EPTOn April 12 2011 10:02 Release wrote:
Should Calm have forfeited that Ro4 match against Jaedong in the Avalon MSL?
Should Yellow have foreited to avoid a ZvZ final?
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2011 08:54 ibreakurface wrote:
"The line seems to be based on your emotions and it's hypocritical"
I don't think you are understanding me. I'm aware this is based on my emotions, honor is subjective to the individual.
"Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match against an S-class favourite in order to make a more epic finals match? Because esports is about ENTERTAINMENT, not WINNING, right? To try and get to the finals is selfish, because there are better players who will give you better games and be more entertaining."
Strawman argument. Esports is a competition, obviously everyone should fight for #1. There is a difference between fighting for #1 and lowballing people. If anything hydra and great are removing the competition aspect for themselves.
ONCE AGAIN, since you seem to neglect this every time i post. I don't think they have any obligations, nor do I think they did anything they should be punished for. They are just being lame. It's funny how you seem to be attacking my OPINION saying it's hypocritical and what not.
On April 11 2011 18:32 Wohmfg wrote:
I'd love source on the bolded statement.
You say that great and Hydra crossed the line. The line seems to be based on your emotions and it's hypocritical. Every time a player makes a selfish move that hurts the entertainment value for the fans, they are being dishonourable and lose respect in your eyes. That's every progamer.
Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match against an S-class favourite in order to make a more epic finals match? Because esports is about ENTERTAINMENT, not WINNING, right? To try and get to the finals is selfish, because there are better players who will give you better games and be more entertaining.
Hydra and great had no obligations and no hidden ambiguous duties. I'd still like to see the exact set of unwritten rules you think Hydra and great should have been playing by though.
On April 11 2011 10:59 ibreakurface wrote:
Players do shit for the sake of entertainment all the time, it is there job after all. Boxer was/is all about making entertaining games, flash stopped turtling every game because people said it was boring.
I'm saying what great and hydra did tarnished the tournament, and when a player damages the Esports scene to give themselves a small edge it is pathetic. No hydra and great didn't break any rules, no they shouldn't be punished, it is just dishonorable. How can you deny that?
On April 11 2011 05:40 Wohmfg wrote:
What you're saying is that progamers should make it harder to get wins in order to entertain the fans. You're saying that progamers should play by a certain set of unwritten rules. When Bisu decided not to change group, he was being selfish. Did you lose respect for him? Did you lose respect for every single progamer who has ever made a decision in their career which helped them at the expense of entertainment? That's every progamer.
All of those players are there to win the tournament. Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match in order to make a more epic finals match?
If anything, blame the MSL selection process. Otherwise, I'd love to see the rules that you think players should abide by that aren't enforced by the MSL.
It's not a matter of respect for you though, it's just that you're angry that a good player will get knocked out early and you need someone to hate.
Wow you can read me like a book! Not.On April 11 2011 05:08 ibreakurface wrote:
I'll complain all I want. I'm not saying that the choice isn't in their best interest, or that they are breaking any rules. I'm saying they are selfish and insecure.
The early stages in any tourney shouldn't have the top 3 players eliminating each other, it's simply bad for the sport and tournament. They are damaging the tournament so they can win an empty victory. Therefore they are selfish, which is not respectable.
On April 11 2011 00:11 Wohmfg wrote:
How do you mean, selfish?
Because they tried to knock out the best of the competition early? You think progamers have some kind of duty to create fair games and entertainment for the fans? They play to win in order to make a living. What should they have done differently, exactly, to ensure that they weren't being selfish?
They followed the rules given to them anyway, so don't complain about hydra and great.
On April 10 2011 22:39 ibreakurface wrote:
He is being treated differently though, he's put in group D. As far as competition goes this is pathetic from both great and hydra, so selfish and insecure.
On April 10 2011 16:22 419 wrote:
Last season:
Flash out in Ro32
Bisu out in Ro16
They have only themselves to blame. If Flash had gotten a seed then group D(eath) would have never happened.
Do you propose blatantly using name value as a criterion when it comes to the seeding process? Then things become no better than an invitational. Imo, Flash should be treated no better than anyone else who scrubbed out in Ro32.
It's just bad for the tournament. If it were possible for Bisu, Flash AND Jaedong to all advance if they played amazingly enough, I wouldn't say this. The burden would be on them to prove their merit.
Last season:
Flash out in Ro32
Bisu out in Ro16
They have only themselves to blame. If Flash had gotten a seed then group D(eath) would have never happened.
Do you propose blatantly using name value as a criterion when it comes to the seeding process? Then things become no better than an invitational. Imo, Flash should be treated no better than anyone else who scrubbed out in Ro32.
He is being treated differently though, he's put in group D. As far as competition goes this is pathetic from both great and hydra, so selfish and insecure.
How do you mean, selfish?
Because they tried to knock out the best of the competition early? You think progamers have some kind of duty to create fair games and entertainment for the fans? They play to win in order to make a living. What should they have done differently, exactly, to ensure that they weren't being selfish?
They followed the rules given to them anyway, so don't complain about hydra and great.
I'll complain all I want. I'm not saying that the choice isn't in their best interest, or that they are breaking any rules. I'm saying they are selfish and insecure.
The early stages in any tourney shouldn't have the top 3 players eliminating each other, it's simply bad for the sport and tournament. They are damaging the tournament so they can win an empty victory. Therefore they are selfish, which is not respectable.
What you're saying is that progamers should make it harder to get wins in order to entertain the fans. You're saying that progamers should play by a certain set of unwritten rules. When Bisu decided not to change group, he was being selfish. Did you lose respect for him? Did you lose respect for every single progamer who has ever made a decision in their career which helped them at the expense of entertainment? That's every progamer.
All of those players are there to win the tournament. Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match in order to make a more epic finals match?
If anything, blame the MSL selection process. Otherwise, I'd love to see the rules that you think players should abide by that aren't enforced by the MSL.
It's not a matter of respect for you though, it's just that you're angry that a good player will get knocked out early and you need someone to hate.
Players do shit for the sake of entertainment all the time, it is there job after all. Boxer was/is all about making entertaining games, flash stopped turtling every game because people said it was boring.
I'm saying what great and hydra did tarnished the tournament, and when a player damages the Esports scene to give themselves a small edge it is pathetic. No hydra and great didn't break any rules, no they shouldn't be punished, it is just dishonorable. How can you deny that?
I'd love source on the bolded statement.
You say that great and Hydra crossed the line. The line seems to be based on your emotions and it's hypocritical. Every time a player makes a selfish move that hurts the entertainment value for the fans, they are being dishonourable and lose respect in your eyes. That's every progamer.
Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match against an S-class favourite in order to make a more epic finals match? Because esports is about ENTERTAINMENT, not WINNING, right? To try and get to the finals is selfish, because there are better players who will give you better games and be more entertaining.
Hydra and great had no obligations and no hidden ambiguous duties. I'd still like to see the exact set of unwritten rules you think Hydra and great should have been playing by though.
"The line seems to be based on your emotions and it's hypocritical"
I don't think you are understanding me. I'm aware this is based on my emotions, honor is subjective to the individual.
"Should a terrible player that no one likes roll over and forfeit a Starleague Ro4 match against an S-class favourite in order to make a more epic finals match? Because esports is about ENTERTAINMENT, not WINNING, right? To try and get to the finals is selfish, because there are better players who will give you better games and be more entertaining."
Strawman argument. Esports is a competition, obviously everyone should fight for #1. There is a difference between fighting for #1 and lowballing people. If anything hydra and great are removing the competition aspect for themselves.
ONCE AGAIN, since you seem to neglect this every time i post. I don't think they have any obligations, nor do I think they did anything they should be punished for. They are just being lame. It's funny how you seem to be attacking my OPINION saying it's hypocritical and what not.
Should Calm have forfeited that Ro4 match against Jaedong in the Avalon MSL?
Should Yellow have foreited to avoid a ZvZ final?
Yellow should forfeit if the match is a finals. Saves time. lol ㅋㄲㅈㅁ ;D!
