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On December 23 2011 00:17 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 22:48 Iplaythings wrote:On December 22 2011 20:23 c3rberUs wrote:On December 21 2011 10:51 Seraphic wrote:On December 21 2011 10:36 disciple wrote:
Bisu vZ peak = oov vZ peak... I like how absurd this sounds Did Bisu just tie oov's vZ peak? his vT is just 4 points away from tying with stork's vT and 5 points away from jangbi's, and yet IMO their PvT is still stronger than bisu's... Bisu haven't faced toughest competion  Multiple wins last year against Flash, Baby, Hiya, Skyhigh, Bogus, Sea, Really, Reality, FBH, Iris, ForGG, Mind, Leta. I am not sure what else you want. Stork/Jangbi have had highly dominant PvT streaks or prominent OSL runs. Bisu consistently dismantled every Terran in the league (other than Flash) for close to a year, and that run is still going.
skyhigh, really, reality, forgg and mind you can scratch off that list.
And bisu was 1-3 vs flash last year so not sure if you should count that, though I didn't mean vT specifically, take this year for instance, the best players he has beat is Action and Jaehoon, and then in spring last year the best players he beat was Jaedong and Baby (who he beat convincingly)... but after that the names I give him most credit for beating is Action (doesn't allways count as he beats himself often), Bogus, Classic and Hiya (maybe tyson.. idk).
Not saying it isn't being impressive being as retardedly consistent as he has been, I'm just saying that he hasn't exactly filled his opponents with THAT many A class and borderline S class players that he beat.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Bisu wins his PvT's nicely but somehow I feel like its missing something, Bisu's early game is good enough to put his opponent behind I think and he is able to pull wins from there. But somehow I feel like its not as inspiring as Stork or Jangbi breaking tank lines and stuff
but I am biased so w/e.
Also he hasn't (logically) faced Fantasy in a while now, and I think Fantasy WOULD destroy Bisu.
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On December 22 2011 22:48 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 20:23 c3rberUs wrote:On December 21 2011 10:51 Seraphic wrote:On December 21 2011 10:36 disciple wrote:
Bisu vZ peak = oov vZ peak... I like how absurd this sounds Did Bisu just tie oov's vZ peak? his vT is just 4 points away from tying with stork's vT and 5 points away from jangbi's, and yet IMO their PvT is still stronger than bisu's... Bisu haven't faced toughest competion
Do you know how ELO works? It's already included a level of competition that player have faced.
You will receive shittons of points for beating Flash, but far less for beating Canata.
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On December 23 2011 02:27 elagrion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 22:48 Iplaythings wrote:On December 22 2011 20:23 c3rberUs wrote:On December 21 2011 10:51 Seraphic wrote:On December 21 2011 10:36 disciple wrote:
Bisu vZ peak = oov vZ peak... I like how absurd this sounds Did Bisu just tie oov's vZ peak? his vT is just 4 points away from tying with stork's vT and 5 points away from jangbi's, and yet IMO their PvT is still stronger than bisu's... Bisu haven't faced toughest competion Do you know how ELO works? It's already included a level of competition that player have faced. You will receive shittons of points for beating Flash, but far less for beating Canata.
Is it Overall ELO or Proleague 2011-12 season ELO?
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On December 23 2011 02:27 elagrion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 22:48 Iplaythings wrote:On December 22 2011 20:23 c3rberUs wrote:On December 21 2011 10:51 Seraphic wrote:On December 21 2011 10:36 disciple wrote:
Bisu vZ peak = oov vZ peak... I like how absurd this sounds Did Bisu just tie oov's vZ peak? his vT is just 4 points away from tying with stork's vT and 5 points away from jangbi's, and yet IMO their PvT is still stronger than bisu's... Bisu haven't faced toughest competion Do you know how ELO works? It's already included a level of competition that player have faced. You will receive shittons of points for beating Flash, but far less for beating Canata.
I do, I also know that as long as you keep winning you will get high elo (doesn't matter how bad opponents, all will give him a little). And watch his matchhistory, as dominant as bisu looked he has NOT faced an abundances of A/S class players 
On December 23 2011 03:08 Too_MuchZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 02:27 elagrion wrote:On December 22 2011 22:48 Iplaythings wrote:On December 22 2011 20:23 c3rberUs wrote:On December 21 2011 10:51 Seraphic wrote:On December 21 2011 10:36 disciple wrote:
Bisu vZ peak = oov vZ peak... I like how absurd this sounds Did Bisu just tie oov's vZ peak? his vT is just 4 points away from tying with stork's vT and 5 points away from jangbi's, and yet IMO their PvT is still stronger than bisu's... Bisu haven't faced toughest competion Do you know how ELO works? It's already included a level of competition that player have faced. You will receive shittons of points for beating Flash, but far less for beating Canata. Is it Overall ELO or Proleague 2011-12 season ELO?
Overall
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On December 23 2011 03:30 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 02:27 elagrion wrote:On December 22 2011 22:48 Iplaythings wrote:On December 22 2011 20:23 c3rberUs wrote:On December 21 2011 10:51 Seraphic wrote:On December 21 2011 10:36 disciple wrote:
Bisu vZ peak = oov vZ peak... I like how absurd this sounds Did Bisu just tie oov's vZ peak? his vT is just 4 points away from tying with stork's vT and 5 points away from jangbi's, and yet IMO their PvT is still stronger than bisu's... Bisu haven't faced toughest competion Do you know how ELO works? It's already included a level of competition that player have faced. You will receive shittons of points for beating Flash, but far less for beating Canata. I do, I also know that as long as you keep winning you will get high elo (doesn't matter how bad opponents, all will give him a little). And watch his matchhistory, as dominant as bisu looked he has NOT faced an abundances of A/S class players
Obviously if you keep winning you will get high rating, because you keep winning, duh.
Simplified mathematical stuff goes like this: you can win 1 strong opponent or 2 lesser opponents to receive same amount of points, which is probabilistically same achievement.
And now breaking news: nobody gets to play only S-class players. Look at Flash's 2010 - he get where he was by constantly pwning newbs, and occasionally winning against good players. I mean he was facing MVP and Pure in semi-finals once.
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On December 23 2011 03:46 elagrion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 03:30 Iplaythings wrote:On December 23 2011 02:27 elagrion wrote:On December 22 2011 22:48 Iplaythings wrote:On December 22 2011 20:23 c3rberUs wrote:On December 21 2011 10:51 Seraphic wrote:On December 21 2011 10:36 disciple wrote:
Bisu vZ peak = oov vZ peak... I like how absurd this sounds Did Bisu just tie oov's vZ peak? his vT is just 4 points away from tying with stork's vT and 5 points away from jangbi's, and yet IMO their PvT is still stronger than bisu's... Bisu haven't faced toughest competion Do you know how ELO works? It's already included a level of competition that player have faced. You will receive shittons of points for beating Flash, but far less for beating Canata. I do, I also know that as long as you keep winning you will get high elo (doesn't matter how bad opponents, all will give him a little). And watch his matchhistory, as dominant as bisu looked he has NOT faced an abundances of A/S class players Obviously if you keep winning you will get high rating, because you keep winning, duh. Simplified mathematical stuff goes like this: you can win 1 strong opponent or 2 lesser opponents to receive same amount of points, which is probabilistically same achievement. And now breaking news: nobody gets to play only S-class players. Look at Flash's 2010 - he get where he was by constantly pwning newbs, and occasionally winning against good players. I mean he was facing MVP and Pure in semi-finals once.
What's your point? like most everything in statistics, do not use only one statistic to make conclusions. ELO mitigates the problem of win points alone, but you still have to keep in mind that playing against weaker players will of course keep your ELO higher than it maybe should.
Now, you should keep in mind the quality of other players when looking at ELO. Jaedong beating flash bisu zero and flash beating roro hoejja great, people wold say jaedong is the better player even if they had the same ELO.
And at the end, it's mostly subjective anyway, who you like and stuff (GO FREE!!!).
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People give Bisu the stink for poor individual league performance, forgetting that he has more individual league golds than any other Protoss. 
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On December 23 2011 05:26 Gescom wrote:People give Bisu the stink for poor individual league performance, forgetting that he has more individual league golds than any other Protoss.
well Bisu is just inconsistent, but when he's good he's really good, nothing to say against constant silvers though (♥Stork)
that's my troll for the day done and dusted ;P
+ Show Spoiler +it's fine
he escaped the Kkong line
and everything that rhymes is good
On December 23 2011 03:55 TheStonerer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 03:46 elagrion wrote:On December 23 2011 03:30 Iplaythings wrote:On December 23 2011 02:27 elagrion wrote:On December 22 2011 22:48 Iplaythings wrote:On December 22 2011 20:23 c3rberUs wrote:On December 21 2011 10:51 Seraphic wrote:On December 21 2011 10:36 disciple wrote:
Bisu vZ peak = oov vZ peak... I like how absurd this sounds Did Bisu just tie oov's vZ peak? his vT is just 4 points away from tying with stork's vT and 5 points away from jangbi's, and yet IMO their PvT is still stronger than bisu's... Bisu haven't faced toughest competion Do you know how ELO works? It's already included a level of competition that player have faced. You will receive shittons of points for beating Flash, but far less for beating Canata. I do, I also know that as long as you keep winning you will get high elo (doesn't matter how bad opponents, all will give him a little). And watch his matchhistory, as dominant as bisu looked he has NOT faced an abundances of A/S class players Obviously if you keep winning you will get high rating, because you keep winning, duh. Simplified mathematical stuff goes like this: you can win 1 strong opponent or 2 lesser opponents to receive same amount of points, which is probabilistically same achievement. And now breaking news: nobody gets to play only S-class players. Look at Flash's 2010 - he get where he was by constantly pwning newbs, and occasionally winning against good players. I mean he was facing MVP and Pure in semi-finals once. + Show Spoiler +What's your point? like most everything in statistics, do not use only one statistic to make conclusions. ELO mitigates the problem of win points alone, but you still have to keep in mind that playing against weaker players will of course keep your ELO higher than it maybe should.
Now, you should keep in mind the quality of other players when looking at ELO. Jaedong beating flash bisu zero and flash beating roro hoejja great, people wold say jaedong is the better player even if they had the same ELO. And at the end, it's mostly subjective anyway, who you like and stuff (GO FREE!!!).
People should keep that in mind more, that's why i always get a good chuckle out of the PR, whereas others get themselves banned over it haha
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On December 23 2011 03:46 elagrion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 03:30 Iplaythings wrote:On December 23 2011 02:27 elagrion wrote:On December 22 2011 22:48 Iplaythings wrote:On December 22 2011 20:23 c3rberUs wrote:On December 21 2011 10:51 Seraphic wrote:On December 21 2011 10:36 disciple wrote:
Bisu vZ peak = oov vZ peak... I like how absurd this sounds Did Bisu just tie oov's vZ peak? his vT is just 4 points away from tying with stork's vT and 5 points away from jangbi's, and yet IMO their PvT is still stronger than bisu's... Bisu haven't faced toughest competion Do you know how ELO works? It's already included a level of competition that player have faced. You will receive shittons of points for beating Flash, but far less for beating Canata. I do, I also know that as long as you keep winning you will get high elo (doesn't matter how bad opponents, all will give him a little). And watch his matchhistory, as dominant as bisu looked he has NOT faced an abundances of A/S class players Obviously if you keep winning you will get high rating, because you keep winning, duh. Simplified mathematical stuff goes like this: you can win 1 strong opponent or 2 lesser opponents to receive same amount of points, which is probabilistically same achievement. And now breaking news: nobody gets to play only S-class players. Look at Flash's 2010 - he get where he was by constantly pwning newbs, and occasionally winning against good players. I mean he was facing MVP and Pure in semi-finals once.
Beating Canata 5 times on maps chosen by you is better elo-wise than going 2-1 vs Flash. Go figure.
Also, if Bisu magically got to the OSL final and went 3-2 vs Fantasy, he would lose elo points. Luckily, whent you lose to noobs in the prelims you don't lose elo, so he can be called "the best elo-wise". Thanks to losing early enough. That's ridiculous. You can't be sane and deny that.
On December 23 2011 05:26 Gescom wrote:People give Bisu the stink for poor individual league performance, forgetting that he has more individual league golds than any other Protoss.
Nobody says he wasn't the current best protoss ever in his life, it's just that it was years ago.
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EPT
