not strange at all if you watch their stream. For example lately they would often start around 7pm and finish around 1-2 am. The first few hours are spent on watching JPL (the university league), then if there's a Proleague they would play 2-4 games each. After Proleague some would just turn off the stream and some would play UMS maps or other games. If they play the Ultimate Battle then it's 7-9 games. But keep in mind they neither have Proleague, Ultimate Battle nor stream everyday, so divide those numbers by a factor of 2,4 or 6 I don't know. Then add the number of odd spongames or ladder and you get the final number.
On April 30 2025 02:52 Highgamer wrote: Tbh I just hope he takes it well and continues to have fun with BW and his stream. He made ro8, that's no small feat. He's not getting younger, it's great that he's still playing at this level. I don't need to see him grinding and practicing all the time.
I think is this a proper comment. JD has got nothing to prove. He won 8 premier tournaments where as Light only won 2.
Given the fact that they are identical in age and started their pro careers back in 2006 - that is a huge prestige for JD. Let that sink in to everyone!
Sure, i felt disappointed in they way JD lost to Light where it mattered the most, but then i also got a satisfaction of how he beat Light 4-0 in SOOP duel series (from half a year ago, i do not care). Just the fact that JD CAN beat the best terran on earth like that is big.
On April 30 2025 02:52 Highgamer wrote: Tbh I just hope he takes it well and continues to have fun with BW and his stream. He made ro8, that's no small feat. He's not getting younger, it's great that he's still playing at this level. I don't need to see him grinding and practicing all the time.
I think is this a proper comment. JD has got nothing to prove. He won 8 premier tournaments where as Light only won 2.
Given the fact that they are identical in age and started their pro careers back in 2006 - that is a huge prestige for JD. Let that sink in to everyone!
Sure, i felt disappointed in they way JD lost to Light where it mattered the most, but then i also got a satisfaction of how he beat Light 4-0 in SOOP duel series (from half a year ago, i do not care). Just the fact that JD CAN beat the best terran on earth like that is big.
Jaedong wants to prove he can still do it. but he is missing some of the awareness + more advanced decision making your see in specifically Light, Soulkey, and SnOw, but sometimes also in Best, Queen, Mini, Rain and HerO. They have grown just a bit beyond where Jaedong is.
It's just unfortunate he faced Light right away which was by far his worst opponent, would have hardly gone this way against an other zerg or protoss. I think next time he should play 1 game a day and wait for the "stars to be aligned", that should be "plenty" enough of practice and see how that plays out to fill the gap.
On May 02 2025 16:43 iFU.pauline wrote: It's just unfortunate he faced Light right away which was by far his worst opponent, would have hardly gone this way against an other zerg or protoss. I think next time he should play 1 game a day and wait for the "stars to be aligned", that should be "plenty" enough of practice and see how that plays out to fill the gap.
Never forget. It took Soulkey 5 seasons to win his first title. Although the run up was more exhilarating to watch than even Queen. You either die a hero, or see yourself become the Tyrant.
JD and Soulkey are the most decisive players in ASL
Soulkey commits when he sees an opening JD commits when he feels like it
It used to work for JD 15 years ago, now it doesn't Idk why he commits to random stuff like not building an extra sunken, not blocking a bunker rush with drones, and bad attacks that wipe his army
On May 03 2025 01:30 ruhtraeel wrote: JD and Soulkey are the most decisive players in ASL
Soulkey commits when he sees an opening JD commits when he feels like it
It used to work for JD 15 years ago, now it doesn't Idk why he commits to random stuff like not building an extra sunken, not blocking a bunker rush with drones, and bad attacks that wipe his army
Don't fret. You are only too young. They were once young, too. I remember even with everything Jaedong did, he only plotted July's history all this while. In fact, you can pinpoint every other zerg on this plotline from July>Jaedong>Zero. I wonder if dominant zergs will survive, the current ones are rather reactive than proactive in my opinion. The games that Jaedong almost played on the backs of zerglings and lurkers... You cannot find control like that making your army look like a bunch of peasant riot, but win. That absolute mockery through simplicity. I think what I meant to say is, Jaedong is to zerg what Flash is to Bisu and his vulture cheese. Those two just hadn't been done before.
EPT
