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NYC LAN Tournament, Sat. July 13th - Page 15

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
534 CommentsPost a Reply
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If there are disagreements over anything going on with the event, discuss it,don't muck it up with memes and copypasta, this is a final warning we will start handing out bans from here on out.

>>> NYC LAN #1 Attendee Feedback <<<

>>> NYC LAN #1 Viewer Feedback <<<
.gypsy
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada689 Posts
June 18 2019 02:37 GMT
#281
Also jealous you're a btich

User was warned for this post
https://www.twitch.tv/gypsy93
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1426 Posts
June 18 2019 02:41 GMT
#282
On June 18 2019 11:37 .gypsy wrote:
Also jealous you're a btich


Wow rude...
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10154 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-18 02:56:10
June 18 2019 02:52 GMT
#283
On June 18 2019 10:41 Ty2 wrote:
I see there's a lot of bad acting pot stirrers who just want to revel in the chaos. I don't appreciate it and I understand if people think a toxic community of trolls vs the selfless organizer narrative is being created. That said, I do want to share my side of the story and speak up about what I see as the unjust banning of myself from the NYC LAN and to give context to this commotion. Ultimately, this is a matter of Jealous (AKA Chobo) banning me from the NYC LAN over conflict in coaching a CPL team.

I have no real recourse besides speaking up and that's what I'm doing - to speak my piece and say just how wronged I feel. That said, I do understand that this is ultimately Chobo's tournament. He's free to make any decision and ban anyone he wants no matter how unreasonable it is.

The Story (be warned, it's long)
+ Show Spoiler +

Chobo AKA Jealous

This all started when I was playing a very minor role in Puck Frotoss, a team on the Coach Pupil League (CPL), a team league focused on the improvement/learning of beginner/intermediate players. FlashFTW, Chobo, and I were the coaches. I had only done replay analyses up until relations between Chobo and I broke down.

I learned that he and FlashFTW had already reviewed several replays there that were put into a document called the replay analysis queue where students would submit replays for review. And, at the time, I was sleep deprived and stressed, and generally just not mentally stable. I said I wanted to redo them all without having even seen the original responses from chobo and flashftw.

This didn't seem to anger Chobo strangely enough, but it was a dick move by me to assume that they were done badly and was definitely me overstepping my bounds, especially when I'd done very little for the team. I even interjected that I wanted to apply my own curriculum and coaching methods as "supervisor" when Chobo/FlashFTW had done so much work setting up the infrastructure and I wanted to make such drastic changes.

Overall, the way I acted was from a lapse in thought, insensitive, thoughtless, inconsiderate, me getting way in over my head, and my ego getting to my head. Just plain and simple, I was being an asshole.

I apologized and explained why that was a horrible thing of me to do, and acknowledged that yes it seems like I'm coming over to wipe away everything they'd done. I even said I wasn't right in the head, wasn't thinking clearly, and speaking before thinking. Chobo summed up what I was trying to do when he said I was trying to "minimize the impact of the flashFTW's and Chobo's coaching of the team."

And he was right - that I was trying to undermine their coaching because I thought it was bad. In the conversation I tried to worm my way around it initially by BS'ing that I was being tactless and what I said was not what I really meant or wanted to get across and I just wanted to be more collaborative. Then I finally threw FlashFTW under the bus by saying I said what I said because I dislike him.

But, I was feeling honest, and fessed up finally that undermining their coaching was the real reason I said that I wanted to redo all of the replays. That was clearly wrong in so many ways. I regret what I said in the moment, and I apologized for it and said it was disgusting behavior to try to undermine their coaching.

Strangely enough, Chobo said he was "fine with having less control over strategy n shit." But again, I didn't want to take control of the team or the fun parts of actually coaching team members especially when Chobo/FlashFTW have put in a lot of work, have genuine passion for the community/game, postiively contribute to it, and do have genuinely good advice/coaching to give. At this time I was also totally ignorant of what things were like on the administrative side of things.

This conundrum was started all from flippant statements I made that I apologized for. And just as I had about made amends I ended up saying something else stupid. Ironically I said I have one more thing to say but I'm really not in the right mindset and should go to sleep. And chobo said something like "You can't leave me on a cliffhanger man lol."

I said that I loved Samyang Fire, a team I hang out in that my friends are on and that I love their system and how everything is chillax there. And I just felt like if Puck Frotoss just chillaxed...

And this set off Chobo, because not only from his perspective was I trying to take over the strategy portion of the team, but I was taking control of the administrative parts of it, and pretty much repeating all of the mistakes I had just made several minutes ago by acting presumptuous, thoughtless, insensitive, and just being an asshole.

I never did get a chance to elaborate on what I meant exactly by the chillax and I didn't mean to replace Jealous's CPL team's system with Samyang's system. In fact, I didn't even know anything about Jealous' system which I would learn about later.

What I meant at the time was I wanted to be able to stream pupils' replays on stream and team practices for the fun of it but Jealous was against that because that would be a potential breach of intelligence that teams would have. Moreover, because I'm reviewing them, players from competing teams would know exactly what their weaknesses are when I point them out. I thought personally it's a bit too serious for the league, but I accepted it and moved on.

I also wanted to not make it a hard requirement for people to play 5 games per week to get into the lineup, because I thought that'd just scare players away. Anyway that would've been presumptuous of me to say anyhow, but again, I wasn't in the right mindset. That said, I didn't get a chance to elaborate to Chobo.

Chobo flipped out on me and handed me over the team to the effect of saying "Fine, you want to take control of the team? I'm done dealing with this." With Chobo more or less leaving it in my hands I felt like I had to lift the team up even though I didn't want to take control of the team or take on all of these responsibilities.

So I made some announcement saying I'd help out more in the team's coach channel in the most diplomatic, politest way possible to not do a repeat of last night, and most importantly I wanted input and to talk it out with the other coaches and avoid "taking control of the team" and just add to what was already there primarily. But things already went bad from the start.

In one of my proposed ideas I asked if it'd be okay to stream pupils' replays and team practices on stream as long as the pupils were okay with it and just for fun. Then Chobo comes in and says it's a slimy thing for me to do when he already said no to it already. I only brought it up in the first place because Chobo said he was handing the reigns over to me so I thought he wouldn't care.

Then Chobo says "Ty2 I am still 100% against you using this team and the player's replays for your own gain and self-promotion." At the time those words definitely stung but more than that I was just uh...in disbelief that he actually thought that and how fast things went downhill. He was mischaracterizing my actions as having a desire to take over the team and control it after Chobo and FlashFTW had done a lot of the work of setting everything up and using it for my own self promotion and gain, which was not my intent at all.

Afterwards I talked w/ FlashFTW the other primary coach to mediate any awkwardness. We made amends, and were just going to go forward and focus on the pupils and put the drama behind us.

After that I slowly came to the realization of how much administrative work Chobo had been doing, and it was clear he put a LOT of work into this team. I didn't do away w/ any of Chobo's systems like making sure each player had played their 5 required games per week and checking each 19 individual players' folders, checking which ones had gone to which KoTHs, which ones played their mandatory weekly Bo3 games w/ the sister team, goon squad, and all of this was collected in a spreadsheet. I even didn't stream when Puck Frotoss' KotHs would come up or when I had to review a Puck Frotoss replay.

I really did try to keep everything as it was before out of respect for Chobo and to appease him and make an eventual smooth transfer back to him after he'd be back from vacation, but eventually it got too much for me to handle. I was definitely humbled by this experience and I even tried copy pasting the system Puck Frotoss had onto the other two teams to show Chobo that I thought his way of doing things was good.

Unfortunately, this backfired when he said it looked like I was acting as an informant for Puck Frotoss' competitors. The workload only increased when I was trying to help two other CPL teams where both teams had a coach drop out. The other coaches still present didn't help as much as needed so i had to take a more central role in those teams too. So, that was poor planning and foresight on my part to say the least.

After dealing with the stress of trying to maintain everything with 16 hour days KOTHing, updating the spreadsheets, organizing everything, and tension between chobo and I getting worse as he'd pick at and undermine what I'd say, and me trying to just assuage everything and being as polite and courteous as possible, eventually I...started making mistakes like accidentally deleting the folder with all of the players' replays.

I was like "oh shit, chobo is gonna be so pissed at me," so I went up to him, apologized. The system had each player having their own folder, and they would ask for replays to be reviewed w/ the corresponding replay in the player folder and the spreadsheet of if players played their mandatory 5 games per week was also filled out using these folders. I had already filled them all out so in essence nothing was lost. I said hey, I already recorded everything on the spreadsheets on who played what and the replays in the queue were already reviewed, so it's no biggie, could you try to restore the folder?

And that was the very last straw for Chobo, who said, in short, "You've drained all of the fun of managing this team for me in CPL, I'm leaving this team. Have fun doing whatever you want."

And you know I've apologized. I admitted what I did was wrong that first day things started going downhill and every day after I was trying my best to repair everything so things could go back to the way they were.

Despite all of my best efforts, none have worked. And I got into the misfortune of getting into a conflict with the person who happens to be the organizer of the NYC LAN. I will say Jealous is passionate about the game and community and excels at organizing things very well. He feels very strongly about keeping things organized, and in my case, when I stepped on his toes, that was definitely a very bad move.

In this whole debacle I'm not excusing myself, because I do hold fault here and made a series of mistakes. I was oblivious, naive, ignorant, insensitive, presumptuous, and abrasive when I told Chobo from the beginning that I wanted to "redo all of the reps" and that I thought the Puck Frotoss team would benefit from adopting a more "chillaxed" system like Samyang when I hadn't contributed at all to the team prior and had no understanding of how things were done at the time. You all already know where I stand on that and despite my best efforts to mend fences and get on Chobo's good side, obviously that hasn't worked. But above all I didn't have any intentions of malice, self promotion, or sabotaging Chobo's team, Puck Frotoss.

And why I'm speaking up is that I can easily say I've dedicated my life to this game, this community, coached in all 3 recent season of CPL, and coached dozens of people, played in dozens upon dozens of tournaments, written guides, provided content, hosted showmatches/tourneys. Even through all the ups and downs, I just straight up love this game and want to talk to people about it. And for me to hang out and have fun talking to people IRL about this game for the first time in my life would mean a lot to me.

Sadly, I can't even show up to hang out even if I don't play in the tournament with the prize pool. I talked w/ Tim who is a secondary organizer and we reached a compromise that yes, I wouldn't be playing in the main tournament because Chobo wouldn't be able to take me profiting off of his hard work. I understood that and respected Chobo's perspective and was more than content with just showing up, but not playing in the main tournament. Later on though Tim told me Chobo made it very clear that he didn't want me to show up at all and that if I did, he'd leave the LAN altogether.

Anway, that's my side of the story. And again, this is Chobo's tournament. I understand he can ban whoever he wants for whatever reason no matter how unreasonable it is.

Since Ty2 took the effort of bringing everything forward, I would like to corroborate ~95% of what he has written here. The remaining 5% isn't worth amending as it is mostly perspectives/word choice. For example, I would not characterize my conduct as "undermining," considering the context of the situation at that point. However, those are just minor details. I would like to add that I had no means for recovering the data that Ty2 deleted. I do respect Ty2 for coming forward with what I consider a fairly accurate representation of the situation here.

I will say that this is still not the whole truth, as there were other things going on that contribute to my impression that more than just the initial salvos of the conflict were done in malice by Ty2. Perhaps the most damning in my eyes, and the only one of which I will discuss at length, is that after my departure from the Discord communities, Ty2 went through the effort of going back and deleting our exchanges that alluded to this conflict, essentially making it a cover-up. I heard about this from other members who were trying to scroll back and figure out what happened, only to find the content removed. Other things are more personal in nature and involve a third party, to whom I promised I would try to keep the drama and their involvement to a minimum, which is exactly why I was trying to avoid a long drawn-out discussion on the topic because I effectively gave my word that I would try to keep the drama to a minimum. Ty2 was initially in agreement with this, and had agreed a week ago to bow out of the tournament quietly, but clearly this is not how it transpired. Let it also be known that toward the end, my conduct had deteriorated in the wake of these transgressions because I was just desperately trying to get a resolution from Ty2, who himself was considering quitting the team, asking him whether he would stay with the team now that I was out of his way, only to be met with silence. I had not communicated with Ty2 since then (or rather, received no response) until yesterday. For that deterioration in conduct, I apologize to Ty2.

In short, what I found out from this third party clued me into what I perceived and continue to perceive as Ty2's duplicitous and manipulative nature. The sheer consistency with which I had been disrespected, taken advantage of, and my work then sabotaged over the course of a week or two has thoroughly convinced me that I no longer wish to have anything to do with Ty2, which includes having him benefit from my hard work ever again, which unfortunately for him includes this (and future) tournament(s) in which I am an organizer. Some people in the thread are saying "it's just CPL stuff" or "it's Brood War," I would like to retort by saying that just because YOU may not care about CPL or may find it silly to be upset about it, perhaps it is because many of you had not put in the hours and effort that I did and thus can't empathize with the attachment I had to my work. I wouldn't feel any different than if I had spent weeks, dozens of hours, on a finger painting and then had someone come in and effectively sabotage it. On the surface you can say, "oh, it's just a finger painting," but you have the luxury of saying so because you didn't spend dozens of hours and concerted effort into it. To you it may well be just CPL or just petty drama, but to me it was someone maliciously disregarding and damaging the product of my labor. Thus, the natural consequence in my mind, is that I don't want Ty2 to be anywhere near my future finger paintings, whether he has scissors in his hands or not. One prolonged episode which contained numerous and consistent patterns of behavior was enough for me to come to this conclusion, and as I said before, my decision is final.

If Ty2 wishes to continue this dialog, you can PM me, but I don't imagine there is much left to discuss. For those of you who came here for the drama or to defend their friend or whatnot, I hope that this will sate your curiosity and you can just let me run this tournament without further derailment. There is still a lot of work to be done and every moment I continue to spend due to this situation with Ty2 feels like a complete waste of my time. Thanks in advance for your time and understanding.

"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Favian[PaiN]
Profile Joined April 2014
United States75 Posts
June 18 2019 02:57 GMT
#284
#freety2
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1426 Posts
June 18 2019 03:01 GMT
#285
On June 18 2019 11:57 Favian[PaiN] wrote:
#freety2

Tempy12
Profile Joined June 2018
14 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-18 03:09:05
June 18 2019 03:02 GMT
#286
I think Ty2 was sincere in his apology and he even admitted that he realized how much work you put into it and felt regretful. Those of us who know him well understand that he is not the most socially adept person and is even awkward somewhat. No one can deny that this is your tournament and that you can allow or disallow whomever you want from participating. I just feel that it would be a huge miss of opportunity if an established and well-regarded player like Ty2 is barred from competing, especially in an event as rare and hard to come by as a BW LAN.
神は乗り越えられる試練しか与えない
Ty2
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United States1434 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-18 03:10:12
June 18 2019 03:03 GMT
#287
--- Nuked ---
Writer
Lumire
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States607 Posts
June 18 2019 03:06 GMT
#288
So ty2 redid some of your replay analysis and wanted to change some aspects of the CPL team, so you banned him from your LAN.

It's your tournament, but this is a very sad justification.
|| o.o
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10154 Posts
June 18 2019 03:14 GMT
#289
On June 18 2019 12:06 Lumire wrote:
So ty2 redid some of your replay analysis and wanted to change some aspects of the CPL team, so you banned him from your LAN.

It's your tournament, but this is a very sad justification.

Definitely not the summary of either of the summaries that we gave, but whatever - your mind is made up and if you wish to deliberately exclude key things from your interpretation of the events, that's up to you. I'm done arguing about it.

I don't think that someone's status or popularity entitles them to walk all over other people and their work and then be welcomed with open arms in those people's future ventures. As I said before, this will be a great event with a great turn out, great prize pool, reunion of old friends, forging of new friendships, regardless of Ty2's participation and certainly regardless of your personal opinions on this specific matter.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10160 Posts
June 18 2019 08:25 GMT
#290
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
June 18 2019 10:54 GMT
#291
Holy
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
fazek42
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Hungary438 Posts
June 18 2019 11:21 GMT
#292
Damn is it just me or is there like literally more drama in anything BW than... like... all soap operas combined... Or... like... I dunno combined. Man we should make a BW soap opera
Kibibit
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1551 Posts
June 18 2019 12:41 GMT
#293
Ty2's Old Boy
R.I.P. 우정호 || Do probes dream of psionic sheep?
littlechava
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States7218 Posts
June 18 2019 14:50 GMT
#294
This is what it would be like if William Song hosted a bw lan. Ty2 isn't manipulative, he's just an awkward kid.
Entusman #12
Fazers
Profile Joined August 2013
735 Posts
June 18 2019 15:38 GMT
#295
On June 18 2019 07:33 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
This was supposed to be some comfy casual LAN for old NYC area people to get together and out and youfuckers just have to go full ESPORTS on this shit

Prize pools were a mistake

Facts. Regardless, I can't wait to see the homies from the past NY LANs

Regarding all this drama, if you whiners want Ty2 to attend a LAN then go right ahead and organize your own tournament with the time you are spending you complain about it. No matter how petty you feel it may be to been to ban him, that is ultimately up to the TO to decide.
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
June 18 2019 16:37 GMT
#296
On June 18 2019 10:38 TT1 wrote:
You guys know how much shit was said between players on TL back in the day?


I disagree. We all got along perfectly. Always.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Rus_Brain
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Russian Federation1893 Posts
June 18 2019 17:17 GMT
#297
And Jealos didn't even ask anyone whether he is a gay. What a shame.
patyrykin.net
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10009 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-18 17:45:27
June 18 2019 17:44 GMT
#298
On June 19 2019 01:37 SK.Testie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2019 10:38 TT1 wrote:
You guys know how much shit was said between players on TL back in the day?


I disagree. We all got along perfectly. Always.


How DARE you DIsaGreE wItH mE on the InterNet, if you wanna go we can take this over to a real site like gg.net.. anything goes down there.



this is being released on july 9th btw, cyu online
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Cryoc
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany909 Posts
June 18 2019 19:16 GMT
#299
On June 19 2019 02:17 Rus_Brain wrote:
And Jealos didn't even ask anyone whether he is a gay. What a shame.

Not gonna lie, that made me laugh out loud.
http://www.twitch.tv/cryoc
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2497 Posts
June 18 2019 21:14 GMT
#300
I guess it would not bw without drama! I feel you Ty2, I feel your pain of just wanting wanna be there without playing; and I never saw a post as long as yours in 10 years here on tl; however, I never saw jealous outright ban someone in 10 years here, so Imma gonna take his side cause as an admin if he had said these things, there is a much more profound reason; so, better luck next time mate, your like a zertgling vs a siege tank; however I feel a lot of respect for you Ty2: you are a grand person; next time bro, hold out for next time your time will come; and know, for the most authoritarian vid of the bw saga and why we ultimately all here:
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
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