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| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
twitch TV (Tasteless/Rapid and Artosis) ASL Youtube Channel with both English and Korean Stream | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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dantroid
United States10 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19239 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Marl
United States692 Posts
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Ruff_kz
Kazakhstan36 Posts
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ThreeActPlay
United States249 Posts
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Piste
6177 Posts
On December 25 2016 15:20 Marl wrote: Hard to decide. Last is pretty up and coming and it would be interesting to have a guy to kinda take over fantasy's old spot. But zerg needs a revival and MUH BEESUIT. Well Last has been up for quite a while.. he went to Sbenu finals already on 2014, and has taken couple silvers and a gold from leagues after it. Predictions: Last>rush Bisu>hero Bisu>last Hero>rush Hero>last | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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neilmellor
China49 Posts
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Zera
Lithuania716 Posts
1.42 Last - Rush 2.65 1.68 Bisu - Hero 2.05 Its my first time seeing BW games on the list... | ||
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Netto.
Poland523 Posts
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razorsuKe
Canada2000 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
First time posting in a BW LR thread on here - only watched VODs until now. Merry christmas everyone - hero fighting! | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
Lets go Bisuuuuuu!!! | ||
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
On December 25 2016 12:48 dantroid wrote: I'd like another Zerg in the ro8 under my Christmas tree when I wake up, please. This too. Let's go hero. | ||
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FranzF1
Chile1710 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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ZeroChrome
Canada1001 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:03 ZeroChrome wrote: is the stream lagging like crazy for anyone else or is my internet just taking a dump same for me. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6591 Posts
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
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ZeroChrome
Canada1001 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
'Zerg lives matter.' | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:09 [[Starlight]] wrote: Hopin' Bisu and Hero advance. Especially Hero. 'Zerg lives matter.' Jaedong being the sole Zerg and doing well would make for a good narrative though. And I'm fine with TvT. | ||
c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:12 Sabu113 wrote: Could someone educate me on TvT cheddar? what could be done to end this misery quickly? I think last might not have any anti air and he has only tank and vultures hence mass wraith will win I guess and last wont be ready for this . | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:16 BLinD-RawR wrote: its only misery when its canata playing TvT. Canata vs Fantasy with Canata winning. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
Wait i'm confused. I thought Canata was the third string SKT1 terran? How much tvt did he actually play./ | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:19 Sabu113 wrote: Wait i'm confused. I thought Canata was the third string SKT1 terran? How much tvt did he actually play./ Canata was the SKT T1 Captain... | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:21 c3rberUs wrote: Anyone else find the colors confusing? Yep T_T | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
these are pretty good colors for the tileset | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:27 BLinD-RawR wrote: these are pretty good colors for the tileset I prefer clearer color differences when it comes to mirror matches. Last looks pretty ahead right now, cutting across Rush's center | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:21 c3rberUs wrote: Anyone else find the colors confusing? Nope, why? Beautifully played game by Last. | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:21 c3rberUs wrote: Anyone else find the colors confusing? Not kidding here, but you might be colour blind, the colours were teal and white, so I could see why you could confuse them if you were colour blind. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
 I already miss BisuDagger. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
Oh look. Pretty Toss in all his glory. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
The colors were kind of confusing at first but then my eyes settled in anyway as I figured who was controlling what. | ||
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RHoudini
Belgium3627 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:40 Sabu113 wrote: This by.Hero? the Sumsung guy?.? Oh look. Pretty Toss in all his glory. nope by.hero was in STX | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:40 Sabu113 wrote: This by.Hero? the Sumsung guy?.? Oh look. Pretty Toss in all his glory. This is Hero, the STX guy ^_^ | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
vZ: 31-20 (60.78%) vP: 18-3 (85.71%) I find it ironic that Bisu's weakest match up at the moment in ZvP, but it does make sense. | ||
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juvenal
2448 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
Oh this looks bad | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
lol everything is dead | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
it must be nice, to have protoss on your side | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
nice try Hero | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
Very nice. | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
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Xeln4g4
Italy1209 Posts
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:55 BLinD-RawR wrote: Yes | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:57 Xeln4g4 wrote: Only Bisu could win this game playing like this...big mistakes from hero imho....losing all those over leaving them undefended... I think Bisu sent 1 round too many zealots early game, but on the other hand, when it comes to early game aggression in PvZ. Normal protosses do X, Bisu does Y. | ||
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yarders
United Kingdom194 Posts
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:57 Xeln4g4 wrote: Only Bisu could win this game playing like this...big mistakes from hero imho....losing all those over leaving them undefended... Yeah just a fantastic game by Bisu. I'll always be an antifan but games like this are just phenomenal stuff, and why he's the greatest Protoss ever. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
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Piste
6177 Posts
On December 25 2016 17:00 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: I think Hero will beat bisu, call me crazy i know. You're crazy! j/k  Heros no lair hydra looked very scary, but bisu handled it like a boss with one cannon for very long and just adding two more at very late stage, going zealot heavy instead. Im sure any lesser protoss would have lost to the initial hydra pressure. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:07 thezanursic wrote: Neo-bisu is soo cheesy o.o He knows he has no chance against Last otherwise  | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Piste
6177 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Piste
6177 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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c3rberUs
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c3rberUs
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:14 c3rberUs wrote: So Last is going to pump from 2 facts and add a starport without expanding... he isn't going to do anything with the starport haha | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
"EEK! A DT!!" | ||
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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sasvorti00
Hungary90 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:14 Ej_ wrote: he isn't going to do anything with the starport haha Ikr | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
Bisu cheeses, wins, lol | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:14 Lachrymose wrote: It's weird how Tasteless was like 'it didn't do enough damage' when the Terran was actually super fucking dead. Bisu's decision making was really good, but my God he did mismicro twice really bad, that probe and just walking in with his goons once. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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IntoTheEmo
Singapore1169 Posts
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
"You are so good at using zealots so effectively. How do you become so good at using zealots"? Bisu: "You yourself has to become one with the zealots" | ||
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Warfie
Norway2846 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:18 classicyellow83 wrote: During the postgame interview "You are so good at using zealots so effectively. How do you become so good at using zealots"? Bisu: "You yourself has to become one with the zealots" Bruce Lee toss right here | ||
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Piste
6177 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:14 [[Starlight]] wrote: Superfast gg by Last. "EEK! A DT!!" He had neither ebay or academy building, so it would have been resulted significantly later expand which was already delayed for his 2fac push which does nothing vs a shuttle and dt. There was no chance for him. But did bisu get lucky with this build or did he anticipate 2fac response after his proxy? | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:16 thezanursic wrote: Bisu cheeses, wins, lol He lost by his cheeses but he won by strategy himself. Combo wall-in and rush dark to defend or attack was great in this situation. Last has played good in that game but Bisu has better than him. I think, Last vs Rush will again at the final's match. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6591 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:18 classicyellow83 wrote: During the postgame interview "You are so good at using zealots so effectively. How do you become so good at using zealots"? Bisu: "You yourself has to become one with the zealots" Bisu: "You have to pick protoss and send them 1a" | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:04 Piste wrote: You're crazy! j/k Heros no lair hydra looked very scary, but bisu handled it like a boss with one cannon for very long and just adding two more at very late stage, going zealot heavy instead. Im sure any lesser protoss would have lost to the initial hydra pressure. Bisu played great. I will be seriously shocked if hero loses to rush though. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:20 Piste wrote: He had neither ebay or academy building, so it would have been resulted significantly later expand which was already delayed for his 2fac push which does nothing vs a shuttle and dt. There was no chance for him. But did bisu get lucky with this build or did he anticipate 2fac response after his proxy? He had mines though. He could've fought on and seen what happened, least for a little bit. Kinda opposite of Fantasy-GG timing, lol. Well okay, maybe not. Too many tanks lost. So many. | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:14 Lachrymose wrote: It's weird how Tasteless was like 'it didn't do enough damage' when the Terran was actually super fucking dead. Yeah seriously. It was disappointing analysis because Tasteless played Protoss back in the day AND he could see the Terran side in this game. If Terran goes 2 Fac against Protoss and hasn't done any damage to Protoss economy by that stage in the game, AND doesn't even have a CC started, all Terran can do is all-in and pray the Protoss didn't have the econ to squeeze out DT tech on the side. There's no way Terran can then also afford to build Academy + Scan (plus you'd only have one scanner in this situation), given how many units Last lost during earlier engagements. As it turned out, Bisu expanded early enough to not only have plenty of room to squeeze out DTs but Robo tech too. That's a textbook victory path for Protoss. This game was completely over by the time Last finally killed the proxy buildings and for the commentators to say he didn't do enough damage is comical. The sloppy battle micro cost Last any chance to win that game. | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:21 bovienchien wrote: I think, Last vs Rush will again at the final's match. My money is on Last vs Hero. | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:07 thezanursic wrote: Neo-bisu is soo cheesy o.o Proxy gate vs terran isn't considered cheese any more. It's considered one of standard openings. | ||
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Gustav_Wind
United States646 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:18 IntoTheEmo wrote: Did Last just throw away his lead from deflecting the harass by not choosing to stabilise and expand while getting Siege mode, instead throwing away tanks? I feel like going 2 fact was a reasonable decision in theory - the gateway and pylon are so close to his base and if he can take those out he should have a pretty successful push that should at least pay for itself, and then he can gain an even bigger lead. Played out horribly, though. A higher risk higher reward strategy, but it could still have been a good decision. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:22 [[Starlight]] wrote: He had mines though. He could've fought on and seen what happened, least for a little bit. Kinda opposite of Fantasy-GG timing, lol. Lols Bisu had a Shuttle and Observers coming. Odds that mines kill a DT in that situation is much less than the probability the mines just end up backfiring and killing what's left of your army. If anything Bisu can likely sacrifice a DT or Zealot to mine drag kill all the Marines (very hard to avoid as Terran). A Protoss has to fuck up multiple different things while Terran plays perfectly to kill even a single DT in that situation, and more DTs and Shuttles can be made while you stall. | ||
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Warfie
Norway2846 Posts
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Cryoc
Germany909 Posts
What would have probably been good is to do just a normal 2fac, but the comments here are really ridiculous. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9505 Posts
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GTR
51451 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
Didn't see the prox. WTF is up with this ASL Zerg Curse???? | ||
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Piste
6177 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:24 classicyellow83 wrote: Proxy gate vs terran isn't considered cheese any more. It's considered one of standard openings. Did Bisu do this? I'm shocked by this | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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GTR
51451 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:27 GTR wrote: if rush loses this he should retire yep. | ||
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Warfie
Norway2846 Posts
or is it!? LMAO what happened here | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6591 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
Poll: Recommend Losers Game? Yes (53) If you have time (2) No (1) 56 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers Game? hehehehe | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9505 Posts
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klo8
Austria1960 Posts
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ZoW
United States3983 Posts
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Funnytoss
Taiwan1471 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:30 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: god is with us today flash was pleased with hero | ||
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Archaeo
United States397 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Warfie
Norway2846 Posts
like a car accident, you can't help but look | ||
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Piste
6177 Posts
Crazy :D | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:31 Piste wrote: Whattttt!! 3hatch before pool > 2rax proxy. Crazy :D To be fair, the proxy buildings were rather far away. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:31 Piste wrote: Whattttt!! 3hatch before pool > 2rax proxy. Crazy :D hey if 14CC can beat 4 pool | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
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ZeroChrome
Canada1001 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:27 GTR wrote: if rush loses this he should retire | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
2 barrack vs 3 hatch first pool. Unbelievable, Rush rushed and lost by his rush strategy | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
Hero is a true hero.  | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
I hope herO and the rest of the players learn to actually properly scout proxies and expansions instead of doing it half assed, we've had the same thing happen last week | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
Just one more | ||
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
i agree. PS: this is not a new counter, larva has been doing it a million times on fs.... looks like rush never watched him. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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toastus
Germany22 Posts
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rainei
Canada1316 Posts
That was amazing. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:30 BLinD-RawR wrote: Poll: Recommend Losers Game? Yes (53) If you have time (2) No (1) 56 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers Game? hehehehe No? Never knew Rush posted on TL | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9505 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:33 usopsama wrote: Why would he build 2 rax so fucking far away. Makes no sense. I mean herO scouted everywhere, but that spot. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6591 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:32 thezanursic wrote: Unfortunate scouting by herO, but nice comeback. I hope herO and the rest of the players learn to actually properly scout proxies and expansions instead of doing it half assed, we've had the same thing happen last week i think the best that could happen was this miss scout,like seriously u scout 2 rax and what ? u are already doing 12h,at best case u will be closed at your own main.but all this chaos and a hatchery unscouted was the key here. | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:33 usopsama wrote: Why would he build 2 rax so fucking far away. Makes no sense. Well ... if he hadn't fucked up horribly he would've won precisely because he built the 2 Barracks just far enough out of the way. He actually won that mindgame big time. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:32 thezanursic wrote: Unfortunate scouting by herO, but nice comeback. I hope herO and the rest of the players learn to actually properly scout proxies and expansions instead of doing it half assed, we've had the same thing happen last week You cant scout everywhere. Its a numbers game. | ||
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b0lt
United States790 Posts
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:34 Ej_ wrote: I mean herO scouted everywhere, but that spot. And it's his fault, if he moved his drone two extra pixels he would have scouted him, | ||
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:31 Ej_ wrote: gotta say, I thought that nothing could overcome the time in SC2 when Bunny lost with proxy 2rax vs 3hatch before pool, but here comes Rush and does the same after killing almost all of the drones link? | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:32 thezanursic wrote: Unfortunate scouting by herO, but nice comeback. I hope herO and the rest of the players learn to actually properly scout proxies and expansions instead of doing it half assed, we've had the same thing happen last week What Mind did was indefensible but what hero did wasn't nearly as bad. You can't scout every last spot on the map. | ||
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neilmellor
China49 Posts
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:35 thezanursic wrote: And it's his fault, if he moved his drone two extra pixels he would have scouted him, You're like that parent who gets mad at their kid for coming up 1 point short of an award for not "trying harder", when they could have just tried less hard and not even come close. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
actually i misspoke, it was happy vs roro, looking for the vod now found it: + Show Spoiler + | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:36 darktreb wrote: What Mind did was indefensible but what hero did wasn't nearly as bad. You can't scout every last spot on the map. Sure, but if you take the time to scout a possible proxy position at least take the extra 0.5s to scout it fully | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Warfie
Norway2846 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:38 thezanursic wrote: Sure, but if you take the time to scout a possible proxy position at least take the extra 0.5s to scout it fully There's always more to scout though, you have to make a choice how far to go all the time. | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:37 darktreb wrote: You're like that parent who gets mad at their kid for coming up 1 point short of an award for not "trying harder", when they could have just tried less hard and not even come close. No, not how it works. If herO elected not to scout that position, I'd chalk it down to bad luck, because he really can't scout everything, but on the other hand if he moves his drone towards that exact proxy position and then turns it away 2 pixels before he would see the RAX. That's what we call a mistake | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:40 thezanursic wrote: No, not how it works. If herO elected not to scout that position, I'd chalk it down to bad luck, because he really can't scout everything, but on the other hand if he moves his drone towards that exact proxy position and then turns it away 2 pixels before he would see the RAX. That's what we call a mistake Rush could've moved the raxes 2 pixels to the left too | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:40 Heartland wrote: There's always more to scout though, you have to make a choice how far to go all the time. It wasn't likely that he'd put his Rax north of that expansion location because a drone path might see it, soo no that's not entirely true | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:41 Ej_ wrote: Rush could've moved the raxes 2 pixels to the left too No because there's a wall to the west and to the north there is a corridor the drone could scout while moving to the terran's base. Point is there are locations where proxies are more or less likely, if you are going to scout a likely location, scout it entirely. You can't scout every location though | ||
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:38 Ej_ wrote: actually i misspoke, it was happy vs roro, looking for the vod now found it: + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIQk7KZjc0o Cheers! Couldn't find. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
"He needs to get his Layer now." | ||
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ThreeActPlay
United States249 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:45 [[Starlight]] wrote: lol, why can't the casters pronounce 'Lair'? "He needs to get his Layer now." put yo hands in the ayer | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:38 thezanursic wrote: Sure, but if you take the time to scout a possible proxy position at least take the extra 0.5s to scout it fully Your logic makes even less sense than Rush's proxy position. | ||
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GTR
51451 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Warfie
Norway2846 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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alypse
2771 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Warfie
Norway2846 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
so many lurker drops | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:51 Ansibled wrote: Twitch is fine for me. Not for me. Missed a couple of minutes of the match. | ||
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Warfie
Norway2846 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6591 Posts
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ThreeActPlay
United States249 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
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sasvorti00
Hungary90 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:59 sabas123 wrote: Hero is looking better than Jaedong 0_o Is that surprising? | ||
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ThreeActPlay
United States249 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:59 BLinD-RawR wrote: from one extinction event to another, Terran God is with them | ||
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LittLeLives
United States692 Posts
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Piste
6177 Posts
On December 25 2016 16:54 Piste wrote: Predictions: Last>rush Bisu>hero Bisu>last Hero>rush Hero>last Ezpz | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:59 BLinD-RawR wrote: from one extinction event to another, Terran Decent chance of two T advancing from Group D! Sea's TvP is always questionable though. Most likely Flash vs the world. Reminds me of those 1v15 ads in some old MSL/OSL intros. | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
On December 25 2016 20:59 sabas123 wrote: Hero is looking better than Jaedong 0_o Flash: "Hero is the best all around Zerg right now." | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
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Grettin
42381 Posts
Glad bisu won ;_; | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
And we were worried about Zerg. Flash, Sea, it's up to you. | ||
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neilmellor
China49 Posts
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
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usopsama
6502 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XjyI1LB.jpg) | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6591 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:04 Bakuryu wrote: im sad... just sad.... bisu winning over hero was the only good thing. we are very close to loss our relationszergship gentleman | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:06 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: we are very close to loss our relationszergship gentleman Yeah, what a disgusting statement. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
lololol. | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6591 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:08 classicyellow83 wrote: I feel bad for last because of all the shit storm hes gonna receive on YGOSU and his stream chat. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
 ) | ||
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thezanursic
5484 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:08 classicyellow83 wrote: I feel bad for last because of all the shit storm hes gonna receive on YGOSU and his stream chat. I guess one can't live on good TvT performances alone. | ||
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c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:08 classicyellow83 wrote: I feel bad for last because of all the shit storm hes gonna receive on YGOSU and his stream chat. It's kinda bad especially when you think that it will happen for pretty much all the other 23 players | ||
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
To give the actual answer, it's because Korean commentators say it like 'layer', so it's just the cool way to do it if you grew up on Broodwar. + Show Spoiler [Famously] + (12 minutes.) | ||
Peeano
Netherlands4990 Posts
I missed all today's games | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:04 usopsama wrote: this picture is so different from the Ro16 picture. Flash, Sea will be 2 last Terran of this season but I won't surprise when have no any Terran advance ro8. It's so sad today for me and for fan Terran. | ||
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classicyellow83
United States2393 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:16 c3rberUs wrote: It's kinda bad to think that it will happen for pretty much all the other 23 players Not as much for non elite players. No one is talking about Rush on YGOSU. Even when Rush beat Flash twice last week, not a single thread was mentioned about it. Rush was very sad. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6591 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:17 Lachrymose wrote: To give the actual answer, it's because Korean commentators say it like 'layer', so it's just the cool way to do it if you grew up on Broodwar. + Show Spoiler [Famously] + https://youtu.be/Nbi_omDXloI?t=726 (12 minutes.) The Koreans were actually a lot closer to the correct pronunciation than Tasteless and Rapid were, lol. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:11 [[Starlight]] wrote: I guess one can't live on good TvT performances alone. But what about aside from his monstrous TvT his TvP and TvZ were IIRC above 65% from classicyellow's posts plus he was dominating ladder everytime. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:26 outscar wrote: But what about aside from his monstrous TvT his TvP and TvZ were IIRC above 65% from classicyellow's posts plus he was dominating ladder everytime. I dunno... his TvP and TvZ sure didn't look good tonight. Is that so different from what he did in ASL1? He clobbered a still-getting-back-into-it Flash in TvT, then got clobbered by Shuttle in TvP. | ||
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
wtf how is that a disgusting statement? we have 0 terrans now, GJ. last vs rush: last played nice, although rush was missing chances with his wraiths, rush just didnt really use them effectively and slowly got choked of ressources. bisu vs hero: the most predictable match in terms of build orders took a fun turn by bisu using a build which he only does like 1% of the time, nice micro by bisu wins him the game even though lings kill some probes in his base. last vs bisu: i was happy to see 1 gate proxy being shut down by wall in + bisu also losing his probe. last scouted everything bisu was doing, yet did not have enough to kill the proxy gate and lost too much in micro. hero vs rush: rush scouted the pool timing and should have known that hero went 3 hatch before pool and should react accordingly.... his micro was not that good and reacted kinda late, giving hero enough time to mass lings. hero vs last: hero played very strong... last played with a lot of errors, it looked nothing like the alphago we know. so after group B with sharp and mind failing more or less horribly, last and rush just followed suit. | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
He also almost had that game vs Bisu if he only didn't overcommit to his attack. | ||
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usopsama
6502 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jD14nd8.jpg) This map pool though. If Jaedong or hero get paired up with a protoss in the RO8, they are basically dead. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:34 Nemesis wrote: That was quite a strong play by hero. I was quite impressed with his play. He also almost had that game vs Bisu if he only didn't overcommit to his attack. Have to wonder... who's the best Zerg right now, Jaedong or Hero?  Jaedong has a higher ceiling, but I don't think he's at it right now. | ||
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:35 usopsama wrote: This map pool though. If Jaedong or hero get paired up with a protoss in the RO8, they are basically dead. im grinning so hard right now :D are you actually implying a map imbalance with less than 15 games played..... per match up.... over ALL 4 maps. i mean, have you even watched the games? | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:36 [[Starlight]] wrote: Have to wonder... who's the best Zerg right now, Jaedong or Hero? Jaedong has a higher ceiling, but I don't think he's at it right now. I think hero is a fair bit better at this very moment. I would never count out JD in a big game or series though. Some guys just "have it" when it comes to being a winner. But in terms of overall skill level / polish in play, hero and Effort are both better bets than Jaedong for the time being. | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:43 Bakuryu wrote: im grinning so hard right now :D are you actually implying a map imbalance with less than 15 games played..... per match up.... over ALL 4 maps. i mean, have you even watched the games? So much this. Last time ppl were bitching because TvZ on FS is imba. Now PvZ on CB is imba too then? | ||
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:35 usopsama wrote: This map pool though. If Jaedong or hero get paired up with a protoss in the RO8, they are basically dead. it's not the map pool as the maps are just fine for zergs in zvp. It's just zergs playing dumb and gifting free wins for various reasons much like how terrans have been gifting free wins to zergs lately. | ||
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:35 usopsama wrote: This map pool though. If Jaedong or hero get paired up with a protoss in the RO8, they are basically dead. Did you actually just cite the winrates from ASL2 as the source to show that the race imbalance in ASL2 is due to the maps? That's impressively ridiculous. Anyway, here's stats from old TLPD since the amatuer era one has very few entries: Benzene TvZ: 25-14 (64.1%) ZvP: 27-28 (49.1%) PvT: 19-20 (48.7%) Circuit Breaker TvZ: 64-57 (52.9%) ZvP: 59-55 (51.8%) PvT: 71-63 (53%) Eye of the Storm TvZ: 54-46 (54%) ZvP: 43-30 (58.9%) PvT: 52-43 (54.7%) | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
 You could make good cases for at least six of the players having a good shot at winning it all... Bisu, Stork, Best, Flash (yep, think he'll advance), Zero, Jaedong. Some really good games to come. | ||
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1289 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:17 bovienchien wrote: this picture is so different from the Ro16 picture. Flash, Sea will be 2 last Terran of this season but I won't surprise when have no any Terran advance ro8. It's so sad today for me and for fan Terran. the moment when they decided to put benzene for final match.. | ||
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1289 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:48 Lachrymose wrote: Did you actually just cite the winrates from ASL2 as the source to show that the race imbalance in ASL2 is due to the maps? That's impressively ridiculous. Anyway, here's stats from old TLPD since the amatuer era one has very few entries: Benzene TvZ: 25-14 (64.1%) ZvP: 27-28 (49.1%) PvT: 19-20 (48.7%) Circuit Breaker TvZ: 64-57 (52.9%) ZvP: 59-55 (51.8%) PvT: 71-63 (53%) Eye of the Storm TvZ: 54-46 (54%) ZvP: 43-30 (58.9%) PvT: 52-43 (54.7%) can you also try getting rid off flash's record on benzene, cb, and eye of the storm? i would like to see the data without flash's score added into it. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19239 Posts
!!!! | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On December 25 2016 22:11 LaStScan wrote: can you also try getting rid off flash's record on benzene, cb, and eye of the storm? i would like to see the data without flash's score added into it. Shouldn't you also remove the results of the best of the players from the other respective races in that case? There's an easy way to decide to gauge the balance of the map that was played in the ProLeague. Both Benzene and Circuit Breaker was played in the Shinhan 2010/2011 ProLeague. In this particular season of the ProLeague, Benzene had a lot more zerg versus zerg (19), and protoss versus protoss (18) matches than terran versus terran (5). Despite the good terran results had against zergs in the map, perhaps the level difficulty terrans had against protoss makes this a bad map for terrans. Sea was very vocal about the level of imbalance against terrans in this particular map. For the 2010/2011 ProLeague season, Circuit Breaker had a more balanced range of mirror match-ups than Benzene, although terran versus terran (31) was more frequent than either protoss versus protoss (18), or zerg versus zerg (11). It seems terran is slightly more favourable in the eyes of the players and coaches in this map, or maybe just more terran friendly than the other maps used in that season of ProLeague. Not a such a good map for the zerg race it seems. It's harder to find an objective measure of balance for Eye of the Storm, since it was never used in the ProLeague, but it seems to be the typical T>Z>P>T map. Not such a good map for the zerg race. Considering all three maps are not easy for terran players when playing versus protoss, and we have basically only terran and protoss players in the round of 16, isn't it kind of obvious why terrans are struggling? It's not necessarily a map pool problem, perhaps it's a racial distribution problem. There are basically only two races involved, and one is favoured over the other. What now? You want the terran race to be favoured over protoss, as well as being generally favoured over zerg? | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
On December 25 2016 22:09 LaStScan wrote: the moment when they decided to put benzene for final match.. What? The benzen map hasn't never chosen in the final match. The fact in ro24 and ro16, Terran often lose in this map by rush luker of Zerg and big fighting late game by Protoss. | ||
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
On December 25 2016 22:34 Letmelose wrote: Shouldn't you also remove the results of the best of the players from the other respective races in that case? Yeah, JD and Bisu skew the stats too especially JD's record on Circuit Breaker. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/404_Circuit_Breaker/player_stats http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/407_Benzene/player_stats (bisu pvz) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/243_Eye_of_the_Storm/player_stats (bisu and osl didnt exactly mix so really low sample size for him here) | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
Traitor to the Swarm, being happy that a Protoss, Bisu at that, slew Hero. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On December 25 2016 23:00 Harem wrote: Yeah, JD and Bisu skew the stats too especially JD's record on Circuit Breaker. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/404_Circuit_Breaker/player_stats http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/407_Benzene/player_stats (bisu pvz) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/243_Eye_of_the_Storm/player_stats (bisu and osl didnt exactly mix so really low sample size for him here) Fun trivia. In the five maps awarded by KeSPA for being the map of the season (Sin Peaks of Baekdu, Blue Storm, Destination, Fighting Spirit, and Circuit Breaker), Jaedong has the best records in four of them. Jaedong on balanced maps is overpowered. | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1289 Posts
On December 25 2016 22:51 bovienchien wrote: What? The benzen map hasn't never chosen in the final match. The fact in ro24 and ro16, Terran often lose in this map by rush luker of Zerg and big fighting late game by Protoss. oh my bad | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10160 Posts
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
On December 26 2016 00:10 FlaShFTW wrote: BEST CHRISTMAS EVER HERO ADVANCESSSSS Me and you are thinking the same thing. I want hero to win the whole tournament. Hero fighting!@ | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
I think that was the main mistake. edit: It seems rush also didn't pay any attention to the spawning pool timing? I looked like he had no idea the 3rd hatchery existed until 2 lings attack his incoming marines from the back. Not sure what the correct decision making is if you know hero's getting 3 hatcheries (split your marines early on or ignore the third hatchery like he did this game). I think you can probably get your first 6 or so marines towards the natural and then the subsequent marines to the third and kill both of them at the same time. The bunker and the couple of scvs can after all defend against a lot of zerglings and drones at the same time, and you don't need that many marines to kill a single lone hatchery even with lings spawning from it. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
Although, the 3rd hatch was protected here on Neo Electric Circuit. | ||
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Miragee
8509 Posts
Hero was really on fire today. Even more impressive that Bisu won vs him the way he did. That was insane. Hero's Last game vs Last was so damn solid. Last never saw the light in that game. I must say I really liked Tasteless' casting. He did far better than I expected, very pleasing. | ||
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Glioburd
France1911 Posts
(even if as a terran, seeing Last out is kinda painful).Bisu played flawless as well. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
hero also played really solid that last game against Last. Got a third up, defended really well, caught Last just as he was transitioning with multiple drops etc... Aside from his mutalisk mishap, it was like a textbook example of how to deal with mech (basically, attack at the best timing with 400+ apm lol). Great games all around. Sad to see Last knocked out though and never imagined that we'll have zero terrans advancing to the Ro8 so far, unbelievable. I'm hoping both Flash and Sea advance! edit: that hero vs rush game though. As someone mentioned, Rush had 5 idle marines at least and was only attacking the exp with 3 other ones. He could've easily finished it off faster and attacked the main. Then a bunker at his main+several marines and lift rax into main or something. hero would've been in trouble if his main was razed and he lost most of his drones so he would've been forced to all-in potentially while Rush could've defended. After all, if he was dry on the mineral count, that hidden hatchery wouldn't have produced anything for a long while. Given, Rush wasn't expecting that hidden third and only scouted it after seeing those 2 lings attack his marines. | ||
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Bisu-Fan
Russian Federation3329 Posts
)))) i was cheering for all the zergs this ro16 cause only 2 existed, but what's with terran haha | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10160 Posts
On December 26 2016 00:15 SCC-Faust wrote: Me and you are thinking the same thing. I want hero to win the whole tournament. Hero fighting!@ I want flash to win the whole thing though :C but #1 hero fanboy is happy. | ||
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Shinokuki
United States859 Posts
On December 25 2016 19:57 Xeln4g4 wrote: Only Bisu could win this game playing like this...big mistakes from hero imho....losing all those over leaving them undefended... pathetic reaction from your part. Commentators a d all progamers were applauding both for insane multitasking. Bisu was too good that hero could. ot keep up. go study more | ||
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Shinokuki
United States859 Posts
On December 25 2016 21:43 Bakuryu wrote: im grinning so hard right now :D are you actually implying a map imbalance with less than 15 games played..... per match up.... over ALL 4 maps. i mean, have you even watched the games? progamer zergs have mentioned that zvp is impossible on benzene anyways | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10160 Posts
On December 26 2016 08:31 Shinokuki wrote: progamer zergs have mentioned that zvp is impossible on benzene anyways Benzene ZvP: ZvP: 27-28 (49.1%) what. | ||
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nurle
Norway308 Posts
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Funnytoss
Taiwan1471 Posts
On December 26 2016 10:07 nurle wrote: After watching Bisu for almost 10 years I'm still astonished at how easy he makes it look. Also very surprised that Last didn't make it. And Rush, rush rush rush.... What on earth were you thinking? People saying he should have attacked the main right away, or used all the marines. How did he not realize how late the spawning pool was? Nerves got to him I guess! Well, I'm thinking Rush didn't know about the 3rd base until those 2 Zerglings showed up from the south. | ||
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
Especially loved the gg timings (after dt drop, and after zergling surround) SO DRAMATIC | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
On December 26 2016 01:32 Crisium wrote: Jaedong also held off a BBS with a 3 hatch. SPL vs Canata (Air Force): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IldO_GuKpp8 Although, the 3rd hatch was protected here on Neo Electric Circuit. I have know about Zerg's streng when Zerg has 3 gas. And after I watched this game, Rush vs Hero game in the yesterday, I know more Zerg's streng when Zerg 3 hatch. | ||
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Miragee
8509 Posts
On December 26 2016 10:27 Funnytoss wrote: Well, I'm thinking Rush didn't know about the 3rd base until those 2 Zerglings showed up from the south. Which is weird because he saw no third hatch in the main and knew the spawning pool timing, didn't he? | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Normal 8 Rax however is alot better vs 3 hatch before pool. In Rush's case, he needed to go straight from natural to behind main mineral line while making a bunker at home I think... | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4128 Posts
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Miragee
8509 Posts
On December 27 2016 00:10 Dante08 wrote: Just watched the vods, the last game was a perfect example of how to deal with mech imo, multiple drops to harass just when Terran is transitioning and only has a handful of units on the map. Very good play from Hero. Well, to be fair, Hero was very far ahead when Last had his contain up, started to expand and to transition to mech. Because of that Hero was able to break the contain and contest the 4 bases before they were up and running and before Last had a significant number of mech units. Nontheless, Hero reacted perfectly and played really solid all the way to the end. | ||
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
As for rush come on the sunken had 60hp lol. He could just kill it and go behind the minerals and win the game. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19239 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
On December 26 2016 10:27 Funnytoss wrote: Well, I'm thinking Rush didn't know about the 3rd base until those 2 Zerglings showed up from the south. Rush had to have known it was 3hatch before pool based on the pool timing. Maybe he didn't know exactly where the third hatch was, but he should have known it existed. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + http://pgr21.com/pb/pb.php?id=free2&no=60538 The above video is testing 3 hatchery before spawning pool, each on a separate mineral field so that it isn't satisfiying enough for the terran to destroy just one hatchery with the BBS build (whereas it would lead to an advantage for terran if it was just simply 8 rax). Others have tested too, including random amateur players versus Rush, and ZerO versus Rush (switching races to make sure). In the case of terrans trying to finish the zerg by going straight for the jugular instead of playing optimally, zerg players (whether it is ZerO, an amateur player, or Rush himelf) have won in all cases. TheRock was the first terran player to win in these tests by playing smart with the hindsight that trying to end the game head on simply does not work if the zerg buys time with drones, and doesn't mess up the drone and zergling micromanagement by too much (over ten games). Under the assumption of the following, the zerg wins. 1. The map is Benzene (and the zerg needs to spawn at 1 o'clock due to the mineral placements giving the zergs a slight timing advantage) 2. Terran goes for BBS (not early barracks) and tries to end the game (instead of containing the zerg) 3. Zerg goes for three hatchery before pool on three separate mineral fields (to lure the terran into playing over aggressively). | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
Rush held his Marines back to bait Hero into trying to defend with pure zerglings. It appears that Rush never scouted the pool timing so he was assuming it was a regular 12 hatch. If he had scouted and known the slow timing, he probably would have gone straight for the drones which would've been a better play. So failure to scout the pool timing means he thought taking the natural would be enough. He hid his Marines hoping that hero would skimp on the sunken and try to defend with lings. Which he did. Unfortunately, the extra hatch meant Hero could outproduce Rush's army even after losing a lot of drones. In actuality, Rush needed to take down the drones at the start of the rush instead of focusing the hatchery. If he did, he could have taken advantage of the bigger timing window given by the late pool. TLDR: scout the pool timing kids. Edit: Actually the above video is pretty convincing. One thing, did they test with a bunker in the main? I feel like that would make a huge gigantic difference. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/664.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/708.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/125.jpg)
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