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On September 12 2023 08:42 omahahowitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2023 07:49 Bonyth wrote:
I watch Bisu a lot, and to me, it feels like he doesn't have confidence in ground army playstyle vs terran and will switch to carriers sooner or later. Can't blame him, it's also pretty much a trend now as well.
Direct causes for his losses? Polypoid --> vulture raids, that was enough to set the game. Invader --> micro with reavers not good enough / not enough value. His engagement was also bad, maybe he got his obs sniped, i don't know; it's always easy to judge with maphack ; Slow zealots is pretty normal at this stage of the game.
His mistakes weren't that numerous. It's sad for me that u judge the players, and not the games. as a low level player, his engage on Invader made no sense because a) he can see Terran does not have a 3rd base yet with 6 fact, b) he only had 6 gateways and 2 carriers making so does not have army advantage. Seems like he should just buy time as long as possible until carriers and interceptors. since you know more about the game, do you disagree and think it was a good decision to engage and just bad execution?
well, i mentioned in my previous message that the engagement was bad, there is no sugarcoating it. But he needed to engage somewhere, at least partially, engage, do damage with reavers, trade zealots, then disengage. Meanwhile Bisu seemed lost with his 2 shuttles, that were both killed all too easily and engaged when terran was in ok position to receive him.
Until the moment of engagement his reavers werent used enough either. Such a build really need some good work in micro, with reavers, or favorable engagements and Bisu certainly failed to show that.
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konadora
Singapore66156 Posts
On September 11 2023 22:42 Gorsameth wrote:Then he should have played better.
yeah not defending him, sad that after Ample won, he lost so one-sidedly lol
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Netherlands4980 Posts
ASL is peak BW for the broadest audience, like OSL and MSL was before. People will judge players based on their performance, the opponent they lost to with former glory or performances in mind as well. They always have. Same happens to any professional in sports with an audience.
The same would happen to you, Dewalt, Sziky, Gypsy etc. if Artosis would knock you out of the BSL in a bo3 losers bracket. It doesn't mean a player's former glory doesn't get respect anymore, just not at that moment in time.
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Netherlands4980 Posts
Poll: Recommend Final Game Set 3?Yes (4) 57% No (2) 29% If you have time (1) 14% 7 total votes Your vote: Recommend Final Game Set 3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): If you have time
(Vote): No
^Please vote for anti-spoiler purposes!
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Fill her up, lads.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/btbej.jpg)
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Northern Ireland24999 Posts
On September 12 2023 19:46 RowdierBob wrote:Fill her up, lads.
Only so many tears one can shed.
Nyoken and eonzerg still handhold me a bit on things like timings, and hey I’m on a forum of BW vets and I’m not a huge fan of talking out of my ass when others are more knowledgeable.
I get Soulkey is a better player but I’m unsure why so much of the crit is focusing on the Ample games when Bisu’s play was seemingly worse to me.
Missing that solo lurker, sure bad but people do miss things.
Brainlessly headbutting a ridiculously well-defended spot when you could have disengaged or circled to top left if you wanted to be aggressive, baffling to even a layman or am I missing something? After a decent defence of a hydra bust that put him in a good spot.
Versus Ample he takes a game, puts up a pretty good fight after being hugely behind, game 3 again another more ‘big picture’ tactical blunder.
It’s not like he’s got way mechanically slower and just can’t keep up with the young ‘uns anymore, he’s making terrible tactical decisions for engagements or transitions
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I can hear TMNT grinding his teeth anticipating a JyJ championship vs all these Zs.
Friendly bants aside, my boys SK and hero repping hard, although hero didn't look 100% to me.
@Wombat, I kind of disagree. Execution from Bisu is very far from his young Bruce Lee self, and he isn't big on the strategy part.
My case would be similar for JD, known for his aggressive style, which just doesn't cut it in 2023. Defensive Zerg is way stronger nowadays with all the optimizations, see SK, Action, hero.
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Dang, hero had equal supply to Ample when his mutas hit in those games. Surely terran needs to be ahead in supply, because zerg is just going to get many 'free' scv kills. Not that I know what to suggest...
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On September 11 2023 22:05 BLinD-RawR wrote:
dude's so washed.
YES. THIS IS MY RANT ON BISU. I'VE HAD ENOUGH...
In all of 16 seasons of ASL, i have NEVER seen Bisu perform this BAD!!!
His builds were garbage (expanding and carrier building at the same after loosing 2 of your reavers is a dumb move).
His reaver micro is not even close to Snow (Rain and Mini are at least close to Snow in that regard).
He has shown no decisiveness when it comes to critical action (he should have immediately counter-attacked Ample with the carriers instead of wasting time with them in his main base and loosing interceptors). He was very lucky to win game 1.
He would loose dragoons to mines even when he had observers around them (only F - B rank players do that).
He has no game sense (could not predict even basic vulture harassment into open natural expansion).
He always takes the biggest fucking amout of risks possible (even when he saw Soulkey's hydras too late he still was reluctant to build more canons to be safe and almost lost the game).
His macro was shit (there is nothing to comment here).
He is an idiot too (he expands towards a zerg base instead of deploying a safe base close to his natural expansion.
He is playing in minimized screen format - ok, now a lot of players like to play at 4:3 format, nothing to blame here, but Bisu is the only guy, who plays at minimized 4:3 screen instead of full 4:3 screen. I don't care what he says, but he obviously compromises himself in doing that and deeply believes his own shit that this is way to play... I mean - he sees only like 800x600 pixels in the center on a full 1920x1080 monitor and it's just fine... I don't believe that!
I've never been so mad at Bisu! This round totally changed my mind about him. I almost want him to retire now. I still think he could get his shit together (unlike Stork, who is washed up beyond the returning point and does not know when to quit, lmao). Of course that does not mean i like Mini more - how can you like a guy (as a straight man) who grows fucking nails and has these convulsions whenever he is loosing? He just makes me uncomfortable.
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On September 13 2023 20:29 Artas1984 wrote:YES. THIS IS MY RANT ON BISU. I'VE HAD ENOUGH... In all of 16 seasons of ASL, i have NEVER seen Bisu perform this BAD!!! His builds were garbage (expanding and carrier building at the same after loosing 2 of your reavers is a dumb move). His reaver micro is not even close to Snow (Rain and Mini are at least close to Snow in that regard). He has shown no decisiveness when it comes to critical action (he should have immediately counter-attacked Ample with the carriers instead of wasting time with them in his main base and loosing interceptors). He was very lucky to win game 1. He would loose dragoons to mines even when he had observers around them (only F - B rank players do that). He has no game sense (could not predict even basic vulture harassment into open natural expansion). He always takes the biggest fucking amout of risks possible (even when he saw Soulkey's hydras too late he still was reluctant to build more canons to be safe and almost lost the game). His macro was shit (there is nothing to comment here). He is an idiot too (he expands towards a zerg base instead of deploying a safe base close to his natural expansion. He is playing in minimized screen format - ok, now a lot of players like to play at 4:3 format, nothing to blame here, but Bisu is the only guy, who plays at minimized 4:3 screen instead of full 4:3 screen. I don't care what he says, but he obviously compromises himself in doing that and deeply believes his own shit that this is way to play... I mean - he sees only like 800x600 pixels in the center on a full 1920x1080 monitor and it's just fine... I don't believe that! I've never been so mad at Bisu! This round totally changed my mind about him. I almost want him to retire now. I still think he could get his shit together (unlike Stork, who is washed up beyond the returning point and does not know when to quit, lmao). Of course that does not mean i like Mini more - how can you like a guy (as a straight man) who grows fucking nails and has these convulsions whenever he is loosing? He just makes me uncomfortable.
take a chill pill mate
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That random hate toward mini, chill lmao.
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In this context it's "lose", not "loose". Common mistake.
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Chill mate. He just had a bad day. Dude is still 50% (at least) vs virtually everyone in the Major Proleague. Go watch Proleague and pretend ASL16 Ro16 Group C never happened.
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Convulsions whenever he's losing? I don't think you were ever a fan of Bisu, ma boy. You sound like you always hated him.
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On September 14 2023 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:
Convulsions whenever he's losing? I don't think you were ever a fan of Bisu, ma boy. You sound like you always hated him.
I was talking about Mini, not Bisu... You know.. Mini's grotesque twitches in the chair? Ye, that type of stuff...
Anyway, i have been a fan of Bisu since i've known about him! That is exactly why i am so mad! How would you feel if your top 3 favorite protoss of all time, who is considered the headliner of all protoss, performs so poor? It's unacceptable. If you think i am too hard on him, you should watch some of Pusan's savage rants on him!
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umm... bro. bisu isn't your pet monkey who dances for your entertainment. he's a living legend and successful streamer who does well to this day in daily proleagues and still feels the drive to compete at the highest level in ASL. put some respect on his name, and stop trying to call mini a "wretch" because he has long nails and is expressive, lmao. horrible post.
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On September 14 2023 07:47 Artas1984 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2023 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:
Convulsions whenever he's losing? I don't think you were ever a fan of Bisu, ma boy. You sound like you always hated him. I was talking about Mini, not Bisu... You know.. Mini's grotesque twitches in the chair? Ye, that type of stuff... Anyway, i have been a fan of Bisu since i've known about him! That is exactly why i am so mad! How would you feel if your top 3 favorite protoss of all time, who is considered the headliner of all protoss, performs so poor? It's unacceptable. If you think i am too hard on him, you should watch some of Pusan's savage rants on him!
How would I feel? Well, sad of course. But I don't hold people up to unrealistic standards. Do you know how hard it is to even become the best player, and how it's nearly impossible to remain at the top? It's called a dream for a reason - because it's unrealistic. No one should be held to such a standard. Maybe for days or weeks at a time, but never for years. Someone being the top dog for years is a statistical fluke, not the norm.
It's your own fault for believing that someone could be expected to be the top dog for decades. Flash was a crazy anomaly, and no one understands to this day how he did all this. It makes no sense from a logical perspective.
Drop your expectations a little. Or maybe a lot.
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Do you know how lucky we are that Bisu and the other progamers are still playing after Kespa switched to SC 2 ? I never understood the people saying stuff like Bisu should retire or go to military cuz he loss a Final lol.. Enjoy what we have guys!
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EPT
