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henzi
United States200 Posts
On March 21 2011 04:35 Release wrote: wrong: Jaedong had a slight BO advantage by placing the hatchery at his natural first. Right: jaedong's micro was poor at best. wrong: i said mirror for the longest time, not the entire game, therefore not your standard coinflip volatile game. | ||
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henzi
United States200 Posts
On March 21 2011 10:39 j2choe wrote: You're shitting me right? There's nothing cheezy about scouting a flaw in a build and capitalizing on it. It's like the stork vs flash game, stork scouted a flaw in flash's build, double gas steal to 1 rax expand with poor scouting, everyone called that cheese, given that it was an all-in, but it was a very smart, very calculated, high probability of winning all in, so is that really cheese? when you play the game normally, and you find a timing/exploit during you normal build, and you use it to win, is that a cheese? | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
Hence the "if any." | ||
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b0lt
United States789 Posts
On March 21 2011 10:55 henzi wrote: It's like the stork vs flash game, stork scouted a flaw in flash's build, ??? He scouted that flash picked terran? | ||
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mnesthes
5433 Posts
On March 21 2011 10:55 henzi wrote: It's not a flaw, seriously... With the double gas steal Stork just FORCED Flash to 1 rax FE which he then would be able to 4gate his way in, due to Flash's tech being very late.It's like the stork vs flash game, stork scouted a flaw in flash's build, double gas steal to 1 rax expand with poor scouting, everyone called that cheese, given that it was an all-in, but it was a very smart, very calculated, high probability of winning all in, so is that really cheese? when you play the game normally, and you find a timing/exploit during you normal build, and you use it to win, is that a cheese? If someone gas steal you (make it double), would you keep pursuing the Rax -> Fact tech part which then your tech will still be late and you'll be having a huge surplus of minerals that could have been better spent on expanding earlier? The Stork vs Flash game and Jaedong vs Bisu game are entirely different. Stork forced Flash to play the way he wanted, and used a hard counter all-in to defeat Flash. Jaedong saw a hole in Bisu's defense, and used a lurkerling attack while tech switching to Mutas to defeat Bisu. Jaedong did not ALL IN. Stork did. | ||
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jjhchsc2
Korea (South)2393 Posts
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JerKy
Korea (South)3013 Posts
I was kinda upset at how easily Bisu lost to Jaedong  Bisu is my favorite protoss player, and I was looking forward to an epic PvZ Alas, the Tyrant was too much for Bisu that day | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
I thought that game was disappointing as well, it could have been very epic. Bisu might have had a chance if he didn't send out his 2 DTs, but Jaedong captured a great window of weakness and really punished bisu. | ||
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foxmeep
Australia2320 Posts
On March 21 2011 10:51 henzi wrote: wrong: i said mirror for the longest time, not the entire game, therefore not your standard coinflip volatile game. I don't see how alypse is wrong. He never said ZvZ was a coinflip (equal chance regardless of skill), just that it is volatile. That means that the game can be decided in the blink of an eye. Pretty sure everyone would agree that's what took place in this game. For argument's sake, do you think Jaedong would be as likely to lose to S2 if he was Terran or Protoss? We all know the answer is no. | ||
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
Jaedong target fired down the one cannon, without detection Bisu's zealots could do nothing. Seriously, that match was not a good demonstration of Bisu v.s. Jaedong. Skill level can hardly be determined by the decision to skip on a single cannon. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On March 21 2011 17:26 dukethegold wrote: Seriously, that match was not a good demonstration of Bisu v.s. Jaedong. Skill level can hardly be determined by the decision to skip on a single cannon. Tell that to Stork. Tosses shouldn't be so greedy with 1 cannon when planning on going for a late robo. | ||
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
On March 21 2011 17:51 moopie wrote: Tell that to Stork. Tosses shouldn't be so greedy with 1 cannon when planning on going for a late robo. >_> That hurts...Omg, the denied Stork v.s. Flash OSL final...why why | ||
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mnesthes
5433 Posts
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Ubersturmfuhrer
Finland206 Posts
On March 21 2011 07:03 Lightwip wrote: It's so random that s2 outmicroed Jaedong with mirror builds. In zvz the game almost always is ended with one or two micro battles, which end in a matter of seconds. This is why I find zvz more random than other MUs even if it's mirror builds, and I don't think I'm alone here. I'm not saying the games itself were cheesy, I think the decision to send two zergs to face him was. Still I think it was the right and the most strategic decision. I'm not judging SKT for this. The better team won definately. | ||
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kuroshiroi
3149 Posts
On March 21 2011 18:56 Ubersturmfuhrer wrote: The grumbler in me would like to blame Oz's coaches for this fail, they should've sent Dear out first and tried to get to Bisu before having to send out Hiya or Jaedong, then Hiya could've sniped Bisu leaving Jaedong free to do cleanup. In zvz the game almost always is ended with one or two micro battles, which end in a matter of seconds. This is why I find zvz more random than other MUs even if it's mirror builds, and I don't think I'm alone here. I'm not saying the games itself were cheesy, I think the decision to send two zergs to face him was. Still I think it was the right and the most strategic decision. I'm not judging SKT for this. The better team won definately. But whatever, it was a great match with stellar games and Jaedong almost managed to win while SKT managed to enter the playoffs. I'm hoping for a Oz-SKT rematch in two weeks where Oz will finally defeat SKT in god knows how long. | ||
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foxmeep
Australia2320 Posts
On March 21 2011 21:09 kuroshiroi wrote: The grumbler in me would like to blame Oz's coaches for this fail, they should've sent Dear out first and tried to get to Bisu before having to send out Hiya or Jaedong, then Hiya could've sniped Bisu leaving Jaedong free to do cleanup. But whatever, it was a great match with stellar games and Jaedong almost managed to win while SKT managed to enter the playoffs. I'm hoping for a Oz-SKT rematch in two weeks where Oz will finally defeat SKT in god knows how long. they should have sent Jaedong second/third, it was unlikely that anyone else would beat Fantasy. sending Jaedong last leaves him to have to face 2 ZvZs, which worked out in SKTs favour. Killer has the potential to beat Bisu and any Zerg if JD fails. | ||
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kuroshiroi
3149 Posts
On March 21 2011 21:30 foxmeep wrote: Or that, then they should have sent Jaedong second/third, it was unlikely that anyone else would beat Fantasy. sending Jaedong last leaves him to have to face 2 ZvZs, which worked out in SKTs favour. Killer has the potential to beat Bisu and any Zerg if JD fails.  Peculiar line-up from Oz, to say the least. | ||
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e_i_pi_1_0
933 Posts
I knew it would be far more difficult for Jaedong to AK SKT, but really, s2? I'm confused now. Either that, or Flash has passed his ace match curse to Jaedong. I just hope this ace match curse is something one has to go through before getting dual golds or something. So what exactly happened to Jaedong's muta micro? It's like ever since the MSL Bo5 vs Hydra, he can't pull out the muta micro we know he's capable of anymore. Is it due to a lack of confidence, or an actual drop in micro? | ||
Jonvvv
Norway1530 Posts
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