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On May 04 2011 01:07 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 00:48 whiterabb1t wrote:On May 04 2011 00:15 Scaramanga wrote:On May 03 2011 22:00 Ryo wrote:
Jaedong must be the favorite for the MSL after this. Sure, lets just ignore the past 3 finals they've played which clearly shows flash's dominance at the biggest stage because of one proleauge win. Sounds good to me. With this logic Savior would have remained unbeaten until now, perhaps for his 100th gold. But Bisu crushed him. And he disappeared completely. All I'm saying, things happen, random seemingly insignificant things in the grander statistical scale. But sometimes they are the most important. And look at JD's form recently. Surely even a Flash fan realizes JD is scary righht now. No, by that logic Savior would've remained the favourite against anyone (until something like his final vs Bisu happened). That was the point. Flash dropping a game to JD in PL, or even the game in the group of death, isn't comparable to losing Bo5 in a Starleague final. JD is quickly becoming scary as fuck again though.
PL/Group of Death or Bo5 it matters only in context. Having said that if you know physics and complex systems this things are mere fluctuations. It could happen anywhere and the result would be the same. That response was to point out the arbitrariness of the "one prolegue win" to conditions that just happen because they just happen. And you reply with your analogy that was what I was pointing out actually.
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On May 04 2011 01:06 Toadily wrote:
lol, why was TC temp banned? did he go sleep after making the thread? Spoiler polls in OP.
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 Today went well for my FPL team!!
OZ FIGHTING!
On May 03 2011 23:50 Kipsate wrote:So I am torrenting the vods right now(Dling )(for Both KT OZ and STX MBC), uh how do I add this current torrent to the torrent uploader?I tried following the Teamliquid one but if I create a new torrent won't only like 10 people seed it?(Hence the dl speed will be very slow). Is there a way to add the torrent that I am using right now?That way people will be able to download it much faster. Edit: lol my KT Oz torrent speed is insane. I don't get this part specifically:
can you just post it in the thread for now?
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To those who were trying to say lucky win for JD; Flash went for a totally risky build with the fast vessel. He would have surrendered control of his rax even with a half-decent irradiate, his marine count was just too low and JD would have split fairly quickly like usual.... see how one-sided it was after that, one irridiate would NOT have somehow turned it around. Can't get away with a build like that against JD imo, he's inevitably going to punish it. If it wasn't finished by the muta/ling it would have been soon after. He even had his 3rd up at this point with zero pressure at all, and lings streaming into the base with almost no defence.
Poor game by Flash and he looked very frustrated, not seen him like that for quite a while. Bad build, and way overstimming (count the number of stims while JD was muta harassing). It's a total contrast to the games where Flash was aggressive and keeping JD to 2bases for ages. Good to see JD not resorting to any weird builds as well now, the lurker stuff was not working.. leave that to ZerO/Calm.
Edit: just watched the Dear game too. Good to see one of the new Oz protoss line win against one of the top P's around. Oz is looking good imo. There's a bit of depth forming in what normally looks like a shallow team.
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Today,
it was snowing and raining at the same time and i was freezing and my son cried
i tripped and my leg is bleeding
forgot to do my taxes and will get fined or shot or whatever
still, best day ever
ggs
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On May 03 2011 21:46 Mooncat wrote:
So there's nothing Flash could have done, is that what you're saying?
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Flash had a perfectly justified reason for going for that strategy. People need to stop criticizing Flash's build choice and stop calling him an idiot simply because he lost the game with that build. Jaedong's success in the last several ZvT games has relied heavily on effectively using mutaling to kill off groups of MnM. Flash was trying to nullify that by going for quick science vessels. That build has worked several times in the past, so how is Flash an idiot for choosing that build? He has even beaten Jaedong with that build. Should Flash just play standard every single game? If his strategy worked, no doubt every Flash fan would go nuts about what a genius Flash is and they would be able to see the rationale behind that build.
Flash obviously isn't a moron for choosing to go for a fast SV build, but people are correct when they say Flash would have had a much better chance of taking that game if he had opted for something more "standard".
How do you know that? If Flash hypothetically went for a 4rax or something and lost in the exact same way as in the MSL game, do you think that no one is going to call Flash an idiot for "being too predictable and going for a build that JD has lately been perfect at dealing with"? It's absolutely delusional to think that Flash lost that game just because of the build and the irradiate. That build required some excellent defense during that vulnerable period, and Flash fell short. Plain and simple.
Anyway, the fast SV opening can work(vs. mutas) if you get off a good irradiate. If that wasn't the case, no one would play it with 2hatch muta and 3hatch muta being so common in ZvT. That being said, of course it would have made a big difference if that irradiate would have landed on a full hp mutalisk - again, why would you even choose such a build otherwise?
Because in most cases, the zerg would never have been able to do that much damage to begin with. You make it sound like every zerg gets into the position that Jaedong was in before that first irradiate, and that the irradiate decides the game right there. Flash lost the game even before that irradiate. He simply should not have allowed Jaedong to do as much damage as he did. Flash simply got outplayed in the sense that Jaedong's muta micro was excellent whereas Flash's defense was not good enough. If you're going to criticize anything, criticize Flash's execution of that build. Even though that irradiate lasted less than a second, Jaedong was already in the process of fanning his mutas out and removing the irradiated muta, and at the end of the game Jaedong's muta ling army was still huge. If the irradiate did land on a full hp muta, Flash at best would've been able to survive that attack but not without being completely crippled and in a losing position. Although even that's an optimistic guess. It's completely delusional to think that Flash would not have lost that game if it landed on a full hp muta. I seriously suggest you to take a look at the VOD when it comes out. Flash had 4 marines against about 8 mutas, causing him to pull another 4 marines from the bunker, leaving his natural completely exposed to the dozen or so lings.
Jaedong obviously played a solid game, made no mistakes(as far as the game went) and he deserves this win. However, he did nothing special or outstanding. That's all people are saying I think. You want people(primarily Flash fans) to stop acting like Flash was a moron that lost this game all by himself. Fine, then you should stop acting like Jaedong totally outplayed Flash left and right while there's nothing he could have done.
Flash did get outplayed. I never said there wasn't anything Flash could have done. I'm saying that people should stop acting like the game result was decided by that irradiate and the build order choice. Talk about how Flash could've played better (not stim excessively, for starters) instead of calling him a moron because he lost with an unorthodox build.
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Btw i agree with the guy who felt Jaedong always was capable of winning in a standard even game with Flash, even during 2010. The thing was, Flash in a lot of the games had an economic advantage. In the one series where JD had equal builds in most of the games, he won it - the first MSL they had. Not EVERY game of course is like this, but if you look through their games you will notice a pattern.
Gummy analyzed this point well a few pages back. 14CC is an inherent advantage where even 3 hatch before pool cannot actually match it (and it's more risky to do blindly). We all know how little advantages roll into wins when it comes to the very top players, and Flash has had this little advantage right from build order in many games between them.
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I'm just reading the results for the first time now. I lol'd
I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL'D
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JD finally broke 2300 for his ZvT
yay
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On May 03 2011 23:43 Black[CAT] wrote:Wow, she's pretty! This is 2nd time I saw her coming to watch proleague.. I think the 1st time I saw her was in MSL? So cool, starcraft can attact hotties in Korea....
I dunno about you but she looks like a ghost O_O
I hope its just the lighting otherwise her skin tone just ruins her face =(
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Wow, that was unexpected.
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On May 04 2011 03:12 FractalsOnFire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 23:43 Black[CAT] wrote:On May 03 2011 23:35 Spica wrote:Oh yeah, racing queen Ryu Ji Hye also came to watch to watch Flash play - she's a Flash fan. + Show Spoiler + Wow, she's pretty! This is 2nd time I saw her coming to watch proleague.. I think the 1st time I saw her was in MSL? So cool, starcraft can attact hotties in Korea.... I dunno about you but she looks like a ghost O_O
Hm, are you sure? Makes me wonder whether she can call for nukes as well.
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Holy WTF LOL ANYTIME VS REACH XD
Gz Oz for the 4-0, dayum Stats / CH shouldn't have lost >.>
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On May 03 2011 21:50 Legatus Lanius wrote:
so i guess this means jaedong breaks the elusive 2300 zvt elo barrier
Yeah, he did. It's quite amazing, but even after so many years, Jeadong is probably currently at his best ever against Terran. In my opinion it is a testimony to his dedication. It seems that he took his three (or more?) consecutive series losses against Flash very seriously indeed.
It brings back memories of the 2007 ProLeague. Back then I read somewhere that "Jaedong is ZvT." That's when I started paying attention to his games and results. But over the years his amazing ZvZ run and his seeming invincibility against Protoss overshadowed his ZvT skills.
Lee Jae Dong fighting!
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United States10328 Posts
omg anytime vs reach wooooow
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On May 04 2011 03:41 Simplistik wrote:B]It brings back memories of the 2007 ProLeague. Back then I read somewhere that "Jaedong is ZvT." That's when I started paying attention to his games and results. But over the years his amazing ZvZ run and his seeming invincibility against Protoss overshadowed his ZvT skills.
Lee Jae Dong fighting!
Yep, and I remember where; it was the Power Rank for October 2007:
"Jaedong is ZvT. If someone asked me to define ZvT while I was watching Jaedong play, I would simply point to the screen and say, “That’s it right there. That’s the definition of the matchup.” Jaedong is 10-0 in his last ten ZvTs, with wins over Boxer, Xellos, Light, and Hwasin."
During the midst of his 13 - 0 run (Sea, Sea, Boxer, Leta, Yooi, Yooi, Justin, Frozen, Light, XellOs, XellOs, DarkElf, Nada) between July and October.
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On May 04 2011 03:41 Simplistik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 21:50 Legatus Lanius wrote:
so i guess this means jaedong breaks the elusive 2300 zvt elo barrier Yeah, he did. It's quite amazing, but even after so many years, Jeadong is probably currently at his best ever against Terran. In my opinion it is a testimony to his dedication. It seems that he took his three (or more?) consecutive series losses against Flash very seriously indeed. It brings back memories of the 2007 ProLeague. Back then I read somewhere that "Jaedong is ZvT." That's when I started paying attention to his games and results. But over the years his amazing ZvZ run and his seeming invincibility against Protoss overshadowed his ZvT skills. Lee Jae Dong fighting!
this is just like Flash. Flash was considered a monster TvZ, then you look at his TvT and TvP records :O
Edit: these two guys are just scary as fk 
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I wake up looking for an interview and nobody translated yet T_T. Hope someone gets on it soon <3.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/u74AF.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/LyPj9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/zBgc3.jpg)
