On October 22 2018 10:39 intrigue wrote: dope series. effort is nuts. a little worried about this playstyle vs flash's defense though. also not a great look that a top caliber zerg is trying his best to avoid macro games. the control and confidence looked like the effort of old though
Last defended very well I am not even convinced Flash would have done a better job at it, but I don't see him going 5 times 1/1/1. Which is good, because it is what trigger this playstyle, plus maps like autobahn and transistor for z v t... are we suppose to beat terran on that? You certainly don't want to go to the end game on those.
That burrowling maneuvering was so baller. It's amazing how in a 20 year old game we still get to see fresh tactics. I don't remember the last time I saw a Zerg player try to do that. Does anyone have links to VODs with similar use of burrowed lings, as in during an early attack/runby?
On October 22 2018 18:04 Ota Solgryn wrote: Apart from game 4, Effort was like a JD with the best lategame and macro mechanics I have ever seen under such pressure against such a good terran.
Game 4 is the difference between JD and Effort still in those clutch all ins. JD would not have messed that up I think.
You mean Jaedong in his prime, right? JD as of late has been screwing up aggressive attacks in a heartbreaking manner.
On October 22 2018 18:04 Ota Solgryn wrote: Apart from game 4, Effort was like a JD with the best lategame and macro mechanics I have ever seen under such pressure against such a good terran.
Game 4 is the difference between JD and Effort still in those clutch all ins. JD would not have messed that up I think.
You mean Jaedong in his prime, right? JD as of late has been screwing up aggressive attacks in a heartbreaking manner.
I do not agree. JD have been screwing the follow-up up. He still has his killer instinct. Like vs Flash in the group stages, he twice did to Flash whta no other Zerg is doing. But the second time he screwed up the follow-up even though he was miles ahead.
In game 4 Effort had 1 or 2 chances to break Last or put him severely behind, but botched them.
Btw what i tried to say is, apart from game 4 Effort looked like JD with the killer instinct, and ALSO had crazy lategame and macro mechanics, which I never think JD had. JD was ever only maybe top 3 or 4 in that regard, imo.
Effort's play was so inspiring, daring and brave through all the series and to do it against Last - most impressive. Those brilliant moves like the lings in the CB game, the lurker drops that set him up on Neo T. and then to top it all off - the burrow mechanic to dismantle the solid defense of Last - a real pleasure to watch. And historically Effort has been able to perform well vs Flash, I think he even reverse beat him to win an OSL. Let's see if Flash will cripple Shuttle tomorrow or will we have a ZvP for Sunday. Anyway, this ASL delivers!
the fact that tvz has turned into essentially nothing but ling and hydra busts or the zerg leaves, and when the game does go macro its the same 3 hatch build developed by savior 13 years ago is...concerning.
On October 22 2018 23:03 Dazed. wrote: the fact that tvz has turned into essentially nothing but ling and hydra busts or the zerg leaves, and when the game does go macro its the same 3 hatch build developed by savior 13 years ago is...concerning.
but what else is there to do? lols man we need a sequel so meta can evolve further
On October 22 2018 23:03 Dazed. wrote: the fact that tvz has turned into essentially nothing but ling and hydra busts or the zerg leaves, and when the game does go macro its the same 3 hatch build developed by savior 13 years ago is...concerning.
On October 22 2018 18:04 Ota Solgryn wrote: Apart from game 4, Effort was like a JD with the best lategame and macro mechanics I have ever seen under such pressure against such a good terran.
Game 4 is the difference between JD and Effort still in those clutch all ins. JD would not have messed that up I think.
You mean Jaedong in his prime, right? JD as of late has been screwing up aggressive attacks in a heartbreaking manner.
I do not agree. JD have been screwing the follow-up up. He still has his killer instinct. Like vs Flash in the group stages, he twice did to Flash whta no other Zerg is doing. But the second time he screwed up the follow-up even though he was miles ahead.
In game 4 Effort had 1 or 2 chances to break Last or put him severely behind, but botched them.
Btw what i tried to say is, apart from game 4 Effort looked like JD with the killer instinct, and ALSO had crazy lategame and macro mechanics, which I never think JD had. JD was ever only maybe top 3 or 4 in that regard, imo.
If you payed attention to the mini-map he only went balls deep because flash denied his 3rd from going twice. More credit to Flash rather than knocking JD down for doing a bad play because the original plan was dumb. Great plan but Flash denied him.
^ Yep, people really need to read the reddit post because it wasn't so much Jaedong messing it up, but rather Flash sniping that drone so many times.
Am I the only one who thoughts the series was ok? Game 5 was the most impressive out of all of them, mostly with the burrow play. Last should've anticipated that EffOrt would try to pull him out with the zerglings, and had a better defense at the front, but the burrow play would've given him headaches regardless. His multitasking failed him hard too though that's partly due to EffOrt having nice burrow lings spread in the main, and making him use up scans.
This series confirmed to me that Last can play the 1-1-1 really well, especially when he can scout what's going on. This is evident by the fact that he blocked it 2/3 games. The one game he lost was the one where he saw the lings too late, aka at his front, then lost his first vulture and got overwhelmed. Game 3 to me was good at the start until Last got impatient and lost his army outside EffOrt's third. He was too eager to go up that ramp, understandably so, but the game was EffOrt's from that point on, especially seeing that Last's SK Terran control is terrible, and that the lurker drop really denied mining for a while. Then you had times where Last would leave his medics apart from his marines, and he got them picked off for free, or the time where he dropped the fourth and sat in a swarm losing his units to several lings. Or what about the third base? Decides to build a third, but doesn't even have any marines or anything on the high ground to at least spot or try to intercept so he loses it right before it finishes. Suffice to say, Last's play in game 3 was full of holes and terrible past x minutes so it's no wonder that someone like EffOrt creamed him in that game.
Congrats to EffOrt for winning the series, but Last had problems in his games. Maybe he was getting tilted in game 3 because his mistakes were too severe for someone who beat both Jaedong, and Soulkey, players that I would rate higher than EffOrt in certain instances, quite convincingly.
On October 22 2018 23:03 Dazed. wrote: the fact that tvz has turned into essentially nothing but ling and hydra busts or the zerg leaves, and when the game does go macro its the same 3 hatch build developed by savior 13 years ago is...concerning.
but what else is there to do? lols man we need a sequel so meta can evolve further
I think we need new types of maps to overhaul or greatly modify the meta; every map is a clever variation of the same thing: a main and a nat with 9 and 7 mineral patches, respectively, connected with a ramp or a choke and a third base not too far away indirectly connected to the nat via hills, etc.
On October 23 2018 03:15 BigFan wrote: ^ Yep, people really need to read the reddit post because it wasn't so much Jaedong messing it up, but rather Flash sniping that drone so many times.
Am I the only one who thoughts the series was ok? Game 5 was the most impressive out of all of them, mostly with the burrow play. Last should've anticipated that EffOrt would try to pull him out with the zerglings, and had a better defense at the front, but the burrow play would've given him headaches regardless. His multitasking failed him hard too though that's partly due to EffOrt having nice burrow lings spread in the main, and making him use up scans.
This series confirmed to me that Last can play the 1-1-1 really well, especially when he can scout what's going on. This is evident by the fact that he blocked it 2/3 games. The one game he lost was the one where he saw the lings too late, aka at his front, then lost his first vulture and got overwhelmed. Game 3 to me was good at the start until Last got impatient and lost his army outside EffOrt's third. He was too eager to go up that ramp, understandably so, but the game was EffOrt's from that point on, especially seeing that Last's SK Terran control is terrible, and that the lurker drop really denied mining for a while. Then you had times where Last would leave his medics apart from his marines, and he got them picked off for free, or the time where he dropped the fourth and sat in a swarm losing his units to several lings. Or what about the third base? Decides to build a third, but doesn't even have any marines or anything on the high ground to at least spot or try to intercept so he loses it right before it finishes. Suffice to say, Last's play in game 3 was full of holes and terrible past x minutes so it's no wonder that someone like EffOrt creamed him in that game.
Congrats to EffOrt for winning the series, but Last had problems in his games. Maybe he was getting tilted in game 3 because his mistakes were too severe for someone who beat both Jaedong, and Soulkey, players that I would rate higher than EffOrt in certain instances, quite convincingly.
Nah, the series was pretty cool. Game 3 and 5 were great. Game 2 was good. Game 1 and 4 were pretty shit but oh well.
On October 23 2018 03:15 BigFan wrote: ^ Yep, people really need to read the reddit post because it wasn't so much Jaedong messing it up, but rather Flash sniping that drone so many times.
Am I the only one who thoughts the series was ok? Game 5 was the most impressive out of all of them, mostly with the burrow play. Last should've anticipated that EffOrt would try to pull him out with the zerglings, and had a better defense at the front, but the burrow play would've given him headaches regardless. His multitasking failed him hard too though that's partly due to EffOrt having nice burrow lings spread in the main, and making him use up scans.
This series confirmed to me that Last can play the 1-1-1 really well, especially when he can scout what's going on. This is evident by the fact that he blocked it 2/3 games. The one game he lost was the one where he saw the lings too late, aka at his front, then lost his first vulture and got overwhelmed. Game 3 to me was good at the start until Last got impatient and lost his army outside EffOrt's third. He was too eager to go up that ramp, understandably so, but the game was EffOrt's from that point on, especially seeing that Last's SK Terran control is terrible, and that the lurker drop really denied mining for a while. Then you had times where Last would leave his medics apart from his marines, and he got them picked off for free, or the time where he dropped the fourth and sat in a swarm losing his units to several lings. Or what about the third base? Decides to build a third, but doesn't even have any marines or anything on the high ground to at least spot or try to intercept so he loses it right before it finishes. Suffice to say, Last's play in game 3 was full of holes and terrible past x minutes so it's no wonder that someone like EffOrt creamed him in that game.
Congrats to EffOrt for winning the series, but Last had problems in his games. Maybe he was getting tilted in game 3 because his mistakes were too severe for someone who beat both Jaedong, and Soulkey, players that I would rate higher than EffOrt in certain instances, quite convincingly.
On October 23 2018 03:15 BigFan wrote: ^ Yep, people really need to read the reddit post because it wasn't so much Jaedong messing it up, but rather Flash sniping that drone so many times.
Am I the only one who thoughts the series was ok? Game 5 was the most impressive out of all of them, mostly with the burrow play. Last should've anticipated that EffOrt would try to pull him out with the zerglings, and had a better defense at the front, but the burrow play would've given him headaches regardless. His multitasking failed him hard too though that's partly due to EffOrt having nice burrow lings spread in the main, and making him use up scans.
This series confirmed to me that Last can play the 1-1-1 really well, especially when he can scout what's going on. This is evident by the fact that he blocked it 2/3 games. The one game he lost was the one where he saw the lings too late, aka at his front, then lost his first vulture and got overwhelmed. Game 3 to me was good at the start until Last got impatient and lost his army outside EffOrt's third. He was too eager to go up that ramp, understandably so, but the game was EffOrt's from that point on, especially seeing that Last's SK Terran control is terrible, and that the lurker drop really denied mining for a while. Then you had times where Last would leave his medics apart from his marines, and he got them picked off for free, or the time where he dropped the fourth and sat in a swarm losing his units to several lings. Or what about the third base? Decides to build a third, but doesn't even have any marines or anything on the high ground to at least spot or try to intercept so he loses it right before it finishes. Suffice to say, Last's play in game 3 was full of holes and terrible past x minutes so it's no wonder that someone like EffOrt creamed him in that game.
Congrats to EffOrt for winning the series, but Last had problems in his games. Maybe he was getting tilted in game 3 because his mistakes were too severe for someone who beat both Jaedong, and Soulkey, players that I would rate higher than EffOrt in certain instances, quite convincingly.
Nah, the series was pretty cool. Game 3 and 5 were great. Game 2 was good. Game 1 and 4 were pretty shit but oh well.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I was facepalming throughout game 3. It was pretty clear that Last was not prepared for EffOrt's style of play. Sad, but it's the reality of the situation. Hopefully he prepares better next time.
I honestly did not understand all of the hype for Jaedong in his match against Last. He is good but is past his prime. I feel like Effort and Soulkey are better contenders to take games off of Flash and Last.
EPT
