EPT[SPL] CJ Entus vs SKTelecom T1 - Page 63
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Simplistik
2094 Posts
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Soft`Soap
Canada865 Posts
As a hardcore bisu fan I wish that I could say that Bisu won that game, but it felt more like snow lost it the fact that he scouted dts while he has a robo should've meant that he had the BO advantage and he killed of bisu's nexus but wtf he couldn't wall of his ramp properly (seriously?) and he lost way too many probes to the dt that he ALREADY KNEW was coming (not to mention that the dt first attacked the GOONS at bisu's expansion before heading to snow's base) All around snow sucked ass And I really think that CJ hit the MU's that they wanted this week hydra vs best (best zvper on CJ vs best who is not known for his pvz) skyhigh vs fanta (skyhigh the tvt sniper) and ARGUABLY bisu vs snow (although I feel that horang2 would've been a better option vs bisu, a pvp for bisu doesn't seem to favor him too much, although we haven't seen his pvt in months and we don't know if that's his weakest or not) | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 04 2012 08:29 Soft`Soap wrote: just watched the vods and the pvp was horrible As a hardcore bisu fan I wish that I could say that Bisu won that game, but it felt more like snow lost it the fact that he scouted dts while he has a robo should've meant that he had the BO advantage and he killed of bisu's nexus but wtf he couldn't wall of his ramp properly (seriously?) and he lost way too many probes to the dt that he ALREADY KNEW was coming (not to mention that the dt first attacked the GOONS at bisu's expansion before heading to snow's base) All around snow sucked ass And I really think that CJ hit the MU's that they wanted this week hydra vs best (best zvper on CJ vs best who is not known for his pvz) skyhigh vs fanta (skyhigh the tvt sniper) and ARGUABLY bisu vs snow (although I feel that horang2 would've been a better option vs bisu, a pvp for bisu doesn't seem to favor him too much, although we haven't seen his pvt in months and we don't know if that's his weakest or not) If you go 3gate goon pressure you dont have a robo, he had to put it up while the archives was already finished. | ||
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pylonsalad
Canada649 Posts
On January 04 2012 08:55 Kipsate wrote: If you go 3gate goon pressure you dont have a robo, he had to put it up while the archives was already finished. He should have simply either walled his ramp with double forge or retreated his entire goon army to block the dt completely until obs is out. Either way he would have been behind as Bisu would have a better economy but not as behind as trading 10 or so probes for a nexus that can be rebuilt immediately. I also don't understand why Bisu didn't cancel the nexus to save 300. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
On January 04 2012 10:01 pylonsalad wrote: He should have simply either walled his ramp with double forge or retreated his entire goon army to block the dt completely until obs is out. Either way he would have been behind as Bisu would have a better economy but not as behind as trading 10 or so probes for a nexus that can be rebuilt immediately. I also don't understand why Bisu didn't cancel the nexus to save 300. You realize that attacking with the goons delayed the DT attack, right? Bisu's econ took a huge hit and Snow bought like 5 seconds of time, and only lost one dragoon and two zealots. That's a damn good trade. Then, his army was small enough that he wouldn't be able to afford a double forge block without cutting unit production completely, in which case his 4 dragoons can just get rolled over by Bisu's force. Snow's only chance was to break Bisu's natural before storm finished, but Bisu delayed the reinforcements with his 2nd DT and patiently micro'd until storm was out. | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
On January 04 2012 10:21 Lightwip wrote: SKT is making itself so easy to snipe that it's amazing. It's ok to let yourself be snipeable if you're an aircraft carrier. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On January 04 2012 12:19 hacklebeast wrote: It's ok to let yourself be snipeable if you're an aircraft carrier. Funny thing that CJ got ALL the matchup they wanted. Hydra vs BeSt in a PvZ, SkyHigh's high odd against Fantasy and Bisu vs Protoss on Outlier and still got overran. | ||
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Taekwon
United States8155 Posts
On January 04 2012 10:21 Lightwip wrote: SKT is making itself so easy to snipe that it's amazing. No, no, no Park was clearly reverse-trolling CJ coach | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On January 04 2012 11:24 xxpack09 wrote: You realize that attacking with the goons delayed the DT attack, right? Bisu's econ took a huge hit and Snow bought like 5 seconds of time, and only lost one dragoon and two zealots. That's a damn good trade. Then, his army was small enough that he wouldn't be able to afford a double forge block without cutting unit production completely, in which case his 4 dragoons can just get rolled over by Bisu's force. Snow's only chance was to break Bisu's natural before storm finished, but Bisu delayed the reinforcements with his 2nd DT and patiently micro'd until storm was out. Snow had 5 Dragoons and a Zealot after the Nexus bust (Bisu having like 3 Dragoons, 1zealot and 2DT), he could've easily afforded a double forge block and cancel it once the obs was out and still be fairly safe against any pressure. Or preemptively block the ramp at the small path near his nat with the 3 Dragoons that were around that area. He just needed to buy time for his obs to come out, and his position would've been much better .. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On January 04 2012 12:19 hacklebeast wrote: It's ok to let yourself be snipeable if you're an aircraft carrier. Only if you're up against a weak power. Otherwise, this will happen. | ||
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On January 04 2012 04:06 George_the_man wrote: no doubt u never know what result u can get when u play KT , but the Terran and Protoss lineup is not that horrible.. Stats got Wooki now who hopefully will show some good games, and Flash got Mind now so its much better than in last season It's not so much that their P and T lines are horrible so much as they are paper thin. Their T line basically IS flash. I don't get the hype people still have for mind, there was a time he was a genuinely good player with awesome solid play, but that was a long time ago, he hasn't shown any extended period of even decent play for a very very long time. Their P line IS basically Stats at the moment, who is himself very unstable. As much as I like wookie, and I do alot, I would heavily rate his chances were he have been in any other current pl team, KT just has a terrible record with players they have bought/acquired. ForGG, Luxury, Crazy-Hydra, Action were either promising players or former starleague winners somewhat over the hill when KT got them, every single one of them have fluctuated between only having decent contributions to the team for short periods or totally sucking. People on KT that perform well enough to really carry through a season tend to be homegrown talent. Which currently, generally results in Flash every season, Stats when he feels like not playing like an ass, and Hoejja suddenly playing well out of nowhere, with everyone else pretty much obtaining 50%like records if kt is lucky. | ||
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iLoveKT
Philippines3615 Posts
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George_the_man
796 Posts
On January 04 2012 17:05 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: It's not so much that their P and T lines are horrible so much as they are paper thin. Their T line basically IS flash. I don't get the hype people still have for mind, there was a time he was a genuinely good player with awesome solid play, but that was a long time ago, he hasn't shown any extended period of even decent play for a very very long time. Their P line IS basically Stats at the moment, who is himself very unstable. As much as I like wookie, and I do alot, I would heavily rate his chances were he have been in any other current pl team, KT just has a terrible record with players they have bought/acquired. ForGG, Luxury, Crazy-Hydra, Action were either promising players or former starleague winners somewhat over the hill when KT got them, every single one of them have fluctuated between only having decent contributions to the team for short periods or totally sucking. People on KT that perform well enough to really carry through a season tend to be homegrown talent. Which currently, generally results in Flash every season, Stats when he feels like not playing like an ass, and Hoejja suddenly playing well out of nowhere, with everyone else pretty much obtaining 50%like records if kt is lucky. Changing Barracks to Mind and changing empty spot to Wooki is very nice upgrade for KT who was reliable on Z line last season which was like coin flip every game , they could 0-4 or 4-0 .. Mostly thanks to Stats and Flash in winners league KT got into playoffs , this season there is no winnersleague co im sure coach Lee will do his best to find stable squad. Mind was doing pretty nice last season making it into top10 and RO8 of MSL and i believe he will show some nice play in round2 Since Wooki won last game im sure he will get another chance to play soon , maybe even vs SKT, he played really nice games i believe he will make nice surprise in this or next sesason Just because like 4 players who KT bought started slumping doesnt mean there is some kind of curse on KT and KT should not buy players or something lol.. besides i would agree only in Luxury and Forgg case , its not like CH and Action were damn good or Action had some awesome muta micro before , they just had a good run and KT had a hunch to get them . That doesnt mean Mind and Wooki will get into slump too, when i saw KT got Mind and Wooki i thought thats really smart buy by them and hopefully this will help KT to be stable team cause we really need that in that format!! | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On January 04 2012 17:05 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: It's not so much that their P and T lines are horrible so much as they are paper thin. Their T line basically IS flash. I don't get the hype people still have for mind, there was a time he was a genuinely good player with awesome solid play, but that was a long time ago, he hasn't shown any extended period of even decent play for a very very long time. Their P line IS basically Stats at the moment, who is himself very unstable. As much as I like wookie, and I do alot, I would heavily rate his chances were he have been in any other current pl team, KT just has a terrible record with players they have bought/acquired. ForGG, Luxury, Crazy-Hydra, Action were either promising players or former starleague winners somewhat over the hill when KT got them, every single one of them have fluctuated between only having decent contributions to the team for short periods or totally sucking. People on KT that perform well enough to really carry through a season tend to be homegrown talent. Which currently, generally results in Flash every season, Stats when he feels like not playing like an ass, and Hoejja suddenly playing well out of nowhere, with everyone else pretty much obtaining 50%like records if kt is lucky. + Show Spoiler [why do I respond to this..] + discount individual leagues and 1 streak in PL stats has been consistent. Don't try to argue otherwise it'd make you look like a fool. Action is unstable, CH is unstable and Hoejja is unstable but don't brand stats with unstable, it's like people trying to keep on trying to claim to "yadda yadda bisu has weird and bad pvt" and "yadda yadda fantasy is inconsistent", you see where I am getting at? Luxury won his MSL while being on KT, Action was just as unstable on eStro, CH and fOrGG has underperformed, which is the only thing I want to agree to, and each one has contributed to the team.. Why do I even bother.. | ||
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OniGami
Japan140 Posts
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sviatoslavrichter
United States164 Posts
On January 04 2012 17:05 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: It's not so much that their P and T lines are horrible so much as they are paper thin. Their T line basically IS flash. I don't get the hype people still have for mind, there was a time he was a genuinely good player with awesome solid play, but that was a long time ago, he hasn't shown any extended period of even decent play for a very very long time. Their P line IS basically Stats at the moment, who is himself very unstable. As much as I like wookie, and I do alot, I would heavily rate his chances were he have been in any other current pl team, KT just has a terrible record with players they have bought/acquired. ForGG, Luxury, Crazy-Hydra, Action were either promising players or former starleague winners somewhat over the hill when KT got them, every single one of them have fluctuated between only having decent contributions to the team for short periods or totally sucking. People on KT that perform well enough to really carry through a season tend to be homegrown talent. Which currently, generally results in Flash every season, Stats when he feels like not playing like an ass, and Hoejja suddenly playing well out of nowhere, with everyone else pretty much obtaining 50%like records if kt is lucky. CH and Action are not over the hill, and I doubt KT has paid that much for those two. ForGG and Luxury, yes, along with the KT of old acquiring big names. Wooki has been winning games. I expect to see a lot more out of him. But yes, KT has been one of the shallower P lines, and one of the thinner teams overall (always has been) but you have to remember that this due to Violet getting leukemia rather than some fault on the team's end. | ||
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sviatoslavrichter
United States164 Posts
On January 04 2012 15:17 Lightwip wrote: Only if you're up against a weak power. Otherwise, this will happen. You got it wrong man, last season this happened: + Show Spoiler [Reichstag Flag Raising] + ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Reichstag_flag_original.jpg) (And in 09-10, this happened) + Show Spoiler [Treaty of Versailles] + ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Treaty_of_Versailles%2C_English_version.jpg) | ||
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On January 04 2012 18:38 Iplaythings wrote: + Show Spoiler [why do I respond to this..] + discount individual leagues and 1 streak in PL stats has been consistent. Don't try to argue otherwise it'd make you look like a fool. Action is unstable, CH is unstable and Hoejja is unstable but don't brand stats with unstable, it's like people trying to keep on trying to claim to "yadda yadda bisu has weird and bad pvt" and "yadda yadda fantasy is inconsistent", you see where I am getting at? Luxury won his MSL while being on KT, Action was just as unstable on eStro, CH and fOrGG has underperformed, which is the only thing I want to agree to, and each one has contributed to the team.. Why do I even bother.. + Show Spoiler [you respond cos your a kt, and presume…] + Firstly, I'm going to completely disregard all starleague results in principle because even if someone wins every single individual title in a season, that does nothing to help his team. Aside from that I pretty much disagree with everything you just said. I think you confuse being unstable with being plain mediocre. Your zerg trio are just plain mediocre, they also happen to be streaky, but that's mainly because they arn't that good in general. Bad players are excused from being unstable, because frankly it often comes down to the luck of the draw anyway. Stats on the other hand is unstable. If anything for him that's a compliment, because it means he is good enough of a player that he is expected to anchor out a sort of secondary ace position of KT. His record is full of win/loss streaks of 3 or more, given the context of pl, that pretty much means he is winning 80% of games in one subseason, and barely keeping 50% the next. This is not like he's just getting lucky/unlucky, his level of play actually fluctuates between breathtaking and facepalm, and probably to a greater degree than his record. As for luxury wining his MSL, again individual leagues have no bearing on how well the team fairs on pl, he has contributed consistently to KT for all of about half a subseason before he slumped again then retired, and forgg for even less than that. As for Bisu and Fantasy, I think their reputations in both cases are pretty justified. Sure, Bisu does get results in PvT these days, but it used to be rubbish compared to his other matchups, and even now he still makes some very ... questionable.... decisions from time to time but gets away with it through mechanics and very tight play throughout the rest of the game. Fantasy has massively padded results from his individual league performance, if you look at only his proleague performance, he is the poster boy of inconsistency, even more so than Stats. Streaky, inconsistent, unstable doesn't mean they are bad, on the contrary it just means we have certain expectations of a player of their calibre, and the degree to which they meet, or fail to meet, those expectations fluctuates wildly over time. On January 04 2012 19:24 sviatoslavrichter wrote: CH and Action are not over the hill, and I doubt KT has paid that much for those two. ForGG and Luxury, yes, along with the KT of old acquiring big names. Wooki has been winning games. I expect to see a lot more out of him. But yes, KT has been one of the shallower P lines, and one of the thinner teams overall (always has been) but you have to remember that this due to Violet getting leukemia rather than some fault on the team's end. I didn't say CH or action were over the hill they would come under "were promising". But yeah given that my entire point was that KT isn't a bad team, rather that they are a fragile one pretty much means we're in total agreement aside from how we think wookie will turn out doesn't it? | ||
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