For those looking for an English stream check our the wonderful Sayle for an entertaining cast. For those who want the full Korean experience with Lee Seung Won, Kim Carry and Sonic check out the Korean rebroadcasts. And as always, special thanks to our restreamers
I did not have time to watch all group H games. I came here, hoping I would not get spoiled, and it turns out it's Sea playing. At least he made it through, I guess.
Streat rebuffering too frequently for anyone else?
On February 08 2014 21:31 RowdierBob wrote: Wow, Hero is so sick at zvp. Should've been much further behind after that failed opening.
He was ahead after that opening. That's the thing with those 3 hatch hydra strats, most of the time you do enough damage that you won't really be behind even if you "fail".
On February 08 2014 21:31 RowdierBob wrote: Wow, Hero is so sick at zvp. Should've been much further behind after that failed opening.
He was ahead after that opening. That's the thing with those 3 hatch hydra strats, most of the time you do enough damage that you won't really be behind even if you "fail".
On February 08 2014 21:31 RowdierBob wrote: Wow, Hero is so sick at zvp. Should've been much further behind after that failed opening.
He was ahead after that opening. That's the thing with those 3 hatch hydra strats, most of the time you do enough damage that you won't really be behind even if you "fail".
it didnt fail because he did do enough dmg by killing some probes that are pulled+ forcing more cannons.
On February 08 2014 21:31 RowdierBob wrote: Wow, Hero is so sick at zvp. Should've been much further behind after that failed opening.
He was ahead after that opening. That's the thing with those 3 hatch hydra strats, most of the time you do enough damage that you won't really be behind even if you "fail".
hmm u are not good at bw.
good argument.
i don't get it either. Can you explain why he was supposed to be so much behind after he killed gate,forge, 10-15 probes and forced like 4? cannons. While not loosing too many hydras so he was completely safe against (early) reaver harass?.
On February 08 2014 21:31 RowdierBob wrote: Wow, Hero is so sick at zvp. Should've been much further behind after that failed opening.
He was ahead after that opening. That's the thing with those 3 hatch hydra strats, most of the time you do enough damage that you won't really be behind even if you "fail".
hmm u are not good at bw.
good argument.
i don't get it either. Can you explain why he was supposed to be so much behind after he killed gate,forge, 10-15 probes and forced like 4? cannons. While not loosing too many hydras so he was completely safe against (early) reaver harass?.
Because going for early hydra bust means that you won't have a lot of drones and you'll have pretty bad economy as Zerg. After the hydra bust failed, hero had to spend considerable amount of time making drones and rebuilding his economy.
But still, the game was pretty equal and I actually think the Movie threw that game because when he killed the 3rd of hero, he should've just gone to kill 12 o'clock expansion as well, which only had one sunken as well. He had more than enough units to do it easily, but maybe he didn't scout it in time or something, I really have no idea why he wouldn't go for it, but he instead just danced around with his units back and forth and then even tried attacking the natural.
On February 08 2014 21:31 RowdierBob wrote: Wow, Hero is so sick at zvp. Should've been much further behind after that failed opening.
He was ahead after that opening. That's the thing with those 3 hatch hydra strats, most of the time you do enough damage that you won't really be behind even if you "fail".
hmm u are not good at bw.
That's right but doesn't invalidade what I said. There is a reason I set "fail" in "".
On February 08 2014 21:31 RowdierBob wrote: Wow, Hero is so sick at zvp. Should've been much further behind after that failed opening.
He was ahead after that opening. That's the thing with those 3 hatch hydra strats, most of the time you do enough damage that you won't really be behind even if you "fail".
it didnt fail because he did do enough dmg by killing some probes that are pulled+ forcing more cannons.
See above. That's why I used "" for fail. It wasn't failed of course. But for an all-in it's pretty easy to do enough damage and don't kill your oponent to be fairly even in the game.
On February 08 2014 21:31 RowdierBob wrote: Wow, Hero is so sick at zvp. Should've been much further behind after that failed opening.
He was ahead after that opening. That's the thing with those 3 hatch hydra strats, most of the time you do enough damage that you won't really be behind even if you "fail".
hmm u are not good at bw.
good argument.
i don't get it either. Can you explain why he was supposed to be so much behind after he killed gate,forge, 10-15 probes and forced like 4? cannons. While not loosing too many hydras so he was completely safe against (early) reaver harass?.
Because going for early hydra bust means that you won't have a lot of drones and you'll have pretty bad economy as Zerg. After the hydra bust failed, hero had to spend considerable amount of time making drones and rebuilding his economy.
But still, the game was pretty equal and I actually think the Movie threw that game because when he killed the 3rd of hero, he should've just gone to kill 12 o'clock expansion as well, which only had one sunken as well. He had more than enough units to do it easily, but maybe he didn't scout it in time or something, I really have no idea why he wouldn't go for it, but he instead just danced around with his units back and forth and then even tried attacking the natural.
Yep, I also think he should have backed up as his army drew too thin to, since he had to cancel (or cancelt on purpose?) his third.
On February 08 2014 21:31 RowdierBob wrote: Wow, Hero is so sick at zvp. Should've been much further behind after that failed opening.
He was ahead after that opening. That's the thing with those 3 hatch hydra strats, most of the time you do enough damage that you won't really be behind even if you "fail".
hmm u are not good at bw.
good argument.
i don't get it either. Can you explain why he was supposed to be so much behind after he killed gate,forge, 10-15 probes and forced like 4? cannons. While not loosing too many hydras so he was completely safe against (early) reaver harass?.
Because going for early hydra bust means that you won't have a lot of drones and you'll have pretty bad economy as Zerg. After the hydra bust failed, hero had to spend considerable amount of time making drones and rebuilding his economy.
But still, the game was pretty equal and I actually think the Movie threw that game because when he killed the 3rd of hero, he should've just gone to kill 12 o'clock expansion as well, which only had one sunken as well. He had more than enough units to do it easily, but maybe he didn't scout it in time or something, I really have no idea why he wouldn't go for it, but he instead just danced around with his units back and forth and then even tried attacking the natural.
Pretty much this. BW isn't SC2--you can't pump drones at will. Throwing all those resources into an early game hydra bust comes at a huge eco cost if you don't outright win or do significant damage. Hero's saving grace was killing enough probes to keep the game relatively even. He was still behind though but Movie couldn't get it done.
Yh... Sea also played pretty dumb. Also I don't think that theres a reason for not having vision around your base.
I remember losing to fact float back when I was D- since then I've always been building my 2nd pylon to spot... And I was what C max, not anymore probably. Compared to Sea who could easily get olympic on iccup.
On February 08 2014 21:31 RowdierBob wrote: Wow, Hero is so sick at zvp. Should've been much further behind after that failed opening.
He was ahead after that opening. That's the thing with those 3 hatch hydra strats, most of the time you do enough damage that you won't really be behind even if you "fail".
hmm u are not good at bw.
good argument.
i don't get it either. Can you explain why he was supposed to be so much behind after he killed gate,forge, 10-15 probes and forced like 4? cannons. While not loosing too many hydras so he was completely safe against (early) reaver harass?.
Because going for early hydra bust means that you won't have a lot of drones and you'll have pretty bad economy as Zerg. After the hydra bust failed, hero had to spend considerable amount of time making drones and rebuilding his economy.
But still, the game was pretty equal and I actually think the Movie threw that game because when he killed the 3rd of hero, he should've just gone to kill 12 o'clock expansion as well, which only had one sunken as well. He had more than enough units to do it easily, but maybe he didn't scout it in time or something, I really have no idea why he wouldn't go for it, but he instead just danced around with his units back and forth and then even tried attacking the natural.
Pretty much this. BW isn't SC2--you can't pump drones at will. Throwing all those resources into an early game hydra bust comes at a huge eco cost if you don't outright win or do significant damage. Hero's saving grace was killing enough probes to keep the game relatively even. He was still behind though but Movie couldn't get it done.
what has sc2 to do with anything? My point was that hero did huge eco dmg to movie, while keeping a strong enough hydra army to keep transition/pumping drones without risk after the burst. Thus, he somewhat made up for the eco investment he took early. Of course, if he hadn't killed the probes he would have been substantially behind. But he did. That's why I was wondering about "u are not good at bw" when it was a fair point that he "hydra all-in" wasn't a total "fail".
lol, I saw exactly this happening after Sea's loss to Jaehoon the other day. I knew that modesty is capable of beating Hero but probably still a slight underdog in the bo3 and that Hero's ZvP is too good for Movie on circuit breaker. It's a real shame that Sea's TvP is so weak right now, it used to be stronger and as a result it appears he won't be able to get another SSL title.
edit: Thnx for the cast, caught it live from 6am till 11
I think we are now seeing Sea's nerve striking him again. He isn't called "King of ProLeague" for no reason. The games he played today were sloppy. Its just sooner or later that good mentality player like Mind to take the number 1 Terran place.
P.S. Hoping to see Bisu vs hero soon in the Quarterfinal just because that will be interesting. I don't think any Protoss in the world can challenge hero's ZvP atm.
really entertaining series (the pvts and zvp that i watched, skipped the zvz/tvz lol) today, this ssl feels a lot like the old msl/osl and im making an effort to catch more games now
about hero vs movie, hero was definitely ahead all game (killing all the probes in the natural and losing almost no hydras is pretty big..) until the point where movies attack at his 3rd forced him into a horrible position and he lost that base, at which point he was behind, and only came back because he continuously denied movies 3rd base with excellent muta micro and guerrilla tactics
On February 09 2014 04:37 Xiphos wrote: I think we are now seeing Sea's nerve striking him again. He isn't called "King of ProLeague" for no reason. The games he played today were sloppy. Its just sooner or later that good mentality player like Mind to take the number 1 Terran place.
I dont think 3 hatch hydra is a cheese build anymore and can become standard just like 3 hatch fast spire.I see it regularly on good sospa afreeca players.They dont go all in except if they really hide their fast den and they go for fast kill.Three hatch hydra that Hero is doing offen is a safe opening even if scouted,they make just 6-8 hydras for forcing some extra cannons and destroying forge gateway and they keep pumping drones after that.
3hatch + double hydra den for upgrades its almost allin, unless u do significant dmg, which allow you to make transition into mid/late game [which hero did btw]
On February 10 2014 01:29 LV_426 wrote: 3hatch + double hydra den for upgrades its almost allin, unless u do significant dmg, which allow you to make transition into mid/late game [which hero did btw]
agree with you here about that game with that double den...i was speaking generally,and i think 3 hatch hydra its a versatile opening and a safe one if u dont exagerate with hydra production.ABout his versatility i can give an example of Larva-Movie game that was in sospa some time ago and where larva did 3 hatch den opening (placed in main and natural) and after that wich he double expand into 6 hatch hydra and completely overwhelmed Movie. I think 3 hatch hydra has big potential not by just puting some pressure on toss slowing his eco and cutting his +1 zelot timing by destroing his forge but even in macro and can give a better advantage in drone count compared to 3 hatch spire where u sacrifice some eco into fast tech.
When CBY drew Sea and then Movie for the same group she immediately started apologizing.. so I think he must've said something like he doesn't want to face Movie (or protoss in general?) before in the interview. Too lazy to look it up.
On February 10 2014 15:42 Stratos wrote: When CBY drew Sea and then Movie for the same group she immediately started apologizing.. so I think he must've said something like he doesn't want to face Movie (or protoss in general?) before in the interview. Too lazy to look it up.
She asked sea after the finals match in the interview who he wants to avoid and sea said he'd like to avoid Protoss. She jokingly said something like "I'll take a peak and try to not get protoss" and then she ended up matching sea up with toss lol
I really would prefer groups of 6 people, where everybody plays everybody Bo3. At the end top3 places qualify. I know, it would mean a lot of games. We could say top2 qualify to make the tournament shorter.
On February 10 2014 17:49 arbiter_md wrote: I really would prefer groups of 6 people, where everybody plays everybody Bo3. At the end top3 places qualify. I know, it would mean a lot of games. We could say top2 qualify to make the tournament shorter.
Isn't that what they do for Code S SC2 groups? The current format is fine as it is, especially since there's not an overwhelming number of players like SC2 has, so there's no reason to expand the number of players per group.
On February 10 2014 17:49 arbiter_md wrote: I really would prefer groups of 6 people, where everybody plays everybody Bo3. At the end top3 places qualify. I know, it would mean a lot of games. We could say top2 qualify to make the tournament shorter.
Isn't that what they do for Code S SC2 groups? The current format is fine as it is, especially since there's not an overwhelming number of players like SC2 has, so there's no reason to expand the number of players per group.
Broodwar is also not a volatile as SC2. I think it should be all Bo3 though. But then again: You have to win 2 or 3 games (depending on the route) to advance but you have to at least lose 3 matches to drop out. I think it's fair.
On February 09 2014 06:00 FyRe_DragOn wrote: really entertaining series (the pvts and zvp that i watched, skipped the zvz/tvz lol) today, this ssl feels a lot like the old msl/osl and im making an effort to catch more games now
about hero vs movie, hero was definitely ahead all game (killing all the probes in the natural and losing almost no hydras is pretty big..) until the point where movies attack at his 3rd forced him into a horrible position and he lost that base, at which point he was behind, and only came back because he continuously denied movies 3rd base with excellent muta micro and guerrilla tactics
Hmm, to me I didn't really ever feel hero got behind. He lost his third and a good number of units defending, however he also blocked any attempts at movie getting up his own third, and movie was mined out in his main before even his first attack, and his natural ran dry shortly after the attack finished, whereas hero still had three operational bases (though main and nat were close to running dry).
EPT
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Movie vs. 
Sea
Modesty vs. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dBv955N.jpg)
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At least he made it through, I guess.
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