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Monkeyshark
United States406 Posts
On March 13 2011 16:45 Renkaoru wrote: Except I don't post assumptions that somebody didn't watch the game lol. Or maybe that person has hidden cameras installed at other people's houses now? O_o So in the game, Stork vs Flash, Stork went 12 nexus? | ||
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naneri
Kyrgyzstan165 Posts
BUT, a standard responce can not be called cheese, and that is why many people say that flash did not cheese, because he responces with early pressure in every game where tosses dare to 12 nex or gate-nex. If you watch all recent Flashed TvP where protosses did early nexus versus Flash you will see him always responding with early pressure. And do we always see Stork doing 4 gates in every PvT when terrans play early CC? Don't think so. Also storks play in 4 gate game was prepared to do exactly 4 gate build after fast CC after stolen gas. And flash does his responce with early pressure even in games when he has fast expanded himself. Like a game versus Jangbi in previous khan vs kt. So how can it be cheese if the build is oriented on FE? it is just that flash uses his units in other way, but the build is not cheesy. | ||
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naneri
Kyrgyzstan165 Posts
So in the game, Stork vs Flash, Stork went 12 nexus? No, he went gate expo | ||
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AnotherEon
United Kingdom250 Posts
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Monkeyshark
United States406 Posts
On March 13 2011 16:56 ssregi- wrote: Ok so yo pull 5 SCvs to my nat when u see me 12 nexus While I still product my Little probes. So i pull some Little probes to mining at my nat and yo attack me with yo 5 scvs and some marine When yo push fail even i lost like 5 or 7 probe, you still product scvs with 1 CC and no nat while i still produce My awsomeness Probes on 2 nexus So when if Flash bunker rush Stork he must Certain that he will take the nexus or delay his Mining nat until Flash' CC at home finish I don't know why people always have to put scenario to prove something. It was 1 dragoon and 1 zealot + (#?)probes vs 5-6 scv and 4-5 marines. I'm not a good micro player so please teach me how to micro those protoss units to effective kill all the terran units. Don't forget that 2 vultures is coming soon and your second dragoon will be out when the vultures get to the natural. Edit: Well unless you were giving the scenario to prove a point about bunkering vs 12 nexus then nevermind about my post. | ||
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ssregi-
Korea (South)146 Posts
On March 13 2011 17:04 Monkeyshark wrote: I don't know why people always have to put scenario to prove something. It was 1 dragoon and 1 zealot + (#?)probes vs 5-6 scv and 4-5 marines. I'm not a good micro player so please teach me how to micro those protoss units to effective kill all the terran units. Don't forget that 2 vultures is coming soon and your second dragoon will be out when the vultures get to the natural. OK this is " IF the rush Fail " Even like u talk, do u ever 12 nexus, 1 zealt 2 dragoon my friend And 2 Vul ?, ok wtf ( u 2 fact me ? ) | ||
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Renkaoru
390 Posts
On March 13 2011 16:58 naneri wrote: If a cheese should be considered a BO that only hits one timing and is disadventegous in case of no doing a lot of damage then both Stork and Flash cheesed, BUT, a standard responce can not be called cheese, and that is why many people say that flash did not cheese, because he responces with early pressure in every game where tosses dare to 12 nex or gate-nex. If you watch all recent Flashed TvP where protosses did early nexus versus Flash you will see him always responding with early pressure. And do we always see Stork doing 4 gates in every PvT when terrans play early CC? Don't think so. Also storks play in 4 gate game was prepared to do exactly 4 gate build after fast CC after stolen gas. And flash does his responce with early pressure even in games when he has fast expanded himself. Like a game versus Jangbi in previous khan vs kt. So how can it be cheese if the build is oriented on FE? it is just that flash uses his units in other way, but the build is not cheesy. Except that Flash put his barracks in a proxy position, preparing for a bunker rush. I am of the opinion that both are cheese. Nothing is wrong with it as it is the proper response to an anticipated early expansion timing. And to quote a piece of godly wisdom.  On March 13 2011 16:50 okum wrote: People should stop arguing about cheese as if it's something bad. The cheese is good. Embrace the cheese. | ||
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mnesthes
5433 Posts
So happy that Flash and KT still won in the end. And Flash gets to pay Stork back too, awesome! | ||
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Yxes2211
United States1587 Posts
It really is a testament to Flash that no matter how he wins he gets raged at for it  Either way, it was an interesting game. I mean, I really didn't expect Stork to last as long as he did and that was some wicked shuttle micro | ||
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
Like every other SPL game in the last 2 years, Khan shows that they need more quality players. GGs | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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trexbqs
Malaysia1731 Posts
KT wins. Congrats KT and thank you Flash and Stats :D | ||
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mnesthes
5433 Posts
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naneri
Kyrgyzstan165 Posts
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a7choi
United States1664 Posts
On March 13 2011 21:23 mnesthes wrote: After today I think Protosses fighting Flash should scout before 12/14nexing to see if he goes rax first flash almost always goes depot rax.. and stork's nexus wasn't that early | ||
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mnesthes
5433 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
Also, holy shit, Bisu and Stork almost have the same PvT ELO. | ||
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KTF_CloaK
Netherlands1338 Posts
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KTF_CloaK
Netherlands1338 Posts
On March 13 2011 23:16 Lightwip wrote: Meh, I'm not too upset about this. At least Stork saved Khan from the embarrassment of an AK by Stats. Also, holy shit, Bisu and Stork almost have the same PvT ELO. not upset? but...but... you are a skt1 fan! same elo as stork? wat | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On March 13 2011 23:16 Lightwip wrote: Also, holy shit, Bisu and Stork almost have the same PvT ELO. It's about to get even closer. Last night's games have not been factored into TLPD yet. Regarding the last game, Flash's strategy is cheesy, but I'd hesitate to call it a cheese outright. It has to really, really fail badly before he's completely screwed over and if we define cheese in such a manner then basically any strategy would be considered cheesy. What makes a cheese a cheese is that a.) you are dependent on your opponent not being able to react in time (usually this boils down to if they scout it you are screwed, if they don't scout it you win) and b.) you are locked into your strategy. Hence if your cheese fails you are screwed. These days it's getting harder to call anything cheese because scouting techniques and understanding of timing are much better and players always want a contingency plan. At least, that's my take on cheese these days. Why Flash was able to roll Stork like that in large part has to do with Stork failing a little bit. He was confident enough that he kept his zealot in Flash's base and it did help a little by allowing him to stack his probes to defend, but his zealot and goon at home didn't do enough in defense. He had enough stuff that I thought he should be able to defend that (obviously with some loss of probes) but he failed, really. | ||
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