Defiler Tour #59 [75$]

On June 03 2013 16:42 ne4aJIb wrote:
zerg imba t_t

On June 08 2013 22:26 ilovev wrote:
DT # 59 and may be DT # 60 will be last in june.
After that i go on vacation. Atleast month.
Thx for attention.

On June 09 2013 15:24 Metal[x] wrote:
link isnt working?

On June 08 2013 22:26 ilovev wrote:
DT # 59 and may be DT # 60 will be last in june.
After that i go on vacation. Atleast month.
Thx for attention.

On June 09 2013 15:33 ilovev wrote:
site is down for now --
try to fix...

On June 09 2013 12:41 ne4aJIb wrote:


Yoda is going on vacation into exile on the planet Dagobah.

On June 11 2013 08:31 uT)WhistleR wrote:
winner(neagle) is a hacker, me and my friend richie analyzed replays after the tour, if u wanna do it for urself check out the zvp on beltway(dont remember vs who) and the grandfinal

cant belive anyone else, except for draw noticed this

On June 11 2013 10:02 ne4aJIb wrote:


which rep? the one where neagle used two obs to get to terran main ?

On June 11 2013 09:24 pebble444 wrote:


And he will wait patiently for the one that will bring back Broodwar in pace of the dark force.

On June 11 2013 10:08 dRaW wrote:


he said ZvP, and I noticed his play style is VERY strange for his level. i.e against cryoc he makes 5observers on resonance II and doesn't even send them into the map, they idle @ his natural. Another example is his game sense, he seems to blind counter very consistently vs everyone, and move directly to counter armies. Another examples is against Weekly in the final when weekly sends to 12 oclock and he's already on his way to intercept.

edit: also he do 2gateway vs terror both games, but 1 game he leaves goon on ramp when terror opened differently however he didn't scout so he wouldn't know its a different opening. against cryoc on FS he did a completely different opening which was a completely greedy blind counter to what cryoc was doing, no ob ever entered his base. a dt in a shuttle entered @ like 8th minute.

On June 12 2013 01:40 Letherebelight wrote:
it's just you guys don't have game sense. That's why you always lose to amateur korean players. Korean class is different. Imagine. How can level of korean be same with you guys? korean train with each other, and you just play on iccup where half of users are under the level of 10 years old of korean child

On June 12 2013 05:31 uT)WhistleR wrote:
would a protoss stack 2 observers and send them into terran main over 2 turrets when terran goes m&m without even scouting that there was turrets? dont know much about pvt but that in itself seems very suspicious to me

On June 12 2013 05:46 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i not watched any of the reps. but i guess is standard to have turrets in terran base.no ? ;;

On June 12 2013 04:11 dRaW wrote:


actually no, he did goon scout in both and had different reactions to both. I beat neagle pvp last season, and if you check his ladder history ON iccup he is not that good
http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/Neagle.html

So how does a not very good player win defiler tour? Also, if you watch more of his games you will see patterns of blind counters. He won sziky once but that is one event, with a very unusual build.

I also find it funny that you mention we're losing to korean amateurs, most of them have been caught hacking. Cindy beat me 2-1 he was aka Sunday and banned from iccup. I wonder if he can win without hack? I bet not.

On June 12 2013 11:14 andreyyisbestandrey wrote:


I guess he means that it is suspicious that Neagle would send two observers to ensure he "scouts" in a game where Terran does such an unusual build.

I am watching this game right now (it is the DT #59 Final Neagle vs. Boss.Weekly) and I am not so convinced it was a hacker move. His observers did live just long enough to luckily see an additional barracks being built above the factory. A true hacker who wants to appear to not hack would have sent two observers to a vulnerable place like the very back of the Terran base.

Actually, the real reason why I don't suspect that Neagle hacks comes just after this observer move, when the Terran was moving out with his tanks. He left all of his tanks very vulnerable. It was 11 dragoons against 6 unsieged tanks at 9:20 in the game. A hacker would have destroyed the tanks and ended the game there.

I understand sometimes when you play a hacker, you can "feel" you are playing a hacker. So I look for any more hacker moves. At the ~21:00 minute mark the Terran moves out to P's ninja 12 base, toss had no observer in front of Terran to see move out but he did have zealot patrolling that did see. Did Neagle reposition his army and react to the move out a little too quickly? Not having a rewind function makes watching a specific move several times less than ideal, but necessary if one is to take such accusations seriously. It is moves like these I would find suspicious, but most any player repositions their army all the time, based only on a sense in anticipation for what the Terran is doing, without necessarily seeing with an observer.

Whistler, great game 1 vs Neagle! "There is a hatchery in his natural and that isn't normal."
Much less involved than the Weekly finals game. No sign of hacking.

Whistler game 2: ~3:00 minute mark he did not react as a hacker would to the run by. A good hacker would have sooner reacted to the runby by seeing it on the minimap.

I'm watching Neagle's (lack of) army movement and he's just not abusing like a maphacker woud. A true hacker makes consistent beneficial army trades with storms, dealing damage with goons, and moving back. With full map vision you can hit zerg army from all sides, and he's just not using to his advantage.

This game comes down to Whistler moving his whole army to fight the 4 zealot drop in his main, while Neagle masses off 8 gateways and rolls Whistler's 3rd, ending the game.

None of this I think can definitely say he hacks or not. A map hack may give the user the confidence to do something like this strategy though. As a counter to that, I believe Whistler was behind throughout the game in unit count after the early game, and Neagle knew it is a safe bet to just mass off 8 gateways.

Game 3 Neagle takes out Whistler's 3rd with 4 gate zealot. Would a hack help Neagle determine muta timing and whether 4 gate zealot is a good idea? Yes. Does his use of this strategy mean he hacks? Not necessarily.

Watching the Terror games. Don't see any sign of hack.

TL, DR: lol Iraq appears to be falling deeper into sectarian conflict as a wave of bombings and shootings killed more than 70 people Monday. Nearly 2,000 people have died since April amid rising tensions between Iraq’s Shiite-led government and Sunni militants.

On June 12 2013 12:53 dRaW wrote:



it's mostly his inconsistent moves followed by his unusual scout timing. i.e he scouted the T in last game @ that time to see the move to 12, in other games he doesnt send random zealots to scout army movement though. (unless it's convenient). I understand lightkoreankid is saying that hes good , but generally good players do consistent sneaky things to gain intel at a higher level and determine follow-ups. Neagle's mechanics are not as great as his "fish level" would correlate to nor does he do any of these scouting methods consistently. In every game he wins, he is doing an optimal build to the opponent and using a timing to gain a clear advantage furthering his lead. In any game he loses, it's just because his mechanics are not that good and gets outmacroed.

On June 12 2013 05:31 uT)WhistleR wrote:
would a protoss stack 2 observers and send them into terran main over 2 turrets when terran goes m&m without even scouting that there was turrets? dont know much about pvt but that in itself seems very suspicious to me

On June 12 2013 14:22 andreyyisbestandrey wrote:


Something to condider, but to that extent can be argued that Koreans are known to be dynamic players and fluidly play the situation by ear.

In the game he lost to Whistler, he had almost perfect micro and macro mechanics, he just did not anticipate a forward hatchery move. The other games against Whistler I can only say that choosing such builds - 4 gate mass and 8 gate mass are not indicative in themselves that he hacks. I may not have caught suspious activity but would love to see an analysis of ehether or not what did were viable, safe plays based on what he knew. But even if they were not, that still does not prive one way or the other.

Proving something based on moves from a replay is difficult. You do not know what the player is thinking. Especially so with people as weird and different as Koreans. Koreans think about this game in their Korean terms

On June 12 2013 20:36 fold wrote:
I didn't see any blind probe pulling in game 2 vs whistler, he clearly saw the zerglings and that one probe blocking gave him enough time to react quickly. I think his PvZ builds are just cheesy and throw the zergs off. Maybe some weird decisions like why did he decide to make 2 cannons then cancel 1 off against whistler when he didn't see anything but he could also just be lucky with the builds.

I have no idea if he cheats or not but that shuttle was really suspicious. Also whistler wasn't going to win that anyway with no scouting...a pair of scourge would have taken care of the shuttle and also let him see the 8 gate.

Game 2 against Justice, I think it's really obvious to make an early forge. He doesn't even play Z so you can assume he's going to cheese. It's smart play.

Also have to take into account maybe he just knows how those people play like so he adjusts his builds.

On June 12 2013 20:36 fold wrote:
I didn't see any blind probe pulling in game 2 vs whistler, he clearly saw the zerglings and that one probe blocking gave him enough time to react quickly. I think his PvZ builds are just cheesy and throw the zergs off. Maybe some weird decisions like why did he decide to make 2 cannons then cancel 1 off against whistler when he didn't see anything but he could also just be lucky with the builds.

I have no idea if he cheats or not but that shuttle was really suspicious. Also whistler wasn't going to win that anyway with no scouting...a pair of scourge would have taken care of the shuttle and also let him see the 8 gate.

Game 2 against Justice, I think it's really obvious to make an early forge. He doesn't even play Z so you can assume he's going to cheese. It's smart play.

Also have to take into account maybe he just knows how those people play like so he adjusts his builds.

On June 12 2013 20:43 LRM)TechnicS wrote:


please see the thread, it even has pictures. also i analyzed 15 out of 15 games thoroughly...

On June 12 2013 20:46 Letherebelight wrote:


Please read carefully. He's talking about your analisis exactly

On June 12 2013 20:50 LRM)TechnicS wrote:


Please answer the question honestly - "The quesiton is why are you all of a sudden so insistent on defending him? What do you know about him? Where do you know him from and how are you guys close?"

edit: up until this question letherebelight was answering almost instantly here ^^

On June 12 2013 21:36 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
Really? Which clan? What was his ID and your ID?

On June 12 2013 21:45 Letherebelight wrote:


sorry but it's related with privacy that korean users can know,but what i can tell you is it's one of famous clans, and he was verified player. sorry for not to tell in that he is now at situaltion with some hack issue right? and neagle is his temporary ID.

On June 12 2013 21:49 LRM)TechnicS wrote:


That's a very suspicious answer

On June 12 2013 21:57 Letherebelight wrote:
He's korean, I'm korean, I know him via online

On June 12 2013 21:56 Letherebelight wrote:


He was at several clans including By, Kal, Dreamteam...
I cannot contact him unless he join iccup with neagle, he is not playing fish after early of season
and he told in the channel he's just playing tour for fun and to learn english talking with others ,like he said in some replay. Why I advocate him is that tour's replay was similar to what he originally plays. He like 2base fast arbiter vs t, 11nexus vs zerg, 21probe two gate to kill FD ;; He did same as in his clan league.

On June 14 2013 16:07 iG.Arcneon wrote:
Wasnt lettherebelight alfio?
I also cant understand how he could maphack, or he just didnt vs me then atleast... If you look at the finals of previous DT where i played neagle, he got totaly massacred by dt's with him playing TvP on LT so I reaaally doubt there's any maphack involved