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[SPL] Grand Finals: SK Telecom T1 vs KT Rolster - Page 65

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Australia1353 Posts
August 10 2011 06:06 GMT
#1281
On August 10 2011 14:28 SimonB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2011 10:57 ArvickHero wrote:
My mistake, it was a 3gate, but that is still considered quite all-in (to help you not-protoss KT fans understand, 3gate Speedlot is much like 5rax allin, except a lot easier to stop). Even two gateways before Archives is risky for Protoss nowadays, whereas it was completely standard months ago (the standard is to just make Zealots off of one Gate while using that 150 mineral to get a faster Archives instead of a 2nd Gate). After that third went down for Zero, rest of the game was a simple formality.

And his game vs Hydra was just Hydra really fucking up his Muta/Scourge control while 6 Zealots broke the shoddy simcity at the natural (1 sunken some lings vs 6-7 +1 speedlots.. we've seen this occur commonly.. like 8 months ago rofl). Once the economic damage was done, Hydra was done for because there's no easy fourth/imba simcity for Hydra to fall back on (on a map like La Mancha Hydra would've had a better chance of coming back). Stats being the solid protoss he is, doesn't epicly fuck up like many other Protosses would do and went on to win that game.

As for free, its true he hasn't had many notable wins in the vZ matchup for the past year, other than his Bo3 victory over Zero (back in '10..), but there are some notable plays he's done in his victories
On August 10 2011 06:55 TwoToneTerran wrote:
That game was almost exclusively Action showing that he might be the very worst midgame player of any a-team player. It was a needed win, but it was far from Free showing his flashes of brilliance.

I also find this quote ironic, considering how Action's ZvP recently has had a heavy emphasis on mid/Lair-game play (and has actually worked very well in many instances). And btw, that game was more of free's victory than Action's failure.

Three gate is all-in? Why, just because he delayed the Archives momentarily? What world do you live in? He didn't even cut probe production to do it.

Just one nitpick after another. You just can't bare to consider the idea that Stats played brilliantly and constantly kept pressure on Zero and Hydra. He had fantastic control and strategy in both games.

Bisu does this kind of zealot rushes routinely. Are you going to disregard half the games he plays?


Well calling it an all in might be going to far, at least by conventional definitions, but i think it is fair to say it was a pretty big to risk, and I think he knew that. I think the second stargate was exactly because he knew that if he didn't do damage, he would be in alot of trouble. In this sense, I agree that it wasn't a mindfuck so much as good foward planning incase his plan A didn't pan out the way he wanted.

As for comparing it to Bisu's zealot rushes, I think you are doing your argument a disservice by using the comparison. Bisu does his off 2 gates, and THAT already delays his archives. I'm not even convinced that it's particularly low risk, it's merely that he manages to force damage so often.
But 3 gates and building zealots off them is definitely going to set your archive timing back by a long way, and goes to show just how much of a risk Stats was taking.

All in All though, i think Stats would actually be a fairly decent choice for ace if Flash is for whatever reason not feeling up to it. I would fancy he has better than even odds vs Bisu, slightly disfavoured vs Fantasy, and somewhat disfavoured odds vs SKT zergs which i think have no way in hell of being sent out for ace. I think Flash is just all round a better ace option than Stats vs SKT, but Stats is a very valid threat vs the entire SKT line, being nearly 50% vs just about everyone on it(except like ssak, yeonjae, frotoss and by.sun who he would slaughter).
MSL, 2003-2011, RIP. OSL, 2000-2012, RIP. Proleague, 2003-2012, RIP. And then there was none... Even good things must come to an end.
Ryo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
8787 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-10 09:34:02
August 10 2011 06:34 GMT
#1282
Well, according to Coach Lee's tweet, the final is sometime next week in Seoul. He didn't specify what date. No official confirmation yet. Netizen speculation is that it's between the 17th and 19th.
영원히 엠비씨게임 히어로 팬.
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
August 10 2011 06:38 GMT
#1283
On August 10 2011 14:28 SimonB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2011 10:57 ArvickHero wrote:
My mistake, it was a 3gate, but that is still considered quite all-in (to help you not-protoss KT fans understand, 3gate Speedlot is much like 5rax allin, except a lot easier to stop). Even two gateways before Archives is risky for Protoss nowadays, whereas it was completely standard months ago (the standard is to just make Zealots off of one Gate while using that 150 mineral to get a faster Archives instead of a 2nd Gate). After that third went down for Zero, rest of the game was a simple formality.

And his game vs Hydra was just Hydra really fucking up his Muta/Scourge control while 6 Zealots broke the shoddy simcity at the natural (1 sunken some lings vs 6-7 +1 speedlots.. we've seen this occur commonly.. like 8 months ago rofl). Once the economic damage was done, Hydra was done for because there's no easy fourth/imba simcity for Hydra to fall back on (on a map like La Mancha Hydra would've had a better chance of coming back). Stats being the solid protoss he is, doesn't epicly fuck up like many other Protosses would do and went on to win that game.

As for free, its true he hasn't had many notable wins in the vZ matchup for the past year, other than his Bo3 victory over Zero (back in '10..), but there are some notable plays he's done in his victories
On August 10 2011 06:55 TwoToneTerran wrote:
That game was almost exclusively Action showing that he might be the very worst midgame player of any a-team player. It was a needed win, but it was far from Free showing his flashes of brilliance.

I also find this quote ironic, considering how Action's ZvP recently has had a heavy emphasis on mid/Lair-game play (and has actually worked very well in many instances). And btw, that game was more of free's victory than Action's failure.

Three gate is all-in? Why, just because he delayed the Archives momentarily? What world do you live in? He didn't even cut probe production to do it.

Just one nitpick after another. You just can't bare to consider the idea that Stats played brilliantly and constantly kept pressure on Zero and Hydra. He had fantastic control and strategy in both games.

Bisu does this kind of zealot rushes routinely. Are you going to disregard half the games he plays?

hahaha BW fans of all ppl should know that seconds differences can spell the difference between GG and victory. Say the all-in fails to do any damage, and then what happens? Hydra wave rolls out to abuse the late storm and probably takes out the natural (Hydra wave is effective even if Protoss gets Archives after 1Gate, what makes you think 3 would fare any better?). If Mutas, then the lack of Corsairs spell the end of Stats (he built that second Stargate as a precaution against Mutas, not to mindtrick).

Stats played well, seeing as how once he got the enormous advantage he never let go, but those playoff games were more of the Zerg's mistakes than Stats' own "brilliance" (unless he somehow convinced Hydra and Zero that one sunken would be enough [it's not], then that would be brilliant persuasion on Stats' part)

Don't even spew out shit you don't know about, like "Bisu does this kind of zealot rushes routinely" proves you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. If you had even watched any of his games, you would know that Bisu always gets that Archives off of 1 Gate (2 occasionally, if the map allows it) when doing +1 Corsair/Speedlot.
Writerptrk
Katsuge
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore7730 Posts
August 10 2011 06:51 GMT
#1284
On August 10 2011 15:34 Ryo wrote:
Well, according to Coach Lee's tweet, the final is sometime next week. He didn't specify what date. No official confirmation yet. Netizen speculation is that it's between the 17th and 19th.

thanks for the information ryo, i thought the folks were going to release the actual date today, but this will do for now :D
김태연 | 정은지 | 아이유 |  한효주 | 이민정 <3 -|||- 소녀시대 에이핑크 사랑해!
Ryo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
8787 Posts
August 10 2011 06:56 GMT
#1285
On August 10 2011 15:51 Katsuge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2011 15:34 Ryo wrote:
Well, according to Coach Lee's tweet, the final is sometime next week. He didn't specify what date. No official confirmation yet. Netizen speculation is that it's between the 17th and 19th.

thanks for the information ryo, i thought the folks were going to release the actual date today, but this will do for now :D

Yeah, Fomos initially said they were going to announce it today. I don't know the reason for the delay but I don't really mind as long as they find an appropriate venue.
영원히 엠비씨게임 히어로 팬.
Black[CAT]
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Malaysia2589 Posts
August 10 2011 07:30 GMT
#1286
Gonna show off a while :3
Spamming KT gonna win this 4-0 on my new Filco blue switch keyboard!!!!!!!!!
KT Rolster 화이팅!
You mean ESPORTS isnt a synonym for SC2? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -Proud owner of a Filco Majestouch 2 with Cherry Blue Switches- BW or SC2? Why not both?
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
August 10 2011 08:00 GMT
#1287
On August 10 2011 16:30 Black[CAT] wrote:
Gonna show off a while :3
Spamming KT gonna win this 4-0 on my new Filco blue switch keyboard!!!!!!!!!
KT Rolster 화이팅!

At the very least 4-1. As i always say "Fantasy In Finals"
KT could very well lose it 0-4 if Fantasy or Best plays Flash.
☺
saltywet
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hong Kong1316 Posts
August 10 2011 09:14 GMT
#1288
On August 10 2011 17:00 Release wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2011 16:30 Black[CAT] wrote:
Gonna show off a while :3
Spamming KT gonna win this 4-0 on my new Filco blue switch keyboard!!!!!!!!!
KT Rolster 화이팅!

At the very least 4-1. As i always say "Fantasy In Finals"
KT could very well lose it 0-4 if Fantasy or Best plays Flash.


its because fantasy never played against flash that he won all games in finals.

im pretty sure that, sadly, SKT will win the finals 4-1 or 4-2 but i believe that flash will destroy his opponent whether its F/B/B or SKT zerg
TooN
Profile Joined February 2011
1046 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-10 10:30:57
August 10 2011 10:30 GMT
#1289
Cant wait
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
August 10 2011 10:46 GMT
#1290
On August 10 2011 18:14 saltywet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2011 17:00 Release wrote:
On August 10 2011 16:30 Black[CAT] wrote:
Gonna show off a while :3
Spamming KT gonna win this 4-0 on my new Filco blue switch keyboard!!!!!!!!!
KT Rolster 화이팅!

At the very least 4-1. As i always say "Fantasy In Finals"
KT could very well lose it 0-4 if Fantasy or Best plays Flash.


its because fantasy never played against flash that he won all games in finals.

im pretty sure that, sadly, SKT will win the finals 4-1 or 4-2 but i believe that flash will destroy his opponent whether its F/B/B or SKT zerg



the last few matches between fantasy and flash have always been very intense, long, drawn-out TvTs, which could pose a serious problem for flash's wrist.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
xarthaz
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1704 Posts
August 10 2011 13:45 GMT
#1291
That wont be a problem in the final match. Flash will go all out regardless. He becomes a machine, devoid of emotions and feelings during the game
Aah thats the stuff..
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10554 Posts
August 10 2011 14:02 GMT
#1292
On August 10 2011 19:46 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2011 18:14 saltywet wrote:
On August 10 2011 17:00 Release wrote:
On August 10 2011 16:30 Black[CAT] wrote:
Gonna show off a while :3
Spamming KT gonna win this 4-0 on my new Filco blue switch keyboard!!!!!!!!!
KT Rolster 화이팅!

At the very least 4-1. As i always say "Fantasy In Finals"
KT could very well lose it 0-4 if Fantasy or Best plays Flash.


its because fantasy never played against flash that he won all games in finals.

im pretty sure that, sadly, SKT will win the finals 4-1 or 4-2 but i believe that flash will destroy his opponent whether its F/B/B or SKT zerg



the last few matches between fantasy and flash have always been very intense, long, drawn-out TvTs, which could pose a serious problem for flash's wrist.

Just as long as flash doesnt forget the motor oil mixture he prepares in that little bottle of his, he should be fine. Me thinks fantasy and bisu will be sent our first on beltway abd alternative respectively. And kt will snipe accordingly with flash and stats
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4559 Posts
August 10 2011 15:00 GMT
#1293
Aww yeaaaah. SKT1 Fighting!
hi. big fan.
4vvhiplash7
Profile Joined December 2010
South Africa392 Posts
August 10 2011 17:25 GMT
#1294
This might seem like a stupid question, and it might have been answered already, but does anybody know when the postponed finals are to be held? I have been out of contact for a while due to business... so can somebody bring me up to speed on whats the latest info regarding these finals?

Thanks!
Neo7
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States922 Posts
August 10 2011 17:32 GMT
#1295
Not enough MANLINESS in this topic. Preparing to remedy that.

[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
It takes an idiot to do cool things.
hacklebeast
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5090 Posts
August 10 2011 18:20 GMT
#1296
On August 11 2011 02:25 4vvhiplash7 wrote:
This might seem like a stupid question, and it might have been answered already, but does anybody know when the postponed finals are to be held? I have been out of contact for a while due to business... so can somebody bring me up to speed on whats the latest info regarding these finals?

Thanks!



They said they would release it two days ago and didn't. Then they said they would release it yesterday and didn't. They have said it will be released today.
Protoss: Best, Paralyze, Jangbi, Nal_Ra || Terran: Oov, Boxer, Fantasy, Hiya|| Zerg: Yellow, Zero
Mrwl
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Sweden339 Posts
August 10 2011 23:54 GMT
#1297
I'm so fucking pumped for this, the delay only made it worse..
BW heyo
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
August 11 2011 03:04 GMT
#1298
On August 10 2011 19:46 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2011 18:14 saltywet wrote:
On August 10 2011 17:00 Release wrote:
On August 10 2011 16:30 Black[CAT] wrote:
Gonna show off a while :3
Spamming KT gonna win this 4-0 on my new Filco blue switch keyboard!!!!!!!!!
KT Rolster 화이팅!

At the very least 4-1. As i always say "Fantasy In Finals"
KT could very well lose it 0-4 if Fantasy or Best plays Flash.


its because fantasy never played against flash that he won all games in finals.

im pretty sure that, sadly, SKT will win the finals 4-1 or 4-2 but i believe that flash will destroy his opponent whether its F/B/B or SKT zerg



the last few matches between fantasy and flash have always been very intense, long, drawn-out TvTs, which could pose a serious problem for flash's wrist.

yeah, he lost the exact same way to Leta, although leta played fucking brilliant.
Leta vs Flash is the new Flash vs FBH, but Flash vs Fantasy will be the new "fantasy in finals" reference.
☺
ffreakk
Profile Joined September 2010
Singapore2155 Posts
August 11 2011 03:10 GMT
#1299
On August 11 2011 08:54 Mrwl wrote:
I'm so fucking pumped for this, the delay only made it worse..


I know right? Who wouldn't be pumped about seeing Bisu ripping shits (or Flash) up?

At first i thought KT probably can take a game or two off of us, since our preparation advantage is considered gone. But the more this wait goes on the more i think we ll be winning 4-0. I even had a dream about that last night, with Fantasy winning the 4th game, and me dissing on KT losing w/o Bisu even playing. >.<
Look. Only Forward. See. Only Victory.
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
August 11 2011 03:23 GMT
#1300
On August 11 2011 12:10 ffreakk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2011 08:54 Mrwl wrote:
I'm so fucking pumped for this, the delay only made it worse..


I know right? Who wouldn't be pumped about seeing Bisu ripping shits (or Flash) up?

At first i thought KT probably can take a game or two off of us, since our preparation advantage is considered gone. But the more this wait goes on the more i think we ll be winning 4-0. I even had a dream about that last night, with Fantasy winning the 4th game, and me dissing on KT losing w/o Bisu even playing. >.<


That ain't happening my friend kt will 4-0 you instead this year !
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
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