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[SWL] Playoffs Day 2: SK Telecom T1 vs Hwaseung Oz - Page…

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Although it's great to be fans of your respective teams, remember to keep all discourse civil. Progamers work very hard, and there are probably reasons as to why certain players are sent out at certain times.

Further disrespectful posts will be dealt with strictly.
nayumi
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia6499 Posts
April 02 2011 11:51 GMT
#2581
i'd kill for some quick VOD

or

just wait for morkita to work his magic i guess
Sugoi monogatari onii-chan!
ffreakk
Profile Joined September 2010
Singapore2155 Posts
April 02 2011 12:10 GMT
#2582
On April 02 2011 20:15 ILOVEKITTENS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2011 19:58 disciple wrote:
On April 02 2011 17:24 Milkis wrote:
On April 02 2011 17:22 ArvickHero wrote:
On April 02 2011 17:10 Milkis wrote:
On April 02 2011 17:07 ArvickHero wrote:
roflmao its not like PvZ is easy for Protoss either. In fact there's a good reason why Z>P historically (and ZvP has the higher winning percentage still when averaging out all the current maps win%). Zergs look fragile when they play against Bisu, but Bisu's PvZ is 70% and there's only 2 PvZ's that exceed 59% (Not counting Brave).

Also Jaedong always plays the insanely risky style, so blame him for losing so often for being so damn risky. Most other Zergs play a somewhat more conservative, less risky style lol..


ZvP ratio dropped quite a bit over this season. What you said is true the last few years, but this year ZvP is def Protoss favored.

I'd argue its still Zerg favored, but not as much to the point where it's a pretty balanced matchup. Zergs lost a lot the beginning of this season because A) Bisu skewing the numbers and B) Many Zergs just dying to the initial 6-8 Zealots before they figured out the optimal reaction against it (some Zergs still die to it today rofl).

I still its a little Zerg favored because of how insanely good large Lurker fields + Swarm and ninja plaguing is (therefore Ultra/ling falling out of favor recently) if Zergs can get to that stage, but its still pretty balanced since both races can straight up win outright at any stage of the game.


A "little" Zerg favored? You may be right about that. But the point is that there has been a rather large drop in ZvP win rate even after you remove Bisu/Jaedong. Of course it's more accentuated with Bisu but the difference still exists. Hell, at some point the 100 game average dropped below 50 For ZvP, which is quite amusing.

You guys will be able to see these charts someday ~~~~


well, you can't really exclude Bisu, even if you stop considering his personal success in this MU. Truth is, when he is doing great in pvz other toss players lift up their play as well. More or less it becomes a paradigm the rest of the pack follows. Ever since 2007 PvZ is in constant cycle of Bisu reinventing himself in it and the zerg players catching up to his style. I wont say he is the sole trend setter, but his impact on the way ppl see the match up is huge. The reason why no one cant just copy his PvZ from a to z, is because he has incredible decision making and reacts to the game flow better than anyone, if things are not going his way. A recent game vs Calm comes in mind.

On the contrary, I think his decision-making is very questionable sometimes, definitely more often than other players of approximately his level. He often sticks to a strategy even if he sees that it is being BO-countered (can't tell if this is cocky or straight bad decision-making but it costs him many of his games), he doesn't really tailor his gameplay to the person he is playing (cough Shine), and he loses units which he might not have otherwise lost as a result of these two factors (like the games where he does indeed fail with his first 1-6 zealots). Although he wouldn't pull a PerfectMan with that Black Ops strike force attempt on 3 simcitied sunks with dras and drones blocking the way, he does make clear blunders of similar nature sometime. I am going to side with the tried-and-true Bisu motto, and that is that Bisu is insane at multi-tasking and therefore harass, which is why the builds that have gotten him the most renown (reaver/sair, sair/dt, 6zeal/sair, dt drop vs. T, etc. etc.) are really demanding on the mechanical level. He relies on this far more than any decision-making ability.

EDIT: Although,

YEA BISU! Good job! I had to go to sleep because of work after the JD vs. Fantasy match, and I slept peacefully thinking you would it off. And you did! Grats! Gogo SKT vs KT!



I understand where you are coming from if you are keeping his vT in mind.. But i feel that his decision-making in vZ is (mostly) great.. Add superb multi-tasking good mechanics to that and you have ur best PvZ player right there.

Now, we have our work cut out for us vs Flash though >.<
Look. Only Forward. See. Only Victory.
Archers_bane
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1338 Posts
April 02 2011 12:29 GMT
#2583
well..hope for an epic Flash vs Bisu/Fantasy ace match!
Starcraft's BW glory days have passed, RIP Jaedong's dominance - 2013...EDIT 2017: WE BACK BOYS
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
April 02 2011 12:32 GMT
#2584
ugh Dear shouldn't have been send out, instead perfectman>>>Ssak, Fantasy>>Perfectman, Jaedong>>Fantasy>>s2, Bisu>>>Jaedong and Hiya >>Bisu :<.

ow well, well played from both Fantasy(although he lost, that vulture attack and harass was insane, a true terrorist). That being said, good luck vs KT skt fans........you will need it.
WriterXiao8~~
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
April 02 2011 12:37 GMT
#2585
He beats zerg with pure brute Zealot force. Very little mind-games, he is all about abusing the power of zealots.
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
April 02 2011 12:56 GMT
#2586
Nooooo i wanted oz to win T_T poor jaedong
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
April 02 2011 13:27 GMT
#2587
On April 02 2011 21:56 Sawamura wrote:
Nooooo i wanted oz to win T_T poor jaedong

yeah...
:)
Itzeddiieee
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)787 Posts
April 02 2011 13:35 GMT
#2588
jaedonggggggggggggg D:
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6181 Posts
April 02 2011 13:58 GMT
#2589
Bisu!
xlat
Profile Joined August 2010
176 Posts
April 02 2011 14:12 GMT
#2590
grats to skt

so sad should probably not write anything else at the moment considering that box up top.
iMp.will.
Profile Joined July 2009
Bulgaria441 Posts
April 02 2011 14:28 GMT
#2591
PvZ GOD strikes again!
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
April 02 2011 14:42 GMT
#2592
Great series, Jaedong did a fantastic job to bring it to game 7 but Bisu was just one step ahead in that game.
[TLMS] REBOOT
Emon_
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
3925 Posts
April 02 2011 14:56 GMT
#2593
PMan with the ceremony, lol ^^
"I know that human beings and fish can coexist peacefully" -GWB ||
Renkaoru
Profile Joined October 2010
390 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-02 15:02:50
April 02 2011 15:02 GMT
#2594
Can't believe I missed such a great series. From the live reports, it seems Bisu's PvZ was just too godly even for the Dong. Honestly, I feel bad for Jaedong when he fights SKT since he's always matched with 3 players who have a good chance of defeating him ((P)Bisu, (T)Fantasy and (Z)s2). Not to mention those three players are of 3 different races which makes it really hard to adjust to. I blame OZ for not doing their job and the coaches for not sending out HiyA. Q_Q

Either way, I'll be rooting for SKT in the coming finals. They deserve it for fighting their way through the playoffs with no byes to their name. (T)Fantasy vs (P)Stats and (T)Flash vs (P)BeSt would be really awesome to watch.
God is in His heaven. All is right with the world.
Crt
Profile Joined November 2009
247 Posts
April 02 2011 15:04 GMT
#2595
looking forward to flash all-killing SKT
Vaeila
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands336 Posts
April 02 2011 15:07 GMT
#2596
Congrats to SKT, im happy the dong picked up some big kills again
Brad
Profile Joined April 2010
2754 Posts
April 02 2011 15:09 GMT
#2597
VOD's going up. http://www.youtube.com/user/nevake#g/u
Lee Jae Dong proved that a focus on mechanics and execution could solve problems in the StarCraft game strategy.
ninini
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden1204 Posts
April 02 2011 15:23 GMT
#2598
If you're Protoss, look at Bisu's unit composition in this game.

Dragoon's are situational units. They are meant to deal with lurkers, nothing else. A mix of Zealots, Archons, High Templars, DT's and Corsairs are so much more effective against everything else. Jaedong got rolled. The moment Bisu killed off those scourges in the early game he had basically won. Then he just expanded while Jaedong was all-inning from 4 bases, desperately trying to break Bisu's army, but never succeeding. And that's how he always wins. By having air control, he can roam freely on the map, and expand as he wish, and then when the 5 hatch hydra push comes up, Bisu already have 3 bases of his own, and another one on the way. I think it's fair to say Bisu have figured out 3 hatch spire 5 hatch hydra.
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
April 02 2011 15:27 GMT
#2599
On April 03 2011 00:02 Renkaoru wrote:
Can't believe I missed such a great series. From the live reports, it seems Bisu's PvZ was just too godly even for the Dong. Honestly, I feel bad for Jaedong when he fights SKT since he's always matched with 3 players who have a good chance of defeating him ((P)Bisu, (T)Fantasy and (Z)s2). Not to mention those three players are of 3 different races which makes it really hard to adjust to. I blame OZ for not doing their job and the coaches for not sending out HiyA. Q_Q

Either way, I'll be rooting for SKT in the coming finals. They deserve it for fighting their way through the playoffs with no byes to their name. (T)Fantasy vs (P)Stats and (T)Flash vs (P)BeSt would be really awesome to watch.

Except Best hasn't been good for a long time, even PvT, Flash would roll him in their respective current conditions.
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
April 02 2011 15:33 GMT
#2600
Yay VODS!
▲ ▲ ▲
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