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On January 04 2012 03:03 Condor Hero wrote:
just watched the vods.
Set 1 reminded me of playoffs when Best's DT almost 40 killed Hydra.
CJ got all the matchups they wanted, Best vZ, Skyhigh vs T, Bisu vs Snow, just got outplayed on each .
Should've been closer and probably will be next time.
SKT played its aces on the maps they wanted, while CJ put its aces based on matchups. I guess this game shows that map imba/familiarity was more important than MU
Also, seems like CJ was trying to replicate the PvP losses that Bisu has been experiencing on Outlier, but Snow was probably not good enough of a toss to do it.
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On January 04 2012 03:03 Condor Hero wrote:
just watched the vods.
Set 1 reminded me of playoffs when Best's DT almost 40 killed Hydra.
CJ got all the matchups they wanted, Best vZ, Skyhigh vs T, Bisu vs Snow, just got outplayed on each .
Should've been closer and probably will be next time.
Matching Snow against Bisu is hardly a favorable match-up for CJ in the slightest.
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United States7639 Posts
On January 04 2012 03:16 sviatoslavrichter wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 03:03 Condor Hero wrote:
just watched the vods.
Set 1 reminded me of playoffs when Best's DT almost 40 killed Hydra.
CJ got all the matchups they wanted, Best vZ, Skyhigh vs T, Bisu vs Snow, just got outplayed on each .
Should've been closer and probably will be next time. SKT played its aces on the maps they wanted, while CJ put its aces based on matchups. I guess this game shows that map imba/familiarity was more important than MU
Oh yeah. Maps definitely imba for Fantasy in a TvT and Bisu in a PvP lol. I actually can't figure out why on earth Bisu keeps coming out on outlier. He was 1-2 on it before last night, and is still pretty vulnerable to PvP BO losses on it. It just feels like a waste, when he could be slaughtering zergs on chain reaction or whatever.
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On January 04 2012 03:20 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 03:03 Condor Hero wrote:
just watched the vods.
Set 1 reminded me of playoffs when Best's DT almost 40 killed Hydra.
CJ got all the matchups they wanted, Best vZ, Skyhigh vs T, Bisu vs Snow, just got outplayed on each .
Should've been closer and probably will be next time. Matching Snow against Bisu is hardly a favorable match-up for CJ in the slightest.
There isn't really any favourable matchup vs Bisu... but a PvP against him right now is probably the best you're gonna get.
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On January 03 2012 22:17 sAw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 22:14 Dakkas wrote:On January 03 2012 22:13 sAw wrote:On January 03 2012 22:11 Shurayuki wrote:On January 03 2012 22:08 sAw wrote:On January 03 2012 22:06 Shurayuki wrote:On January 03 2012 22:05 sAw wrote:
Bisu is in deep shit as it is. Snow can now do whatever he chooses. O K o.o Well, he made 2546 cannons so I hoped Snow would contain him and double expand. Guess not. xD yeah you would think that but Bisu killed so many probs i guess he really felled pushed to do damage right then and there, i blame day[9] for telling me static defenses are badbadbad^^ but normal bw rules don't really apply to P Also, them DTs did way more damage than they should. Regardless of my team losing badly, BW still fires up my heart as it did all the years before. The DTs gave the game to Bisu imo. Snow saw that they were out but refused to get any cannons even though he would never get observers out in time Yeah, many things went wrong for Snow (dragoon @ ramp as well, very late obs)... Anyway, it would be fair to admit that SKT and KT are seemingly the two strongest teams this season.
This may come off as im hatin' but im not.
I personally don't feel KT is as powerful as you said. Stats has been streaky (a good streak in PL followed by a bad one, for a while now). He ll drop his momentum, and then KT will be in trouble, more likely than not. Personally i feel Khan is more powerful. Sure Stork and Jangbi are not the most consistent of players, but they are powerful in their own rights. And the support cast, I feel is stronger than that of KT's. I dunno they just feel more.... solid?.. overall.
And of course, Team 8, should they be able to live up to their past strength. Their paper strength is scary, but lack of practice or whatever else has been pulling them down. Hoping to see them in the top half of the competition.
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On January 04 2012 02:32 red4ce wrote:
Wow CJ wtf? Hydra losing to BeSt? Skyhigh losing to Fantasy? The only upside to all this is that if KT can 3-0 their next match they'll be in first place.
KT only need to win the next match to be first i think, their opponent is SKT.
Though, KT won't win 
Edit: Ehehe.. Double post, sry :3
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Can't believe that Hydra got worked by BeSt like that. Sair-DTs plays isn't suppose to work anymore.
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nvm wrong posts
anyway, dissapointing scores  CJ aint looking so strong anymore
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It might be strange to say this for a team that has Flash,but I think that KT is very,very unstable team. You never know what to expect from Action,Crazy-Hydra,Mind and Perfective... And all the zergs in the team are pretty much dead if they run into a terran no matter how bad the terran is. And their Terran and Protoss lineups are really terrible if you don`t count Flash and Stats. The only thing they have working for them is very clutch play every time it matters.
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On January 04 2012 04:02 Vuk_91 wrote:
It might be strange to say this for a team that has Flash,but I think that KT is very,very unstable team. You never know what to expect from Action,Crazy-Hydra,Mind and Perfective... And all the zergs in the team are pretty much dead if they run into a terran no matter how bad the terran is. And their Terran and Protoss lineups are really terrible if you don`t count Flash and Stats. The only thing they have working for them is very clutch play every time it matters.
no doubt u never know what result u can get when u play KT , but the Terran and Protoss lineup is not that horrible.. Stats got Wooki now who hopefully will show some good games, and Flash got Mind now so its much better than in last season
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On January 04 2012 01:34 KTF_CloaK wrote:
To be honest his opponents were not playing on their level, although thats not bests fault his PvZ is pretty good but jd screwed up on his simcity and hydra just failed...
I thought the hidden robo into unscouted dt harass was pretty nice, and he kept his sairs alive for a long time.
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On January 04 2012 04:09 Jindo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 01:34 KTF_CloaK wrote:
To be honest his opponents were not playing on their level, although thats not bests fault his PvZ is pretty good but jd screwed up on his simcity and hydra just failed... I thought the hidden robo into unscouted dt harass was pretty nice, and he kept his sairs alive for a long time.
He kept his sairs alive? More like hydra didnt do a fuck about them lol
expected more from this match and skyhigh just threw his game away...
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On January 04 2012 03:24 Kiett wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 03:16 sviatoslavrichter wrote:On January 04 2012 03:03 Condor Hero wrote:
just watched the vods.
Set 1 reminded me of playoffs when Best's DT almost 40 killed Hydra.
CJ got all the matchups they wanted, Best vZ, Skyhigh vs T, Bisu vs Snow, just got outplayed on each .
Should've been closer and probably will be next time. SKT played its aces on the maps they wanted, while CJ put its aces based on matchups. I guess this game shows that map imba/familiarity was more important than MU Oh yeah. Maps definitely imba for Fantasy in a TvT and Bisu in a PvP lol. I actually can't figure out why on earth Bisu keeps coming out on outlier. He was 1-2 on it before last night, and is still pretty vulnerable to PvP BO losses on it. It just feels like a waste, when he could be slaughtering zergs on chain reaction or whatever.
It's more map familiarity than map imba in that case. Bisu keeps getting sent on Outlier for the same reason Flash kept getting sent out on Medusa (one of the most Z>P>T<Z maps ever) in '09--they're so much more familiar with the map than their opposition that MU does not matter anymore.
SKT has a history of playing for map familiarity, while CJ has a history of trying to get advantageous matchups (it's why they're famous for sniping other teams). They're two completely different coaching philosophies. By the end of a proleague season, usually each SKT player, for example, can be expected to be sent out on one or two maps--never more than two. I'll write a longer post on this later.
EDIT: I should add that this changes substantially depending on the team's opponent as well. When SKT plays KT, they usually train two of their players to specifically snipe Flash while the other three focus on training maps; KT tends to let Flash and Stats pick two or three maps and the rest of their players seem to get sent out randomly; etc.
It's a fascinating topic, really.
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On January 04 2012 04:23 KTF_CloaK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 04:09 Jindo wrote:On January 04 2012 01:34 KTF_CloaK wrote:
To be honest his opponents were not playing on their level, although thats not bests fault his PvZ is pretty good but jd screwed up on his simcity and hydra just failed... I thought the hidden robo into unscouted dt harass was pretty nice, and he kept his sairs alive for a long time. He kept his sairs alive? More like hydra didnt do a fuck about them lol expected more from this match and skyhigh just threw his game away...
Didnt Hydra do a Muta/Scourge attack into BeSt main, killing all 4 Sairs in the beginning? People where complaining that he didn't spread his Mutalisk during the attack.. But how many Sairs were there? 2, after the scourges hit. 1 cannon hit is 20 damage. So he ll probably take more damage trying to split his Mutas, compared to just nuke down the Cannon/Sairs quickly (unupgraded Sairs deal 2dmg/hit to Mutalisks).
Killing Sairs in ZvP is mostly about the Toss making mistakes and lose the Sairs. There's no real way to actively dwindle the Sair count, save for making 100000 scourges and hope to flank/trap the Sairs somewhere. BeSt wasn't very active with his Corsairs, so there's no real way for Hydra to kill them off early. He tried to camp outside BeSt's base w Hydra to catch the Sairs fleet too.
He were sloppy with his scourges in the big fight tho. I don't think the 3/4 Mutas idling would have made a difference. He was defending, waiting for Hive, and those 3/4 Mutas wouldn't do anything to BeSt Sair fleet + zillions of Dragoons force.
For the Skyhigh game, i feel he was slightly behind in the beginning. The Vults harasses were nice, and did some decent damage. But upslope Tank contain in TvT is brutal, and that's what Fantasy had, cornering Skyhigh into the SW part of the map. Despite killing lots of SCV and being ahead in supply, everytime Skyhigh tried to break out, he lost almost twice as much stuff as Fantasy did, and only managed to loosen the contain by a little. We can easily see that by the later half of the game, Fanta had WAYY more tanks despite the supply deficit.
Skyhigh did well to manage to overcome the disadvantage of the contain, and was even ahead for a while in the game. But Fantasy was never in too terrible a position imho, he had the positional advantage for the most part, and that seem to count for a LOT in TvT, esp with ground-heavy army like those two players had today. Was an intense back and forth game, imho.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37120 Posts
What exactly does Hyde mean when he says the banner is in wrong order?
I see it as being perfectly fine
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
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On January 04 2012 05:31 Seeker wrote:
What exactly does Hyde mean when he says the banner is in wrong order?
I see it as being perfectly fine
SKT is on the left when it should be on the right to match the order of the names in the title.
Also, way to get owned in front of your bosses CJ.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 04 2012 04:23 KTF_CloaK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 04:09 Jindo wrote:On January 04 2012 01:34 KTF_CloaK wrote:
To be honest his opponents were not playing on their level, although thats not bests fault his PvZ is pretty good but jd screwed up on his simcity and hydra just failed... I thought the hidden robo into unscouted dt harass was pretty nice, and he kept his sairs alive for a long time. He kept his sairs alive? More like hydra didnt do a fuck about them lol expected more from this match and skyhigh just threw his game away...
He had alot of scourge, he had mutas, he killed the sair count early but then did nothing about it later
Remember that Zerg is not only limited by resources, but more so by Larvae, and Larvae into Overlords(AND drones for that matter) means no fighting units, which is why even when Hydra cleaned up the dragoons he couldn't stop the zealots.
well that and he didn't use his lurkers well enough and his defiler tech seemed off.
So yes, not killing the sairs was crucial, he tried but failed.
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wtf these results are not what I was expecting to wake up to. Interesting games, that TvT didn't pick up until the last 15 minutes when there were like 10 base trades haha...the PvP was back and forth too, I thought Snow was going to take it when he scouted Bisu's fast DT, but Templar + Cannons own
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EPT
