• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:37
CEST 22:37
KST 05:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo16Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4
StarCraft 2
General
Yamato Cup Series Is the larve respawn broken? What kind of tool would you be interested in? StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
GSL CK #4 20-21th June Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ STARCRAFT MOVIE - Last Night at the Command center BW General Discussion Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7358 users

[ASL2] Semifinals: Sea vs BeSt - Page 27

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 Next All
RoomOfMush
Profile Joined March 2015
1296 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-15 21:25:28
January 15 2017 21:24 GMT
#521
People here really aint fair towards Sea, I think he played great. There is more to game 4 than Best screwing up. If Sea doesnt realize it and capitalizes on Bests mistakes the game would still go to Best. But Sea was very quick in that game. No indecisiveness, no confusion, just straight forward good decision making.
Best sacrificed almost all of his ground units without killing many units of Sea and Sea abused that and went straight for the natural. At this point Best couldnt even rebuild the ground army because Sea was already at the gates of the main. Best didnt have enough gateways on the other side of the map yet.
People here are trying to make it sound like anybody could have won that game 4.
Dental Floss
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1015 Posts
January 15 2017 21:28 GMT
#522
On January 16 2017 06:24 RoomOfMush wrote:
People here really aint fair towards Sea, I think he played great. There is more to game 4 than Best screwing up. If Sea doesnt realize it and capitalizes on Bests mistakes the game would still go to Best. But Sea was very quick in that game. No indecisiveness, no confusion, just straight forward good decision making.
Best sacrificed almost all of his ground units without killing many units of Sea and Sea abused that and went straight for the natural. At this point Best couldnt even rebuild the ground army because Sea was already at the gates of the main. Best didnt have enough gateways on the other side of the map yet.
People here are trying to make it sound like anybody could have won that game 4.



Also, people look at Sea's control and critique it, which is fine, but realize too that he is all over the map with 2-3 groups of vultures which is what makes them hard to control. In game 4 he managed to kill 15+ probes by midgame which is how he turned things around. Best really couldn't seem to lock down the map in the way he wanted until it was too late.
Kim Tae Gyun.... never forget Perfectman RIP
TheNewEra
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany3128 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-15 21:47:12
January 15 2017 21:46 GMT
#523
On January 16 2017 06:13 Dental Floss wrote:
People are really under estimating Sea, he was a total beast in proleague and towards the end he was quickly becoming one of the best terrans on the scene. There are players that made the decision to focus on PL at the expense of individual leagues and people often overlook them. It was a long time ago but remember that the individual league stars often slumped in PL when they had to sacrifice their prep time to prepare their individual games.


Everyone knows about Sea's accomplishments in Teamleagues here. People also know that he was really strong in the amateur scene. But what people also know is that according to the other pros and even korean TL members, contributing on this site, Sea was barely practicing at all for ASL and focused on establishing his stream. And you can see it in his controls and macro.

Mind you: I'm still angry at BeSt and Bisu for donating wins to Sea but if BeSt was in the finale against Flash we could see some macro games. Now it's basically: Finish in under 10 mins or Flash wins.
Midas <3 Casy <3 BeSt <3 | Pray to Doh-men, heathens! | Zwischen Harz und Heideland
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
January 15 2017 22:27 GMT
#524
From a Korean Point of View, was cheesing in the 5th game bad manner? Or totally fine and a move of strategic genius?
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8674 Posts
January 15 2017 22:29 GMT
#525
On January 16 2017 07:27 FusionCutter wrote:
From a Korean Point of View, was cheesing in the 5th game bad manner? Or totally fine and a move of strategic genius?


How is that bad manner? Wtf? I'm not a fan of cheese but this is ridiculous.
TheNewEra
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany3128 Posts
January 15 2017 22:42 GMT
#526
On January 16 2017 07:27 FusionCutter wrote:
From a Korean Point of View, was cheesing in the 5th game bad manner? Or totally fine and a move of strategic genius?

Maybe it's bad mannered if you just play a fun series but in an actual tournament? I don't think anyone thinks it was bad mannered
Midas <3 Casy <3 BeSt <3 | Pray to Doh-men, heathens! | Zwischen Harz und Heideland
iSometric
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
2221 Posts
January 15 2017 22:57 GMT
#527
Awesome set. WOOOO! I knew he was going to cheese the heck out of game 5 but BBS? Great win by a great player.
strava.com/athletes/zhaodynasty
Vuk_91
Profile Joined September 2010
Serbia1690 Posts
January 15 2017 23:23 GMT
#528
I honestly believe that BBS vs Protoss is the toughest build to face in Brood War. It's much easier to beat it with Zerg, and that's also very hard!
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-16 00:11:13
January 16 2017 00:08 GMT
#529
On January 16 2017 08:23 Vuk_91 wrote:
I honestly believe that BBS vs Protoss is the toughest build to face in Brood War. It's much easier to beat it with Zerg, and that's also very hard!

It feels like people really are underestimating just how much of a "ballsy and could've really backfired" move this was by Sea. This is Jaedong level imo.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
jamesuh
Profile Joined January 2011
United States82 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-16 00:09:41
January 16 2017 00:09 GMT
#530
+ Show Spoiler +
When an EMP'd arbiter still gets a recall... [image loading]
Terrorbladder
Profile Joined May 2014
2750 Posts
January 16 2017 00:51 GMT
#531
On January 16 2017 03:43 Me_ToKa wrote:
This is how I imagine Sea leaving the studio:
+ Show Spoiler +
Starts at 1:39


Sorry I don't have .gif

What is this video about?
My dream is to fertilize two females at a time.
LittLeLives
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States692 Posts
January 16 2017 01:38 GMT
#532
On January 16 2017 05:31 usopsama wrote:
Here is the VOD with the first-person views.

http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/17300413

Thanks.
It turns out that Sea did scan the Carriers (14:24 game time) and immediately macro'd up Goliaths just moments before BeSt recalled onto the other side of the main. BeSt sees the Goliaths coming out (15:27) and, with his fleet already half-way to his fifth decides to intercept the tanks going to his main. He never caught scent of the Goliaths Sea got from earlier so he starts producing more Carriers between those times. Getting his fleet caught out and losing 2 ships at 16:49 was really bad, though I don't know how much it would have changed things.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10483 Posts
January 16 2017 02:30 GMT
#533
On January 16 2017 03:38 BlackJack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2017 21:44 FlaShFTW wrote:
On January 15 2017 21:42 Broodwar4lyf wrote:
Can we please go back how terrible BEST played game 1 4 and 5? lol

yeah game 1 was a misplay with failing to block the choke and letting vultures end him.

game 4 was just... ugh. he should have won that game so easily, how do you lose 5 base vs 3 base as protoss on demian? oh, by going carriers, losing your entire ground army to a recall and not even remacroing it, then not doing anything with those carriers.

game 5 was just the bbs. it wasnt him playing bad, it was just bad luck he chose that build and lacked scouting.


not scouting and not building any zealots/dragoons until your opponent has an army in your base is pretty bad. A bit more than just bad luck.

Read the part where i say it was the build choice. There are plenty of people here who are saying you cut a goon to get the second gateway and range. To add insult to injury, he tried to proxy as well which made it even worse. Thats not being bad, its having a BO loss while even going greedy with the proxy and not scouting. Bad would be the carrier control in game 4
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
vndestiny
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Singapore3457 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-16 03:09:43
January 16 2017 02:38 GMT
#534
On January 16 2017 10:38 LittLeLives wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2017 05:31 usopsama wrote:
Here is the VOD with the first-person views.

http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/17300413

Thanks.
It turns out that Sea did scan the Carriers (14:24 game time) and immediately macro'd up Goliaths just moments before BeSt recalled onto the other side of the main. BeSt sees the Goliaths coming out (15:27) and, with his fleet already half-way to his fifth decides to intercept the tanks going to his main. He never caught scent of the Goliaths Sea got from earlier so he starts producing more Carriers between those times. Getting his fleet caught out and losing 2 ships at 16:49 was really bad, though I don't know how much it would have changed things.


How did you watch FPVOD of game 4 ? The video linked cut off at the 60 minute mark after game 3 for me :/ ( on mobile).
Edit: nvm apparently the non-mobile version is full duration, interesting.
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42411 Posts
January 16 2017 03:21 GMT
#535
Holy shit sea!!!

Op needs spoilers updated
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
January 16 2017 04:00 GMT
#536
On January 16 2017 12:21 Grettin wrote:
Holy shit sea!!!

Op needs spoilers updated

done.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Dental Floss
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1015 Posts
January 16 2017 04:30 GMT
#537
On January 16 2017 06:46 TheNewEra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2017 06:13 Dental Floss wrote:
People are really under estimating Sea, he was a total beast in proleague and towards the end he was quickly becoming one of the best terrans on the scene. There are players that made the decision to focus on PL at the expense of individual leagues and people often overlook them. It was a long time ago but remember that the individual league stars often slumped in PL when they had to sacrifice their prep time to prepare their individual games.


Everyone knows about Sea's accomplishments in Teamleagues here. People also know that he was really strong in the amateur scene. But what people also know is that according to the other pros and even korean TL members, contributing on this site, Sea was barely practicing at all for ASL and focused on establishing his stream. And you can see it in his controls and macro.

Mind you: I'm still angry at BeSt and Bisu for donating wins to Sea but if BeSt was in the finale against Flash we could see some macro games. Now it's basically: Finish in under 10 mins or Flash wins.


lol though at assuming flash is a auto win against jd.
Kim Tae Gyun.... never forget Perfectman RIP
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
January 16 2017 04:38 GMT
#538
On January 16 2017 11:30 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2017 03:38 BlackJack wrote:
On January 15 2017 21:44 FlaShFTW wrote:
On January 15 2017 21:42 Broodwar4lyf wrote:
Can we please go back how terrible BEST played game 1 4 and 5? lol

yeah game 1 was a misplay with failing to block the choke and letting vultures end him.

game 4 was just... ugh. he should have won that game so easily, how do you lose 5 base vs 3 base as protoss on demian? oh, by going carriers, losing your entire ground army to a recall and not even remacroing it, then not doing anything with those carriers.

game 5 was just the bbs. it wasnt him playing bad, it was just bad luck he chose that build and lacked scouting.


not scouting and not building any zealots/dragoons until your opponent has an army in your base is pretty bad. A bit more than just bad luck.

Read the part where i say it was the build choice. There are plenty of people here who are saying you cut a goon to get the second gateway and range. To add insult to injury, he tried to proxy as well which made it even worse. Thats not being bad, its having a BO loss while even going greedy with the proxy and not scouting. Bad would be the carrier control in game 4


What was BeSt's game-plan in G5? Seems rather unconventional, going double gateway, skipping zeal for dragoon upgrade, and rushing for some quick tech. What was his build hoping to counter, and weak against? Was his build as risky as Sea's BBS?
gg no re thx
usopsama
Profile Joined April 2008
6502 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-16 15:38:44
January 16 2017 04:41 GMT
#539
tedster
Profile Joined May 2009
984 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-16 06:04:11
January 16 2017 06:02 GMT
#540
All the people scared of a stomp in the finals: Sea trained with Flash for this tournament. He's probably got less of a chance of getting stomped than anyone else.

Best has great TvP but there's no way whatsoever with play like he showed today he could beat Flash. There's just not that kind of room for error with recalls for example - Flash doesn't leave dead zones where there are no mines for someone to blind recall into. Likewise some of the brain farts that Best had throughout the various games (even the ones he won) will typically sink you immediately vs his TvP. You can't beat Flash just by having great mechanics and Best, while showing off some really good mind games vs. Sea, also showed some lapses in judgment and timing that are super exploitable by God.

Looking at the games with Guemchi, outside of G1 and failing to research Recall G-chizzle didn't really make any mental mistakes and had excellent timing with his engages. His recalls still did nothing and he obviously doesn't have quite the macro of Best but he made much, much better choices - and still got 3-1ed pretty cleanly, despite putting up a hell of a fight.

TvT is a little less punishing for individual judgment errors due to the scope and speed of armies so while an unpolished player like Sea is probably completely boned in a Bo5 I would expect there to be a lot more back and forth in the individual games.

edit: Holy moley i forgot how salty SKT protoss fans get after a loss
the last wcs commissioner
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
19:00
Group Stage - Day 4
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
LiquipediaDiscussion
Patches Events
17:00
Patches' Patch Clash #8
RotterdaM730
davetesta29
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 730
ByuN 551
CosmosSc2 106
Railgan 28
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 259
Dewaltoss 40
Dota 2
LuMiX0
League of Legends
Doublelift361
Counter-Strike
fl0m9240
summit1g2658
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor305
Other Games
Grubby4303
singsing2561
FrodaN1614
Mlord768
C9.Mang0266
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1585
gamesdonequick1338
WardiTV530
StarCraft 2
angryscii 32
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Response 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 13
• Pr0nogo 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1069
• Shiphtur214
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 24m
WardiTV Weekly
14h 24m
Monday Night Weeklies
19h 24m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 13h
The PondCast
2 days
Douyu Cup 2020
3 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
[ Show More ]
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light HT
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.