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Kal alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way
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Group D tv ratings gonna have more than finals lol
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On April 11 2011 08:53 Archers_bane wrote:
Group D tv ratings gonna have more than finals lol
esp if the finals will be NonJD zerg vs. another NonJD zerg
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
The silver lining is that 2 TBLS are nearly guaranteed to advance from Group D.
Hey, remember Flash's insurance group last season?
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On April 11 2011 10:14 419 wrote:
The silver lining is that 2 TBLS are nearly guaranteed to advance from Group D.
Hey, remember Flash's insurance group last season?
But the best scenario would be all 4 TBLS's and Sea advancing, and why counting out Sea? 
As we saw last season, anything can happen, and Sea advancing wouldn't be that much of a stretch
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i dunno, sea's been having alot of trouble with good zergs recently, so i dont think he will get past jaedong and THEN flash
i think the most likely case is flash going 2-0 and possibly 2-1 bisu or 2-1 jaedong. although its kinda even i think bisu would be the favourite over jaedong. but if sea beats bisu, jaedong's chances look a bit better to advance
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On April 11 2011 05:40 Wohmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:08 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 00:11 Wohmfg wrote:On April 10 2011 22:39 ibreakurface wrote:On April 10 2011 16:22 419 wrote:It's just bad for the tournament. If it were possible for Bisu, Flash AND Jaedong to all advance if they played amazingly enough, I wouldn't say this. The burden would be on them to prove their merit. Last season: Flash out in Ro32 Bisu out in Ro16 They have only themselves to blame. If Flash had gotten a seed then group D(eath) would have never happened. Do you propose blatantly using name value as a criterion when it comes to the seeding process? Then things become no better than an invitational. Imo, Flash should be treated no better than anyone else who scrubbed out in Ro32. He is being treated differently though, he's put in group D. As far as competition goes this is pathetic from both great and hydra, so selfish and insecure. How do you mean, selfish? Because they tried to knock out the best of the competition early? You think progamers have some kind of duty to create fair games and entertainment for the fans? They play to win in order to make a living. What should they have done differently, exactly, to ensure that they weren't being selfish? They followed the rules given to them anyway, so don't complain about hydra and great. I'll complain all I want. I'm not saying that the choice isn't in their best interest, or that they are breaking any rules. I'm saying they are selfish and insecure. The early stages in any tourney shouldn't have the top 3 players eliminating each other, it's simply bad for the sport and tournament. They are damaging the tournament so they can win an empty victory. Therefore they are selfish, which is not respectable. What you're saying is that progamers should make it harder to get wins in order to entertain the fans. You're saying that progamers should play by a certain set of unwritten rules. When Bisu decided not to change group, he was being selfish. Did you lose respect for him? Did you lose respect for every single progamer who has ever made a decision in their career which helped them at the expense of entertainment? That's every progamer. All of those players are there to win the tournament. Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match in order to make a more epic finals match? If anything, blame the MSL selection process. Otherwise, I'd love to see the rules that you think players should abide by that aren't enforced by the MSL. It's not a matter of respect for you though, it's just that you're angry that a good player will get knocked out early and you need someone to hate. Wow you can read me like a book! Not.
Players do shit for the sake of entertainment all the time, it is there job after all. Boxer was/is all about making entertaining games, flash stopped turtling every game because people said it was boring.
I'm saying what great and hydra did tarnished the tournament, and when a player damages the Esports scene to give themselves a small edge it is pathetic. No hydra and great didn't break any rules, no they shouldn't be punished, it is just dishonorable. How can you deny that?
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On April 11 2011 10:59 ibreakurface wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:40 Wohmfg wrote:On April 11 2011 05:08 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 00:11 Wohmfg wrote:On April 10 2011 22:39 ibreakurface wrote:On April 10 2011 16:22 419 wrote:It's just bad for the tournament. If it were possible for Bisu, Flash AND Jaedong to all advance if they played amazingly enough, I wouldn't say this. The burden would be on them to prove their merit. Last season: Flash out in Ro32 Bisu out in Ro16 They have only themselves to blame. If Flash had gotten a seed then group D(eath) would have never happened. Do you propose blatantly using name value as a criterion when it comes to the seeding process? Then things become no better than an invitational. Imo, Flash should be treated no better than anyone else who scrubbed out in Ro32. He is being treated differently though, he's put in group D. As far as competition goes this is pathetic from both great and hydra, so selfish and insecure. How do you mean, selfish? Because they tried to knock out the best of the competition early? You think progamers have some kind of duty to create fair games and entertainment for the fans? They play to win in order to make a living. What should they have done differently, exactly, to ensure that they weren't being selfish? They followed the rules given to them anyway, so don't complain about hydra and great. I'll complain all I want. I'm not saying that the choice isn't in their best interest, or that they are breaking any rules. I'm saying they are selfish and insecure. The early stages in any tourney shouldn't have the top 3 players eliminating each other, it's simply bad for the sport and tournament. They are damaging the tournament so they can win an empty victory. Therefore they are selfish, which is not respectable. What you're saying is that progamers should make it harder to get wins in order to entertain the fans. You're saying that progamers should play by a certain set of unwritten rules. When Bisu decided not to change group, he was being selfish. Did you lose respect for him? Did you lose respect for every single progamer who has ever made a decision in their career which helped them at the expense of entertainment? That's every progamer. All of those players are there to win the tournament. Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match in order to make a more epic finals match? If anything, blame the MSL selection process. Otherwise, I'd love to see the rules that you think players should abide by that aren't enforced by the MSL. It's not a matter of respect for you though, it's just that you're angry that a good player will get knocked out early and you need someone to hate. Wow you can read me like a book! Not. Players do shit for the sake of entertainment all the time, it is there job after all. Boxer was/is all about making entertaining games, flash stopped turtling every game because people said it was boring. I'm saying what great and hydra did tarnished the tournament, and when a play damages the Esports scene to give themselves a small edge it is pathetic. There is a line, and hydra/great crossed it. At what point do you draw the line? Is savior not an asshole for match fixing because hey, he was just doing what benefits him!
I think this might "revolutionize" the way things are played out in the near future. Now that there will be more motivation for the finalists to be like "Kekeke, now I can do whatever I want!" This spurts more competitions among players in order to make better groups for themself in the near future. Plus a group of death can really determine who is the best of the best.
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On April 11 2011 10:59 ibreakurface wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:40 Wohmfg wrote:On April 11 2011 05:08 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 00:11 Wohmfg wrote:On April 10 2011 22:39 ibreakurface wrote:On April 10 2011 16:22 419 wrote:It's just bad for the tournament. If it were possible for Bisu, Flash AND Jaedong to all advance if they played amazingly enough, I wouldn't say this. The burden would be on them to prove their merit. Last season: Flash out in Ro32 Bisu out in Ro16 They have only themselves to blame. If Flash had gotten a seed then group D(eath) would have never happened. Do you propose blatantly using name value as a criterion when it comes to the seeding process? Then things become no better than an invitational. Imo, Flash should be treated no better than anyone else who scrubbed out in Ro32. He is being treated differently though, he's put in group D. As far as competition goes this is pathetic from both great and hydra, so selfish and insecure. How do you mean, selfish? Because they tried to knock out the best of the competition early? You think progamers have some kind of duty to create fair games and entertainment for the fans? They play to win in order to make a living. What should they have done differently, exactly, to ensure that they weren't being selfish? They followed the rules given to them anyway, so don't complain about hydra and great. I'll complain all I want. I'm not saying that the choice isn't in their best interest, or that they are breaking any rules. I'm saying they are selfish and insecure. The early stages in any tourney shouldn't have the top 3 players eliminating each other, it's simply bad for the sport and tournament. They are damaging the tournament so they can win an empty victory. Therefore they are selfish, which is not respectable. What you're saying is that progamers should make it harder to get wins in order to entertain the fans. You're saying that progamers should play by a certain set of unwritten rules. When Bisu decided not to change group, he was being selfish. Did you lose respect for him? Did you lose respect for every single progamer who has ever made a decision in their career which helped them at the expense of entertainment? That's every progamer. All of those players are there to win the tournament. Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match in order to make a more epic finals match? If anything, blame the MSL selection process. Otherwise, I'd love to see the rules that you think players should abide by that aren't enforced by the MSL. It's not a matter of respect for you though, it's just that you're angry that a good player will get knocked out early and you need someone to hate. Wow you can read me like a book! Not. Players do shit for the sake of entertainment all the time, it is there job after all. Boxer was/is all about making entertaining games, flash stopped turtling every game because people said it was boring. I'm saying what great and hydra did tarnished the tournament, and when a player damages the Esports scene to give themselves a small edge it is pathetic. No hydra and great didn't break any rules, no they shouldn't be punished, it is just dishonorable. How can you deny that?
Well, the whole point of the seeded players being in fixed positions is how the system is supposed to prevent these kind of incidences. In Group D's case, I don't think we could complain about it. It's not like Great and Hydra are obligated to anything. And it IS Flash and Bisu's fault for not being seeded.
Sure, its not the most honorable thing seed number 1 and 2 should be doing. But they, at the same time, aren't doing anything bad either. They're just playing it smart.
As an audience, I always wanted to see a group like this. My only regret is the missing Stork.
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has there ever been a longer thread for a group selection ceremony? LOLLLL
tbh, if hydra and great were really doing this just for entertainment,
they should have put two of TBLS in each group so that at least there is a chance that two of the TBLS can advance. that way, no one can blame anyone but TBLS if any of the TBLS don't make it out of their group. putting 3 means one of TBLS HAS to drop out. and given the fact the fourth isn't some scrub but SEA, who's a A- tier (or A, but I consider fantasy A and TBLS - S), this is cutting into the entertainment value of the latter stages of the tournament too much.
ppl argue that "oh progamers are pros, it's about winning, not entertaining"
well yes, that's true within the game. progamers should always play with the strategy that gives them the win, even if that means 14cc turtling every game.
but given how young the esports industry is and as a result how volatile it is, outside of the game, is it too much to ask hydra/great to help grow interest in esports by promoting entertainment? clearly, they themselves aren't providing it. and yes, group D is very entertaining, but let's think long term.
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On April 11 2011 16:43 hmmm... wrote:
has there ever been a longer thread for a group selection ceremony? LOLLLL
tbh, if hydra and great were really doing this just for entertainment,
they should have put two of TBLS in each group so that at least there is a chance that two of the TBLS can advance. that way, no one can blame anyone but TBLS if any of the TBLS don't make it out of their group. putting 3 means one of TBLS HAS to drop out. and given the fact the fourth isn't some scrub but SEA, who's a A- tier (or A, but I consider fantasy A and TBLS - S), this is cutting into the entertainment value of the latter stages of the tournament too much.
ppl argue that "oh progamers are pros, it's about winning, not entertaining"
well yes, that's true within the game. progamers should always play with the strategy that gives them the win, even if that means 14cc turtling every game.
but given how young the esports industry is and as a result how volatile it is, outside of the game, is it too much to ask hydra/great to help grow interest in esports by promoting entertainment? clearly, they themselves aren't providing it. and yes, group D is very entertaining, but let's think long term.
How can you consider Stork S-class but not Fantasy?
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On April 11 2011 17:35 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 16:43 hmmm... wrote:
has there ever been a longer thread for a group selection ceremony? LOLLLL
tbh, if hydra and great were really doing this just for entertainment,
they should have put two of TBLS in each group so that at least there is a chance that two of the TBLS can advance. that way, no one can blame anyone but TBLS if any of the TBLS don't make it out of their group. putting 3 means one of TBLS HAS to drop out. and given the fact the fourth isn't some scrub but SEA, who's a A- tier (or A, but I consider fantasy A and TBLS - S), this is cutting into the entertainment value of the latter stages of the tournament too much.
ppl argue that "oh progamers are pros, it's about winning, not entertaining"
well yes, that's true within the game. progamers should always play with the strategy that gives them the win, even if that means 14cc turtling every game.
but given how young the esports industry is and as a result how volatile it is, outside of the game, is it too much to ask hydra/great to help grow interest in esports by promoting entertainment? clearly, they themselves aren't providing it. and yes, group D is very entertaining, but let's think long term. How can you consider Stork S-class but not Fantasy?
Exactly
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On April 11 2011 17:35 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 16:43 hmmm... wrote:
has there ever been a longer thread for a group selection ceremony? LOLLLL
tbh, if hydra and great were really doing this just for entertainment,
they should have put two of TBLS in each group so that at least there is a chance that two of the TBLS can advance. that way, no one can blame anyone but TBLS if any of the TBLS don't make it out of their group. putting 3 means one of TBLS HAS to drop out. and given the fact the fourth isn't some scrub but SEA, who's a A- tier (or A, but I consider fantasy A and TBLS - S), this is cutting into the entertainment value of the latter stages of the tournament too much.
ppl argue that "oh progamers are pros, it's about winning, not entertaining"
well yes, that's true within the game. progamers should always play with the strategy that gives them the win, even if that means 14cc turtling every game.
but given how young the esports industry is and as a result how volatile it is, outside of the game, is it too much to ask hydra/great to help grow interest in esports by promoting entertainment? clearly, they themselves aren't providing it. and yes, group D is very entertaining, but let's think long term. How can you consider Stork S-class but not Fantasy?
My thoughts also, both Fantasy, Stork and Bisu have these inconsistency with in them. hmmmm
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On April 11 2011 10:59 ibreakurface wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 05:40 Wohmfg wrote:On April 11 2011 05:08 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 00:11 Wohmfg wrote:On April 10 2011 22:39 ibreakurface wrote:On April 10 2011 16:22 419 wrote:It's just bad for the tournament. If it were possible for Bisu, Flash AND Jaedong to all advance if they played amazingly enough, I wouldn't say this. The burden would be on them to prove their merit. Last season: Flash out in Ro32 Bisu out in Ro16 They have only themselves to blame. If Flash had gotten a seed then group D(eath) would have never happened. Do you propose blatantly using name value as a criterion when it comes to the seeding process? Then things become no better than an invitational. Imo, Flash should be treated no better than anyone else who scrubbed out in Ro32. He is being treated differently though, he's put in group D. As far as competition goes this is pathetic from both great and hydra, so selfish and insecure. How do you mean, selfish? Because they tried to knock out the best of the competition early? You think progamers have some kind of duty to create fair games and entertainment for the fans? They play to win in order to make a living. What should they have done differently, exactly, to ensure that they weren't being selfish? They followed the rules given to them anyway, so don't complain about hydra and great. I'll complain all I want. I'm not saying that the choice isn't in their best interest, or that they are breaking any rules. I'm saying they are selfish and insecure. The early stages in any tourney shouldn't have the top 3 players eliminating each other, it's simply bad for the sport and tournament. They are damaging the tournament so they can win an empty victory. Therefore they are selfish, which is not respectable. What you're saying is that progamers should make it harder to get wins in order to entertain the fans. You're saying that progamers should play by a certain set of unwritten rules. When Bisu decided not to change group, he was being selfish. Did you lose respect for him? Did you lose respect for every single progamer who has ever made a decision in their career which helped them at the expense of entertainment? That's every progamer. All of those players are there to win the tournament. Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match in order to make a more epic finals match? If anything, blame the MSL selection process. Otherwise, I'd love to see the rules that you think players should abide by that aren't enforced by the MSL. It's not a matter of respect for you though, it's just that you're angry that a good player will get knocked out early and you need someone to hate. Wow you can read me like a book! Not. Players do shit for the sake of entertainment all the time, it is there job after all. Boxer was/is all about making entertaining games, flash stopped turtling every game because people said it was boring.I'm saying what great and hydra did tarnished the tournament, and when a player damages the Esports scene to give themselves a small edge it is pathetic. No hydra and great didn't break any rules, no they shouldn't be punished, it is just dishonorable. How can you deny that?
I'd love source on the bolded statement.
You say that great and Hydra crossed the line. The line seems to be based on your emotions and it's hypocritical. Every time a player makes a selfish move that hurts the entertainment value for the fans, they are being dishonourable and lose respect in your eyes. That's every progamer.
Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match against an S-class favourite in order to make a more epic finals match? Because esports is about ENTERTAINMENT, not WINNING, right? To try and get to the finals is selfish, because there are better players who will give you better games and be more entertaining.
Hydra and great had no obligations and no hidden ambiguous duties. I'd still like to see the exact set of unwritten rules you think Hydra and great should have been playing by though.
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On April 11 2011 18:32 Wohmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 10:59 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 05:40 Wohmfg wrote:On April 11 2011 05:08 ibreakurface wrote:On April 11 2011 00:11 Wohmfg wrote:On April 10 2011 22:39 ibreakurface wrote:On April 10 2011 16:22 419 wrote:It's just bad for the tournament. If it were possible for Bisu, Flash AND Jaedong to all advance if they played amazingly enough, I wouldn't say this. The burden would be on them to prove their merit. Last season: Flash out in Ro32 Bisu out in Ro16 They have only themselves to blame. If Flash had gotten a seed then group D(eath) would have never happened. Do you propose blatantly using name value as a criterion when it comes to the seeding process? Then things become no better than an invitational. Imo, Flash should be treated no better than anyone else who scrubbed out in Ro32. He is being treated differently though, he's put in group D. As far as competition goes this is pathetic from both great and hydra, so selfish and insecure. How do you mean, selfish? Because they tried to knock out the best of the competition early? You think progamers have some kind of duty to create fair games and entertainment for the fans? They play to win in order to make a living. What should they have done differently, exactly, to ensure that they weren't being selfish? They followed the rules given to them anyway, so don't complain about hydra and great. I'll complain all I want. I'm not saying that the choice isn't in their best interest, or that they are breaking any rules. I'm saying they are selfish and insecure. The early stages in any tourney shouldn't have the top 3 players eliminating each other, it's simply bad for the sport and tournament. They are damaging the tournament so they can win an empty victory. Therefore they are selfish, which is not respectable. What you're saying is that progamers should make it harder to get wins in order to entertain the fans. You're saying that progamers should play by a certain set of unwritten rules. When Bisu decided not to change group, he was being selfish. Did you lose respect for him? Did you lose respect for every single progamer who has ever made a decision in their career which helped them at the expense of entertainment? That's every progamer. All of those players are there to win the tournament. Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match in order to make a more epic finals match? If anything, blame the MSL selection process. Otherwise, I'd love to see the rules that you think players should abide by that aren't enforced by the MSL. It's not a matter of respect for you though, it's just that you're angry that a good player will get knocked out early and you need someone to hate. Wow you can read me like a book! Not. Players do shit for the sake of entertainment all the time, it is there job after all. Boxer was/is all about making entertaining games, flash stopped turtling every game because people said it was boring.I'm saying what great and hydra did tarnished the tournament, and when a player damages the Esports scene to give themselves a small edge it is pathetic. No hydra and great didn't break any rules, no they shouldn't be punished, it is just dishonorable. How can you deny that? I'd love source on the bolded statement. You say that great and Hydra crossed the line. The line seems to be based on your emotions and it's hypocritical. Every time a player makes a selfish move that hurts the entertainment value for the fans, they are being dishonourable and lose respect in your eyes. That's every progamer. Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match against an S-class favourite in order to make a more epic finals match? Because esports is about ENTERTAINMENT, not WINNING, right? To try and get to the finals is selfish, because there are better players who will give you better games and be more entertaining. Hydra and great had no obligations and no hidden ambiguous duties. I'd still like to see the exact set of unwritten rules you think Hydra and great should have been playing by though.
Well IMO, it's not really about Entertainment vs Winning. It's about hydra and great wanting to make another group like the TBLS, which is fine IF you surpass them. What happened here was that they, Hydra and great, dodge them while claiming that they are going to make another coll/gosu progamer group. Which to me is, bullshit.
If you want to surpass these great players, beat them, not dodge them.
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I need not mention group D...
but FBH is BLACK in the picture lol.
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On April 11 2011 19:13 Wala.Revolution wrote:
I need not mention group D...
but FBH is BLACK in the picture lol.
LOL I was JUST going to post about that aswell. you give me shivers man, anyway why is he black? lol
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can anyone tell me where i can actually find like a time table for this? so i know when the games are on, and i live in Australia so i dont get it on TV, wat website can i watch it on? :D
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On April 11 2011 21:14 henrydog1 wrote:
can anyone tell me where i can actually find like a time table for this? so i know when the games are on, and i live in Australia so i dont get it on TV, wat website can i watch it on? :D
There will pop up a MSL thread here on Tl.net which will have all the matches posted.
And you can always watch the games here, there is always some streamer that is streaming from OGN and MBC.
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On April 11 2011 21:03 Deekin[ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 19:13 Wala.Revolution wrote:
I need not mention group D...
but FBH is BLACK in the picture lol. LOL I was JUST going to post about that aswell. you give me shivers man, anyway why is he black? lol
I explained this elsewhere...
It has to do with FBH's Korean nickname(흑느님), which has to do with his dark skin tone.
For the caricature, this gets exaggerated into portraying him with extremely dark skin.
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EPT
