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On February 13 2012 11:37 WaterTower wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 10:48 Hinanawi wrote:On February 13 2012 08:55 Zariel wrote:
The first push Flash sent out was traded very very efficiently by Flash. Although many tanks were lost, huge amounts of zealots and goons were also lost too. From my point of view, he used about 16 tanks and 12 vultures that wiped Stork's ground army. The push was designed to thin out his forces while he had the macro upper-hand, this then made Stork's line of defense very small across his 4-5 bases.
TBH, he never mined anything out of (5th) 3 o'clock expo, he only had 3-4 bases running at most.
In hindsight, only way I could see Stork winning was to give up his own natural straight away when Flash dropped 2 tanks there and go for Flash's base with what he had (Shuttle, 2 zeals, about 6 goons, reaver inc). Flash EMPTIED his base, he literally had no units (at most 2 tanks coming out, and delayed vulture upgrades).
I really don't know how anyone is gonna beat Flash. A player might have equal or better micro/macro than Flash, but it's his anticipation (and leaving a random unit at a key spot) that will outwit his opponent, almost like he's telling the opponent what build to use lol. Sometimes Flash just suddenly loses to something like a bad early TvT engagement, if I had to put my guess on where his first loss will come from it would be from TvT. Stork has better macro than Flash. He might have won if he had just keep army trading, and then gain the upper hand on economy. And having a food advantage isn't the whole story. Vultures cost 75 min and is 2 food while goons are 2 food and cost 125 min and 50 gas. (The record in terms of cost/food goes to devouver which is 2 food and 250 min/150 gas). Flash had a lot of vultures, while Stork's army was goon heavy. Thus, IMO, after the first push , they were even. But Flash was just the better player and outplayed Stork.
I disagree with you. Stork doesn't have better macro than Flash as the game already pointed out. During the engagement, Flash continue to macro while microing his troops. Stork was too busy with the shuttle micro, he didn't macro and thus he's behind on supply.
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Stork was never ahead. I don't get why people see otherwise? Maybe because it's Lightwip (and hence, it's fun to disagree with him?)
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On February 12 2012 10:49 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 10:06 Kipsate wrote:On February 12 2012 10:05 Xiphos wrote:On February 12 2012 09:59 pylonsalad wrote:
Stork was always disadvantaged from the moment Flash went 14CC without being punished and then really disadvantaged after the cliffing. However, after successfully breaking the first push, he put himself in a position to get back into the game. He was still behind but the game wasn't over. The game was effectively over when he started carrier tech instead of playing a ground attrition game. Well...it was Barrack FE but I'm in completely harmony with the bold part. It wasn't, it was a 14cc. U srs? Wow, I thought it was a regular Barrack Expand. Stork's luck man....
Stork neglected to probe scout to be greedy, I'd say he had it coming
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On February 13 2012 12:41 VGhost wrote:
Also wtf nobody has better macro than Flash except maybe BeSt on a good day.
I don't know, man. I once saw Jaedong summon an entire army out of his main base in five seconds.
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On February 13 2012 11:37 WaterTower wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 10:48 Hinanawi wrote:On February 13 2012 08:55 Zariel wrote:
The first push Flash sent out was traded very very efficiently by Flash. Although many tanks were lost, huge amounts of zealots and goons were also lost too. From my point of view, he used about 16 tanks and 12 vultures that wiped Stork's ground army. The push was designed to thin out his forces while he had the macro upper-hand, this then made Stork's line of defense very small across his 4-5 bases.
TBH, he never mined anything out of (5th) 3 o'clock expo, he only had 3-4 bases running at most.
In hindsight, only way I could see Stork winning was to give up his own natural straight away when Flash dropped 2 tanks there and go for Flash's base with what he had (Shuttle, 2 zeals, about 6 goons, reaver inc). Flash EMPTIED his base, he literally had no units (at most 2 tanks coming out, and delayed vulture upgrades).
I really don't know how anyone is gonna beat Flash. A player might have equal or better micro/macro than Flash, but it's his anticipation (and leaving a random unit at a key spot) that will outwit his opponent, almost like he's telling the opponent what build to use lol. Sometimes Flash just suddenly loses to something like a bad early TvT engagement, if I had to put my guess on where his first loss will come from it would be from TvT. Stork has better macro than Flash. He might have won if he had just keep army trading, and then gain the upper hand on economy. And having a food advantage isn't the whole story. Vultures cost 75 min and is 2 food while goons are 2 food and cost 125 min and 50 gas. (The record in terms of cost/food goes to devouver which is 2 food and 250 min/150 gas). Flash had a lot of vultures, while Stork's army was goon heavy. Thus, IMO, after the first push , they were even. But Flash was just the better player and outplayed Stork.
To be honest when the terran has more supply than the protoss the protoss is in big trouble even if the terran has a lot of vultures in the mix. I didn't get to watch the game so I don't know if flash was 90% vults 10% tank but in general the toss should be at least 20-25 supply ahead at almost all times
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United States13143 Posts
On February 13 2012 17:34 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 12:41 VGhost wrote:
Also wtf nobody has better macro than Flash except maybe BeSt on a good day. I don't know, man. I once saw Jaedong summon an entire army out of his main base in five seconds.
This is the best post I've seen in days.
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On February 13 2012 17:55 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 17:34 okum wrote:On February 13 2012 12:41 VGhost wrote:
Also wtf nobody has better macro than Flash except maybe BeSt on a good day. I don't know, man. I once saw Jaedong summon an entire army out of his main base in five seconds. This is the best post I've seen in days.
OMFG that's amazing hahaha!
But yeah nobody has better macro than Flash. Please.
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On February 13 2012 18:37 Caladbolg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 17:55 Elyvilon wrote:On February 13 2012 17:34 okum wrote:On February 13 2012 12:41 VGhost wrote:
Also wtf nobody has better macro than Flash except maybe BeSt on a good day. I don't know, man. I once saw Jaedong summon an entire army out of his main base in five seconds. This is the best post I've seen in days. OMFG that's amazing hahaha! But yeah nobody has better macro than Flash. Please.
I dunno about that! I get the feeling that JvF late game seems to favour Jaedong.
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Lategame is actually decided less by macro, and more by management and great decisions. Midgame is where macro players truly shine. That's how oov gained his rep.
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He is always better off playing zeal/goon against Flash since Stork has this uncanny ability to break push with same supply or less.
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On February 13 2012 17:34 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 12:41 VGhost wrote:
Also wtf nobody has better macro than Flash except maybe BeSt on a good day. I don't know, man. I once saw Jaedong summon an entire army out of his main base in five seconds.
LOL.
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On February 13 2012 17:34 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 12:41 VGhost wrote:
Also wtf nobody has better macro than Flash except maybe BeSt on a good day. I don't know, man. I once saw Jaedong summon an entire army out of his main base in five seconds.
ROFL
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Yeah, JD summoned an army. With the help of 4 troll drones to get him there. The part of that game I laughed was not JD's face, but Flying's face with the words 'WTF!" imprinted on him and his eyes O_O.
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Stork could really have won that match vs. Flash.
In the rematch then
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It says KT vs Samsung is scheduled later today. Am I reading the event calendar correctly?
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On February 14 2012 08:49 beachbeachy wrote:
It says KT vs Samsung is scheduled later today. Am I reading the event calendar correctly?
Yes you are
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Cool. When was the last time two teams played each other two times in a row like this?
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On February 14 2012 08:53 beachbeachy wrote:
Cool. When was the last time two teams played each other two times in a row like this?
T1 vs Entus
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Just for clarity, this is KHAN vs KT, and the new thread will be KT vs KHAN.
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On February 14 2012 09:31 hp.Shell wrote:
Just for clarity, this is KHAN vs KT, and the new thread will be KT vs KHAN.
Are making the new one?
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EPT
