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[ASL5] Ro8 Flash vs Snow - Page 30

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
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Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-01 15:31:06
May 01 2018 15:29 GMT
#581
On May 02 2018 00:22 blade55555 wrote:
Hehe wouldn't be a Flash loss without the blames on balance/maps or another excuse. Grats to Snow, did not think he would take it, especially on game 5!


Well, how else do you explain the 7P 7Z and 2T in the ro16? If it isn't the maps, what is it? It's a pretty legit excuse. Maybe the quality of players per race?

I cheered for snow and I think he played extremely well and deserved to win. But if it would have been the asl4 map pool, I'm not sure snow makes it through. That's why I wish we had a more balanced map pool with maps favoring different races so that players have to adapt to the disadvantageous maps. Again, just like jangbi vs fantasy on pathfinder, or the second game of this set, which was on sparkle. I feel like only flash is able to adapt to new maps and playstyles, and even then, he ended up losing because snow is a very good player himself.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-01 15:35:47
May 01 2018 15:34 GMT
#582
On May 02 2018 00:29 Essbee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2018 00:22 blade55555 wrote:
Hehe wouldn't be a Flash loss without the blames on balance/maps or another excuse. Grats to Snow, did not think he would take it, especially on game 5!


Well, how else do you explain the 7P 7Z and 2T in the ro16? If it isn't the maps, what is it? It's a pretty legit excuse.

I cheered for snow and I think he played extremely well and deserved to win. But if it would have been the asl4 map pool, I'm not sure snow makes it through. That's why I wish we had a more balanced map pool with maps favoring different races so that players have to adapt to the disadvantageous maps. Again, just like jangbi vs fantasy on pathfinder, or the second game of this set, which was on sparkle. I feel like only flash is able to adapt to new maps and playstyles, and even then, he ended up losing because snow is a very good player himself.

other players couldn't adapt/practice well and sucked? Pardon my language. Seriously, Sea lost to an inactive Movie on Gladiator. Last couldn't adapt and lost also on Gladiator to Snow but first, he lost to Miso on Sparkle and ended up eliminating Mong! sSak wasn't even around this time.

Light played terribly aside from the first x minutes on Sparkle vs Shine and did a failed all-in vs Shuttle on Transistor. Rush got pushed to losers by Mind and then got eliminated by Best on Transistor. Who else is left? Sharp? He's only good at TvT.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-01 15:40:13
May 01 2018 15:38 GMT
#583
On May 02 2018 00:34 BigFan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2018 00:29 Essbee wrote:
On May 02 2018 00:22 blade55555 wrote:
Hehe wouldn't be a Flash loss without the blames on balance/maps or another excuse. Grats to Snow, did not think he would take it, especially on game 5!


Well, how else do you explain the 7P 7Z and 2T in the ro16? If it isn't the maps, what is it? It's a pretty legit excuse.

I cheered for snow and I think he played extremely well and deserved to win. But if it would have been the asl4 map pool, I'm not sure snow makes it through. That's why I wish we had a more balanced map pool with maps favoring different races so that players have to adapt to the disadvantageous maps. Again, just like jangbi vs fantasy on pathfinder, or the second game of this set, which was on sparkle. I feel like only flash is able to adapt to new maps and playstyles, and even then, he ended up losing because snow is a very good player himself.

other players couldn't adapt/practice well and sucked? Pardon my language. Seriously, Sea lost to an inactive Movie on Gladiator. Last couldn't adapt and lost also on Gladiator to Snow but first, he lost to Miso on Sparkle and ended up eliminating Mong! sSak wasn't even around this time.

Light played terribly aside from the first x minutes on Sparkle vs Shine and did a failed all-in vs Shuttle on Transistor. Rush got pushed to losers by Mind and then got eliminated by Best on Transistor. Who else is left? Sharp who is imo only great at TvT.


Yeah I guess the quality of players make sense. That's what I was thinking too, because outside of Flash, we only see sparks of Last or Mind. That's about it. Meanwhile, zerg and protoss have plenty of capable players, especially zerg. Remove flash and terran is basically dead :/ I just wish we can have great players on each race so that we can have meaningful rivalries between them again.

I think when one race struggles, the quality of the games obviously diminish, so I am quite thankful we still have flash haha.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-01 15:43:47
May 01 2018 15:42 GMT
#584
On May 02 2018 00:38 Essbee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2018 00:34 BigFan wrote:
On May 02 2018 00:29 Essbee wrote:
On May 02 2018 00:22 blade55555 wrote:
Hehe wouldn't be a Flash loss without the blames on balance/maps or another excuse. Grats to Snow, did not think he would take it, especially on game 5!


Well, how else do you explain the 7P 7Z and 2T in the ro16? If it isn't the maps, what is it? It's a pretty legit excuse.

I cheered for snow and I think he played extremely well and deserved to win. But if it would have been the asl4 map pool, I'm not sure snow makes it through. That's why I wish we had a more balanced map pool with maps favoring different races so that players have to adapt to the disadvantageous maps. Again, just like jangbi vs fantasy on pathfinder, or the second game of this set, which was on sparkle. I feel like only flash is able to adapt to new maps and playstyles, and even then, he ended up losing because snow is a very good player himself.

other players couldn't adapt/practice well and sucked? Pardon my language. Seriously, Sea lost to an inactive Movie on Gladiator. Last couldn't adapt and lost also on Gladiator to Snow but first, he lost to Miso on Sparkle and ended up eliminating Mong! sSak wasn't even around this time.

Light played terribly aside from the first x minutes on Sparkle vs Shine and did a failed all-in vs Shuttle on Transistor. Rush got pushed to losers by Mind and then got eliminated by Best on Transistor. Who else is left? Sharp who is imo only great at TvT.


Yeah I guess the quality of players make sense. That's what I was thinking too, because outside of Flash, we only see sparks of Last or Mind. That's about it. Meanwhile, zerg and protoss have plenty of capable players, especially zerg. Remove flash and terran is basically dead :/ I just wish we can have great players on each race so that we can have meaningful rivalries between them again.

I think when one race struggles, the quality of the games obviously diminish, so I am quite thankful we still have flash haha.

Don't get me wrong, I want this too. I really miss seeing TvZ and want more terrans too but this ASL, aside from Mind and Flash, no one else showed up. Also, keep in mind that Last's gf is running a macaron shop and he has wrist pains so there's no doubt that affected his practice (+ mindset possibly).

edit: I'm chuckling at the thought of having 3 Ps all seeded into the next ASL haha. Once hero goes to military, might even become 4. Sad that hero had to eliminate Mind when he's leaving us soon too.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
May 01 2018 15:46 GMT
#585
On May 02 2018 00:42 BigFan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2018 00:38 Essbee wrote:
On May 02 2018 00:34 BigFan wrote:
On May 02 2018 00:29 Essbee wrote:
On May 02 2018 00:22 blade55555 wrote:
Hehe wouldn't be a Flash loss without the blames on balance/maps or another excuse. Grats to Snow, did not think he would take it, especially on game 5!


Well, how else do you explain the 7P 7Z and 2T in the ro16? If it isn't the maps, what is it? It's a pretty legit excuse.

I cheered for snow and I think he played extremely well and deserved to win. But if it would have been the asl4 map pool, I'm not sure snow makes it through. That's why I wish we had a more balanced map pool with maps favoring different races so that players have to adapt to the disadvantageous maps. Again, just like jangbi vs fantasy on pathfinder, or the second game of this set, which was on sparkle. I feel like only flash is able to adapt to new maps and playstyles, and even then, he ended up losing because snow is a very good player himself.

other players couldn't adapt/practice well and sucked? Pardon my language. Seriously, Sea lost to an inactive Movie on Gladiator. Last couldn't adapt and lost also on Gladiator to Snow but first, he lost to Miso on Sparkle and ended up eliminating Mong! sSak wasn't even around this time.

Light played terribly aside from the first x minutes on Sparkle vs Shine and did a failed all-in vs Shuttle on Transistor. Rush got pushed to losers by Mind and then got eliminated by Best on Transistor. Who else is left? Sharp who is imo only great at TvT.


Yeah I guess the quality of players make sense. That's what I was thinking too, because outside of Flash, we only see sparks of Last or Mind. That's about it. Meanwhile, zerg and protoss have plenty of capable players, especially zerg. Remove flash and terran is basically dead :/ I just wish we can have great players on each race so that we can have meaningful rivalries between them again.

I think when one race struggles, the quality of the games obviously diminish, so I am quite thankful we still have flash haha.

Don't get me wrong, I want this too. I really miss seeing TvZ and want more terrans too but this ASL, aside from Mind and Flash, no one else showed up. Also, keep in mind that Last's gf is running a macaron shop and he has wrist pains so there's no doubt that affected his practice (+ mindset possibly).

edit: I'm chuckling at the thought of having 3 Ps all seeded into the next ASL haha. Once hero goes to military, might even become 4. Sad that hero had to eliminate Mind when he's leaving us soon too.


I didn't know about Last's wrist pains, thanks for that info.
ggsimida
Profile Joined August 2015
1148 Posts
May 01 2018 16:01 GMT
#586
Hero asl5 champion yeaaaa
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4146 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-01 16:25:32
May 01 2018 16:24 GMT
#587
On May 02 2018 01:01 ggsimida wrote:
Hero asl5 champion yeaaaa

I won;t count the protosses out on these maps. Also if rain wins I will root for snow to get snow-rain final, but if hero wins, I'll root for mini so we can have an interesting final
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
May 01 2018 16:34 GMT
#588
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

FLASH LOST

NO MORE FLASH IN FINALS AGAIN
POGGERS
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
May 01 2018 16:35 GMT
#589
man game 1 and 3 were so entertaining (watch 4 and 5 now)
POGGERS
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-05-01 16:38:36
May 01 2018 16:35 GMT
#590


Shuttle casting the gladiator game. It's pretty much all expletives towards Snow =)
Both him and Last kept fighting over who would win. They are pros but they are also the epitome of an arm chair general. ^^

Shuttle (when Snow lost his two arbiters without a single stasis): "You son of a bitch! What the fuck are you doing?! You son of a bitch! You stupid son of a bitch!"

Shuttle is screams like a little girl when Flash ggs out.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
May 01 2018 16:39 GMT
#591
WTF that build and timing in game 4 was perfect by flash
POGGERS
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
May 01 2018 16:44 GMT
#592
snow is going over the gladiator game in his stream!
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
May 01 2018 16:50 GMT
#593
snow says he was about to type gg when flash pushed with 4 tanks. also wanted to gg a couple other times throughout the game
RJGooner
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2076 Posts
May 01 2018 16:53 GMT
#594
WOOOOOOOO NO MORE FLASH IN THE FINALS! Flash punished for his arrogance. So happy. Go win the whole thing Snow!
#1 Jaehoon Fan! 김재훈 화팅!
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
May 01 2018 16:55 GMT
#595
holy fucking shit game 5 was FUCKING AMAZING
POGGERS
Shinokuki
Profile Joined July 2013
United States923 Posts
May 01 2018 17:15 GMT
#596
On May 02 2018 00:42 BigFan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2018 00:38 Essbee wrote:
On May 02 2018 00:34 BigFan wrote:
On May 02 2018 00:29 Essbee wrote:
On May 02 2018 00:22 blade55555 wrote:
Hehe wouldn't be a Flash loss without the blames on balance/maps or another excuse. Grats to Snow, did not think he would take it, especially on game 5!


Well, how else do you explain the 7P 7Z and 2T in the ro16? If it isn't the maps, what is it? It's a pretty legit excuse.

I cheered for snow and I think he played extremely well and deserved to win. But if it would have been the asl4 map pool, I'm not sure snow makes it through. That's why I wish we had a more balanced map pool with maps favoring different races so that players have to adapt to the disadvantageous maps. Again, just like jangbi vs fantasy on pathfinder, or the second game of this set, which was on sparkle. I feel like only flash is able to adapt to new maps and playstyles, and even then, he ended up losing because snow is a very good player himself.

other players couldn't adapt/practice well and sucked? Pardon my language. Seriously, Sea lost to an inactive Movie on Gladiator. Last couldn't adapt and lost also on Gladiator to Snow but first, he lost to Miso on Sparkle and ended up eliminating Mong! sSak wasn't even around this time.

Light played terribly aside from the first x minutes on Sparkle vs Shine and did a failed all-in vs Shuttle on Transistor. Rush got pushed to losers by Mind and then got eliminated by Best on Transistor. Who else is left? Sharp who is imo only great at TvT.


Yeah I guess the quality of players make sense. That's what I was thinking too, because outside of Flash, we only see sparks of Last or Mind. That's about it. Meanwhile, zerg and protoss have plenty of capable players, especially zerg. Remove flash and terran is basically dead :/ I just wish we can have great players on each race so that we can have meaningful rivalries between them again.

I think when one race struggles, the quality of the games obviously diminish, so I am quite thankful we still have flash haha.

Don't get me wrong, I want this too. I really miss seeing TvZ and want more terrans too but this ASL, aside from Mind and Flash, no one else showed up. Also, keep in mind that Last's gf is running a macaron shop and he has wrist pains so there's no doubt that affected his practice (+ mindset possibly).

edit: I'm chuckling at the thought of having 3 Ps all seeded into the next ASL haha. Once hero goes to military, might even become 4. Sad that hero had to eliminate Mind when he's leaving us soon too.


terran is hard who would’ve known. The race with highest possible skill ceiling and flash is the one who has nearly reached that and people are saying T is op tesagi this or that. I just can’t take them seriously when you clearly see that Terran is really gard even at 2300-2400 level. It truly shines at elite level like 2700-3200 but even at pro level you see terrabs struggling. I hope this season quelled tesagi once and for all.
Life is just life
xccam
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Great Britain1150 Posts
May 01 2018 18:14 GMT
#597
For those complaining that 3rd world is impossible for Terran vs Protoss (and in every other ro8 thread) 3rd world has a better ELO adjusted winrate for terran according to Sponbbang than Circuit breaker does for protoss against terran.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

43-43 overall, adjusted down (probably because Flash's ELO is so high alone) to a 46.2% chance for Terran to win.

If Flash had won with games 1 and 5 on circuit breaker NO ONE would be complaining the maps were impossible, but because the map "looks funny" and Flash lost twice everyone goes nuts.

The games were close, the series was fantastic, and ultimately it wasn't flash who won.
RxMidnight
Profile Joined July 2014
United States251 Posts
May 01 2018 18:20 GMT
#598
Bummer that Flash lost, but it was his own fault and not map balance. His anti-reaver play was probably the worst I've seen from him ever and he only stopped maybe one or two recalls in the entire series. Credit to Snow for his fantastic gameplan and sensational micro.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
May 01 2018 18:35 GMT
#599
I must agree that this is more Flash losing to a great player rather than the maps being unfavorable for terran. Snow played very well, he had a great gameplan for every map, and Flash made a few oversights that cost him a game or two.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12027 Posts
May 01 2018 19:19 GMT
#600
Game 5 would've been way better for me if someone didn't spoil the results on discord in the no spoiler channel T_T
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
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