ZOTAC is proud to announce that ZOTAC CUP will be hosting a $20,000 LAN MASTERS event for StarCraft: Remastered (N.America/S.America).
Please take note that if you participate in this event you must be physically playing from one of the accepted regions. In addition, you must have citizenship and be a permanent resident of qualifying region. No exceptions.
Tournament Format: - Double Elimination Bracket - 1v1 - Winner's Bracket: Best of 3 - Loser's Bracket: Best of 1 - Loser's Bracket Finals: Best of 3 - Grand Finals: Best of 5
LOCATION/LAN DATES: NewEgg Studios (Closed LAN), California on December 2-3
LAN Casters Day9, Artosis, Tasteless, & INcontroL
Final Maps: CircuitBreakers 1.0, Fighting Spirit, TauCross, Crossing Field, and Neo Jade
ZOTAC CUP Masters: StarCraft Remastered SHOW EVENT:
Players: NA 1 – Hawk (Z), NA 2 – Dragon(Pain) (P), NA 3 – Nyoken (T), NA 4 – Michael (Z), SA 1 – Ultra (T), SA 2 – KawaiiRice (T) Format: Double Elimination Bracket | Best of 3 matches in both Winners and Losers | Grand Finals will be a Best of 5. *** PLEASE NOTE *** Grand Finals maybe played on December 03, 2017.
Maps: Circuit Breakers 1.0, Fighting Spirit, Tau Cross, Crossing Field, and Troy Bracket: Match 1: Draco vs Larva Match 2: Legend vs December 02 Finalist
On October 04 2017 03:33 Qikz wrote: Good to see this! Hopefully you all thought Saturday went well which is why this is all being organised :D
Negative, this was planned way before the launch of SC:RM . As the Esports guy for ZOTAC, I just felt that it was only right to bring back StarCraft to the community on ZOTAC CUP. We have a long standing history with StarCraft and it's community, not to mention, personally, I grew up on this game.
I can't find the location of NewEgg Studios on Google Maps. From the Zotac site it looks to be in southern california. Anyone able to provide more info?
On October 04 2017 04:12 SilverBullet wrote: I can't find the location of NewEgg Studios on Google Maps. From the Zotac site it looks to be in southern california. Anyone able to provide more info?
This will be a closed event unfortunately. Are you from the SoCal area? This is in the SoCal area, anyone from the area feel free to PM me in particular the LA region. We're looking for some volunteers.
On October 04 2017 07:40 cKranez wrote: WHAT DRAMA ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
I dunno! Just expecting fun stuff. The BW scene isn't used to these price pools, so something juicy is sure to transpire, and people will be super angry and emotional. I meant it in the best possible way!
On October 04 2017 07:40 cKranez wrote: WHAT DRAMA ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
I dunno! Just expecting fun stuff. The BW scene isn't used to these price pools, so something juicy is sure to transpire, and people will be super angry and emotional. I meant it in the best possible way!
Yeah, I'm looking forward to see what transpires... haha
Is it only for people who leave in north and south America? What if some korean will come ? For the lan finals, are trip from other state paid? Who are these two invitational players?Koreans?
On October 04 2017 13:27 renzotc wrote: Can we participate in more than one qualifier date? I mean, can we have more than one opportunity? Like the ASL?
Yes, if you don't place in a qualifier you can participate again. As many times it takes for you to secure a ticket to the LAN. As long as you meet the necessary region requirements.
On October 04 2017 11:40 juvenal wrote: Scan boarding a plane to the USA!
We're looking into not allowing known Korean players to be able to participate. Rules regarding this will likely be added or changed.
There are thousands of unkwown koreans who able to rape all foreigners, you can't know them all in face. Question is, are you going to check, if this willl happens, are they from South of North America?
On October 04 2017 11:40 juvenal wrote: Scan boarding a plane to the USA!
We're looking into not allowing known Korean players to be able to participate. Rules regarding this will likely be added or changed.
There are thousands of unkwown koreans who able to rape all foreigners, you can't know them all in face. Question is, are you going to check, if this willl happens, are they from South of North America?
On October 04 2017 11:40 juvenal wrote: Scan boarding a plane to the USA!
We're looking into not allowing known Korean players to be able to participate. Rules regarding this will likely be added or changed.
There are thousands of unkwown koreans who able to rape all foreigners, you can't know them all in face. Question is, are you going to check, if this willl happens, are they from South of North America?
Concern noted... I will check with our organizers and see what we can do. I assume a citizenship restriction should be required? I will consult with our team and see what we can do.
On October 04 2017 11:40 juvenal wrote: Scan boarding a plane to the USA!
We're looking into not allowing known Korean players to be able to participate. Rules regarding this will likely be added or changed.
There are thousands of unkwown koreans who able to rape all foreigners, you can't know them all in face. Question is, are you going to check, if this willl happens, are they from South of North America?
Concern noted... I will check with our organizers and see what we can do. I assume a citizenship restriction should be required? I will consult with our team and see what we can do.
Does anyone else feel the same about this?
Yeah, would be good if you will be able to check NA/SA residency on finals.
Holy shit this is amazing, prize distribution seems a bit ridiculous (just have 2k to each of the semi final losers, nobody cares about third place games)
On October 04 2017 16:12 sixfour wrote: Holy shit this is amazing, prize distribution seems a bit ridiculous (just have 2k to each of the semi final losers, nobody cares about third place games)
What gave you that idea? 3rd/4th is great - more games from the top players of the tournament, more incentive to get that Bronze.
I think South America will dominate this event. Dandy, TerrOr, DinOt (he is still playing right?) etc etc will have no real competition from North America...
On October 04 2017 11:40 juvenal wrote: Scan boarding a plane to the USA!
We're looking into not allowing known Korean players to be able to participate. Rules regarding this will likely be added or changed.
There are thousands of unkwown koreans who able to rape all foreigners, you can't know them all in face. Question is, are you going to check, if this willl happens, are they from South of North America?
Even if a korean guy flies over to united states, he would have to stay at least a month since he has to go through qualifiers or he flies back to korea and come back again after winning qualifiers. I dont know if anyone would do that since airplane trip would cost alot back and forth twice but who knows..
Not only that but the difference in skill level really is staggering. It would be a much better tournament competition-wise (and hence for viewers) without Korean players.
On October 04 2017 17:41 chrisolo wrote: I think South America will dominate this event. Dandy, TerrOr, DinOt (he is still playing right?) etc etc will have no real competition from North America...
dont underestimate old players if they are motivated
Even if a korean guy flies over to united states, he would have to stay at least a month since he has to go through qualifiers or he flies back to korea and come back again after winning qualifiers. I dont know if anyone would do that since airplane trip would cost alot back and forth twice but who knows..
What are you talking about? Qualifiers are online. Final is offline.
Please clarify whether a Russian citizen with Russian passport only (no green card) who came to US for a month is considered "physically playing from one of the accepted regions"?
On October 04 2017 20:52 Rus_Brain wrote: Please clarify whether a Russian citizen with Russian passport only (no green card) who came to US for a month is considered "physically playing from one of the accepted regions"?
On October 04 2017 20:52 Rus_Brain wrote: Please clarify whether a Russian citizen with Russian passport only (no green card) who came to US for a month is considered "physically playing from one of the accepted regions"?
On October 04 2017 03:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: europe invitation ? :/
A bit of a shame, but with the Italian Open and this, I think there's a good chance we might see more tournaments in the future.
The future seems exciting
It's seems unlikely to me that these kind of tournaments would be sustainable.
Did you really have to post this on TL Forums and on Reddit? That's a bit of a downer don't you think? Can't we just be happy for a moment ?haha
Well hopefully I'm wrong.
BUT I MUST BE HEARD, correct?
It's almost like that's the purpose of discussion forums lmao
What the purpose of forums is, is a relatively philosophical question, but I would wager that they are best used for intelligent discussion, constructive criticism, posts that promote discourse, etc. Not for copy+pasting to multiple threads/sites your one-liner Negative Nancy doomsday prophecies which have no real argument or content, and whose only purpose is to put a damper on the situation and create a platform for you to look back to some time down the line and say "See? Told you so." And if you were wrong, to ignore and forget entirely.
Can you clarify the requirement: players must RESIDE or be a citizen of a country in North or South America? What if the player has a Professional Athlete visa (P1)?
On October 04 2017 17:41 chrisolo wrote: I think South America will dominate this event. Dandy, TerrOr, DinOt (he is still playing right?) etc etc will have no real competition from North America...
Sadly Dinot stopped playing 4 months ago, Soul)T(Ultra told me that Dinot got bored and is studying off the country(somewhere in Europe). if he were active i would say for certain that he would win the qualifiers and probably win the whole thing. I mean he was crazy good just look at Razer TSL, Highlander tours, ESL Major series IV, Spirit tour, etc. he was definetly Top 10 in the foreigner scene during 2008-2009
On October 04 2017 03:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: europe invitation ? :/
A bit of a shame, but with the Italian Open and this, I think there's a good chance we might see more tournaments in the future.
The future seems exciting
It's seems unlikely to me that these kind of tournaments would be sustainable.
Did you really have to post this on TL Forums and on Reddit? That's a bit of a downer don't you think? Can't we just be happy for a moment ?haha
Well hopefully I'm wrong.
BUT I MUST BE HEARD, correct?
It's almost like that's the purpose of discussion forums lmao
What the purpose of forums is, is a relatively philosophical question, but I would wager that they are best used for intelligent discussion, constructive criticism, posts that promote discourse, etc. Not for copy+pasting to multiple threads/sites your one-liner Negative Nancy doomsday prophecies which have no real argument or content, and whose only purpose is to put a damper on the situation and create a platform for you to look back to some time down the line and say "See? Told you so." And if you were wrong, to ignore and forget entirely.
On October 04 2017 17:41 chrisolo wrote: I think South America will dominate this event. Dandy, TerrOr, DinOt (he is still playing right?) etc etc will have no real competition from North America...
Sadly Dinot stopped playing 4 months ago, Soul)T(Ultra told me that Dinot got bored and is studying off the country(somewhere in Europe). if he were active i would say for certain that he would win the qualifiers and probably win the whole thing. I mean he was crazy good just look at Razer TSL, Highlander tours, ESL Major series IV, Spirit tour, etc. he was definetly Top 10 in the foreigner scene during 2008-2009
If DraW were active...
I'm trying to think who else could be a threat. NonY isn't active anymore obviously, I think Dragon is American and still active. Probably missing some others, but in terms of strength NA is definitely a little on the weak side. Michael is American right? Or am I totally confused. If so, he is a definite threat.
On October 04 2017 17:41 chrisolo wrote: I think South America will dominate this event. Dandy, TerrOr, DinOt (he is still playing right?) etc etc will have no real competition from North America...
Sadly Dinot stopped playing 4 months ago, Soul)T(Ultra told me that Dinot got bored and is studying off the country(somewhere in Europe). if he were active i would say for certain that he would win the qualifiers and probably win the whole thing. I mean he was crazy good just look at Razer TSL, Highlander tours, ESL Major series IV, Spirit tour, etc. he was definetly Top 10 in the foreigner scene during 2008-2009
If DraW were active...
I'm trying to think who else could be a threat. NonY isn't active anymore obviously, I think Dragon is American and still active. Probably missing some others, but in terms of strength NA is definitely a little on the weak side.
I want Sero to win the whole thing.
I don't think Draw will be active on time for the event, else, he would be an automatic top 2 I think. Other NA players Jumper/Dre/Game/Semih are all inactive as far as I know. The only notable threat from NA is Michael I think.
DragOn has a good chance of qualifying, but I don't think he will come out on top against the top South American players. He could definitely surprise me though if he's playing full time to prepare.
Edit: I believe Kawaii will also be getting a lot more active for this... So there's a good chance he qualifies.
Edit2: TT1 is also a notable player that should be mentioned, but it's really hard to tell where his game is at because he doesn't play in events.
On October 04 2017 17:41 chrisolo wrote: I think South America will dominate this event. Dandy, TerrOr, DinOt (he is still playing right?) etc etc will have no real competition from North America...
Sadly Dinot stopped playing 4 months ago, Soul)T(Ultra told me that Dinot got bored and is studying off the country(somewhere in Europe). if he were active i would say for certain that he would win the qualifiers and probably win the whole thing. I mean he was crazy good just look at Razer TSL, Highlander tours, ESL Major series IV, Spirit tour, etc. he was definetly Top 10 in the foreigner scene during 2008-2009
If DraW were active...
I'm trying to think who else could be a threat. NonY isn't active anymore obviously, I think Dragon is American and still active. Probably missing some others, but in terms of strength NA is definitely a little on the weak side.
I want Sero to win the whole thing.
I don't think Draw will be active on time for the event, else, he would be an automatic top 2 I think. Other NA players Jumper/Dre/Game/Semih are all inactive as far as I know. The only notable threat from NA is Michael I think.
DragOn has a good chance of qualifying, but I don't think he will come out on top against the top South American players. He could definitely surprise me though if he's playing full time to prepare.
Edit: I believe Kawaii will also be getting a lot more active for this... So there's a good chance he qualifies.
Edit2: TT1 is also a notable player that should be mentioned, but it's really hard to tell where his game is at because he doesn't play in events.
Edit3: I hear Ruarc might want to get active again for this
Michael, Nony, Dragon, TT1, Aegyo, Assault, Nyoken, Sero, Ty2, Testie are the real NA threats (Not even mentioning South America) that I thought of off the top of my head. I wish I was active enough to take this seriously, as that's a SWEET prize pool.
Crazy prize pool! Heard about this from some folks on my stream which I just play for casually but this gives me some real incentive to actually practice. Not sure if I can make the first two qualifiers.. but hoping for the last two. Thanks all for organizing this!
On October 05 2017 05:11 Jaeyun wrote: Crazy prize pool! Heard about this from some folks on my stream which I just play for casually but this gives me some real incentive to actually practice. Not sure if I can make the first two qualifiers.. but hoping for the last two. Thanks all for organizing this!
Haha that would be me, looking forward to seeing you participate in this event!
On October 05 2017 07:12 sicklucker wrote: "Please take note that if you participate in this event you must be physically playing from one of the accepted regions. No exceptions."
too people asking you should be able to play if your visiting
that was an older post...the team is still working out the specific details on who to allow and who not to allow. Stay tuned.
Randomized brackets could mean someone gets lucky that wont stand a chance especially if the best players end up on one side, but loser's bracket should help right?
with travel expenses covered this event is just beyond awesome.....one of the best events there has ever been for NA/SA BW players of ALL time.....wow....great work cKranes. You are making amazing things happen.
On October 05 2017 11:14 Fujikura wrote: Randomized brackets could mean someone gets lucky that wont stand a chance especially if the best players end up on one side, but loser's bracket should help right?
This event aims to establish who is currently the "best" in the NA/SA regions.
On October 05 2017 11:16 Liquid`Ret wrote: with travel expenses covered this event is just beyond awesome.....one of the best events there has ever been for NA/SA BW players of ALL time.....wow....great work cKranes. You are making amazing things happen.
Thank you for the kind words. All this would not be possible if not for my team, partners, and the wonderful StarCraft community. I should be thanking you all. You guys are the real MVP. :D
On October 05 2017 11:16 Liquid`Ret wrote: with travel expenses covered this event is just beyond awesome.....one of the best events there has ever been for NA/SA BW players of ALL time.....wow....great work cKranes. You are making amazing things happen.
Seconded. This is the most amazing thing state-side I've seen since I began actively following the proscene in 2005.
Holy crap, this is great news! Even with the remastered release, I never once thought there would be a NA tournament with a prizepool this big in a million years! This really gives incentive for all those pros to polish the rust off and get practicing, I'm so excited!
The NA SCR launch event with Tastosis/Day9/incontrol was the best cast I've watched in years, so this should be just as much fun, only with the added benefit of there being a real prize to play for.
On October 05 2017 12:33 Alpha-NP- wrote: This is good for the USA scene because I hear it doesn't have many players coming back yet as the rest of the non-Korean foreign scene.
I'm thinking Chilean players will do well.
sorry but currently peru has a good level in sc I am sure that the representatives of South America are Peruvian
u plan anything similar for europe or only america ? because to be fair europe has the better foreign players then america and i also think more of them xD
On October 05 2017 15:51 Drake wrote: u plan anything similar for europe or only america ? because to be fair europe has the better foreign players then america and i also think more of them xD
In fairness it's lovely to see some old school names being mentioned here in this thread. Fans of Brood War from the earlier years up to now will really appreciate seeing names like Ret and TT1 in the comments.
I'm sure everyone is as appreciative as I am to Zotac for making this happen. To the guys running it - you're officially legends in my book.
This is a great initiative. It goes without saying - if you are able support Zotac by buying some stuff from their site.Make it worth their while financially.
On October 05 2017 11:59 Wonk wrote: Holy crap, this is great news! Even with the remastered release, I never once thought there would be a NA tournament with a prizepool this big in a million years! This really gives incentive for all those pros to polish the rust off and get practicing, I'm so excited!
The NA SCR launch event with Tastosis/Day9/incontrol was the best cast I've watched in years, so this should be just as much fun, only with the added benefit of there being a real prize to play for.
Thanks so much for organizing this guys.
On October 05 2017 13:40 FlaShFTW wrote: LETS GO HYPEEEEE
Hyppppppeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
On October 05 2017 15:51 Drake wrote: u plan anything similar for europe or only america ? because to be fair europe has the better foreign players then america and i also think more of them xD
still amazing event i am hyped
Replied to you on the Official SC Forums
On October 05 2017 17:01 Yadnak wrote: In fairness it's lovely to see some old school names being mentioned here in this thread. Fans of Brood War from the earlier years up to now will really appreciate seeing names like Ret and TT1 in the comments.
I'm sure everyone is as appreciative as I am to Zotac for making this happen. To the guys running it - you're officially legends in my book.
Thank you, this means a lot to the team and I!
On October 05 2017 17:42 PobTheCad wrote: This is a great initiative. It goes without saying - if you are able support Zotac by buying some stuff from their site.Make it worth their while financially.
Haha… YES! Buy everything with all your monies! I’m just playing… I can’t thank you guys enough for the awesome support…
On October 04 2017 17:41 chrisolo wrote: I think South America will dominate this event. Dandy, TerrOr, DinOt (he is still playing right?) etc etc will have no real competition from North America...
Sadly Dinot stopped playing 4 months ago, Soul)T(Ultra told me that Dinot got bored and is studying off the country(somewhere in Europe). if he were active i would say for certain that he would win the qualifiers and probably win the whole thing. I mean he was crazy good just look at Razer TSL, Highlander tours, ESL Major series IV, Spirit tour, etc. he was definetly Top 10 in the foreigner scene during 2008-2009
Ahh too bad ;/ When he was active, he even could play against Scan to some extent (not saying he had a chance to win, but some games were close), maybe he doesn't know about this tour? Please if someone knows his contact details try to motivate him :D Ye he was really good.
Anyways I am really hyped for this event. THANK YOU for organizing at cKranez :D
On October 06 2017 22:54 Alpha-NP- wrote: How'd dandy get so good so fast?
dandy was A- in tsl2 check the ladder pictures.
TSL2 rankings don't mean much because ppl were picking their opponents. The majority of foreigners were dodging koreans and only playing vs foreigners. And the players who did that ultimately didn't accomplish anything in the tournament.
On October 06 2017 22:54 Alpha-NP- wrote: How'd dandy get so good so fast?
dandy was A- in tsl2 check the ladder pictures.
TSL2 rankings don't mean much because ppl were picking their opponents. The majority of foreigners were dodging koreans and only playing vs foreigners. And the players who did that ultimately didn't accomplish anything in the tournament.
it means cuz i was b- in that exact period :d ,so i guess he was decent back then
On October 12 2017 02:26 cKranez wrote: Just an update, this weekends NA qualifiers semi-Grand finals will be streamed live on twitch.tv/ZOTAC_CUP featuring casters, Sayle and Schamtoo.
On October 12 2017 02:26 cKranez wrote: Just an update, this weekends NA qualifiers semi-Grand finals will be streamed live on twitch.tv/ZOTAC_CUP featuring casters, Sayle and Schamtoo.
Okay, I just watched the finals live on twitch. First off, great performances by all participants.
Second, the "Grand Finals" rules MUST be changed. It is purely injustice to have the winners bracket winner make it to the finals and lose one set to the losers bracket winner in a double elimination bracket, and lose the entire tournament.
*Spoilers below*
Nyoken lost 1 set at the very end, while Hawk lost 1 set to get to the losers bracket. Yet, Hawk wins the whole thing? It's absolutely necessary to have a 2nd set if the winners bracket finalist loses the set. It makes zero sense, and many people in twitch chat felt the same empathy towards Nyoken for not getting the 2nd chance. There is no advantage in being in the winners bracket aside from having less potential games (but that's why losers of a set get punished into the losers bracket...)
On October 16 2017 12:31 Demurity wrote: Okay, I just watched the finals live on twitch. First off, great performances by all participants.
Second, the "Grand Finals" rules MUST be changed. It is purely injustice to have the winners bracket winner make it to the finals and lose one set to the losers bracket winner in a double elimination bracket, and lose the entire tournament.
*Spoilers below*
Nyoken lost 1 set at the very end, while Hawk lost 1 set to get to the losers bracket. Yet, Hawk wins the whole thing? It's absolutely necessary to have a 2nd set if the winners bracket finalist loses the set. It makes zero sense, and many people in twitch chat felt the same empathy towards Nyoken for not getting the 2nd chance. There is no advantage in being in the winners bracket aside from having less potential games (but that's why losers of a set get punished into the losers bracket...)
Originally, this was supposed to be the rules, double elim, however, from my understanding the players agreed to one BO5 which was confirmed by both the admins and the casters, but there seemed to be some confusion because Nyoken thought it would be one BO5 then BO1 losers, instead it was just one BO5 to decide the winner.
I apologize for the misunderstanding that resulted in this outcome. I will make it my priority that this will not be repeated.
Thank you all for participating in the tournament we had some amazing games!
First of all, the games today were great, shoutouts to kawaiirice kid you are GOOD!
However...
Above and beyond the confusion from the players (miscommunication happens), that's a poor tournament format. Nyoken was eliminated from the tournament after losing just one set, whereas every other player had to lose twice to be eliminated. Hawk and Nyoken both have one set loss, but Hawk is the champion and Nyoken is out?
I'm struggling to understand the purpose of running the entire thing double-elimination beforehand if you aren't going to finish it that way. I can understand making decisions to account for how long the event takes to finish, how much of the caster's time is needed, etc, but in my opinion you absolutely cannot make decisions that create an uneven playing field for the competitors. This is a critical oversight and it really turned me off the event.
While watching, I heard three different versions of what was "supposed" to happen from the players, the casters, and what the casters relayed from the admins. Moreover, the decision seemed to be in flux and still pending while Grand Finals was already under way. That, to me, is unacceptable.
You need to ensure that all your players, admins, and casters are aware of the tournament format. I would also recommend moving to a bo3 series Grand Final with a potential bracket reset, like any other double elim tournament in gaming. Nyoken was under the impression that it was Best of 5 for the first set, and if Hawk reset (ie, knocked Nyoken into Loser's Bracket!), then the second set would be Bo1. Imo that's a poor solution as well, and resting everything on a Bo1 set may produce low quality games on average.
If I was Nyoken I'd be livid after being told I was eliminated after losing only one set in a double elimination bracket, but his only response was "oh well, I'll try again next time", so credit to him lol
Yeah, honestly in this format the grand finals should always be a best of 3 sets (bo3 bo3 format) with the person coming out of the winner bracket starting up a Bo3 set and needing to win 1 Bo3 and the person coming out of the loser bracket needing to win 2 Bo3's.
I've also seen straight up Bo5 or Bo7 grand finals with the person coming out of the winner bracket starting up 1-0 because they haven't lost a set yet. Although I personally believe the first format (Bo3 sets of Bo3) is the most fair.
Sucks for Nyoken =\. Hope he qualifies. Definitely a top 4 NA player if not top 1. Shout out to Nyoken and Kawaii whom both wrecked me. GG's all, was fun.
2 Series final in double elim is definitely the most fair. However, it isn't the best viewer experience. I actually think that a single series final is better for viewership because there is more riding on each of the games. With that being said, I was a little bit disappointed because the bracket said there would be 2 series and it ended up being only 1.
WB advantage just leads to the WB player winning most of the time. (again, fair, but is that really want everyone wants to see?)
I think as long as the information is communicated before the start of the tour, there will be less confusion and disappointment.
On October 17 2017 00:12 Eywa- wrote: 2 Series final in double elim is definitely the most fair. However, it isn't the best viewer experience. I actually think that a single series final is better for viewership because there is more riding on each of the games. With that being said, I was a little bit disappointed because the bracket said there would be 2 series and it ended up being only 1.
WB advantage just leads to the WB player winning most of the time. (again, fair, but is that really want everyone wants to see?)
I think as long as the information is communicated before the start of the tour, there will be less confusion and disappointment.
I totally understand, but from what I was told, the players agreed to one BO5 including Nyoken. Casters and Admins were able to confirm this agreement. Nyoken, however, believed that he had agreed to a double elim, if he lost he'd have a chance to play back from losers, but this was not the case. It was understood as just one BO5 to decide the WINNER.
Again, this was an unfortunate misunderstanding between all parties. Moving forward, all matches will be played and players will not have the ability to choose if they can alter the brackets, even if they both agreed.
On October 19 2017 08:27 FyRe_DragOn wrote: double elimination with what as the grand finals? Bo5 with 0-1 for the guy who came from loser bracket? two bo3s? two bo5s? How does it work
We're going with Double elim for sure (If loser finalst wins 1st set). In terms of the loser set in GF I will have to check with Battlefy. Will update as soon as I get word.
Update/Edit 10/19 : We've worked out the details GF is now Double Elim - Bo3. If the winner bracket player loses, he will play another BO3. We've changed it to BO3 in order to help minimize the stress a tournament can put on all players.
Tourney started at 3pm, i played my 1st match and had to wait until 6pm to play my 2nd match ^^. Basically 1 match delayed the entire tournament for several hours because they started late. God knows why they were allowed to play their match in the first place.
On October 22 2017 06:55 TT1 wrote: Tourney started at 3pm, i played my 1st match and had to wait until 6pm to play my 2nd match ^^. Basically 1 match delayed the entire tournament for several hours because they started late. God knows why they were allowed to play their match in the first place.
lol why didnt they just DQ the players responsible for the delay? absolutely ridiculous
On October 22 2017 06:55 TT1 wrote: Tourney started at 3pm, i played my 1st match and had to wait until 6pm to play my 2nd match ^^. Basically 1 match delayed the entire tournament for several hours because they started late. God knows why they were allowed to play their match in the first place.
Yah the tour got extended by at least an hour and a half. The tour took so long, around 7+ hours up to the finals. Hopefully the next qualifiers go more smoothly.
Hmm... I will make sure to let the Admins know about this issue and see what we can do to resolve this. Thanks for bringing this up.
I want to point out that EVERYONE should promote the live event, if we dont get enough viewership I dont think we can hope of these events continuing for the community to be revived here in Remastered, just food for thought. Everyone has to do their part players and fans!
On October 28 2017 04:57 Fujikura wrote: I want to point out that EVERYONE should promote the live event, if we dont get enough viewership I dont think we can hope of these events continuing for the community to be revived here in Remastered, just food for thought. Everyone has to do their part players and fans!
On October 28 2017 04:57 Fujikura wrote: I want to point out that EVERYONE should promote the live event, if we dont get enough viewership I dont think we can hope of these events continuing for the community to be revived here in Remastered, just food for thought. Everyone has to do their part players and fans!
I'll make a facebook post.
thanks guys...
The North American Qualifiers will be on a temporary hiatus until November 11th. Practice up guys, there's only 2 North American Qualifiers left :O !
How does the Zotac Cup work exactly? I don't think they ever announced that a korean would be participating, did they? All i know is theres 4 NA qualis and 2 SA qualis.
edit: So i assume theres gonna be another invite to make it 8 players? KOR or EU player?
On October 30 2017 06:41 TT1 wrote: How does the Zotac Cup work exactly? I don't think they ever announced that a korean would be participating, did they? All i know is theres 4 NA qualis and 2 SA qualis.
edit: So i assume theres gonna be another invite to make it 8 players? KOR or EU player?
I'm pretty sure they said they were inviting 1 player from Korea and 1 player from US. With the 6 qualifiers + the 2 invites that makes 8. Edit: I remember hearing casters say that anyone who wins a qualifier will win an auto $1,000. I guess that means that the 2 invitational players aren't guaranteed anything?
On October 30 2017 06:41 TT1 wrote: How does the Zotac Cup work exactly? I don't think they ever announced that a korean would be participating, did they? All i know is theres 4 NA qualis and 2 SA qualis.
edit: So i assume theres gonna be another invite to make it 8 players? KOR or EU player?
I'm pretty sure they said they were inviting 1 player from Korea and 1 player from US. With the 6 qualifiers + the 2 invites that makes 8. Edit: I remember hearing casters say that anyone who wins a qualifier will win an auto $1,000. I guess that means that the 2 invitational players aren't guaranteed anything?
"I'm pretty sure they said they were inviting 1 player from Korea and 1 player from US."
Where? I never heard them say that and i can't find that info anywhere.
"The Grand Finals Champion will have the ultimate opportunity to faceoff with two StarCraft® PRO Invitational players and take home an additional prize money. More info to come"
I'm not too sure what the more info to come means, but I guess they'll be inviting (2) Korean pro-gamers.
On October 30 2017 06:41 TT1 wrote: How does the Zotac Cup work exactly? I don't think they ever announced that a korean would be participating, did they? All i know is theres 4 NA qualis and 2 SA qualis.
edit: So i assume theres gonna be another invite to make it 8 players? KOR or EU player?
We should be making an announcement on this before the end of this upcoming week.
Does anyone here actually know how to get a Liquidpedia page up for the ZOTAC CUP Masters event? I have no clue how to start one like the one for ASL 4. Any help is appreciated.
On October 30 2017 13:05 cKranez wrote: Does anyone here actually know how to get a Liquidpedia page up for the ZOTAC CUP Masters event? I have no clue how to start one like the one for ASL 4. Any help is appreciated.
On October 30 2017 06:41 TT1 wrote: How does the Zotac Cup work exactly? I don't think they ever announced that a korean would be participating, did they? All i know is theres 4 NA qualis and 2 SA qualis.
edit: So i assume theres gonna be another invite to make it 8 players? KOR or EU player?
We should be making an announcement on this before the end of this upcoming week.
Does anyone here actually know how to get a Liquidpedia page up for the ZOTAC CUP Masters event? I have no clue how to start one like the one for ASL 4. Any help is appreciated.
On October 31 2017 00:58 Game wrote: Do they cover travel costs?
The LAN event, will be a closed event with no spectators in Los Angeles. All players, who qualify in the qualifier will have travel, meals, and lodging covered when attending this event.
I want to thank the zotac organization for their help in trying to get me a visa approved for the event. Sadly it has been denied and I won't be able to attend. Shout-out to Andrew and KasQelz both helped me through this process. Hopefully this is the first of many tournaments to come. TerrOr
Hello everyone, it's been awhile, I know :D. I just wanted to update everyone on what's going on as well as some new exciting things that we have planned for the ZOTAC CUP Masters LAN event.
ZOTAC CUP Masters: StarCraft Remastered Qualifiers/ LAN:
The WINNERS of the previous qualifiers: 1) NA Qualifiers #1 - Hawk 2) NA Qualifiers #2 - Dragon[Pain]
1) SA Qualifiers #1 - Terror 2) SA Qualifiers #2 - Dandy
We're working with the players to secure the necessary VISAS to participate in the LAN; however, unfortunately, Terror will not be able make it. We're reaching out to 2nd-5th placed players to see if they will be able to fill Terrors spot.
I will update you all as more information becomes available.
With the help of Qikz (thank you), we've finalized the map pool for the NA/SA Final LAN Event: Maps: CircuitBreakers 1.0, Fighting Spirit, TauCross, Crossing Field, and Neo Jade
The goal, was to keep most of the original maps offered in the qualifiers and to offer a couple new ones to make things a bit more interesting.
ZOTAC CUP Masters: StarCraft Remastered SHOW EVENT:
This is the surprise I've been hinting about for some time in the previous threads/comments. ZOTAC CUP has decided to host a separate tournament, with a separate prize pool on December 03, 2017.
After establishing who the best players are in the NA/SA region, we thought it would be awesome to see,as well, as a treat to the community, to host a special side event to answer the question: How well would the NA/SA winner do against other pro players from around the world? The special show event details are as follows:
Well that is all, for now... Please let me know what you think of all this. Feel free to express your concerns or ask any questions you may have. Again, thank you all for the continued support, the team sincerely appreciates it! Remember there's only 2 remaining NA Qualifiers left. So get your entries in!
P.S. We still have some more awesome things planned...LOL It's a surprise!
Hi, thanks for the update. I approve of the choice to get rid of the older maps, especially arcadia, I think pretty much everyone was vetoing it in the qualifiers. Is the bracket on this page https://battlefy.com/zotaccupmasters accurate for the final LAN event? With SA players being seeded further than NA etc, or is it subject to change? Also, is the map selection process in the LAN final going to be the same as in the qualifiers, with map vetoing on battlefly?
Is the bracket on this page https://battlefy.com/zotaccupmasters accurate for the final LAN event? With SA players being seeded further than NA etc, or is it subject to change? Also, is the map selection process in the LAN final going to be the same as in the qualifiers, with map vetoing on battlefly?
On November 07 2017 04:44 FyRe_DragOn wrote: Is the bracket on this page https://battlefy.com/zotaccupmasters accurate for the final LAN event? With SA players being seeded further than NA etc, or is it subject to change? Also, is the map selection process in the LAN final going to be the same as in the qualifiers, with map vetoing on battlefly?
Yes, the South American finalists will be seeded further than NA due to there only being 2 Qualifiers spots for SA. The map selection/banning should be similar to Battlefy.
Can we extend the qualifiers? I legit haven't practiced seriously once in months and I feel like this is going to make it harder for me to qualify because I am several skill levels below the top NA talent at the moment.
On November 11 2017 00:55 SCC-Faust wrote: Can we extend the qualifiers? I legit haven't practiced seriously once in months and I feel like this is going to make it harder for me to qualify because I am several skill levels below the top NA talent at the moment.
+1 to this. Give us noobs a chance to get our skills up!
On November 10 2017 12:10 mIsUZu wrote: Looks like free money for Larva. GG
There's basically two separate tournaments with separate prize pools.
On November 11 2017 00:55 SCC-Faust wrote: Can we extend the qualifiers? I legit haven't practiced seriously once in months and I feel like this is going to make it harder for me to qualify because I am several skill levels below the top NA talent at the moment.
Unfortunately, we can't... our LAN dates are pretty set in stone and we'll need to time to plan and coordinate the finalists flights and lodgings.
Congratulations to Nyoken for Winning the ZOTAC CUP Masters Qualifier #3. Runner up - Ty2
Last North American Qualifier is this weekend! So make sure to sign up!
Update: A lot of you guys are probably wondering what's going on with the South American winners. Unfortunately, Terror was not able to secure a visa for this event; therefore, Ultra will be taking his place instead. We are still awaiting visa confirmation from Dandy and will know this week if it is possible for him to attend the LAN.
On November 15 2017 10:28 jamesz wrote: ultra is not close to the level of terror and dandy but it is what there is, I think the top 10 of Peru has more level than ultra
tell me the top 10 please and i can give you replays ^^
On November 15 2017 10:28 jamesz wrote: ultra is not close to the level of terror and dandy but it is what there is, I think the top 10 of Peru has more level than ultra
They should have signed up for the qualifiers. Ultra got 4th place in the first qualifier and second place in the second one - clearly the best overall results of non-dandy/terror.
On November 15 2017 19:46 jamesz wrote: in Peru after terror and dandy follow dyna dienmax castro laabuela both in 2500 mmr and all superior to ultra hurt that did not play the qualifiers
CaStrO probably, but he doesn't play in events so much - didn't play in either qualifier to my knowledge. I remember Dienmax losing to Sayle just a few years back. (Sayle top 5 Peru ).
Dyna and laabuela should play in events as well if they want to be considered.
fawk i missed this. I think theres like 2 players who signed up that would give me a hard time outside of ty2 and micheal. and those 2 are so winnable zvz because of the mu XD
On November 21 2017 00:45 EndingLife wrote: Any official updates on this tourney? Are Dandy/Terror playing? Who are the invites? I haven't seen much info lately..
I heard the organizers are working on a post to announce all of the information. I imagine it'll come soon, but I don't have an official timeline.
First, I would like to thank all the players that have participated in the ZOTAC CUP Masters Qualifiers. Also, I would like to thank Sayle, Qikz, and Schamtoo for bringing us some awesome analysis as casters for these qualifiers.
Now, I know a lot of you guys are wondering "So what's the deal with the SA #2 spot?"
Since Dandy and Terror were not able to obtain a visa, we decided to move down the tree and look towards the 2nd-5th placing players to fill that spot; however, this proved to be a "dead end" also since all but Ultra had a valid visa to participate. That being said, Ultra was then extended the invite to replace Terror for SA#1 spot.
For SA#2, in order to keep the LAN competitive and after finding out that the top 5 (besides Ultra) had no valid visas. We decided to look into having a NA player fill the spot. Ranged, Ty2, and KawaiiRice were asked to participate in a Round Robin to fill this spot. Ty2 came out on top; however, due to not having a valid ID required to board flights, the spot was passed to KawaiiRice.
That being said, please see below for the players, rule-set, maps, etc... for the ZOTAC CUP Masters LAN finals.
PS. Due to Dragon being the only Protoss in the event, we decided to give him the SA#2 seed.
Saturday - December 02, 2017 - Start 10 AM
Players: NA 1 – Hawk (Z), NA 2 – Dragon(Pain) (P), NA 3 – Nyoken (T), NA 4 – Michael (Z), SA 1 – Ultra (T), SA 2 – KawaiiRice (T) Format: Double Elimination Bracket | Best of 3 matches in both Winners and Losers | Grand Finals will be a Best of 5. *** PLEASE NOTE *** Grand Finals maybe played on December 03, 2017.
Maps: Circuit Breakers 1.0, Fighting Spirit, Tau Cross, Crossing Field, and Troy Bracket: Match 1: Draco vs Larva Match 2: Legend vs December 02 Finalist
So sad that Dandy and TerrOr couldnt acquire visas :/ But I am still hyped as f**k and will definitly tune in for the whole event, even though it will most likely be on night time ;D
On November 21 2017 04:01 dixotto wrote: Ty2 is selfish. He eliminated a lot of the players and he knew all along that he couldn't go anyways to the finals.
I think you should stray away from making baseless conclusions. I mean, you don't really know what happened or why things happened the way they did.
On November 21 2017 04:01 dixotto wrote: Ty2 is selfish. He eliminated a lot of the players and he knew all along that he couldn't go anyways to the finals.
Ty2 was not selfish. If he had won in the previous qualifiers, Ty2 would have ample time to apply and receive a travel ID.
He offered to give his position to KawaiiRice after winning the Round Robin due to fact that he might not be able to obtain a valid travel document in time and didn't want us (ZOTAC CUP) to risk ending up not having a player for the SA#2 spot. He was pretty selfless in this regards.
Driver's licenses or other state photo identity cards issued by Department of Motor Vehicles (or equivalent) U.S. passport U.S. passport card DHS trusted traveler cards (Global Entry, NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST) U.S. Department of Defense ID, including IDs issued to dependents Permanent resident card Border crossing card DHS-designated enhanced driver's license Federally recognized, tribal-issued photo ID HSPD-12 PIV card Foreign government-issued passport Canadian provincial driver's license or Indian and Northern Affairs Canada card Transportation worker identification credential U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Employment Authorization Card (I-766) U.S. Merchant Mariner Credential
ID requirements at the checkpoint will change beginning Jan. 22, 2018. Learn about REAL ID, read the FAQ or factsheet.
Congrats to Nyoken, Hawk, Dragon, Michael, Ultra and Kawaii. I'm super looking forward to this event. I got to play in 3 of the qualifiers and had a great time. It's too bad that Ty2 couldn't make it, but hopefully this will encourage him to get an ID so that he can travel to other events in the future. Hopefully there will be more opportunities.
On December 01 2017 11:16 SCC-Faust wrote: I'm rooting for Hawk. He is probably the only reason I'll be tuning in. Dude is so well mannered and very skilled.
Hawk has a serious shot at winning this thing for sure. I think. Lot of players will underestimate him.
On December 01 2017 17:19 FlaShFTW wrote: Jaeyun is taking the place of Nyoken. Jaeyun is a UCSD graduate who carried his team to a CSL win in 2009 and a runner up in 2010. GO JAEYUN!
On December 01 2017 17:19 FlaShFTW wrote: Jaeyun is taking the place of Nyoken. Jaeyun is a UCSD graduate who carried his team to a CSL win in 2009 and a runner up in 2010. GO JAEYUN!
"So a guy from South America has to come to Great America of Donald Trump to scrape (as far as) easy money and the guy in addition has a nickname TERROR.
On December 01 2017 17:19 FlaShFTW wrote: Jaeyun is taking the place of Nyoken. Jaeyun is a UCSD graduate who carried his team to a CSL win in 2009 and a runner up in 2010. GO JAEYUN!
Is this serious?
Yes this is serious. He just made a post in the UCSD Starcraft facebook group. Apparently Nyoken had to drop out due to an emergency sadly.
On December 01 2017 19:04 Poegim wrote: "So a guy from South America has to come to Great America of Donald Trump to scrape (as far as) easy money and the guy in addition has a nickname TERROR.
What could go wrong?"
Copyright pksrocco @ netwars.pl
There wont be no Terror on american soil without passport.
I hope everything is okay with Nyoken. Jaeyun is a great player, so this should not take anything away from the tournament. Personally, this makes it more exciting to me as I'm a fan of him and now I have another person to root for.
Sucks even worse for the people who were practicing vs Terran. Who is in charge of announcements and why aren't they announcing these changes? Is this TeamLiquid thread not the main place to find updates for this tournament?
On December 01 2017 17:19 FlaShFTW wrote: Jaeyun is taking the place of Nyoken. Jaeyun is a UCSD graduate who carried his team to a CSL win in 2009 and a runner up in 2010. GO JAEYUN!
Is this serious?
Yes this is serious. He just made a post in the UCSD Starcraft facebook group. Apparently Nyoken had to drop out due to an emergency sadly.
On December 02 2017 16:18 Lazare1969 wrote: larva's unaware that it's impolite to ask for someone's age in america, especially if it's a woman and you're just greeting her
lol what? in a country where u can go prison for dating a girl under 18 i think the first thing to do is that.
On December 02 2017 16:18 Lazare1969 wrote: larva's unaware that it's impolite to ask for someone's age in america, especially if it's a woman and you're just greeting her
lol what? in a country where u can go prison for dating a girl under 18 i think the first thing to do is that.
It's also impolite to ask someone's salary here too, which is just as stupid.
But you'll only go to prison for having sex with a girl under 18. Dating one wouldn't do anything but get people to eye you suspiciously.
On December 02 2017 16:18 Lazare1969 wrote: larva's unaware that it's impolite to ask for someone's age in america, especially if it's a woman and you're just greeting her
lol what? in a country where u can go prison for dating a girl under 18 i think the first thing to do is that.
It's also impolite to ask someone's salary here too, which is just as stupid.
But you'll only go to prison for having sex with a girl under 18. Dating one wouldn't do anything but get people to eye you suspiciously.
why would you date someone you can't have sex with?
On December 03 2017 05:27 elKa-ThE-FeArEd wrote: Why are dragon and ultra higher seeded? Or did they already play some games?
Because it was intended as a 6 player tournament. Whilst there were 4 qualifiers for the NA region, there were only 2 qualifiers for the SA region. Hence only 2 people could attend from SA and got a higher seed. Dandy and Terror were the winner of the SA qualifier, but couldnt attend due to visa issues and only Ultra was able to obtain a visa and claim a SA spot. Last seeding spot was then given to Dragon due to the nature of him being the only protoss in the tournament.
On December 03 2017 05:27 elKa-ThE-FeArEd wrote: Why are dragon and ultra higher seeded? Or did they already play some games?
Because it was intended as a 6 player tournament. Whilst there were 4 qualifiers for the NA region, there were only 2 qualifiers for the SA region. Hence only 2 people could attend from SA and got a higher seed. Dandy and Terror were the winner of the SA qualifier, but couldnt attend due to visa issues and only Ultra was able to obtain a visa and claim a SA spot. Last seeding spot was then given to Dragon due to the nature of him being the only protoss in the tournament.
I'm really happy this tournament is happening. I'm just a little sad that only Day9 is the only person who seems to want to talk about the tournament at hand in a $20k tournament
The remastered event style worked well for that event, but this is a huge tournament. Maybe I'm just an old fuddy duddy and stuck in the past, but I'm not a big fan of this style of casting.
On December 03 2017 08:16 Qikz wrote: I'm really happy this tournament is happening. I'm just a little sad that only Day9 is the only person who seems to want to talk about the tournament at hand in a $20k tournament
The remastered event style worked well for that event, but this is a huge tournament. Maybe I'm just an old fuddy duddy and stuck in the past, but I'm not a big fan of this style of casting.
I'm still enjoying the event though.
I like that a lot actually. It gives context to people who may not be familiar with Brood War or the foreign scene. It puts a lot of character into this tournament instead of just the play by play and the analysis, which I think is important for the future of the scene. Personality and the feel of community is absolutely paramount for the foreign scene, imo.
On December 03 2017 08:16 Qikz wrote: I'm really happy this tournament is happening. I'm just a little sad that only Day9 is the only person who seems to want to talk about the tournament at hand in a $20k tournament
The remastered event style worked well for that event, but this is a huge tournament. Maybe I'm just an old fuddy duddy and stuck in the past, but I'm not a big fan of this style of casting.
I'm still enjoying the event though.
I like that a lot actually. It gives context to people who may not be familiar with Brood War or the foreign scene. It puts a lot of character into this tournament instead of just the play by play and the analysis, which I think is important for the future of the scene. Personality and the feel of community is absolutely paramount for the foreign scene, imo.
I think the things you are talking about are important but that if they flipped the ratio of actually talking about the game versus banter it would be a lot better. It's like 75% banter 25% casting with Day9 being 80% of that 25%. It gets tiresome quickly, at least for me.
I have never seen so many useless commands in a game. This dude literally spend 5 seconds moving 6 zerglings in front of a tight stork wall while he neglected everything else. 400 apm of which 350 were useless.
This was more painful to watch than watching a complete beginner playing the game.
Yer, a great like Stork would be to much for any foreigner I would think.
Sneaky exp by Ultra in that first game. I though Kawaiirice was going alright in that game but didn't see that hidden exp until very late. Just seemed down hill from there. Game 2 was great by Ultra just all over Kawaiirice. Shame since I've liked Kawaiirice since his SC2 days.
Just watched VODs from yesterday. Great games and great event. Tnx Zotac!
Also great job Schamtoo. I bet it is not easy to keep on top of every game for such a long time while guys casting are all over the place with their commentary.
ye for the most part the observing was really good, it was prob exhausting trying to coordinate commentary with the action on the map for that many games and hours
On December 04 2017 05:10 tankgirl wrote: im sorry to spoil it for everyone but Larva is going to make the other players look like noobs
#1 larva fan
he already did, beating them with offraces :D but I must say. Even though he is gonna own everyone, he is a great addition, probably best Korean that could be invited. His stream yesterday really made this event more interesting for me. He was integrating with foreigners in great way, watched all the games, did interviews with players etc. Great stuff.
On December 04 2017 06:02 iamho wrote: This would be better with just day9 casting, the others don't even talk about the game.
i agree with you... all other sits and laughing, its everything they are doing. I am not against fun, but come on, this is too much, ok that you are having fun but its also a job and you are paid i suppose not so funny salary, so be a bit more professional also
Draco played really well. If only he had the macro during the last game he would have won the #1 zerg. I can't remember any other bo-series where a foreigner got this close vs a top korean.
It's gone from 25% cast 75% jerking one another off yesterday to 10% cast 90% jerking each other off today
Like no joke, 7 minutes just passed without them saying a single thing about the game. The observer is the only person making this tolerable. Makes me think it must be shitty for people like Sayle who actually cast when the only thing making this stream a starcraft stream is the fact that the game is literally on the screen; the audio is just three guys shooting the shit about completely unrelated topics while the fourth guy occasionally tries to talk about the game but can't get past two sentences before being thrown off topic again.
I like their banter in the interim and the charades and dad jokes and shit are hilarious but give it a rest during the games, man.
On December 04 2017 09:01 Piste wrote: Draco played really well. If only he had the macro during the last game he would have won the #1 zerg. I can't remember any other bo-series where a foreigner got this close vs a top korean.
Draco 2-3 Firebathero at Italien Esports Open
also PJ vs Savior as far as i remember. And Mondragon beat Savior too, although it was a Bo1.
Congrats to Michael the CHEESEKING and Dragon! That 2 stargate game from Draco was super close, I thought he had a good chance to 2-0 if those muta didn't wreck everything.
I must say, this event has been amazing! I love the production, having actual content for the breaks between matches is wonderful. Larva having some fun and getting to hear the interviews with him have been super entertaining as well.
I've watched a lot of Brood War, Starcraft 2, and a million other esports events. I wish every single one of them was like this. It's amazing how much of a difference production quality makes. Very grateful to Zotac for putting this on! :D
On December 04 2017 11:27 outscar wrote: I wanna see more of these casters together on coach. Zotac pls let it happen. We need more of this in our life.
So much this. It's a tough group to bring together, but magical!
This cast is like watching Revenge of the Nerds, damn... Thank god for Day9 bringing some actual analytic commentary. I used to really like Tasteless when he first started casting BW at GomTV. Same with when Artosis was covering courage tournaments. Is it just me? Right now they hardly even know who Larva is. These guys used to have more background info than was available via TL, now they don't even bother to do their homework. They're ASL's main English casters... Ha...
I sincerely hope they stop riding so much on their former success. There are much better BW casters out there with way less experience, it's really sad to see.
On December 04 2017 12:45 Peeano wrote: This cast is like watching Revenge of the Nerds, damn... Thank god for Day9 bringing some actual analytic commentary. I used to really like Tasteless when he first started casting BW at GomTV. Same with when Artosis was covering courage tournaments. Is it just me? Right now they hardly even know who Larva is. These guys used to have more background info than was available via TL, now they don't even bother to do their homework. They're ASL's main English casters... Ha...
I sincerely hope they stop riding so much on their former success. There are much better BW casters out there with way less experience, it's really sad to see.
To be honest, the quality of their casting at the start was pretty bad, it kind of improved gradually over time. Personally, I think Tastosis are much better than Day9 because Day9 is very focused on the analysis and the movements of the units, I think Tastosis (in ASL) were much more focused on the players and the entertainment value.
I don't think this tournament is representative of their casting as a whole, it's not the normal, professional casting format. There is also not much info available on any of the players except Larva.
On December 04 2017 12:45 Peeano wrote: This cast is like watching Revenge of the Nerds, damn... Thank god for Day9 bringing some actual analytic commentary. I used to really like Tasteless when he first started casting BW at GomTV. Same with when Artosis was covering courage tournaments. Is it just me? Right now they hardly even know who Larva is. These guys used to have more background info than was available via TL, now they don't even bother to do their homework. They're ASL's main English casters... Ha...
I sincerely hope they stop riding so much on their former success. There are much better BW casters out there with way less experience, it's really sad to see.
No one does a fun cast better than Tastosis, Day9 and Inc. They play really well of eachother. I can't remember the last time I've actually lol'd watching a stream cast by anyone else. Or maybe I've been conditioned to only listen to Tastosis.
On December 04 2017 12:45 Peeano wrote: This cast is like watching Revenge of the Nerds, damn... Thank god for Day9 bringing some actual analytic commentary. I used to really like Tasteless when he first started casting BW at GomTV. Same with when Artosis was covering courage tournaments. Is it just me? Right now they hardly even know who Larva is. These guys used to have more background info than was available via TL, now they don't even bother to do their homework. They're ASL's main English casters... Ha...
I sincerely hope they stop riding so much on their former success. There are much better BW casters out there with way less experience, it's really sad to see.
I don't think this is really not intended to be a serious cast. This is barely a tournament since everyody knows that larva is essentially messing around for fun. This is much more in the vein of the SCR launch event stream, a bunch of guys having a laugh, and dipping into commentary when the games get interesting. There are lots of serious casts done by knowledgable, analytical casters, but these kind of events are great fun and worth watching because it's very rare that they happen. Mostly because apart from these guys, there aren't really any casters in esports who can keep up solid banter for eight hours and it still be funny because they have such history and chemistry. So I'm happy to have these while they're around.
On December 04 2017 12:45 Peeano wrote: This cast is like watching Revenge of the Nerds, damn... Thank god for Day9 bringing some actual analytic commentary. I used to really like Tasteless when he first started casting BW at GomTV. Same with when Artosis was covering courage tournaments. Is it just me? Right now they hardly even know who Larva is. These guys used to have more background info than was available via TL, now they don't even bother to do their homework. They're ASL's main English casters... Ha...
I sincerely hope they stop riding so much on their former success. There are much better BW casters out there with way less experience, it's really sad to see.
I don't think this is really not intended to be a serious cast. This is barely a tournament since everyody knows that larva is essentially messing around for fun. This is much more in the vein of the SCR launch event stream, a bunch of guys having a laugh, and dipping into commentary when the games get interesting. There are lots of serious casts done by knowledgable, analytical casters, but these kind of events are great fun and worth watching because it's very rare that they happen. Mostly because apart from these guys, there aren't really any casters in esports who can keep up solid banter for eight hours and it still be funny because they have such history and chemistry. So I'm happy to have these while they're around.
My point is they do this every time, even when casting just 2 hours (ASL). I guess I like casters to be more analytical because it effectively raises the level of understanding of a lot of casual players playing on b.net. In turn giving me a better b.net experience and their humor just isn't my thing.
I'm laughing at what I'm seeing, but Larva is being kind of a dick. Literally everyone knows that he's basically been given $10k for free by being invited to this event. Afaik, it's not like LX insulted Larva such that Larva feels he has to make some sort of statement. As a result, notwithstanding Larva's obvious personal enjoyment of the situation, I feel like his antics come across as more meanspirited than in good fun.
On December 04 2017 13:23 Ganfei2 wrote: Larva is being kind of a dick. Literally everyone knows that he's basically been given $10k for free by being invited to this event. Afaik, it's not like LX insulted Larva such that Larva feels he has to make some sort of statement. As a result, notwithstanding Larva's obvious personal enjoyment of the situation, I feel like his antics come across as more meanspirited than in good fun.
On December 04 2017 13:23 Ganfei2 wrote: Larva is being kind of a dick. Literally everyone knows that he's basically been given $10k for free by being invited to this event. Afaik, it's not like LX insulted Larva such that Larva feels he has to make some sort of statement. As a result, notwithstanding Larva's obvious personal enjoyment of the situation, I feel like his antics come across as more meanspirited than in good fun.
I take it you haven't seen larva play at an event before... he's all about banter, even against top players
On December 04 2017 13:23 Ganfei2 wrote: Larva is being kind of a dick. Literally everyone knows that he's basically been given $10k for free by being invited to this event. Afaik, it's not like LX insulted Larva such that Larva feels he has to make some sort of statement. As a result, notwithstanding Larva's obvious personal enjoyment of the situation, I feel like his antics come across as more meanspirited than in good fun.
I take it you haven't seen larva play at an event before... he's all about banter, even against top players
I've seen him play a ton on his stream, where he does all sorts of funny shit. I think it's fine to do that stuff to entertain viewers--and like I said, I laughed at this--but there is a time and a place for everything. If it turns out he and Lx are great friends and Lx laughs it off as no big deal, then fine, it's not my place to feel insulted for Lx. But this isn't really "banter," this is "I'm shitting on you, which everyone knows I would, but in as humiliating a way as I can and for no reason but to get a laugh." Lastly, just to be clear, Larva strikes me as a nice guy, I don't think he's trying to be malicious, and he probably does legitimately think it's funny. To me, however, it still comes off as I've described.
Just sitting back with his arms crossed now. Larva is just taking the piss I love it. I think he's a pretty cool person though but he's just having fun.
It's entertaining but I think it has been done at the expense of another person so I personally wasn't a fan. I don't think Lx did anything to deserve getting disrespected like that.
I had fun watching this tournament though. Thanks Zotac!
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
I laughed pretty damn hard when I saw his foot on the keyboard but it's sad such a fun tournament had to end on that note, and I feel bad it was using somebody else for comedy, especially a player as good as Lx, he did not deserve that. I hope he took it all in good humour, it's horrible to think of him essentially being brought out to be humiliated. Maybe it's a cultural thing, i dunno, I can very much see why incontrol was so pissed off.
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
Yeah he played seriously against Draco but twice fooled around vs Lx
It seemed like an anti-Chinese thing more than anything else. Larva seemed nice to all the other players besides Lx. Or maybe there's some other beef we don't know about. Wonder what the Korean community is saying about this.
I enjoyed the antics. It was a bit BM, but it brought some entertainment to what would have otherwise been a very boring match. If a Korean is going to play in a tournament with foreigners, they have to make it interesting somehow.
It's hard to imagine Lx being particularly upset about it. Maybe a bit sheepish, but I'd imagine he can understand and laugh with it.
Wowow Incontrol was so salty, he needs to cool down. After all he was joking around 2 days many hours non stop and he got offended by some moves (which are ten times better than his jokes).
On December 04 2017 13:23 Ganfei2 wrote: I'm laughing at what I'm seeing, but Larva is being kind of a dick. Literally everyone knows that he's basically been given $10k for free by being invited to this event. Afaik, it's not like LX insulted Larva such that Larva feels he has to make some sort of statement. As a result, notwithstanding Larva's obvious personal enjoyment of the situation, I feel like his antics come across as more meanspirited than in good fun.
oh please, the skill gap is so big that larva felt this tournament was a joke to begin with. Not his fault he couldnt take anyone seriously. Seriously some players were d+ level and i am not even memeing
I respect Incontrol for showing his disapproval during the interview (and at times during the games), at least that is how I interpreted it. Like someone else wrote I don't think Larva had malicious intent, I just think he enjoys the attention and that he really thinks people like what he did. However, I think the display was over the top and really disrespectful.
I think Legend might have played worse after he noticed that he was getting BM'd this hard in the first game. I hope he is still happy with the money he earned from the tournament. After all, he finished second and beat out some pretty darn good players.
On December 04 2017 13:23 Ganfei2 wrote: I'm laughing at what I'm seeing, but Larva is being kind of a dick. Literally everyone knows that he's basically been given $10k for free by being invited to this event. Afaik, it's not like LX insulted Larva such that Larva feels he has to make some sort of statement. As a result, notwithstanding Larva's obvious personal enjoyment of the situation, I feel like his antics come across as more meanspirited than in good fun.
oh please, the skill gap is so big that larva felt this tournament was a joke to begin with. Not his fault he couldnt take anyone seriously. Seriously some players were d+ level and i am not even memeing
I mean, he was invited to a tournament where he was treated very well and basically being gifted prize money so I don't think it is too much to ask that he respect the event and its participants.
Imagine if FBH was invited instead of Larva. Imagine him doing that moves he did vs. Savior to Legend in front of him. Will you still say it's BM? C'mon, it's fucking ceremony, get over with it snowflakes.
Wow super disappointed in larva loved him in korea but mannn that was a real dick move. I mean your brought out for pretty much a free 10K at least dont be a complete dick about it. Hearing alot about it being an anti chinese thing reallly hope that isnt true because that would be some bullshit.
On December 04 2017 14:05 CognacLover wrote: Imagine if FBH was invited instead of Larva. Imagine him doing that moves he did vs. Savior to Legend in front of him. Will you still say it's BM? C'mon, it's fucking ceremony, get over with it snowflakes.
What fbh did to savior wasnt even close to this. Also he won the italian open and did his dance, it was funny.
I personally think it's okay. Look at nfl touch downs. Or goals on hockey where the whole team celebrating after a goal in front of enemy net, or when sports players just abuse their skill gab in a taunting way on live TV. It's just for fun. But. What I like is not always what you like*. So that is also true.
And he didn't do it vs. Legend on.purpose and there isn't any.Korea vs. China thing going on. Dude's just acting like McGregor. He made so many.puns on ASL (IIRC vs. Light, Shine, Effort) and in mid game he just standed up to perform ceremony on WEGL vs. Sea recently. This guy got balls to do it vs. anyone. He was even teasing FlaSh on group selection ceremony.
On December 04 2017 14:10 CognacLover wrote: And he didn't do it vs. Legend on.purpose and there isn't any.Korea vs. China thing going on. Dude's just acting like McGregor. He made so many.puns on ASL (IIRC vs. Light, Shine, Effort) and in mid game he just standed up to perform ceremony on WEGL vs. Sea recently. This guy got balls to do it vs. anyone. He was even teasing FlaSh on group selection ceremony.
Dude there is a huge difference between doing a little boxing meme after a game and being a complete disrespectful ass during the finals of a tournament and you know it. And just because you do it all over the place doesnt make you less of an ass,
On December 04 2017 14:09 wishbonesaka wrote: I personally think it's okay. Look at nfl touch downs. Or goals on hockey where the whole team celebrating after a goal in front of enemy net, or when sports players just abuse their skill gab in a taunting way on live TV. It's just for fun. But. What I like is not always what you like*. So that is also true.
There is a huge difference in celebrating after a win or big score and openly taunting your opponent mid game.
Is this really the world that we live in now? Where people get so offended on someone else's behalf?
Starcraft is a form of entertainment, do we really need to get all out of sorts when someone tries to have and provide a bit of fun? Sure, Legend may have been slightly embarrassed by it. But he had to know as much as everyone else how outclassed he was. I'd bet he understands the entertainment value and can be happy with taking second place and taking part in the entertainment of thousands.
So many hypersensitive people nowadays, why not just relax and have a bit of fun. Let go of all that misdirected anger for a bit!
Larva was actually pretty concerned about whether people were upset about it... he was asking if there was even a tiny fraction of the foreign fans that didnt like it.
he wanted to do it for foreign viewers cause he thought they liked stuff like that
On December 04 2017 14:09 wishbonesaka wrote: I personally think it's okay. Look at nfl touch downs. Or goals on hockey where the whole team celebrating after a goal in front of enemy net, or when sports players just abuse their skill gab in a taunting way on live TV. It's just for fun. But. What I like is not always what you like*. So that is also true.
There is a huge difference in celebrating after a win or big score and openly taunting your opponent mid game.
Actually Larva already won 3-0 from very start so he was celebrating it as a winner. Also why everyone so butthurt about it, jeez. Those nukes were awesome. Im so fucking glad Larva was there. I wished to see also him on Blizzcon. Look how boring and one sided JD vs. Bisu was. I hope they will continue inviting him even more because he's making things interesting. If you're so offended whenever you see Larva just turn off the stream and go crying back to your pillow. I'm sure as fuck Larva gives zero shit about that. He came to win, to play and on top of that he made it entartaining. You all snowflakes should thank him.
On December 04 2017 14:09 wishbonesaka wrote: I personally think it's okay. Look at nfl touch downs. Or goals on hockey where the whole team celebrating after a goal in front of enemy net, or when sports players just abuse their skill gab in a taunting way on live TV. It's just for fun. But. What I like is not always what you like*. So that is also true.
There is a huge difference in celebrating after a win or big score and openly taunting your opponent mid game.
Actually Larva already won 3-0 from very start so he was celebrating it as a winner. Also why everyone so butthurt about it, jeez. Those nukes were awesome. Im so fucking glad Larva was there. I wished to see also him on Blizzcon. Look how boring and one sided JD vs. Bisu was. I hope they will continue inviting him even more because he's making things interesting. If you're so offended whenever you see Larva just turn off the stream and go crying back to your pillow. I'm sure as fuck Larva gives zero shit about that. He came to win, to play and on top of that he made it entartaining. You all snowflakes should thank him.
You keep writing these responses about "snowflakes" and "crying." Nobody is crying, and nobody is angry. There is mild discontent vis-a-vis Larva's antics, which some view as disrespectful. Perhaps you need to grow up and stop attacking others over their viewpoints, since you yourself are evidently too much of a "snowflake" to tolerate a difference of opinion.
On December 04 2017 14:09 wishbonesaka wrote: I personally think it's okay. Look at nfl touch downs. Or goals on hockey where the whole team celebrating after a goal in front of enemy net, or when sports players just abuse their skill gab in a taunting way on live TV. It's just for fun. But. What I like is not always what you like*. So that is also true.
There is a huge difference in celebrating after a win or big score and openly taunting your opponent mid game.
Actually Larva already won 3-0 from very start so he was celebrating it as a winner. Also why everyone so butthurt about it, jeez. Those nukes were awesome. Im so fucking glad Larva was there. I wished to see also him on Blizzcon. Look how boring and one sided JD vs. Bisu was. I hope they will continue inviting him even more because he's making things interesting. If you're so offended whenever you see Larva just turn off the stream and go crying back to your pillow. I'm sure as fuck Larva gives zero shit about that. He came to win, to play and on top of that he made it entartaining. You all snowflakes should thank him.
It's funny, people who complain about snowflakes are always the ones raging and getting triggered themselves.
People are crybabies these days. They invited him so he is free to do what he wants in game. There's nothing against it. And if his opponent doesn't like it then he should win.
Hahaha I'm calm as fuck and this is my last post there. I like how ppl trying to make things up when it's clearly them starting shtshow over nothing, being triggered looking at posts. Cry me a river ok?
On December 04 2017 14:27 AsianEcksDragon wrote: People are crybabies these days. They invited him so he is free to do what he wants in game. There's nothing against it. And if his opponent doesn't like it then he should win.
Obviously Larva can do what he wants, he's a human being with agency. What that has to do with the perception of disrespect or whether Lx should or should not beat him is a mystery.
On December 04 2017 14:29 CognacLover wrote: Hahaha I'm calm as fuck and this is my last post there. I like how ppl trying to make things up when it's clearly them starting shtshow over nothing, being triggered looking at posts. Cry me a river ok?
On December 04 2017 14:27 AsianEcksDragon wrote: People are crybabies these days. They invited him so he is free to do what he wants in game. There's nothing against it. And if his opponent doesn't like it then he should win.
Using your own logic, this is a forum, people are free to post what they want, they are free to criticize his actions and you're free to criticize theirs.
You're also free to criticize this post FYI, I believe that's how it works.
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
On December 04 2017 14:27 AsianEcksDragon wrote: People are crybabies these days. They invited him so he is free to do what he wants in game. There's nothing against it. And if his opponent doesn't like it then he should win.
These days? As opposed to a couple hundred years ago were embarrassing someone this badly in public would probably end in a duel?
On December 04 2017 14:29 NoS-Craig wrote: Larva was trying to entertain the fans that's all. That's his thing to be entertaining and out there for us to enjoy. I like Larva
Well said, I agree completely.
I can say quite confidently that Larva's intentions were good. He wasn't trying to humiliate his opponent or disrespect him. He thought that foreign fans were likely to understand that and take is as fun goofs rather than serious disrespect. As evidenced by this thread, that's not the case for some. But, I enjoyed it and I was able to introduce some of my friends to Starcraft by having them watch the stream with me and they enjoyed it as well.
starcraft is a game that rewards those who put in the time and effort he plays 100s of games a month and has been doing this on a consistent basis for probably 10+ years since he was trying to join skt back in the days he is a notch above these players because he has earned it and deserved it
On December 04 2017 14:27 AsianEcksDragon wrote: People are crybabies these days. They invited him so he is free to do what he wants in game. There's nothing against it. And if his opponent doesn't like it then he should win.
I dont think anyone will disagree that he is free to do what he wants and of course there is nothing against it. Just as someone who was a fan of him, I even liked the little boxing poses and fun stuff he did after games in the ASL, its just sad for him to take it this far. It went from a fun little celebration to complete asshattery. I dont mind having some fun but the rest of the players came there to play hard and have a good tournament KNOWING there was no way they could win against a high level ASL player. Just sad to see him go that far down
On December 04 2017 14:35 Siz)Beggar wrote: starcraft is a game that rewards those who put in the time and effort he plays 100s of games a month and has been doing this on a consistent basis for probably 10+ years since he was trying to join skt back in the days he is a notch above these players because he has earned it and deserved it
Yeah and im sure LX and some of hte other guys in that tournament train hard too. The difference of course being that they dont live in Korea and do not have access to ASL training partners which of course means they can never be as good. No one is saying he doesnt deserve to win or that he hasnt trained hard to be here that isnt the debate. Its whether that gives you the right to be an ass.
On December 04 2017 14:35 Siz)Beggar wrote: starcraft is a game that rewards those who put in the time and effort he plays 100s of games a month and has been doing this on a consistent basis for probably 10+ years since he was trying to join skt back in the days he is a notch above these players because he has earned it and deserved it
Yeah and im sure LX and some of hte other guys in that tournament train hard too. The difference of course being that they dont live in Korea and do not have access to ASL training partners which of course means they can never be as good. No one is saying he doesnt deserve to win or that he hasnt trained hard to be here that isnt the debate. Its whether that gives you the right to be an ass.
so you think that foreigners cant practice with these pros? i bet bonyth can get games vs top krs right now if he chose to. i can also bet you that lx doesnt play nearly as many games as larva does.
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
I actually really liked this from Larva. Non-Koreans always like to complain when Koreans are allowed to play in tournaments, but they play anyway and allow themselves to be put into these situations where their opponent can just toy with them.
Troll him instead, if you're going to have an issue about it, make the issue known in game. It's the best way to send a message, talking about it before and/or after is pointless.
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
so i take it everyone who is pissed at larva in this thread must despise firebathero as well huh? since fbh is the epitome of what larva just did to legend
On December 04 2017 14:27 AsianEcksDragon wrote: People are crybabies these days. They invited him so he is free to do what he wants in game. There's nothing against it. And if his opponent doesn't like it then he should win.
Using your own logic, this is a forum, people are free to post what they want, they are free to criticize his actions and you're free to criticize theirs.
You're also free to criticize this post FYI, I believe that's how it works.
I agree. I don't believe I ever denied that people are free to criticize his actions. However, I stand by my statement that they are crybabies.
On December 04 2017 14:00 duke91 wrote: oh please, the skill gap is so big that larva felt this tournament was a joke to begin with. Not his fault he couldnt take anyone seriously. Seriously some players were d+ level and i am not even memeing
why attend a joke of a tournament then? Oh right, there's a juicy prize on the line. You wanna get paid for what you're doing - behave professionally. Could you imagine Flash doing shit like that?
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
Lx is a grown man. He can take it. If not then I suggest he wipe his tears with those money he just received.
On December 04 2017 14:19 Song1 wrote: Larva was actually pretty concerned about whether people were upset about it... he was asking if there was even a tiny fraction of the foreign fans that didnt like it.
he wanted to do it for foreign viewers cause he thought they liked stuff like that
well that's good on him then, but intentionally or not he still fucked it up.
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
Lx is a grown man. He can take it. If not then I suggest he wipe his tears with those money he just received.
Everything you've said in this thread constitutes straw man arguments that are at best tangentially related to the issue at hand. "Lx can take it." "If Lx didn't like it, he should just win." Like what?
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
so i take it everyone who is pissed at larva in this thread must despise firebathero as well huh? since fbh is the epitome of what larva just did to legend
This is legitimately confusing me. After-game ceremonies are the epitome of in-game playing with toes/leaning back/killing own units/etc.? Additionally, people who are "defending" Larva, like you, seem to be under the impression that those of us who found his antics disrespectful are "angry" or "pissed." That is, in my case at least, a significant exaggeration. I am merely giving my opinion of Larva's actions in a thread about the tournament he just played in.
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
Lx is a grown man. He can take it. If not then I suggest he wipe his tears with those money he just received.
Everything you've said in this thread constitutes a straw man arguments that are at best tangentially related to the issue at hand. "Lx can take it." "If Lx didn't like it, he should just win." Like what?
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
so i take it everyone who is pissed at larva in this thread must despise firebathero as well huh? since fbh is the epitome of what larva just did to legend
This is legitimately confusing me. After-game ceremonies are the epitome of in-game playing with toes/leaning back/killing own units/etc.? Additionally, people who are "defending" Larva, like you, seem to be under the impression that those of us who found his antics disrespectful are "angry" or "pissed." That is, in my case at least, a significant exaggeration. I am merely giving my opinion of Larva's actions in a thread about the tournament he just played in.
Agreed, I wouldnt say i am legitimately angry or pissed, more just dissapointed. Now Legend, He is fucking pissed. Can't say I blame him. He is beyoooond angry
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
so i take it everyone who is pissed at larva in this thread must despise firebathero as well huh? since fbh is the epitome of what larva just did to legend
FBH played in the italian esports open just a few weeks ago and he was never the least bit BM
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
Lx is a grown man. He can take it. If not then I suggest he wipe his tears with those money he just received.
Everything you've said in this thread constitutes a straw man arguments that are at best tangentially related to the issue at hand. "Lx can take it." "If Lx didn't like it, he should just win." Like what?
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
so i take it everyone who is pissed at larva in this thread must despise firebathero as well huh? since fbh is the epitome of what larva just did to legend
This is legitimately confusing me. After-game ceremonies are the epitome of in-game playing with toes/leaning back/killing own units/etc.? Additionally, people who are "defending" Larva, like you, seem to be under the impression that those of us who found his antics disrespectful are "angry" or "pissed." That is, in my case at least, a significant exaggeration. I am merely giving my opinion of Larva's actions in a thread about the tournament he just played in.
I'll be honest with you. I am still unsure of what the issue is. My best guess is that somebody's feeling was hurt. I'm not even trying to downplay it or anything but it's hard for me to believe that something like this can become such a huge controversy. If you think that I am out of touch then I think you may be right.
I was simply disgusted. Starcraft is for fun, and I have no interest watching shit. If something looks like a shit, smells like a shit, I just stay away. If some other people like shit, or like to study whether it is really shit, it is certainly their freedom.
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
Lx is a grown man. He can take it. If not then I suggest he wipe his tears with those money he just received.
Everything you've said in this thread constitutes a straw man arguments that are at best tangentially related to the issue at hand. "Lx can take it." "If Lx didn't like it, he should just win." Like what?
On December 04 2017 14:49 Siz)Beggar wrote:
On December 04 2017 14:48 juvenal wrote:
On December 04 2017 14:34 jinjin5000 wrote:
On December 04 2017 13:50 GGzerG wrote:
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
so i take it everyone who is pissed at larva in this thread must despise firebathero as well huh? since fbh is the epitome of what larva just did to legend
This is legitimately confusing me. After-game ceremonies are the epitome of in-game playing with toes/leaning back/killing own units/etc.? Additionally, people who are "defending" Larva, like you, seem to be under the impression that those of us who found his antics disrespectful are "angry" or "pissed." That is, in my case at least, a significant exaggeration. I am merely giving my opinion of Larva's actions in a thread about the tournament he just played in.
I'll be honest with you. I am still unsure of what the issue is. My best guess is that somebody's feeling was hurt. I'm not even trying to downplay it or anything but it's hard for me to believe that something like this can become such a huge controversy. If you think that I am out of touch then I think you may be right.
On December 04 2017 14:29 NoS-Craig wrote: Larva was trying to entertain the fans that's all. That's his thing to be entertaining and out there for us to enjoy. I like Larva
Well said, I agree completely.
I can say quite confidently that Larva's intentions were good. He wasn't trying to humiliate his opponent or disrespect him. He thought that foreign fans were likely to understand that and take is as fun goofs rather than serious disrespect. As evidenced by this thread, that's not the case for some. But, I enjoyed it and I was able to introduce some of my friends to Starcraft by having them watch the stream with me and they enjoyed it as well.
I am quite sure larva was trying to bring some funs for the viewers also. However as an adult and current well known player, larva should have thought about how LX might take consideration of this, even he did not mean to show disrespect. and as a result, LX has already expressed his angry by posting thread on his personal blog.
In my opnion, cheese/weird strategy---ok manner hatch in a 100% winning situation---ok nuclear---not that good but still ok playing with feet/cross hands/lying down --- totally bm
I hope someone is able to get to the official or larva directly and let larva know that LX does feel unhappy and larva can apologize for those bms.
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
so i take it everyone who is pissed at larva in this thread must despise firebathero as well huh? since fbh is the epitome of what larva just did to legend
FBH played in the italian esports open just a few weeks ago and he was never the least bit BM
yes, he literally did his ceremony only after Gorynich asked him to do it
In my opnion, cheese/weird strategy---ok manner hatch in a 100% winning situation---ok nuclear---not that good but still ok playing with feet/cross hands/lying down --- totally bm
I hope someone is able to get to the official or larva directly and let larva know that LX does feel unhappy and larva can apologize for those bms.
Yep, totally agree. Plus, it's also bad for ZOTAC brand image here in China, they should think about it seriously, then communicate with Larva and apologize.
No matter SchAmToo, I enjoyed the gamed you Obs quite well. You did a good job interacting with the commentators as well. Pretty cool job to have though. I hope we get to see more events like this in the future. Having a Korean pro there does seem over kill though. Non of us have this as a full time job like they do.
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
Lx is a grown man. He can take it. If not then I suggest he wipe his tears with those money he just received.
Everything you've said in this thread constitutes straw man arguments that are at best tangentially related to the issue at hand. "Lx can take it." "If Lx didn't like it, he should just win." Like what?
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
so i take it everyone who is pissed at larva in this thread must despise firebathero as well huh? since fbh is the epitome of what larva just did to legend
This is legitimately confusing me. After-game ceremonies are the epitome of in-game playing with toes/leaning back/killing own units/etc.? Additionally, people who are "defending" Larva, like you, seem to be under the impression that those of us who found his antics disrespectful are "angry" or "pissed." That is, in my case at least, a significant exaggeration. I am merely giving my opinion of Larva's actions in a thread about the tournament he just played in.
so youre not giving your opinions based off of your emotions and how what he did made you feel ?
On December 04 2017 13:42 LG)Sabbath wrote: Btw maybe it's also a korea vs china rivalry thing going on here
I was wondering this as well, but this was really super disrespectful IMO, I think it was moreso b/c of China vs Korea than anything...
EDIT 1 : InControl looked super mad and it seemed pretty authentic, I can understand why if it was real. It was a really awesome cast, thanks for hosting it guys! Hope to see it again soon, I didn't realize that Larva was playing against all of the foreigners though? I thought it was just a showmatch between Legend and Larva lol, a given he'd win. =\
lol fuck off with your speculation. You don't know shit and you are trying to bring up race issue here.
It was pure larva being a showman/cocky ass.
showmanship at the expence of other people = being an idiot. He gets away doing that on his stream, because he plays against people who both know him personally and know his antics so it's not bm but rather silly banter. It's the same as why you don't play stupid jokes on complete strangers. You could clearly see Legend wasn't amused in the slightest.
so i take it everyone who is pissed at larva in this thread must despise firebathero as well huh? since fbh is the epitome of what larva just did to legend
FBH played in the italian esports open just a few weeks ago and he was never the least bit BM
lol google fbh celebrations and youll see what im talking about since apparently youre new to the scene
we can say that the situation got out of control,i know larva and i know he does this very often,there is a reason he is one of the most populars afreeca streamers,but i also think he lacks offline experiences,i mean is common sense that u cant do this in a final event in front of your oponent,but im also sure he just wanted to be funny,was no the case for many people.and bw is a game that really hit nerves,i can understand legend beind mad.all in all i loved zotac cup and im so jealous i couldnt participate at any of these offline events.BW Fighting!
I know it's only a few saying this but wtf.. I wasn't "pissed" I was doing my usual straight face dry humor lol. I asked him about his thigh for fuck sakes. How can people read that as anger?
I just pulled a 9 hour day after a 13 hour day. Some of you all really want drama.. get outside or something. We were all fine there.
On December 04 2017 15:05 thinkinger wrote: I was simply disgusted. Starcraft is for fun, and I have no interest watching shit. If something looks like a shit, smells like a shit, I just stay away. If some other people like shit, or like to study whether it is really shit, it is certainly their freedom.
It was a showmatch tournament. Larva was putting on a show.
He should've asked Legend if he was ok if he messed around and maybe he did take it a bit far, but it was kind of funny.
On December 04 2017 17:42 iNcontroL wrote: I know it's only a few saying this but wtf.. I wasn't "pissed" I was doing my usual straight face dry humor lol. I asked him about his thigh for fuck sakes. How can people read that as anger?
I just pulled a 9 hour day after a 13 hour day. Some of you all really want drama.. get outside or something. We were all fine there.
to be fair, your straight face looked pretty angry to people who weren't familiar with your usual face. Think most of ygosu korean community thought you were straight out pissed, as well as reddit
On December 04 2017 17:42 iNcontroL wrote: I know it's only a few saying this but wtf.. I wasn't "pissed" I was doing my usual straight face dry humor lol. I asked him about his thigh for fuck sakes. How can people read that as anger?
I just pulled a 9 hour day after a 13 hour day. Some of you all really want drama.. get outside or something. We were all fine there.
to be fair, your straight face looked pretty angry to people who weren't familiar with your usual face. Think most of ygosu korean community thought you were straight out pissed, as well as reddit
I think some people knew Incontrol wasn't mad, but wanted to push a narrative
On December 04 2017 17:42 iNcontroL wrote: I know it's only a few saying this but wtf.. I wasn't "pissed" I was doing my usual straight face dry humor lol. I asked him about his thigh for fuck sakes. How can people read that as anger?
I just pulled a 9 hour day after a 13 hour day. Some of you all really want drama.. get outside or something. We were all fine there.
to be fair, your straight face looked pretty angry to people who weren't familiar with your usual face. Think most of ygosu korean community thought you were straight out pissed, as well as reddit
I think some people knew Incontrol wasn't mad, but wanted to push a narrative
LOL really guys? It was just all good fun and only intended to entertain his korean fans. Why the heck would you be mad at Larva. People can't take stuff like that as fun anymore, all they do is be offended. wtf....
And let’s dispel once and for all with this fiction that ZOTAC Cup doesn’t know what they are doing. They know exactly what they are doing. It was an invitational, no one with half a brain expected to watch even matches or expected Larva to drop a game. The whole appeal was the names, the casters, and the antics. It was refreshing and nostalgic to watch Lx and Draco, as well as hilarious to see Larva with his shenanigans & the casting by incontrol/day9/tasteless/artosis.
I dunno, it was a laid back event and I had a ton of fun watching it. I can't think of more iconic commentators than the ones they brought in from any e-sport or game. I can literally watch a rerun of 2 Girls 1 Cup all day to the commentary of incontrol and tasteless with the occasional serious analyzing by day9 and the random meme by artosis.
On December 04 2017 17:42 iNcontroL wrote: I know it's only a few saying this but wtf.. I wasn't "pissed" I was doing my usual straight face dry humor lol. I asked him about his thigh for fuck sakes. How can people read that as anger?
I just pulled a 9 hour day after a 13 hour day. Some of you all really want drama.. get outside or something. We were all fine there.
I've seen you host for a long time now, this particular instance seemed off to me, not trying to start any drama, just called what I saw.
With retrospection it’s more clear that Larva was doing it to put on a show for the viewers. I’m sure he didn’t do it to insult legend nor do I think it was anything more than just him being a showman. I will say it sucks that legend had to be the butt if it and I feel a bit sorry for him but Larva surely didn’t mean it maliciously. All in all a really fun tournament. I could listen to those casters riff and talk about the old days for hours on end. The nostalgia is overwhelming lol. GG
On December 04 2017 21:42 Sea[SR] wrote: Larva just showed what he thinks about foreigners starcraft skill.
He was being a showman in a showmatch series.
This entire thing is being blown way out of proportion.
why do you complain about the cast then ?
I wasn't complaining about the cast. I merely said it's not entirely to my liking as on the first day they spoke about the game very little. My personal preference for the event would've been different, but I understand why they did what they did. I enjoyed it regardless, I just wish they'd have spoken about the game more, I'd love to have heard their insight about things more often!
On December 04 2017 21:42 Sea[SR] wrote: Larva just showed what he thinks about foreigners starcraft skill.
He was being a showman in a showmatch series.
This entire thing is being blown way out of proportion.
why do you complain about the cast then ?
I wasn't complaining about the cast. I merely said it's not entirely to my liking as on the first day they spoke about the game very little. My personal preference for the event would've been different, but I understand why they did what they did. I enjoyed it regardless, I just wish they'd have spoken about the game more, I'd love to have heard their insight about things more often!
Yeah I’m kinda torn lol. I love deep analysis of BW but by god I do enjoy the group of them just riffing. I could listen to their nostalgia talk for hours lol.
ZOTAC China just released a statement on its official Weibo (in Chinese) Apparently ZOTAC is not informed before hand by Larva with his actions and has not given him their approval. ZOTAC apologize to Luo Xian (Legend) and would ban Larva from any more ZOTAC event.
On December 04 2017 23:25 Yiome wrote: ZOTAC China just released a statement on its official Weibo (in Chinese) Apparently ZOTAC is not informed before hand by Larva with his actions and has not given him their approval. ZOTAC apologize to Luo Xian (Legend) and would ban Larva from any more ZOTAC event.
On December 04 2017 23:25 Yiome wrote: ZOTAC China just released a statement on its official Weibo (in Chinese) Apparently ZOTAC is not informed before hand by Larva with his actions and has not given him their approval. ZOTAC apologize to Luo Xian (Legend) and would ban Larva from any more ZOTAC event.
great news!
I don't know about great news, but it's a good response to the situation.
On December 04 2017 23:25 Yiome wrote: ZOTAC China just released a statement on its official Weibo (in Chinese) Apparently ZOTAC is not informed before hand by Larva with his actions and has not given him their approval. ZOTAC apologize to Luo Xian (Legend) and would ban Larva from any more ZOTAC event.
great news!
I don't know about great news, but it's a good response to the situation.
The only possible response before things getting even more out of hand. Good damage control, if it is better if nothing like this happened in the first place. But who knows, if not for this probably there won't be much media attention to a bw tourney in the first place. So a swift response might actually earn ZOTAC some PR points? lol
everything was good, except commentary during games because they were more about like telling jokes to each other, than actually caring about the games being played, i watched JimRising's stream instead during the games. what i really liked were the interviews, and the silly games between each series
On December 04 2017 23:58 MymSlorm wrote: everything was good, except commentary during games because they were more about like telling jokes to each other, than actually caring about the games being played, i watched JimRising's stream instead during the games. what i really liked were the interviews, and the silly games between each series
I'm pretty sure that was the style of cast they were aiming for tho. Zotac probably wanted them to replicate the style of casting that was done during the launch event (laid back, friends joking around with each other etc.) seeing as it was a huge success.
The only reason Zotac NA happened is because the organizers loved the launch event. Big name personalities/casters draw the viewers and most people love watching casual/laid back casts. The odds of us having a big BW tourney without casters like Artosis/Day9/iNcontroL/Tasteless is very unlikely. Organizers won't invest money into a game if there's no big draw (unless Blizzard steps in and starts pumping money into the scene).
On December 04 2017 23:58 MymSlorm wrote: everything was good, except commentary during games because they were more about like telling jokes to each other, than actually caring about the games being played, i watched JimRising's stream instead during the games. what i really liked were the interviews, and the silly games between each series
I'm pretty sure that was the style of cast they were aiming for tho. Zotac probably wanted them to replicate the style of casting that was done during the launch event (laid back, friends joking around with each other etc.) seeing as it was a huge success.
Yeah, I think the cast was great (within the style they were aiming for).
Personally, I would have preferred a different style, but many others preferred this style.
I guess they had to improvise as not all the casters are up to date with the brood war scene. At least Day9 and Artosis were trying to talk about the games being played. Even though I was watching for the games and not the comedy, I thought it was a great cast overall.
On December 04 2017 17:42 iNcontroL wrote: I know it's only a few saying this but wtf.. I wasn't "pissed" I was doing my usual straight face dry humor lol. I asked him about his thigh for fuck sakes. How can people read that as anger?
I just pulled a 9 hour day after a 13 hour day. Some of you all really want drama.. get outside or something. We were all fine there.
i re-watched the games, and it wasn't just your face and mood after the game and during the interview, but the way you spoke after the leg incident during game 3, it was like when people make jokes about your dog not moving. Like an angry person who don't want to show he's pissed off
I was looking at your words and how you type and if you look closely it's like an idiot trying to find drama / meaning in something when it's explained by that person that they weren't mad ...
On December 04 2017 17:42 iNcontroL wrote: I know it's only a few saying this but wtf.. I wasn't "pissed" I was doing my usual straight face dry humor lol. I asked him about his thigh for fuck sakes. How can people read that as anger?
I just pulled a 9 hour day after a 13 hour day. Some of you all really want drama.. get outside or something. We were all fine there.
i re-watched the games, and it wasn't just your face and mood after the game and during the interview, but the way you spoke after the leg incident during game 3, it was like when people make jokes about your dog not moving. Like an angry person who don't want to show he's pissed off
I feel like you have never watched an Incontrol cast or hell even the rest of the event.
I think it’s pretty much inarguable that what Larva did was rude and disrespectful given that his opponent was not in on the joke. It’s patently obvious that it will be insulting in these circumstances. I don’t think Larva was being malicious, but it really reflects poorly on his self-judgment that this wasn’t apparent to him.
What does amaze me is the level of vitriol we’re seeing in the defenses put forward for Larva by various people in this thread and elsewhere. The most common seems to be that Larva’s antics made the series more entertaining and that Lx would have lost anyways. Well, no shit? What’s that got to do with whether it was rude or insulting or offensive? Larva does these things on his stream all the time, but that’s a different context than doing it in a livecasted LAN showmatch where *everyone* knows he is the overwhelming favorite and where he has basically been given a free trip to the US to be handed a $10k check. Another is "maybe Lx should have won if he didn't like it" or "maybe Lx should get good instead of crying." Again...???? What's that got to do with whether it was insulting or rude?
It seems incredibly difficult for some people to hold these two ideas in their mind simultaneously: that what Larva did was rude, but that they also found it entertaining. I guess the conclusion that follows--that you enjoyed something that many found to be meanspirited--is too much to admit? Therefore Larva was entirely justified and there is no issue whatsoever despite the objective fact that there seems to be a 50/50 split between that opinion and the opinion that it was rude and insulting? (and again--it doesn't need to be a split, because the two ideas can exist simultaneously).Come on.
I honestly feel like if you can’t see this you’re either still a teenager who’s never had to interact in the adult world or you’re the kind of person who is completely socially oblivious and is a pain in the ass for those in your social orbit.
GREAT Tournament! loved the cast with the old pal's
Day 9 doing a great job in his flipflops The only part that's sad is that so many people had to cancel the tournament, though its nothing ZOTAC can really do about it
really hope there will be more of these tournaments
On December 04 2017 23:58 MymSlorm wrote: everything was good, except commentary during games because they were more about like telling jokes to each other, than actually caring about the games being played, i watched JimRising's stream instead during the games. what i really liked were the interviews, and the silly games between each series
The odds of us having a big BW tourney without casters like Artosis/Day9/iNcontroL/Tasteless is very unlikely. Organizers won't invest money into a game if there's no big draw (unless Blizzard steps in and starts pumping money into the scene).
As entertaining as the casters were, I don't think we're going to keep getting BW events if we can only average a few thousand viewers throughout the entire tournament :/
The launch event did extremely well in terms of viewership and there was probably a lot of hope that this tournament could reach those numbers but unfortunately that did not happen.
On December 04 2017 23:58 MymSlorm wrote: everything was good, except commentary during games because they were more about like telling jokes to each other, than actually caring about the games being played, i watched JimRising's stream instead during the games. what i really liked were the interviews, and the silly games between each series
The odds of us having a big BW tourney without casters like Artosis/Day9/iNcontroL/Tasteless is very unlikely. Organizers won't invest money into a game if there's no big draw (unless Blizzard steps in and starts pumping money into the scene).
As entertaining as the casters were, I don't think we're going to keep getting BW events if we can only average a few thousand viewers throughout the entire tournament :/
The launch event did extremely well in terms of viewership and there was probably a lot of hope that this tournament could reach those numbers but unfortunately that did not happen.
Was this tournament even advertised by Blizzard or anywhere other than TL? I think it did as well as could be expected given how it was marketed.
On December 04 2017 23:58 MymSlorm wrote: everything was good, except commentary during games because they were more about like telling jokes to each other, than actually caring about the games being played, i watched JimRising's stream instead during the games. what i really liked were the interviews, and the silly games between each series
The odds of us having a big BW tourney without casters like Artosis/Day9/iNcontroL/Tasteless is very unlikely. Organizers won't invest money into a game if there's no big draw (unless Blizzard steps in and starts pumping money into the scene).
As entertaining as the casters were, I don't think we're going to keep getting BW events if we can only average a few thousand viewers throughout the entire tournament :/
The launch event did extremely well in terms of viewership and there was probably a lot of hope that this tournament could reach those numbers but unfortunately that did not happen.
Was this tournament even advertised by Blizzard or anywhere other than TL? I think it did as well as could be expected given how it was marketed.
On December 04 2017 23:58 MymSlorm wrote: everything was good, except commentary during games because they were more about like telling jokes to each other, than actually caring about the games being played, i watched JimRising's stream instead during the games. what i really liked were the interviews, and the silly games between each series
The odds of us having a big BW tourney without casters like Artosis/Day9/iNcontroL/Tasteless is very unlikely. Organizers won't invest money into a game if there's no big draw (unless Blizzard steps in and starts pumping money into the scene).
As entertaining as the casters were, I don't think we're going to keep getting BW events if we can only average a few thousand viewers throughout the entire tournament :/
The launch event did extremely well in terms of viewership and there was probably a lot of hope that this tournament could reach those numbers but unfortunately that did not happen.
They're lucky to have had thousands of viewers throughout the entire tournament to be honest. From the way they advertised this event, to not knowing who is participating or getting substituted, the white noise issues, the player hotkey issues, the way it took over an hour to start on day 1, the stream dying numerous times, etc.
I think that if this event and the subsequent drama has proved anything it's that a lot of the BW community really doesn't want the game to grow or become an entertaining esport. They just want to live in a little self-contained bubble w/ the same people they've been interacting with for decades. Anything outside that comfort zone is foreign and scary and must be squashed immediately!
On December 04 2017 23:58 MymSlorm wrote: everything was good, except commentary during games because they were more about like telling jokes to each other, than actually caring about the games being played, i watched JimRising's stream instead during the games. what i really liked were the interviews, and the silly games between each series
The odds of us having a big BW tourney without casters like Artosis/Day9/iNcontroL/Tasteless is very unlikely. Organizers won't invest money into a game if there's no big draw (unless Blizzard steps in and starts pumping money into the scene).
As entertaining as the casters were, I don't think we're going to keep getting BW events if we can only average a few thousand viewers throughout the entire tournament :/
The launch event did extremely well in terms of viewership and there was probably a lot of hope that this tournament could reach those numbers but unfortunately that did not happen.
Was this tournament even advertised by Blizzard or anywhere other than TL? I think it did as well as could be expected given how it was marketed.
I hope it was advertised places other than TL, as the TL Zotac thread had no updates, announcements or player substitutions. We had to hear who was getting substituted from random people in the thread.
On December 05 2017 02:46 AManHasNoName wrote: I think that if this event and the subsequent drama has proved anything it's that a lot of the BW community really doesn't want the game to grow or become an entertaining esport. They just want to live in a little self-contained bubble w/ the same people they've been interacting with for decades. Anything outside that comfort zone is foreign and scary and must be squashed immediately!
keep your simple resentments for yourself please and outside this forum if you don't enjoy the people who post here?
On December 05 2017 02:46 AManHasNoName wrote: I think that if this event and the subsequent drama has proved anything it's that a lot of the BW community really doesn't want the game to grow or become an entertaining esport. They just want to live in a little self-contained bubble w/ the same people they've been interacting with for decades. Anything outside that comfort zone is foreign and scary and must be squashed immediately!
keep your simple resentments for yourself please and outside this forum if you don't enjoy the people who post here?
I want it to be known here, because I love the game and I want to see it grow. But, the closed minded attitudes of many in this community and the unwillingness to adapt to the current esports world is preventing the game from growing. Things need to change if BW is going to grow to what it once was as an esport, and for the foreign scene that change needs to start here on TL.
On December 05 2017 01:01 iNcontroL wrote: I was looking at your words and how you type and if you look closely it's like an idiot trying to find drama / meaning in something when it's explained by that person that they weren't mad ...
really, calling people idiots? He's not trying to convince you that you were mad, he's explaining why he thought you were mad.
The skill gap is so large between Korea and the rest of the world that if you want competitive and close games you shouldn't put Koreans vs. Foreigners. This has been demonstrated many times throughout brood war history. Winning against Koreans is so rare that when a foreigner does win against a Korean in tournament the feat makes history and often becomes the crowning achievement of the foreign player.
I was under the impression that this is well understood and that Zotac invited a Korean for the purpose of creating entertaining, but not necessarily competitive matches.
I was wrong, the Zotac guys seemed really convinced before and after the tournament that the games were close and that there is only a small difference in skill between Larva/Korea and everyone else. Combine this with the naming convention of "Showmatch Event" which implies that the primary purpose was entertainment and we get what happened.
(Edit for clarification: This paragraph was just my explanation on how various factors could have contributed to the miscommunication leading up to the Grand Finals. I don't think the first sentence is applicable and after talking more with Zotac I think they knew about the skill difference.)
Larva, myself and other players were under the impression that the invite showmatch was primarily for entertainment. Larva especially had difficulty talking with much of the staff and players at Zotac due to the language barrier. And as shown on the stream the translator had a tendency to translate what was said more nicely and made it milder. Given all of this I'm not surprised that Larva thinks he asked for permission and was okay to mess around and Zotac thinks he didn't.
Larva did his best to show exactly what he thought he was supposed to show at the event. The tournament had ambiguous expectations and it's reasonable to think that a showmatch will or should have showmanship, which is Larva's specialty.
My other thoughts are that outside of games Larva is one of the nicest and most helpful people I've met. Even with a huge language barrier he was happy to try and help me out with my game and even practice with me. I never once saw him say or do anything rude outside of the games and was always very respectful to everyone.
Last tidbit and brag I beat Larva's Terran in a practice game and I just don't know why I play my heart out in practice against Larva then play so sloppily when it actually matters.
Never seen you play before, Hawk, but was super impressed with your ZvT, some top level plays, gg indeed.. Should've won that game on CB against KawaiiRice.
On December 05 2017 04:35 Hawk2 wrote: Larva did nothing wrong.
The skill gap is so large between Korea and the rest of the world that if you want competitive and close games you shouldn't put Koreans vs. Foreigners. This has been demonstrated many times throughout brood war history. Winning against Koreans is so rare that when a foreigner does win against a Korean in tournament the feat makes history and often becomes the crowning achievement of the foreign player.
I was under the impression that this is well understood and that Zotac invited a Korean for the purpose of creating entertaining, but not necessarily competitive matches.
I was wrong, the Zotac guys seemed really convinced before and after the tournament that the games were close and that there is only a small difference in skill between Larva/Korea and everyone else. Combine this with the naming convention of "Showmatch Event" which implies that the primary purpose was entertainment and we get what happened.
Larva, myself and other players were under the impression that the invite showmatch was primarily for entertainment. Larva especially had difficulty talking with much of the staff and players at Zotac due to the language barrier. And as shown on the stream the translator had a tendency to translate what was said more nicely and made it milder. Given all of this I'm not surprised that Larva thinks he asked for permission and was okay to mess around and Zotac thinks he didn't.
Larva did his best to show exactly what he thought he was supposed to show at the event. The tournament had ambiguous expectations and it's reasonable to think that a showmatch will or should have showmanship, which is Larva's specialty.
My other thoughts are that outside of games Larva is one of the nicest and most helpful people I've met. Even with a huge language barrier he was happy to try and help me out with my game and even practice with me. I never once saw him say or do anything rude outside of the games and was always very respectful to everyone.
Last tidbit and brag I beat Larva's Terran in a practice game and I just don't know why I play my heart out in practice against Larva then play so sloppily when it actually matters.
Thanks for the insight. It’s great to hear from someone who was actually there and has more comprehensive knowledge of the situation. Also, great games! I know it’s tough to play on the big stage but I was still impressed by the quality of games you showed.
(Although, I was a bit sad when you just kept pumping ultras against kawaiirice and didn’t tech switch hehehe)
On December 04 2017 12:45 Peeano wrote: This cast is like watching Revenge of the Nerds, damn... Thank god for Day9 bringing some actual analytic commentary. I used to really like Tasteless when he first started casting BW at GomTV. Same with when Artosis was covering courage tournaments. Is it just me? Right now they hardly even know who Larva is. These guys used to have more background info than was available via TL, now they don't even bother to do their homework. They're ASL's main English casters... Ha...
I sincerely hope they stop riding so much on their former success. There are much better BW casters out there with way less experience, it's really sad to see.
When SCR first came out they couldn't stop talking about how amazing the "new" bio into mech transition was in TvZ despite it having been part of the meta's for years. So doesn't really surprise they don't bother doing any more research. People will hype them regardless of the effort they put in.
On December 04 2017 23:58 MymSlorm wrote: everything was good, except commentary during games because they were more about like telling jokes to each other, than actually caring about the games being played, i watched JimRising's stream instead during the games. what i really liked were the interviews, and the silly games between each series
The odds of us having a big BW tourney without casters like Artosis/Day9/iNcontroL/Tasteless is very unlikely. Organizers won't invest money into a game if there's no big draw (unless Blizzard steps in and starts pumping money into the scene).
As entertaining as the casters were, I don't think we're going to keep getting BW events if we can only average a few thousand viewers throughout the entire tournament :/
The launch event did extremely well in terms of viewership and there was probably a lot of hope that this tournament could reach those numbers but unfortunately that did not happen.
They're lucky to have had thousands of viewers throughout the entire tournament to be honest. From the way they advertised this event, to not knowing who is participating or getting substituted, the white noise issues, the player hotkey issues, the way it took over an hour to start on day 1, the stream dying numerous times, etc.
I think 10k viewers is a very attainable number for events with big name casters. The viewer count dipped because the stream kept discing and it was like 4am in EU. Of course this is only assuming the game keeps growing, it'll come down to how well Blizzard manages BW and the future patches.
I like how Legend calls Larva "mentally ill", that's more offensive than anything larva did tbh. Larva surely went a bit overboard with his bm i would agree with that. The problem i have is that zotac didn't do anything about it in the moment, it would have been easy to just pause the game and tell him to stop. No they apparently were fine with larva's action until all the offended people in the world went onto the internet and started crying. Instant reaction after that. That's really bad in my eyes, i don't want to see people operating that way :/
So yes Larva was disrespectful, i still enjoyed it though. People like to get mad and organisations actually act on this outrage. That's the actual horrible thing here.
larva is absolutely mentally ill. there are no doubts about it.
Lx thank you for participating in this very low mentally event. thank you for being the real man unlike others. you did the great job. congratulations!
very soon if SCR is on WCG 2018 no one from the Republic of Korea will be in top3 or atleast on the first place. this is for sure. they will answer for this action and for their low level in the game. i really hope WCG 2018 will really be, including SCR and Flash can qualify to be won as many others known as "progamers" cause they are "so strong" ...
On December 05 2017 07:29 robotninzya wrote: larva is absolutely mentally ill. there are no doubts about it.
Lx thank you for participating in this very low mentally event. thank you for being the real man unlike others. you did the great job. congratulations!
very soon if SCR is on WCG 2018 no one from the Republic of Korea will be in top3 or atleast on the first place. this is for sure. they will answer for this action and for their low level in the game. i really hope WCG 2018 will really be, including SCR and Flash can qualify to be won as many others known as "progamers" cause they are "so strong" ...
good luck to all of you
time will tell. it is waiting ...
Lol this is too funny. Imagine if larva BM actually does lead to huge Chinese broodwar investment to reclaim honor. Honestly that would be fucking awesome to see actual competition to Korea.
I understand why some of you are mad about Larva but why are you so mad about him playing with foot but not mad about him offracing or doing fast nuke. Isn't this the same ? (looking down on opponent)
On December 05 2017 09:55 KenZy wrote: I understand why some of you are mad about Larva but why are you so mad about him playing with foot but not mad about him offracing or doing fast nuke. Isn't this the same ? (looking down on opponent)
I don't think there is any concrete definition (what constitutes as an insult) but I guess it's the difference between in-game trolling VS real life trolling. Foreigners have been trolled forever since forever really, it is kind of accepted as a norm these days (especially in the post-KESPA era). What happens in the game stays in the game... What larva did was kind of like taking the insult from the game itself to a more personal level...
I want to come out and say my piece, I also met Larva and he was a nice guy he would actually come out looking for UltrA and talked to him and made a video for him to send to the SouL Gaming Zerg players. He was legitimately interested in making connections and friendships with the players he met at the event. He took the initiative to seek UltrA out to talk to him about his games and give him some small tips with his limited English and I agree if it was offensive it should have been stopped right then and there, not after the fact. Larva pretty much was culmination of the event the viewership has gone through the roof and Zotac has received way more exposure had larva not done what he did. Publicity is Publicity.
Nice event. Although I'm still sad that when Nyoken couldn't make it they didn't wait for me to get off of work before they decided to invite Jaeyun. I could have went, just wasn't able to reply to a PM at 8 am.
Larva just wants to be a showman and from his history we know he has quite the antics. Apparently he had asked too and even if it was lost in translation, its looking very probable that he wasn't doing it to humiliate his opponent but just to entertain.
However for lx, it must be soul crushing to be dominated that hard. I think given some time to think about it he won't be very angry at Lava, pretty sure it was just pure frustration since no one wants to get beaten in such a fashion. Happens when theres such a wide skill gap.
Pretty sure the first time a 6 foot 10 kid dunked on me I went from despair -> anger -> acceptance
People in general are too easily offended these days.
If you invite a top korean pro in a tournament where you also invite foreigners who haven't been playing in 7 or so years, what do you expect the games will look like?
Sure, Larva could have played straight up and completely stomped Lx that way too. Either way, no one in their right mind could have thought that this would be an exciting tournament (as far as who the winner will be).
If anything, the organizers are to blame. If you're looking for an exciting tournament, don't do invites and don't mix top korean pros with foreigners. You can't have it both ways.
I agree with Hawk's post:
On December 05 2017 04:35 Hawk2 wrote: Larva did nothing wrong.
The skill gap is so large between Korea and the rest of the world that if you want competitive and close games you shouldn't put Koreans vs. Foreigners. This has been demonstrated many times throughout brood war history. Winning against Koreans is so rare that when a foreigner does win against a Korean in tournament the feat makes history and often becomes the crowning achievement of the foreign player.
I was under the impression that this is well understood and that Zotac invited a Korean for the purpose of creating entertaining, but not necessarily competitive matches.
I was wrong, the Zotac guys seemed really convinced before and after the tournament that the games were close and that there is only a small difference in skill between Larva/Korea and everyone else. Combine this with the naming convention of "Showmatch Event" which implies that the primary purpose was entertainment and we get what happened.
Larva, myself and other players were under the impression that the invite showmatch was primarily for entertainment. Larva especially had difficulty talking with much of the staff and players at Zotac due to the language barrier. And as shown on the stream the translator had a tendency to translate what was said more nicely and made it milder. Given all of this I'm not surprised that Larva thinks he asked for permission and was okay to mess around and Zotac thinks he didn't.
Larva did his best to show exactly what he thought he was supposed to show at the event. The tournament had ambiguous expectations and it's reasonable to think that a showmatch will or should have showmanship, which is Larva's specialty.
I completely agree with Hawk, as that is first-hand perspective of what happened and most likely how the disparity was seen between both parties.
My thoughts on the event: It was awesome seeing all the participants play, and also Fujikara showing up to translate for Ultra. Ultra played way better than I anticipated. Hawk & Dragon played well, but I think they would agree that they didn't play as well as they could have played. Cool to see Jaeyun play at a LAN event! Loved the zvz build against Michael and mentioning in the post-series interview that it was Larva's build he used vs Hero. I'm kinda disappointed that neither Terror or Dandy got to play in this, since either of them would have been favored to win, imo. Who knows, it's possible that they could have taken a game or two off of Larva, if Draco could.
Production was pretty bad tbh. It was most definitely grueling for the casters to be live for 12 hours both days and with all the prep work. It really didn't need to be. Plus all the downtime/production issues... but I do hope that this wasn't the only big Zotac event we will see in SC:R. There needs to be more events like this one, especially as I'm sure the production kinks will be sorted out going forward.
Overall, it was a great event and was awesome to see some local ("foreign") players show their skills on the big screen!
if you dont train like the koreans do you wont see the results that the koreans do simple as that. There is a reason that they have always surpassed the foreigners. Also, from experience you can get games w/ koreans of high skill level if you are good yourself and become practice partners with them.
Heads up, I will not be able to comment on the Larva/Legend situation. It’s a pretty delicate situation and, at present, is completely out of my hands.
I just wanted to clear up any confusion, as well give my take, on some things that were mentioned by Hawk and Demurity.
The goal of the North American/ South American tournament, was to answer one basic question: Currently and arguably, who is the best player in the NA/SA region? The champion Michael “CheeseKing”, was able to answer this for us. Thank you and congratulations to Michael, you are an amazing Zerg player.
The “Invitational Show Match”, was introduced with the goal and intent to answer another specific question: “At present, how well would the winner of the NA/SA, and other “foreigners” fare against a top Korean Pro Gamer?” If entertainment was the primary goal and focus of this event, then I could have easily organized this event to have the casters play against each other for an entertaining “show” match; however, this was not the case, skill and competitiveness was definitely what this “show” match was aiming for when setting this portion up.
Now, I’ am a bit confused when you mention “ZOTAC guys”, besides talking to me, who else gave you the impression that “ … there is only a small difference in skill between Larva/Korea and everyone else…”? I don’t think anyone from my team, besides myself, would be able to knowledgably talk to you about StarCraft and can give you this impression. Now if it was me, which you mention as “ZOTAC guys”, then I guarantee you that I knew this well ahead of time, that Korean Pro Gamers are a cut above everyone else. Now I apologize, if the confusion stemmed from me attempting to reinforce other players by telling them “they can do it, they can beat larva, etc…” Would it have been better, if I told them they were going to lose? That they had no chance against Larva? I felt that encouraging all our players to do their best, regardless of their skill gap was the best course of action, as both a Esports manager and as a fellow gamer.
When I mentioned, that it was close, it was only referring to the matches Draco had vs Larva. Draco took 1 game from Larva on Troy and the 3rd match they played was actually pretty close. Was this not the case?
Again, I just wanted to clear up any confusion regarding what Hawk mentioned. It was my pleasure meeting everyone and seeing them compete at the event. Everyone did a great job and performed very well. I will be posting my personal thoughts and comments later, since I’ve got tons of things to handle post-event. Thanks for everything guys, in my 16 years of competitive gaming, I’ve never seen such a passionate and committed community as I have seen with the StarCraft Broodwars community. You guys are the best.
You clearly don't understand! It was a showmatch, which requires one player to juggle beer bottles while blindfolded and playing with his feet so that the audience be entertained and saved from a 3-0 snorefest at the hands of another faceless Korean /s Thanks for setting the whole thing up, it was a blast to watch!
On December 01 2017 17:19 FlaShFTW wrote: Jaeyun is taking the place of Nyoken. Jaeyun is a UCSD graduate who carried his team to a CSL win in 2009 and a runner up in 2010. GO JAEYUN!
Were you one of the tournament organizers or in charge of updates?
On December 01 2017 17:19 FlaShFTW wrote: Jaeyun is taking the place of Nyoken. Jaeyun is a UCSD graduate who carried his team to a CSL win in 2009 and a runner up in 2010. GO JAEYUN!
Were you one of the tournament organizers or in charge of updates?
No. I am jaeyuns irl friend and he posted this stuff in our ucsd starcraft fb group
On December 01 2017 17:19 FlaShFTW wrote: Jaeyun is taking the place of Nyoken. Jaeyun is a UCSD graduate who carried his team to a CSL win in 2009 and a runner up in 2010. GO JAEYUN!
Were you one of the tournament organizers or in charge of updates?
No. I am jaeyuns irl friend and he posted this stuff in our ucsd starcraft fb group
Why am I not surprised that this is the same Jaeyun that beat me at a UCSD tourney in 2010 . Saw his name in the entries and just knew I wasn't good enough hah.
On December 06 2017 07:53 wussleeQ wrote: Why am I not surprised that this is the same Jaeyun that beat me at a UCSD tourney in 2010 . Saw his name in the entries and just knew I wasn't good enough hah.
He's a baller man! Carried UCSD to a CSL win and runner up.
On December 06 2017 16:48 jinjin5000 wrote: If people are wondering why Chinese people seem so mad, is give this vid a watch for some background knowledge
On December 06 2017 16:48 jinjin5000 wrote: If people are wondering why Chinese people seem so mad, is give this vid a watch for some background knowledge
What was the reasoning in not inviting alot of modern foreign players like Bonyth, Trutacz, Nemu, etc? I bet Bonyth might have done just as well as Draco. I think the organizers were a little self-important to completely ignore the players that kept Broodwar alive during SC2.
On December 07 2017 02:27 Alpha-NP- wrote: What was the reasoning in not inviting alot of modern foreign players like Bonyth, Trutacz, Nemu, etc? I bet Bonyth might have done just as well as Draco. I think the organizers were a little self-important to completely ignore the players that kept Broodwar alive during SC2.
I truly believe Bonyth has the highest chance of beating Larva in a series. If Draco could take one game, Bonyth could 2-1
On December 07 2017 02:27 Alpha-NP- wrote: What was the reasoning in not inviting alot of modern foreign players like Bonyth, Trutacz, Nemu, etc? I bet Bonyth might have done just as well as Draco. I think the organizers were a little self-important to completely ignore the players that kept Broodwar alive during SC2.
I truly believe Bonyth has the highest chance of beating Larva in a series. If Draco could take one game, Bonyth could 2-1
Draco cheesing 1 game doesn't mean Bonyth has a legitimate shot at beating Larva. Look what happened to Legend, the player who knocked Draco out of the tournament.
On December 07 2017 02:27 Alpha-NP- wrote: What was the reasoning in not inviting alot of modern foreign players like Bonyth, Trutacz, Nemu, etc? I bet Bonyth might have done just as well as Draco. I think the organizers were a little self-important to completely ignore the players that kept Broodwar alive during SC2.
I truly believe Bonyth has the highest chance of beating Larva in a series. If Draco could take one game, Bonyth could 2-1
On December 07 2017 02:27 Alpha-NP- wrote: What was the reasoning in not inviting alot of modern foreign players like Bonyth, Trutacz, Nemu, etc? I bet Bonyth might have done just as well as Draco. I think the organizers were a little self-important to completely ignore the players that kept Broodwar alive during SC2.
I truly believe Bonyth has the highest chance of beating Larva in a series. If Draco could take one game, Bonyth could 2-1
Draco almost won 2-1. The 2 stargate sair game was looking great until a few bad decisions caused him to lose all his templar later on in the game. I think Bonyth is currently better than Draco, but I don't think Bonyth's aggressive style would do too well against Larva.
Draco has the best mentality for beating koreans because he prepares one game only allin-builds. I agree that Bonyth (and a good 10 other europeans) are currently better than Draco, but my impression is that mostly all of these guys would try to play kinda straight up. That'd yield worse results.
Also my impression that pro zergs are the hardest for nonkoreans to beat because zerg is the most cheese-proof race.
On December 07 2017 02:27 Alpha-NP- wrote: What was the reasoning in not inviting alot of modern foreign players like Bonyth, Trutacz, Nemu, etc? I bet Bonyth might have done just as well as Draco. I think the organizers were a little self-important to completely ignore the players that kept Broodwar alive during SC2.
I truly believe Bonyth has the highest chance of beating Larva in a series. If Draco could take one game, Bonyth could 2-1
Draco almost won 2-1. The 2 stargate sair game was looking great until a few bad decisions caused him to lose all his templar later on in the game. I think Bonyth is currently better than Draco, but I don't think Bonyth's aggressive style would do too well against Larva.
The problem is, those few bad decisions will happen every game and they will happen at a higher frequency than Larva. As Liquid'Drone said above, Draco has the best approach which is why he's been winning. If Draco tried to play straight up against FBH and Larva, there's a good chance he would be 0-5... Instead he's like 3-5, with 3 wins all being all-in cheeses. The longer the game goes, the higher chance he will make more mistakes than his opponent (You also have to consider the surprise factor, Larva thought he could play around in game 1 vs Draco and he got cheesed and destroyed. It didn't happen a second time).
Foreigner Protosses who prepare 1 game cheeses will probably have more success than the other races to be honest. It's very hard to cheese with Zerg against a superior opponent, since ZvP is really the only match up you can and it's relatively easy for a player of that caliber to keep their probe alive for scouting.
I don't think it's possible for any of the foreigner Terrans to even put up a fight to be honest.
I agree, the approach Draco is taking is yielding him better results than most would have against ex-pros. Not to mention he's pretty damn good and is used to playing against pros regularly. While Draco would learn from his mistakes, Larva would likely not make any game changing mistakes vs foreigners. I'm not so sure that Larva was messing around in game 1 though. Draco did a 1 base build and Larva said himself that he thought it was only 2 gates total. Larva seemed to go for a timing bust on the natural, thinking Draco would expand and get high templar, but ran into 4 gate speed zealots.
On December 07 2017 02:27 Alpha-NP- wrote: What was the reasoning in not inviting alot of modern foreign players like Bonyth, Trutacz, Nemu, etc? I bet Bonyth might have done just as well as Draco. I think the organizers were a little self-important to completely ignore the players that kept Broodwar alive during SC2.
I truly believe Bonyth has the highest chance of beating Larva in a series. If Draco could take one game, Bonyth could 2-1
Draco almost won 2-1. The 2 stargate sair game was looking great until a few bad decisions caused him to lose all his templar later on in the game. I think Bonyth is currently better than Draco, but I don't think Bonyth's aggressive style would do too well against Larva.
I think what happened here was: lava was still taking the game lightly in the beginning, even despite being down 1-0 and decided to play very serious after the opening went very bad for him with the two Stargate opening.
On December 07 2017 02:27 Alpha-NP- wrote: What was the reasoning in not inviting alot of modern foreign players like Bonyth, Trutacz, Nemu, etc? I bet Bonyth might have done just as well as Draco. I think the organizers were a little self-important to completely ignore the players that kept Broodwar alive during SC2.
I truly believe Bonyth has the highest chance of beating Larva in a series. If Draco could take one game, Bonyth could 2-1
Draco almost won 2-1. The 2 stargate sair game was looking great until a few bad decisions caused him to lose all his templar later on in the game. I think Bonyth is currently better than Draco, but I don't think Bonyth's aggressive style would do too well against Larva.
I think what happened here was: lava was still taking the game lightly in the beginning, even despite being down 1-0 and decided to play very serious after the opening went very bad for him with the two Stargate opening.
That's definitely possible. I'd have to re-watch the games to try to figure that one out.
Man you guys jumped on the hatewagon quickly. To clarify, I was not implying the logic of: Draco 1-2 Larva, and Bonyth > Draco, therefore Bonyth would 2-1 Larva.
Considering all foreigners, I believe Bonyth is definitively in the top 3, or even reduce it to top 5 for the sake of argument. Given this, and the fact that there are few foreigners who have ever beaten, hell, even played against pro players, then this is a completely valid opinion. Bonyth actually has beaten very good players. It doesn't make me delusional lol. Now, on the flipside, Larva is definitely one of the best players currently. I believe at that high level, there is a sliver of chance that Bonyth could win in a BO3, with a greater chance of success than all other foreigners.
On December 06 2017 16:48 jinjin5000 wrote: If people are wondering why Chinese people seem so mad, is give this vid a watch for some background knowledge
On December 07 2017 08:09 Demurity wrote: Man you guys jumped on the hatewagon quickly. To clarify, I was not implying the logic of: Draco 1-2 Larva, and Bonyth > Draco, therefore Bonyth would 2-1 Larva.
Considering all foreigners, I believe Bonyth is definitively in the top 3, or even reduce it to top 5 for the sake of argument. Given this, and the fact that there are few foreigners who have ever beaten, hell, even played against pro players, then this is a completely valid opinion. Bonyth actually has beaten very good players. It doesn't make me delusional lol. Now, on the flipside, Larva is definitely one of the best players currently. I believe at that high level, there is a sliver of chance that Bonyth could win in a BO3, with a greater chance of success than all other foreigners.
I mean, Larva has the best ZvP in the world and Bonyth was eliminated from the last major tour he participated in, going 0-4 in PvZ or something like that.
On December 07 2017 08:09 Demurity wrote: Man you guys jumped on the hatewagon quickly. To clarify, I was not implying the logic of: Draco 1-2 Larva, and Bonyth > Draco, therefore Bonyth would 2-1 Larva.
Considering all foreigners, I believe Bonyth is definitively in the top 3, or even reduce it to top 5 for the sake of argument. Given this, and the fact that there are few foreigners who have ever beaten, hell, even played against pro players, then this is a completely valid opinion. Bonyth actually has beaten very good players. It doesn't make me delusional lol. Now, on the flipside, Larva is definitely one of the best players currently. I believe at that high level, there is a sliver of chance that Bonyth could win in a BO3, with a greater chance of success than all other foreigners.
I mean, Larva has the best ZvP in the world and Bonyth was eliminated from the last major tour he participated in, going 0-4 in PvZ or something like that.
Look, put it this way: Bonyth has beaten several legit top 20 pros. A bum sc player has no chance of beating them. Even showing historically that Bonyth has done it is sufficient to say he has a greater chance of winning than 99.9% of other foreigners.
Alternatively, can you list players who you believe has a better chance of Bonyth? Possibly other high level foreigners like Sziky, Trutacz, Eonzerg, Ret? I do not believe it is out of the question to think that any of these active players have a decent shot of winning a game against Larva. I just do not like the notion of, "Draco beat Larva once, man, I don't think another foreigner would have done any better than he did".
On December 07 2017 08:09 Demurity wrote: Man you guys jumped on the hatewagon quickly. To clarify, I was not implying the logic of: Draco 1-2 Larva, and Bonyth > Draco, therefore Bonyth would 2-1 Larva.
Considering all foreigners, I believe Bonyth is definitively in the top 3, or even reduce it to top 5 for the sake of argument. Given this, and the fact that there are few foreigners who have ever beaten, hell, even played against pro players, then this is a completely valid opinion. Bonyth actually has beaten very good players. It doesn't make me delusional lol. Now, on the flipside, Larva is definitely one of the best players currently. I believe at that high level, there is a sliver of chance that Bonyth could win in a BO3, with a greater chance of success than all other foreigners.
I mean, Larva has the best ZvP in the world and Bonyth was eliminated from the last major tour he participated in, going 0-4 in PvZ or something like that.
Look, put it this way: Bonyth has beaten several legit top 20 pros. A bum sc player has no chance of beating them. Even showing historically that Bonyth has done it is sufficient to say he has a greater chance of winning than 99.9% of other foreigners.
Alternatively, can you list players who you believe has a better chance of Bonyth? Possibly other high level foreigners like Sziky, Trutacz, Eonzerg, Ret? I do not believe it is out of the question to think that any of these active players have a decent shot of winning a game against Larva. I just do not like the notion of, "Draco beat Larva once, man, I don't think another foreigner would have done any better than he did".
I enjoyed watching the event, the games were pretty good overall. Also, can anyone confirm if the total prize pool for both the tournament and the showmatch is 35k USD overall? According to the distribution in liquipedia it seems to be that way. It became even bigger than what we expected in the beginning, especially given the casters that were there and the organisation staff.
On December 07 2017 10:43 Alpha-NP- wrote: Maybe I need to sponsor a showmatch of Sziky against Draco? Sayle message me if you are interested.
Who's putting up the prize money for this?
With no preparation, I would give the edge to Sziky. With preparation, probably Draco since he cares more about planning individual matches than anyone I've seen.
On December 07 2017 08:09 Demurity wrote: Man you guys jumped on the hatewagon quickly. To clarify, I was not implying the logic of: Draco 1-2 Larva, and Bonyth > Draco, therefore Bonyth would 2-1 Larva.
Considering all foreigners, I believe Bonyth is definitively in the top 3, or even reduce it to top 5 for the sake of argument. Given this, and the fact that there are few foreigners who have ever beaten, hell, even played against pro players, then this is a completely valid opinion. Bonyth actually has beaten very good players. It doesn't make me delusional lol. Now, on the flipside, Larva is definitely one of the best players currently. I believe at that high level, there is a sliver of chance that Bonyth could win in a BO3, with a greater chance of success than all other foreigners.
I mean, Larva has the best ZvP in the world and Bonyth was eliminated from the last major tour he participated in, going 0-4 in PvZ or something like that.
Look, put it this way: Bonyth has beaten several legit top 20 pros. A bum sc player has no chance of beating them. Even showing historically that Bonyth has done it is sufficient to say he has a greater chance of winning than 99.9% of other foreigners.
Alternatively, can you list players who you believe has a better chance of Bonyth? Possibly other high level foreigners like Sziky, Trutacz, Eonzerg, Ret? I do not believe it is out of the question to think that any of these active players have a decent shot of winning a game against Larva. I just do not like the notion of, "Draco beat Larva once, man, I don't think another foreigner would have done any better than he did".
On December 07 2017 08:09 Demurity wrote: Man you guys jumped on the hatewagon quickly. To clarify, I was not implying the logic of: Draco 1-2 Larva, and Bonyth > Draco, therefore Bonyth would 2-1 Larva.
Considering all foreigners, I believe Bonyth is definitively in the top 3, or even reduce it to top 5 for the sake of argument. Given this, and the fact that there are few foreigners who have ever beaten, hell, even played against pro players, then this is a completely valid opinion. Bonyth actually has beaten very good players. It doesn't make me delusional lol. Now, on the flipside, Larva is definitely one of the best players currently. I believe at that high level, there is a sliver of chance that Bonyth could win in a BO3, with a greater chance of success than all other foreigners.
I mean, Larva has the best ZvP in the world and Bonyth was eliminated from the last major tour he participated in, going 0-4 in PvZ or something like that.
Look, put it this way: Bonyth has beaten several legit top 20 pros. A bum sc player has no chance of beating them. Even showing historically that Bonyth has done it is sufficient to say he has a greater chance of winning than 99.9% of other foreigners.
Alternatively, can you list players who you believe has a better chance of Bonyth? Possibly other high level foreigners like Sziky, Trutacz, Eonzerg, Ret? I do not believe it is out of the question to think that any of these active players have a decent shot of winning a game against Larva. I just do not like the notion of, "Draco beat Larva once, man, I don't think another foreigner would have done any better than he did".
I just came here to admit that I'm pretty impressed of what Larva did in game vs Lx.
I've missed the whole tournament and just re-watched the part of 'Larva scandal' and I have no idea why people make big deal about it? That was funny, come on, if you don't agree, you're all simply lying :D
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/J13Rmjg.jpg)
. As the Esports guy for ZOTAC, I just felt that it was only right to bring back StarCraft to the community on ZOTAC CUP. We have a long standing history with StarCraft and it's community, not to mention, personally, I grew up on this game.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/b7qqcNB.png)
?haha
![[image loading]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/VLiYqMwKpK8/maxresdefault.jpg)
thanks guys...
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/giQdxah.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/RAGtkmX.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/nRjsfNT.png)
![[image loading]](http://defiler.ru/i/g/larva.gif)
