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i don't know what amuses me more, the banner or the picture of last. however, frotoss is the only protoss i can remotely feel some sympathy for (except for maybe srats), so go frotoss :>
Stork continuing to pump dragoons out, 3 of them are at Last's main ramp
first tank out! wow takes a volley of dragoon fire, 4 dragoons still at the ramp as the CC floats over, tank sieges up and the goons are forced to leave
Stork double expanding, taking his nat and 5.5 2nd factory coming up now
robo warping in now scv scouts the 5.5, moves into the nat and sees the nexus up there with probes mining 2 probes trying to deny the scv access but it gets into the main and sees the Robo
Last has his nat up and running now robo support bay warping in shuttle is out
2 vultures doing some scouting for last Last getting a 3rd CC inside his main, he also adds an armory and academy Meanwhile vultures are roaming the map and littering it with mines
first reaver is out, it's loaded into the slow shuttle Last getting an ebay shuttle flies over vultures, reaver dropped! scarab scores 3 of the 4 vultures
On July 28 2011 19:29 sixfour wrote: stork... going ARBITERS?
Well, since it isn't the OSL and Kim Carrier isn't here...
Not to mention the fact that he got absolutely mawled last time out against Flash. Makes you wonder if he's lost a little bit of confidence in using the majestic Carriers.
Stork adding 2 more gates (9 total) vultures looking to get into that 6 o'clock, but a pylon wall stops them dead cold those vultures are eager though and they continue to fire at the pylon, pylon falls but there are dragoons protecting that expo, vultures are forced to turn away
meanwhile Stork looks to be planning an attack at 12 o'clock he has a large army of goons and speedlots
vultures raiding 6 o'clock, 3 probes down! cannons and dragoons finish off the vultures 10th gateway warping in first arbiter is out
Stork arms his ground army with +1 arbiter arrives at 12 o['clock, the ramp is blocked by 2 depots! reaver dropped! scores a tank
Stork forced to retreat meanwhile his 6 o'clock is being shelled by a single tank, a few probes lost. Dropship arrives and unloads some vultures there too, cannons dispose of the vultures and the zealots destroy the tank
first vessel is out for Last, he seems to have all his bases well covered by tanks/turrets/depots/mines
Last losing his entire force except those that are stasis'ed goons surrounding the stasis'ed force, they thaw out and the goons finish them off
vulture raid at 1 o'clock, stork warping in some cannons there, he's also warping in some gates, he must have something like 15 gates atm
vulture raid at 1 o'clock dealt with meanwhile Last has a CC floated close by to 9 o'clock, he hasn't taken it yet shuttle spots the floating CC as it tries to approach the nat, but is deflected by a turret
On July 28 2011 19:37 Masheyoon wrote: Wow does Last look like Anytime. So much so for a moment there I was certain.... but then I noticed the red tag up top.
Brilliant storms by Stork! Bisu, I hope you're taking notes!
Huh? Last, looking like ANYTIME of all people?!?? o___O;
Stork looking to try 12 o'clock, the depots are taken down! zealots rush in there, there's not much defense there! storks going to dismantle 12 o'clock
Last's sends his army out to take out 8 o'clock, 8 o'clock is down and 7 o'clock is under attack stork doesn't care though, he's going to take down 12
gates now under fire at 7 o'clock, HT/zealots popping out from the gate, awaiting more numbers before engaging
DT made at 7 o'clock, 2 tanks down by the DT, vutlures now under attack, vessel arrives and the DT is no more
stork's 7 o'clock still under attack, HT merging to form an archon arbiter looking to recall the main!
RECALL! dragoons start attacking depots and vultures stork's 7 o'clock still under fire meanwhile at the recall, Last sends out tanks to defend home ground. 4 depots down goons are now being shelled by tanks. only a handful of goons left, they'll probably die to tanks in the next minute
On July 28 2011 19:52 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote: Stork clears the entrance to 9? decides it's smarter to sit by stasis'd units and kill them off before doing anything else. I'm confused.
I think this game is going to come down to 12, neither player can really attack all that well and last should be able to eventually get the minonly at 7.
On July 28 2011 19:52 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote: Stork clears the entrance to 9? decides it's smarter to sit by stasis'd units and kill them off before doing anything else. I'm confused.
stork's newly established 12 o'clock under fire from tanks, stork rushing his army over to save it! stasis goes off again over some vultures, vessel gets an emp off at the arbiters
Last playing turret defense at 7 o'clock to prevent any recalls there
meanwhile a battle takes place close to 9 o'clock where Stork once again clears most of the tank line he's still got HT and they're casting storms! only vultures left now!
stork now doing the decent thing and attacking 9 o'clock! CC forced to lift and scvs are running
On July 28 2011 19:54 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: On the whole Last's tank lines are well spaced and well protected. He's really ensuring Stork pays for every attempted line bust.
I agree, every matrix stork's army has to run it takes more damage
LONE ARBITER ARRIVES AT 7 O'CLCK RECALLLL
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALL OF THE REcALL IS DESTROYED BY MINES/TANKS
that was painful for stork Stork has lost 12 o'clock, his macro has slowed would really love to see a resource counter right now
meanwhile Last's eco is still looking very strong stork preparing another recall? his army is clumped up real tight stasis over a vessel, it's emped, but it's stasised!
another arbiter arrives at 7, RECALL! MINES but the zealots/goons survive
now stork has an army at 7 oc'lock, last lifting his CC right away vultures and tanks are ready to defend though
another recall at 7 o'clock tanks are arriving now, sieged up. stork engages anyway, storms over the tanks but the goons are melting fast!
Stork is like "I'm going to win every major battle and play awesome with great storms and shit, but I'm not going to build any probes for my bases and just slowly lose to having slower macro.
Stork does a quick storm raid over 8 o'clock, he's also managed to take out some vessels
arbiter approaching 7 o'clock, recall! CC lifted again more goons arriving at 8 o'clock stork going to take the SW side? d-matrix over a tank! more units coming around for Stork! he's going to take the SW side! zealots rushing over! wow a lot of units dying on both sides!
More vultures arrive, Last is going to hold 8 o'clock! and 7 o'clock arghhhhh stork...
I was really impressed with Last. Defensively he was rly on his game. I just wonder whether he was a little too timid at times. I know he counter-attacked towards the end of the game, but there were definitely times where I thought he had a window to pressure Stork after coming out ahead of engagements in the middle.
omg i was watching it for like 35 minutes and went for some drinks thinking stork will loose. then i came back and what did i see? ;D this is so good he really must be god of pvt
Only watched the last half of the game when they both had like half the map each, looked like an awesome game. However I am left with a nasty feeling that Stork would have lost soundly if he played against a better opponent than Last...
On July 28 2011 20:07 Oystein wrote: Only watched the last half of the game when they both had like half the map each, looked like an awesome game. However I am left with a nasty feeling that Stork would have lost soundly if he played against a better opponent than Last...
Yeah, Stork was definitely in quite a lot of dangerous moments. :S
On July 28 2011 20:06 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: I was really impressed with Last. Defensively he was rly on his game. I just wonder whether he was a little too timid at times. I know he counter-attacked towards the end of the game, but there were definitely times where I thought he had a window to pressure Stork after coming out ahead of engagements in the middle.
Yeah, Last definitely missed his timing a couple times. Specially right after that failed recall at 7, and after the subsequent failed attack. Pushing 1시 at that time would've got him the game. Oh well... I'm happy Stork won.
On July 28 2011 20:07 Oystein wrote: Only watched the last half of the game when they both had like half the map each, looked like an awesome game. However I am left with a nasty feeling that Stork would have lost soundly if he played against a better opponent than Last...
Last had a great micro and decent macro, but lost becouse of avoiding decisive actions against stork's expantions.
On July 28 2011 20:04 Ryo wrote: Awesome game, you could hear the audience in the background too
Yeah, they definitely showed up to show their support for MBC! Fuck yeah loud audience.
Agreed, and how good were the commentators? They're always great, but there were times in that game when they were taking it to another level
Yeah, they really seemed to step up their game today! They showed more enthusiasm than usual, which is like... Commentators on crack compared to other sports.
Except for Spanish football commentators. They're the only ones who can compete on an equal footing with the MBC commentators imo.
On July 28 2011 20:06 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote: WTF is that Jaedong? ROFLMAO
This is old stuff, dude!
It took me some time to figure it that was his old commercial with nanashin looping the funny part over and over. That and the really corny song tricked me into thinking it was some kind of new stunt.
On July 28 2011 20:06 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote: WTF is that Jaedong? ROFLMAO
This is old stuff, dude!
It took me some time to figure it that was his old commercial with nanashin looping the funny part over and over. That and the really corny song tricked me into thinking it was some kind of new stunt.
Oh, I see. Still funny nonetheless, as you observed :3
On July 28 2011 19:37 Masheyoon wrote: Wow does Last look like Anytime. So much so for a moment there I was certain.... but then I noticed the red tag up top.
Brilliant storms by Stork! Bisu, I hope you're taking notes!
Huh? Last, looking like ANYTIME of all people?!?? o___O;
Well... doesn't he? I mean... look (thumbnail):
Without the glasses I'd say they're pretty similar. But maybe I'm just tired. ._.
EDIT: OMG! I DID NOT NOTICE THE PERSON IN THAT VIDEO WAS JAEDONG. D=
On July 28 2011 19:37 Masheyoon wrote: Wow does Last look like Anytime. So much so for a moment there I was certain.... but then I noticed the red tag up top.
Brilliant storms by Stork! Bisu, I hope you're taking notes!
Huh? Last, looking like ANYTIME of all people?!?? o___O;
Well... doesn't he? I mean... look (thumbnail):
Without the glasses I'd say they're pretty similar. But maybe I'm just tired. ._.
lmao, he seriously looks like a little fatter anytime with glasses hhaha
This game was real close indeed.Stork would have lost surely if he didn't break Last's two expansion in the bottom left.It also was a race against time,if Last lasted a bit longer defending his 2 expansions Stork would have been mined out.Great,great game!
On July 28 2011 19:37 Masheyoon wrote: Wow does Last look like Anytime. So much so for a moment there I was certain.... but then I noticed the red tag up top.
Brilliant storms by Stork! Bisu, I hope you're taking notes!
Huh? Last, looking like ANYTIME of all people?!?? o___O;
Well... doesn't he? I mean... look (thumbnail):
Without the glasses I'd say they're pretty similar. But maybe I'm just tired. ._.
EDIT: OMG! I DID NOT NOTICE THE PERSON IN THAT VIDEO WAS JAEDONG. D=
...no, not really? I mean, have you seen Last in bigger images and Anytime? They look nothing like each other. o___O;;
On July 28 2011 20:14 VGhost wrote: That game was more of an "if you have time", but voted "yes" anyway because Stork won. Heh.
How is that game a "if you have time" there were magnificent storms, some real clutch emps, mines taking out recalls, that's the stuff of movies/hollywood
not to mention all that tank line breaking/beautifully spread terran defense
Stork wasn't up in bases at the end, whoever said that. And he didn't have good macro, or I'm not sure what exactly was up with him, but even when he had lost bottom left, the observers showed his mineral line at his top bases and they were pretty sparse of probes. I don't know what happened to probes that would have been transferred from his mined-out bases, but they weren't top left.
Stork kept himself in the game with great tactics, very guerrilla at times. But I feel like if he had properly saturated top right he would've won a lot easier, he came out on top of every major battle.
On July 28 2011 20:16 Turbovolver wrote: Stork wasn't up in bases at the end, whoever said that. And he didn't have good macro, or I'm not sure what exactly was up with him, but even when he had lost bottom left, the observers showed his mineral line at his top bases and they were pretty sparse of probes. I don't know what happened to probes that would have been transferred from his mined-out bases, but they weren't top left.
Stork kept himself in the game with great tactics, very guerrilla at times. But I feel like if he had properly saturated top right he would've won a lot easier, he came out on top of every major battle.
He lost a bunch of them when he lost 12 o'clock. They didnt show his rally points often. He didnt seem to have good macro, but somehow he always had units available. So it's pretty likely there was something we couldn't see.
It seems that this 3 hatch den oppening is becoming more and more popular.Think protoss should come back to gateway first oppenings to pressure the zerg early if this trend continues.
On July 28 2011 20:20 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Come on Frotoss! You're capable of great PvZ at times. Hopefully tonight is one of those times.
Am I missing something? He's only played 1 official game PvZ and he lost it.
Maybe I'm on drugs, but I recall him winning a PvZ impressively fairly recently. I thought it was in one of the individual leagues, but as I said, I could just be on drugs!
HT popping out now zealots have +1 a few hydras caught by zealots, storm casted over them, the hydras manage to kill the HT before they die
Fight to control the center! zealots engaging with hydras Roro adding lurkers into the mix he's got a queen's nest morphing in core is spinning to give those sairs that +1 edge
Afro starting his 3rd at 11.5 min only meanwhile Roro adds another hatch (7th?) in his main
Paralyze getting an observer out to do some scouting and to watch out for lurkers
meanwhile a sair is slowly killing an overlord 5 hydras march out, up the ramp and find a whole lot of protoss and turn back
Roro's nat is well defended by sunkens and spread out lurkers shuttle headed for 5 o'clock overlord spots it, DT unloaded and it's stuck in the corner, it moves pass the overlord towards the mineral line but there's another overlord there kills a drone, hydras arrive to defend against the DT
On July 28 2011 20:20 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Come on Frotoss! You're capable of great PvZ at times. Hopefully tonight is one of those times.
Am I missing something? He's only played 1 official game PvZ and he lost it.
Maybe I'm on drugs, but I recall him winning a PvZ impressively fairly recently. I thought it was in one of the individual leagues, but as I said, I could just be on drugs!
Oh, It seems he beat RorO fairly recently during the OGN dual tournament. Completely unaware.
On July 28 2011 19:37 Masheyoon wrote: Wow does Last look like Anytime. So much so for a moment there I was certain.... but then I noticed the red tag up top.
Brilliant storms by Stork! Bisu, I hope you're taking notes!
Huh? Last, looking like ANYTIME of all people?!?? o___O;
Well... doesn't he? I mean... look (thumbnail):
Without the glasses I'd say they're pretty similar. But maybe I'm just tired. ._.
EDIT: OMG! I DID NOT NOTICE THE PERSON IN THAT VIDEO WAS JAEDONG. D=
...no, not really? I mean, have you seen Last in bigger images and Anytime? They look nothing like each other. o___O;;
Roro taking another expo at 6.5 min only but it's forced to cancel as the protoss force arrives
roro now loading up units into some overlrods, the overlords fly by 9 o'clock and towards the nat, lurker dropped at the nat mineral line more zerglings and lurkers dropped in the main
Afro's 9 o'clock also under attack by a lurker
cracklings take out a gateway afro rushing his army back several buildings now under attack in the main
zerglings taking out pylons, roro getting more zerglings up Afro cleaning up all his drops, except the main where there are still 2 zerglings hammering away at the pylon
zealot dropped at 5.5, shuttle dropping 5 o'clock, drones run for it! HT dropped! storms killing decent number of drones
hydras/llings/lurkers doing a small attack at 12 o'clock, Afro defends well, but he storms his own observer
3 zealots trying to attack 6.5, but they run into a field of lurkers
another drop inside afro's main, swarm goes off, plague over some units
shuttle relatiation at 5 o'clock WOW half a control group of scourge chase the shuttle HT dropped and casts storm to try and save the shuttle, but the scourge manage to take it down
close to 9 o'clock zerglings battle goons/zealots, storms go off and rip the zerglings apart
Paralyze should have started making reavers way earlier.They are very good for defending bases and your other army can move more frealy around the map.
another plague over the protoss army hydras/lurkers marching foward as the Protoss force retreats
swarm casted at the nat, lurkers burrow under it, storms/archons take the lurkers out Afrotoss not making much progress this map, he's only taking out small army, but none of the bases.
shuttle movement, once again the shuttle is deflected by scourge Roro taking the fight to Afro, he casts swarm and sends his units in, but Paralyze holds it off
On July 28 2011 20:42 Z3kk wrote: I suppose we're going to see some SvZ now!! :D
I'm not sure that's such a good thing, I remember an interview where Stork wasn't very confident in PvZ like he is in PvT. His PvZ is like KTY's PvT. You just never know
Well, that game was interesting. Afrotoss lost his timing with the goon push and Roro held it greatly. After that failed initial Hydra bust, I was sure its over for Roro, but I think he didn't commit as much as it seemed. Anyways, great game but nothing special.
On July 28 2011 20:42 Z3kk wrote: I suppose we're going to see some SvZ now!! :D
I'm not sure that's such a good thing, I remember an interview where Stork wasn't very confident in PvZ like he is in PvT. His PvZ is like KTY's PvT. You just never know
Except that Bisu's PvT is bordering on being very respectable nowadays - him peaking and all.
I wonder if Bisu actually feels differently about PvT now, or whether it's still a MU he'd rather avoid.
On July 28 2011 20:42 Z3kk wrote: I suppose we're going to see some SvZ now!! :D
I'm not sure that's such a good thing, I remember an interview where Stork wasn't very confident in PvZ like he is in PvT. His PvZ is like KTY's PvT. You just never know
Except that Bisu's PvT is bordering on being very respectable nowadays - him peaking and all.
I wonder if Bisu actually feels differently about PvT now, or whether it's still a MU he'd rather avoid.
Bisu hates siege tanks for all of eternity, so I imagine that he still wants to avoid playing PvT, lol.
On July 28 2011 20:42 Z3kk wrote: I suppose we're going to see some SvZ now!! :D
I'm not sure that's such a good thing, I remember an interview where Stork wasn't very confident in PvZ like he is in PvT. His PvZ is like KTY's PvT. You just never know
Well, yeah--I mean, that much is obvious...I remember the exact same interview. He said that he just doesn't really understand the matchup, or something along those lines.
I just want to see him play a PvZ, though, to prove that he is capable of doing it well...I hope. ><
On July 28 2011 20:42 Z3kk wrote: I suppose we're going to see some SvZ now!! :D
I'm not sure that's such a good thing, I remember an interview where Stork wasn't very confident in PvZ like he is in PvT. His PvZ is like KTY's PvT. You just never know
Except that Bisu's PvT is bordering on being very respectable nowadays - him peaking and all.
I wonder if Bisu actually feels differently about PvT now, or whether it's still a MU he'd rather avoid.
Yeah that interview was a while ago, his PvT is getting better, but it's still iffy for me. I need to see him in a BoX against a decent terran to see. But I bet you he still feels the same about PvT because there aren't corsairs used in that match up haha
On July 28 2011 20:42 Z3kk wrote: I suppose we're going to see some SvZ now!! :D
I'm not sure that's such a good thing, I remember an interview where Stork wasn't very confident in PvZ like he is in PvT. His PvZ is like KTY's PvT. You just never know
Except that Bisu's PvT is bordering on being very respectable nowadays - him peaking and all.
I wonder if Bisu actually feels differently about PvT now, or whether it's still a MU he'd rather avoid.
Bisu hates siege tanks for all of eternity, so I imagine that he still wants to avoid playing PvT, lol.
As a Toss fan I have mixed feelings about them. When they're set and well-protected they're just pure hell, but I can't get enough of mine drags and speedlot-goon pushes breaking tank lines.
Is it just me, or is Stork putting his pylons sort of far from his base? iirc they were a bit closer to his main, right? (just the first one, I suppose)
On July 28 2011 20:42 Z3kk wrote: I suppose we're going to see some SvZ now!! :D
I'm not sure that's such a good thing, I remember an interview where Stork wasn't very confident in PvZ like he is in PvT. His PvZ is like KTY's PvT. You just never know
Except that Bisu's PvT is bordering on being very respectable nowadays - him peaking and all.
I wonder if Bisu actually feels differently about PvT now, or whether it's still a MU he'd rather avoid.
Bisu hates siege tanks for all of eternity, so I imagine that he still wants to avoid playing PvT, lol.
As a Toss fan I have mixed feelings about them. When they're set and well-protected they're just pure hell, but I can't get enough of mine drags and speedlot-goon pushes breaking tank lines.
I hate playing against tanks; even when I offrace and play Terran, I almost always go bio and SK Terran and never make them blasted tanks, lmfao. I only use them when I want the game to end quickly, haha.
On July 28 2011 20:42 Z3kk wrote: I suppose we're going to see some SvZ now!! :D
I'm not sure that's such a good thing, I remember an interview where Stork wasn't very confident in PvZ like he is in PvT. His PvZ is like KTY's PvT. You just never know
Except that Bisu's PvT is bordering on being very respectable nowadays - him peaking and all.
I wonder if Bisu actually feels differently about PvT now, or whether it's still a MU he'd rather avoid.
Yeah that interview was a while ago, his PvT is getting better, but it's still iffy for me. I need to see him in a BoX against a decent terran to see. But I bet you he still feels the same about PvT because there aren't corsairs used in that match up haha
Yep, well said. The problem we have is that we don't get to see many BoX with Bisu as he keeps getting knocked out too early
KTY certainly loves his Sairs - I can remember him going on about them in interview especially.
On July 28 2011 20:03 Hyde wrote: Stork holds on Last types out well done STORK FUCK EAYH
Poll: Recommend Set 1?
Yes (83)
95%
No (2)
2%
If you've got nothing else to do (2)
2%
87 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 1?
(Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): If you've got nothing else to do
i want to vote yes for this but its at 69 votes right now and i kinda dont wanna break that
LOL, nice
Roro going pool first Stork getting his forge first, starts his nexus and lays down a cannon after he still hasn't scouted yet but his build is safe enough
zerglings sent out gateway started to complete the gate/forge wall
Roro starting a hatch at the nat
zerglings arrive at Stork's nat and is greeted with cannon fire. Roro taking his 3rd at 7 o'clock
On July 28 2011 20:42 Z3kk wrote: I suppose we're going to see some SvZ now!! :D
I'm not sure that's such a good thing, I remember an interview where Stork wasn't very confident in PvZ like he is in PvT. His PvZ is like KTY's PvT. You just never know
Except that Bisu's PvT is bordering on being very respectable nowadays - him peaking and all.
I wonder if Bisu actually feels differently about PvT now, or whether it's still a MU he'd rather avoid.
Bisu hates siege tanks for all of eternity, so I imagine that he still wants to avoid playing PvT, lol.
As a Toss fan I have mixed feelings about them. When they're set and well-protected they're just pure hell, but I can't get enough of mine drags and speedlot-goon pushes breaking tank lines.
I hate playing against tanks; even when I offrace and play Terran, I almost always go bio and SK Terran and never make them blasted tanks, lmfao. I only use them when I want the game to end quickly, haha.
hatin' on the most efficient unit ever created in starcraft fukc yeah.
Core warping in at the nat Stork's probe avoiding zerglings, manages to get into the main to have a peak, did he see the hydra den at the nat? probe dies in the main
zerglings rushing back over to the nat to stop any further probes coming out
stargate in the making inside the main zealot is out, it's headed for 6 o'clock, 3 lings chasing after it Stork's probe sees hydrsa moving out
Hydras arrive at the nat! ONLY 1 CANNON UP! 3 more warping in probes pulled! zealot defending against the hydras, another cannon down probes are dying left and right 1 cannon finished, 3 more coming
No, hdyras are all up in stork's face 3 hatch hydra breaking stork more probes coming from the main 4 hydras remain at the nat, 3 now as the probes chase them
a few more hydras en route to stork's nat adun warped in for stork hydras at the nat attacking the forge
1 zealot chasing those 3 hydras in the main, hydra continue to take out probes stork warpingin more cannons at his nat to stop the hydras from getting through doesn't look good
gateway at the nat falls Roro getting his lair forge being rewarped at the nat Stork lost too many probes in that attack he's nat mineral line looking decent but his main mineral line is looking very bare
more hydras lining up outside Stork's nat forge under fire again stork getting his 6th cannon up now
4th hatch started at Roro's nat stork getting his templar archive up
On July 28 2011 21:02 nok.jp wrote: Hydra Hydra Hydra Hyda Hydra... im sick of it.
I think it's pretty clear that the tosses need to change their FFE ways and try some 1 base play instead. That and not go nexus first and only make 1 cannon...
On July 28 2011 21:04 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: That's right. Fast expo should not be tolerated in any way.
Somebody will figure out how to counter this 3 hatch hydra business which will prompt zergs to do less 3 hatch hydra which will prompt toss to go FFE again etc. etc. It's not the end of the world, just the current PvZ metagame.
On July 28 2011 21:05 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: You can't blame the Zerg players from cashing in while they can. It's up to the Toss players to find a solution to this prob.
exactly
bisu has proven time and time again that pvz is a very viable match up. a player of stork's calibre should not be losing to hydra busts especially when scouted.
It's not a good thing right now,but the metagame in zvp shifting to hydra den first can be good in the long run for protoss.If someone can come up with appropriate oppening for the protoss that is.I always though FE was a little bit favorite for zergs.
Stork deserved to lose. Bad play. And seriously, wtf is it with the late probe pull???
Oh, the Hydras that I already scouted are attacking my cannon(s). Lets keep mining. Oh, the Hydras won who would have thought? And my cannons are gone, NOW is a good time to pull my probes. Because why should I fight with both together when I can just as well leave the cannons unguarded and then fight with Probes alone.
3 hat hydra most dangerous, hit some cannons before storm and destroy econ, take out gateway and forge to slow down protoss. Zerg should do it every game. Scout or not is not the main issue, they just have micro the hydras.
On July 28 2011 21:04 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: That's right. Fast expo should not be tolerated in any way.
Somebody will figure out how to counter this 3 hatch hydra business which will prompt zergs to do less 3 hatch hydra which will prompt toss to go FFE again etc. etc. It's not the end of the world, just the current PvZ metagame.
well its not only PvZ FE that pisses me off. All other non-mirror match-ups are the same shit. Somehow we need to understand that going FE sometimes can cause you a game too, because this is not bullet-proof. I think some flexibility and variety in strategy wouldn't be bad at all.
On July 28 2011 21:07 Iplaythings wrote: I remember the start of the season why Zealot sair was raping zergs left and right
Now this 3 hatch hydra into econ play once u done enough damage
It might help if P would be willing to go back to a little safer play. Almost all P are playing only 1 early cannon at this point, where 2 are sometimes (usually?) necessary just to get enough "buffer" to get others up if hydras come.
That, or building zealots in time (like Paralyze did). That would help too.
Core is spinning, Afo getting a nexus up at the nat 2 marines deny the probe of any information
Last starting a CC at the nat vulture made and sent out
Afro getting up his 2nd gate bunker made at the nat, dragoon arrives and the marines run into the bunker vulture arrives at the nat, tries to get up the ramp but a goon blocks its way
Paralyze looking to establish his own 3rd at 6 o'clock 3rd gateway warping in for Afro 2nd factory under construction for Last, he's also getting an ebay up
Last starting to set up shop between his 3rd and nat, he's starting to put down turrets there dragoons moving about disarming mines with the aid of an observer
Observer flies over Last's 3rd 4th gateway warping in for Afro, he's also getting a stargate up
meanwhile Last is getting an armory and an academy observer flies through the main, spots a 3rd factory in the making for Last
starports are blinking Last moving his tanks/vultures out! goons backing away! slowlots enter into the scene! goons picking off tanks tanks siege up FLANK! wow goons close in on the tanks, terran forces are dead
Last bringing tanks/goliaths to Afro's 3 o'clock goons and carriers greet them, tanks siege up and a few goons die carriers being micro'ed against the goliaths, zealots arrive but they don't have speed shuttle brought in also
last setting up shop! turrets are going up next to the tanks leg speed kicks in and the zealots engage! a few tanks taken out carriers helping out but it looks like Last is here to stay
Afro with a lot of gates in his main okay it's confirmed last has 9 o'clock up now as his 4th
carriers continue to fight off goliaths at 3 o'clock, tanks are inching closer, they'll be able to shell the nexus from there goliaths run in as Afro abandons 3 o'clock
carriers can't decide whether they want to defend 3 o'clock or not! goons arriving at 3 o'clock where there's only ONE tank shelling the nexus, too late, the goons arrive just as the nexus falls
goons and carriers fighting goliaths/vultures/tanks at the center Last winning that battle Afro needs some storms to soften up that metal Last is 1 base ahead of Afro T_T
Last walling off his 12 o'clock just as protoss forces arrive to attack buy last some time to bring his units in
tanks arrive and siege up, protoss units stuck at the bridge, carriers no where to be seen?!? where's the support? carriers are staying at home to defend 6 o'clock meanwhile goons continue to clear some mines
Last now focusing on taking down 3 o'clock, carriers arrive to take out the tanks, nexus is deep in the red and won't last long against anotehr attack
carriers return to defend 6 o'clock Last now starting to build turrets close to afro's 6 6 o'clock falls carriers avoiding goliaths Afro only on 2 mining bases
Carriers take a lot of fire from goliaths! 1 carrier down meanwhile DTs attacking Last's 12 o'clock in an attempt to stop his powerful economy
On July 28 2011 21:31 zewker wrote: and that's why carriers just doesn't work
it's why you don't build carriers on la mancha
grow a pair and use arbiters
La Mancha is a carrier map...
my mistake. don't watch much pvt.
it looks really open though
Well I wouldn't know why exactly (ridges, and a lot of inaccessible space around the middle making terran walk far to chase them down I guess) but P go carriers on it a lot. This loss probably has more to do with Last getting away with 3 bases off 1.5 fact...
On July 28 2011 21:31 zewker wrote: and that's why carriers just doesn't work
it's why you don't build carriers on la mancha
grow a pair and use arbiters
La Mancha is a carrier map...
my mistake. don't watch much pvt.
it looks really open though
Well I wouldn't know why exactly (ridges, and a lot of inaccessible space around the middle making terran walk far to chase them down I guess) but P go carriers on it a lot. This loss probably has more to do with Last getting away with 3 bases off 1.5 fact...
Also Paralyze didn't get zeal speed (probably trying to get carriers out faster?), then stopped building zeals at all for like 5 minutes. Would have made a huge difference since he ended up going carrier-goon vs tank-goliath.
what on earth was paralyze doing that game? U are suppose to be aggressive with ur carriers when there is no immidiate threat of an attack, instead he just hovered around his own part of the map all game even tho he knew Last was on at least 4 bases and he lost waaaaay to much trying to defend his 4th.
On July 28 2011 21:47 Motivate wrote: i love how there's things that TL never likes to let go. last and jaehoon's bad dye jobs, ggaemo's gasp, frozen's past name of cuteangel
Robo warping in now, Stork's core is also spinning for that range
Last adding a ms to his 1st factory, 2nd factory coming up Stork sending out another probe, he also adds his 2nd and 3rd gate armory coming up for last
4th gate warping in for Stork now scan goes off inside Stork's main, Last spots the robo and gates
observatory warped in. Stork taking his 3rd at 7 o'clock
3rd CC started at Last's nat protoss forces moving out, they're lead by an observer ebay started for Last Last is producing scvs from his 3rd CC at the nat
observer checking out what last has fleet beacon coming up for Stork
Why? He could most likely outplay Last with something a lot more standard, and he's always been the best tank line pusher around - why not play to his strengths?!
On July 28 2011 21:54 Turbovolver wrote: Stork going carriers =/
Why? He could most likely outplay Last with something a lot more standard, and he's always been the best tank line pusher around - why not play to his strengths?!
LOL
He doesn't even need the carriers or an expansion hahahahaha
On July 28 2011 21:54 Turbovolver wrote: Stork going carriers =/
Why? He could most likely outplay Last with something a lot more standard, and he's always been the best tank line pusher around - why not play to his strengths?!
Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch buster, hmmm.
On July 28 2011 21:58 Koka-kola wrote: Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch buster, hmmm.
I don't know that Roro is necessary less skilled, he's the anti-team killer for a reason and I'd bet he is higher ELO.
But yeah, Last really showed a lot more than Roro did tonight.
On July 28 2011 21:58 Koka-kola wrote: Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch buster, hmmm.
i beg to differ, Roro is a underrated solid Class A player. he's hated in TL because most people put him in their anti in FPL
On July 28 2011 21:58 Koka-kola wrote: Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch buster, hmmm.
On July 28 2011 21:58 Koka-kola wrote: Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch lucker, hmmm.
Roro is actually pretty decent. If you take away his games vs Bisu and Jaedong hes actually got pretty good stats in ZvP\ZvZ. He usually loses against the best players, but hes a solid mid level player and I at least was not surprised he went 2-0 with the current shape of Stork.
edit : im slow lol 3 people posting the same thing before me
On July 28 2011 21:58 Koka-kola wrote: Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch buster, hmmm.
I am confused how you not only assume Roro is bad, but also assume Last is good. It's like you just mixed up who's who.
To be fair, all Protoss players should be wary of the 3-hatch bust from Wemade zergs. I can't count the number of times I have seen either Shine or Roro hydra bust a protoss that failed to make enough cannons or defend properly.
On July 28 2011 21:58 Koka-kola wrote: Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch lucker, hmmm.
Roro is actually pretty decent. If you take away his games vs Bisu and Jaedong hes actually got pretty good stats in ZvP\ZvZ. He usually loses against the best players, but hes a solid mid level player and I at least was not surprised he went 2-0 with the current shape of Stork.
edit : im slow lol 3 people posting the same thing before me
I should have put it this way: "Why a player with a more desent games today should be out, than a toss hydrabuster."
On July 28 2011 21:58 Koka-kola wrote: Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch lucker, hmmm.
Roro is actually pretty decent. If you take away his games vs Bisu and Jaedong hes actually got pretty good stats in ZvP\ZvZ. He usually loses against the best players, but hes a solid mid level player and I at least was not surprised he went 2-0 with the current shape of Stork.
edit : im slow lol 3 people posting the same thing before me
I should have put it this way: "Why a player with a more desent games today should be out, than a toss hydrabuster."
Yeah, Roro does better.
Roro is a good player. That he didn't need to show it today is the fault of Paralyze and Stork. I think you're implying that roro only has good stats because of hydrabusts, and I don't think that's right.
On July 28 2011 21:58 Koka-kola wrote: Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch lucker, hmmm.
Roro is actually pretty decent. If you take away his games vs Bisu and Jaedong hes actually got pretty good stats in ZvP\ZvZ. He usually loses against the best players, but hes a solid mid level player and I at least was not surprised he went 2-0 with the current shape of Stork.
edit : im slow lol 3 people posting the same thing before me
I should have put it this way: "Why a player with a more desent games today should be out, than a toss hydrabuster."
Yeah, Roro does better.
Roro is an unambiguously better player than both Last and Paralyze. The best two players advanced today.
On July 28 2011 21:58 Koka-kola wrote: Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch lucker, hmmm.
Roro is actually pretty decent. If you take away his games vs Bisu and Jaedong hes actually got pretty good stats in ZvP\ZvZ. He usually loses against the best players, but hes a solid mid level player and I at least was not surprised he went 2-0 with the current shape of Stork.
edit : im slow lol 3 people posting the same thing before me
I should have put it this way: "Why a player with a more desent games today should be out, than a toss hydrabuster."
Yeah, Roro does better.
Roro is a good player. That he didn't need to show it today is the fault of Paralyze and Stork. I think you're implying that roro only has good stats because of hydrabusts, and I don't think that's right.
No, just as I said, its interesting, how you can just slide through without much work, and the other guy sweating the pants off himself and still gets zero. That is quite ironic. We all know that Roro will probably choke on the next stage as he always does. Just a thought
On July 28 2011 21:58 Koka-kola wrote: Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch lucker, hmmm.
Roro is actually pretty decent. If you take away his games vs Bisu and Jaedong hes actually got pretty good stats in ZvP\ZvZ. He usually loses against the best players, but hes a solid mid level player and I at least was not surprised he went 2-0 with the current shape of Stork.
edit : im slow lol 3 people posting the same thing before me
I should have put it this way: "Why a player with a more desent games today should be out, than a toss hydrabuster."
Yeah, Roro does better.
Roro is a good player. That he didn't need to show it today is the fault of Paralyze and Stork. I think you're implying that roro only has good stats because of hydrabusts, and I don't think that's right.
No, just as I said, its interesting, how you can just slide through without much work, and the other guy sweating the pants off himself and still gets zero. That is quite ironic. We all know that Roro will probably choke on the next stage as he always does. Just a thought
Yeah you can say that, in the end you never know
He beat Bisu in the proleague, watch that game and call him bad again. Notice how similar that was to the game vs Paralyze except he fucking owned him and it was close vs Bisu I dare you
On July 28 2011 21:58 Koka-kola wrote: Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch lucker, hmmm.
Roro is actually pretty decent. If you take away his games vs Bisu and Jaedong hes actually got pretty good stats in ZvP\ZvZ. He usually loses against the best players, but hes a solid mid level player and I at least was not surprised he went 2-0 with the current shape of Stork.
edit : im slow lol 3 people posting the same thing before me
I should have put it this way: "Why a player with a more desent games today should be out, than a toss hydrabuster."
Yeah, Roro does better.
Roro is a good player. That he didn't need to show it today is the fault of Paralyze and Stork. I think you're implying that roro only has good stats because of hydrabusts, and I don't think that's right.
No, just as I said, its interesting, how you can just slide through without much work, and the other guy sweating the pants off himself and still gets zero. That is quite ironic. We all know that Roro will probably choke on the next stage as he always does. Just a thought
You're probably right about roro choking but he often brings awesome games even if he loses them. Some epics doom drops and whatever, Roro can be very entertaining. Today wasn't like this unfortunately, but he still got through.
But yeah, TODAY Roro played nothing impressive, Last, on the other hand, played really well. But in the long time, I think we'll benefit more from Roro's games than Last's. Maybe I'm totally wrong but Last is not entertaining very often.
On July 28 2011 21:58 Koka-kola wrote: Interesting though, how a less skilled player (Roro) would go 2-0 instead of Last, who actually deserved to go through more than a 3 hatch lucker, hmmm.
Roro is actually pretty decent. If you take away his games vs Bisu and Jaedong hes actually got pretty good stats in ZvP\ZvZ. He usually loses against the best players, but hes a solid mid level player and I at least was not surprised he went 2-0 with the current shape of Stork.
edit : im slow lol 3 people posting the same thing before me
I should have put it this way: "Why a player with a more desent games today should be out, than a toss hydrabuster."
Yeah, Roro does better.
Roro is a good player. That he didn't need to show it today is the fault of Paralyze and Stork. I think you're implying that roro only has good stats because of hydrabusts, and I don't think that's right.
No, just as I said, its interesting, how you can just slide through without much work, and the other guy sweating the pants off himself and still gets zero. That is quite ironic. We all know that Roro will probably choke on the next stage as he always does. Just a thought
Yeah you can say that, in the end you never know
He beat Bisu in the proleague, watch that game and call him bad again. Notice how similar that was to the game vs Paralyze except he fucking owned him and it was close vs Bisu I dare you
I saw the game, yeah forgot about the fact, Roro exploited the map nicely. He is a fare middle class player, that I think never plays like Stork today:|, but he doesn't play exceptionally well too. So any solid strategy or trick will dissect him like butter (remember Stats). I don't know Last, as I haven't seen games of him. And would rather see a rookie again than an old good Roro whos capabilities we all know.
On July 28 2011 22:40 TwoToneTerran wrote: Last isn't a rookie, he's been around for 3 years and has been mediocre to bad the whole time.
Not all players break out quickly, case in point: KIller
Yes, but in this case, Roro's only been around like 4 months more than Last. Last just A: wasn't good and B: was on an STX team that has, for the last 3 years, had plenty of depth and no reason to play a player as bad as he is. Roro's a better player right now and that's all I said. I'm not sure how good he might be if he somehow turns out like killer matters.
One thing I really hate is a terran expanding egregiously off of a few tanks simply because he plays terran. And I enjoyed seeing Stork deciding to make units rather than expanding to kill that gay build.
Now if only protoss could stop the old tried and true hydra bust that seems to work way too often, we might actually see some tosses late in the SLs.
Thank God Stork won, my Internet went down the moment he was sandwiching Last's units while Last was floating his CC to the 3rd position. My only thought was "Last you scanned 4 gates and still built a CC off 2 Facts so you deserve this shit"
On July 28 2011 22:40 TwoToneTerran wrote: Last isn't a rookie, he's been around for 3 years and has been mediocre to bad the whole time.
Not all players break out quickly, case in point: KIller
It seems like it should be obvious, but it's worth noting that regular PL time seems to really help most players: sometimes the first year, but often the second year of mass games - I'm thinking recently we've seen Killer, Jaehoon, ggaemo, Bogus. This would seem to indicate that you want to make sure rookies get playing time early in their careers - which might be why CJ keeps winning (even if their recent playoffs have been catastrophic).
His first game vs Last I thought was messy. Several times I thought he would be able to get a decisive finish with streaming zealot reinforcements (like Best) but over and over again his goon/temps died. His recalls were also sub-par.
Hopefully he'll return to his top form for this MSL/OSL and upcoming Proleague.
Well this 3Hatch Hydra trend is getting scarily effective. Guess we're going to have to wait another couple of months before progamers learn to effectively adjust against it :\
On July 29 2011 06:07 ArvickHero wrote: Well this 3Hatch Hydra trend is getting scarily effective. Guess we're going to have to wait another couple of months before progamers learn to effectively adjust against it :\
What can P do against it anyway? Skip the stargate and just go for a blind bust of some kind? Reaver first opening, with obs shortly after?
It feels like storm is always a little late with the hydras in the front. You get one storm and then the rest clean house.
More 1 base openings? It just feels like the Z's economy explodes then and zealots are so slow in the beginning, they just get shut down.
I just hate how effective it seems to be.
New PvZ revolution!! go go go JangBi, Bisu, Stork, Kal, Best...one of you PLEASE become a Bonjwa We need a Bro-Toss up in those ranks!
Hey, side question...
As someone who didn't get in until the Bisu/Savior days....wasn't NalRa supposed to be incredible? I've gone back hunting for VODs but I don't know which are the best to showcase his skill and some are just plain gone now. Was he not Bonjwa material?
On July 28 2011 22:40 TwoToneTerran wrote: Last isn't a rookie, he's been around for 3 years and has been mediocre to bad the whole time.
Not all players break out quickly, case in point: KIller
It seems like it should be obvious, but it's worth noting that regular PL time seems to really help most players: sometimes the first year, but often the second year of mass games - I'm thinking recently we've seen Killer, Jaehoon, ggaemo, Bogus. This would seem to indicate that you want to make sure rookies get playing time early in their careers - which might be why CJ keeps winning (even if their recent playoffs have been catastrophic).
I think KT owes a lot of its success toward sticking with their rookies and young players.
Stats and Violet were quite shitty for around a year or more when they first debuted, but KT kept playing them, and they probably have them to thank for last year's title. Stats has come even further as a top 5 protoss, IMO.
Hoejja (not that he's super young anymore) has been one of the worst players over the last two years, but owe so much of their recent success to him. The same can be said for Roo/Perfective.
Man, that last game was pure brilliance by Stork. Making Last focus on trying to get that third ready, while he's sneaking some goons to his back, teasing him with the dropship just because one thing isn't enough to distract a man's focus. Even the micro at the beginning was pure foreplay of what was going to come: dancing probes and marines; ranged versus particle-beam. Not a single drop of blood or scrap of probe was lost during that event, a little taste of what had to come..
EPT
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