Bisu gonna be haaappy to see his old teammates, but his old teammates won't if he beats them lolz. MBC must still be in a foul mood to be on a losing streak and without Light. I'd usually be okay with MBC beating SKT, but since SKT needs to stay in first place, this game is crucial.
MBC has no shot in this one. I'm excited for it because MBC is the team BeSt should be the best against (no pun intended). I think hyun and saint represent the weakest zerg line in the league. Even if best does lose, no one on MBC is favored against fantasy and no one (except sea maybe) is favored against bisu.
Edit: Did any one else realize that bisu is now 2nd elo?
Quick note: you tlpdized the wrong Tyson in the predictions. Also, as much as I agree with the predictions, couldn't you put in a more eclectic prediction? =)
Since MBC lost Light, I think they don't stand a chance at all. FBB +By.Sun (for experience) will roll MBC. They only have Sea left :<. They do however have Tyson, which is decent.
On March 06 2011 09:28 Taekwon wrote: Quick note: you tlpdized the wrong Tyson in the predictions. Also, as much as I agree with the predictions, couldn't you put in a more eclectic prediction? =)
God damn sc2 TLPD clash, this has already gone too far. And no.
On March 06 2011 08:57 hacklebeast wrote: Edit: Did any one else realize that bisu is now 2nd elo?
Been that way for a month or two. Also he's #1 vZ ELO.
On March 06 2011 08:57 hacklebeast wrote: MBC has no shot in this one. I'm excited for it because MBC is the team BeSt should be the best against (no pun intended). I think hyun and saint represent the weakest zerg line in the league. Even if best does lose, no one on MBC is favored against fantasy and no one (except sea maybe) is favored against bisu.
Edit: Did any one else realize that bisu is now 2nd elo?
Best lost to Reality, your argument is invalid
In all seriousness tho T1 has been struggling against MBC so I doubt this will be an exception. Tho with Light having moved to Stars, at least T1 has 1 less thing to worry about Let's hope they pull out a win here.
On March 06 2011 11:14 gds wrote: Who's the strongest MBC player atm? I would say Sea but i'm not too sure...
Sea for sure. In proleague Sea > Light (except against Jaedong&Flash) but Sea's performance against Wemade was very lacklustre. I don't know if he's recovered from Light's departure or not.
On March 06 2011 11:14 gds wrote: Who's the strongest MBC player atm? I would say Sea but i'm not too sure...
Sea for sure. In proleague Sea > Light (except against Jaedong&Flash) but Sea's performance against Wemade was very lacklustre. I don't know if he's recovered from Light's departure or not.
i think Sea is the most affect by Light departure to Stars. and i think he will take time to recover it. Hope MBC will do the best vs SKT today. I think everyone will mention light every time MBC play because he with MBC more than 6 years.
2 of Soo's Lings sneak into the main. Hyun's lings are at Soo's nat which has now finished and kill a creep colony and the lings there! They focus on the hat. Soo pulls drones!
That was just painful to watch. There was no finesse with Soo's lings at all. Dang it, this is just making me wanting Coach Park to send out Kwanro even more. D:
Fantasy going Depo-Rax wall off. He pulls an SCV to attack the drone that came to scout and harass. Starts his gas when rax is half-done. I think that was a 12-pool-gas from Hyun?
Hrmm, have to go out now, so I will either miss a good Fantasy victory or a terribad loss from him... I have a feeling that it will be the latter though. Jung Laden fighting!
On March 06 2011 13:24 Lightwip wrote: Why send Fantasy here? Why not just get a sure win with Bisu?
SKT tends to train players to specific maps. Probably why.
Nah, Bisu said he was comfortable on all maps cause he plays on all. That was awhile ago but still. I'm also bias cause I wanted Bisu to play after Soo lost and all kill wooooo.
Fantasy sieged up outside hyuns base with mnm tank force , a lot of sunkens though... Hyun morphing guardians, but fantasy has a shitload of wraith O_O
~6 Guardians snipe a tank and force the force back. They group up with the wraiths and move back in. The wraiths snipe a guardian. Hyun has 2 spores at his nat to try and protect the guardians.
Fantasy with his third up at the inner 3. He's finished his science facility, so SciVessels coming soon. Poor control means he loses ~3 wraiths to scourge. He does save 2 vessels though.
Weirdest game ever... 11 is dead, bottom right ninja expo by Hyun still up - both players on 3 bases, fantasy pushing hyuns nat irradiating a lot of defiler
SK Terran building up in the centre of the map. They make a move towards Hyun's nat. Which interestingly, still has a turret outside it.
Irradiate all over all but 1 of Hyun's defilers. Fantasy drops 4 and snipes the Nydus immediately then takes out the sunken. Drones evacuate and run into the main bio force.
Fantasy snipes a lone guardian hanging about in the middle of the map. Hyun tries to attack a small bio force head on with 3 guardians and loses them all.
SKT bench is ecstatic. That was a pretty good comeback from Fantasy. However, I do say that both players made some highly questionable decisions at times. Hm...
i think hyun thought he was more behind than he really was after his failed all in...it was semi successful, lost a lot of mining time and fantasy hardly had much units anyway with the fast +1 and only 1 rax for a long time, if he had just did standard muta -> lurkling defiler he probably would have won... at the very least stood more of a chance. pretty fucked up game nonetheless
On March 06 2011 13:41 moopie wrote: Hyun tossing up swarms while having 0 ground units, genius.
After that start, he really dropped the ball.
His initial hydra bust wasn't bad. But he never really decided to mine gas for a long time and he spent it all on tech. That meant he has like, no units and was forced to sunken+spore up. Then he didn't have any money for anything really. Expanding to opposite corners of the map is supposed to be so if the enemy kills one base, you take your army and just kill him. But Hyun never really had an army...
To be honest, his initial bust force of 4 hydras and 10 lings was probably the biggest army he had the whole game. >.>
I'm not really sure what happened in that game. What did Hyun do after he nearly killed Fantasy? Rush to guardian and 4base but not take his 4th gas, fail to make nydus at top left and forfeit it to a simple drop, and...where the hell were all of his minerals going? He must never have droned up after the rush.
On March 06 2011 13:44 JWD wrote: I'm not really sure what happened in that game. What did Hyun do after he nearly killed Fantasy? Rush to guardian and 4base but not take his 4th gas, fail to make nydus at top left and forfeit it to a simple drop, and...where the hell were all of his minerals going? He must never have droned up after the rush.
On March 06 2011 13:44 JWD wrote: I'm not really sure what happened in that game. What did Hyun do after he nearly killed Fantasy? Rush to guardian and 4base but not take his 4th gas, fail to make nydus at top left and forfeit it to a simple drop, and...where the hell were all of his minerals going? He must never have droned up after the rush.
In fact, I don't think he even took his 3rd gas for quite some time. That was really bad, especially after his nat gas was delayed as well. He spent a lot of minerals on sunkens and spores too while trying to tech to guardians. When Fantasy initially pushed him, his response was to make more sunkens right in front of the tanks.
Static defence is good. But it can't get up and go kill the opponent for you.
On March 06 2011 13:44 JWD wrote: I'm not really sure what happened in that game. What did Hyun do after he nearly killed Fantasy? Rush to guardian and 4base but not take his 4th gas, fail to make nydus at top left and forfeit it to a simple drop, and...where the hell were all of his minerals going? He must never have droned up after the rush.
Edit: hazz and MoonBear help explain
minerals went to like 20 sunkens
Oh that's a good point. Yeah that was ridiculous.
Also: I have no idea how Hyun thought he stood a chance of defending those far away expansions with Guardians.
On March 06 2011 13:44 JWD wrote: I'm not really sure what happened in that game. What did Hyun do after he nearly killed Fantasy? Rush to guardian and 4base but not take his 4th gas, fail to make nydus at top left and forfeit it to a simple drop, and...where the hell were all of his minerals going? He must never have droned up after the rush.
Edit: hazz and MoonBear help explain
He was on 1gas i think when he was at hive with 4 base lol, unless he took his gas at topleft instead of his natural first, then went double defiler mound for fast plague and consume but didnt make any units to go with his defilers, then lacked gas or something to make defilers anyway
On March 06 2011 13:47 Gescom wrote: He made a fair number of scourge as well that didn't accomplish much.
They did pick off a few wraiths. But by that point, Fantasy has pretty much abandoned wraiths and was going into full SK Terran. They did almost snipe a few vessels though. If he had gotten them, he might have delayed the inevitable for a bit.
Hyun really cut a lot of gas this game and then wasted it all on things that never really did much. It was like he couldn't make up his mind what he wanted.
On March 06 2011 13:44 JWD wrote: I'm not really sure what happened in that game. What did Hyun do after he nearly killed Fantasy? Rush to guardian and 4base but not take his 4th gas, fail to make nydus at top left and forfeit it to a simple drop, and...where the hell were all of his minerals going? He must never have droned up after the rush.
Edit: hazz and MoonBear help explain
He was on 1gas i think when he was at hive with 4 base lol, unless he took his gas at topleft instead of his natural first, then went double defiler mound for fast plague and consume but didnt make any units to go with his defilers, then lacked gas or something to make defilers anyway
That game didnt even make sense tbh ;(
I really didn't get that decision. Extractors don't cost that much, and he had a large econ lead at that point. He could have just delayed Hive, econed up and contained Fantasy with Lurkers or something. Oh well. The SKT fan here is (dubiously) happy.
Jaehoon up for MBC. Come on Fantasy! Make up for last game with some top-notch TvP!
Fantasy with rax at his nat in a way that doesn't wall anything off at all. I don't understand this. Is this some funky 1-rax expands he's been working on?
Initial scouting probe almost kills an SCV. It somehow manages to get into the base despite a SCV blocking the downward ramp.
Jaehoon starting his expo.
The probe manages to kill that 1-hp SCV. That was terrible. 1 zealot incoming. It... gets into the main??
Fantasy really likes playing games that force him to pull SCVs. He kills the initial zealot, but a second one kills all the marines. A third zealot is not incoming.
Jaehoon now has his nat up. Fantasy just starting his. Starts a machine-shop on his fact.
Jaehoon now has a robo up. I think he wants to reaver drop? Floating rax sees this then floats back over the water.Goons chase off some vults. Good micro lets them clear a few mines too.
Zela bombs on the tanks don't drag any mines, but do mash the tanks. Combined zeals+tanks kill nearly everything, but clutch repair on the one tank left saves the position!
Too bad the goons see the armoury being made and camp the bunker.
Fantasy now has armoury up. Not spinning yet though. Jaehoon wants to start his 4th at 7, but a mine stops it. He puts down a pylon and waits for his Obs. Vults head out to try and intercept the goons going down there.
On March 06 2011 14:03 mnesthes wrote: Well, a unit under the cover of a tree enjoys the advantage of having 30% of ranged attacks against it miss, like on high ground.
First arbiter out for Jaehoon. We all know that DTs under an arbiter are double cloaked but Jaehoon decides to forgo the double cloak and make a dark archon.
1 vult denies the probe trying to make Jaehoon's 5th at 9.
Jaehoon clearing ou the mines. He moves into Fantasy's 3rd and forces the CC to lift! Fantasy pulls SCVs. Stasis catches 6 tanks. Large goon loses from mines though. Reinforcements arrive for Jaehoon and let him march into 3.
On March 06 2011 14:06 cosiant wrote: JWD? Dat Best fanboy, where were you all this time?
Just lurking. And following SC2 tourneys much more closely than BW. Course I still keep tabs on my boy BeSt, though
Did you know last week he lost to a rookie Terran in a macro game?
WL isn't his format and this WL isn't his season. But it's not unheard of. I'll never forget him losing to Really when Really was a rookie...and on Katrina no less.
Large force for Jaehoon pushes the inner 12 expo of Fantasy's. Fantasy just has a stream of vultures. He manages to mine right in front of the goons and kills half of them.
Jaehoon seems to have like, 20 gates or something. This is silly.
Jaehoon recalls right into the middle of a tank group. Because they are unsieged, they don't kill each other. Fantasy lays waste to 9. Mines pick off goon reinforcements despite an obs near by.
Fantasy pushes his force from 9 down to the expos below. Jaehoon seems torn between deciding whether to defend his expos, or pushing Fantasy. He pushes with half his forces but they get forced back.
Fantasy slow pushes 8 and starts killing the outer gateways.
Jaehoon has his army really spread out. He doesn't seem to have his rally points all in one place so he has clumps of units here and there in each base. He really should combine them.
Fantasy with a huge mech deathball roaming the centre. A few low hp units but still really scary. Jaehoon maynards his probes to the last 2 mining bases he has.
Fantasy sieges up next to a stasised goon. When that unstasises, splash will kill his units.
Jaehoon raids the inner 12 with some goons and forces the deathball to retreat. However, he gets trapped in a bad concave and loses pretty much everything.
Jaehoon should've used that Dark Archon to mind control an SCV and a Siege Tank. This would give him his own tank production, at a cost of 400+150+200/100 for a CC, Barracks and Factory. Then with constant tank production he could easily defend his map positions, with observers acting as spotters for full tank range. I thought Jaehoon would've won if he had done that. Plus when you mind control siege tanks you dont have to upgrade, you get their upgrades.
Some nice defence by Fantasy in the early to mid game. I was impressed with Jaehoon's aggression, but he lost a lot of units, and after that Fantasy just starved him beautifully.
On March 06 2011 14:24 blue001 wrote: Jaehoon should've used that Dark Archon to mind control an SCV and a Siege Tank. This would give him his own tank production, at a cost of 400+150+200/100 for a CC, Barracks and Factory. Then with constant tank production he could easily defend his map positions, with observers acting as spotters for full tank range. I thought Jaehoon would've won if he had done that. Plus when you mind control siege tanks you dont have to upgrade, you get their upgrades.
That is a brilliant plan. Why it has not yet revolutionized PvT yet is beyond me. Protoss + Tanks > Tanks
On March 06 2011 14:28 mnesthes wrote: I think Fantasy should just AK MBC from now on. They've got like, no one good enough left to stand up against him.
On March 06 2011 14:24 blue001 wrote: Jaehoon should've used that Dark Archon to mind control an SCV and a Siege Tank. This would give him his own tank production, at a cost of 400+150+200/100 for a CC, Barracks and Factory. Then with constant tank production he could easily defend his map positions, with observers acting as spotters for full tank range. I thought Jaehoon would've won if he had done that. Plus when you mind control siege tanks you dont have to upgrade, you get their upgrades.
That is a brilliant plan. Why it has not yet revolutionized PvT yet is beyond me. Protoss + Tanks > Tanks
On March 06 2011 14:28 mnesthes wrote: I think Fantasy should just AK MBC from now on. They've got like, no one good enough left to stand up against him.
scout probe kill, super aggro zealots, TREE HIDE, crazy mine drags, crazy stasis, super aggro pushes, shutting down that third over and over again ... and esp shutting down fantasy vulture harass? how can you ppl not recommend that game?
edit,
On March 06 2011 14:30 Ryo wrote: Jaehoon hate is "trendy". And pple in the "Jaedong quit twitter" thread were slamming Korean netizens. Ironic.
Granted Jaehoon is not a top player but these are the same type of comments that made him want to quit BW last year.
On March 06 2011 14:24 blue001 wrote: Jaehoon should've used that Dark Archon to mind control an SCV and a Siege Tank. This would give him his own tank production, at a cost of 400+150+200/100 for a CC, Barracks and Factory. Then with constant tank production he could easily defend his map positions, with observers acting as spotters for full tank range. I thought Jaehoon would've won if he had done that. Plus when you mind control siege tanks you dont have to upgrade, you get their upgrades.
That is a brilliant plan. Why it has not yet revolutionized PvT yet is beyond me. Protoss + Tanks > Tanks
On March 06 2011 14:28 mnesthes wrote: I think Fantasy should just AK MBC from now on. They've got like, no one good enough left to stand up against him.
EMBEESEA!!!!
Have you seen Sea's record against Fantasy? lmao
Fantasy's TvT is, dare I say, probably just as strong as his signature match-up TvP, if not stronger. His semi-finals against Flash in the 2010 MSL was amazing.
On March 06 2011 14:28 mnesthes wrote: I think Fantasy should just AK MBC from now on. They've got like, no one good enough left to stand up against him.
EMBEESEA!!!!
Have you seen Sea's record against Fantasy? lmao
Fantasy's TvT is, dare I say, probably just as strong as his signature match-up TvP, if not stronger. His semi-finals against Flash in the 2010 MSL was amazing.
ummm...you know that you are just proving his point right?
On March 06 2011 14:24 blue001 wrote: Jaehoon should've used that Dark Archon to mind control an SCV and a Siege Tank. This would give him his own tank production, at a cost of 400+150+200/100 for a CC, Barracks and Factory. Then with constant tank production he could easily defend his map positions, with observers acting as spotters for full tank range. I thought Jaehoon would've won if he had done that. Plus when you mind control siege tanks you dont have to upgrade, you get their upgrades.
That is a brilliant plan. Why it has not yet revolutionized PvT yet is beyond me. Protoss + Tanks > Tanks
Yea, I think you have to be on the level of stork or bisu to pull off the initial mind control, which is the hardest part. If you watched stork vs ggplay he uses mind control to take overlords and defilers, which he then uses to swarm his own units. Not as effective vs zreg though, since if you wanted to build your own defilers you will need to tech to hive.. and get a mound which takes too long.
On March 06 2011 14:30 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote: Jaehoon está roto
I don't think it's a temporary ailment...
estar = physical sense of being. It refers to either a physical state of the body (positions and whatnot) or emotions.
es = metaphysical sense of being. Now while it would make sense to classify being broken in the sense that he can't play as metaphysical, the expression would make no sense in Spanish as we don't talk about things being broken in that sense.
Edit: To clarify: Estar doesn't apply to only temporary ailments or any sort of states of being for that matter.
scout probe kill, super aggro zealots, TREE HIDE, crazy mine drags, crazy stasis, super aggro pushes, shutting down that third over and over again ... and esp shutting down fantasy vulture harass? how can you ppl not recommend that game?
On March 06 2011 14:28 mnesthes wrote: I think Fantasy should just AK MBC from now on. They've got like, no one good enough left to stand up against him.
EMBEESEA!!!!
Have you seen Sea's record against Fantasy? lmao
Fantasy's TvT is, dare I say, probably just as strong as his signature match-up TvP, if not stronger. His semi-finals against Flash in the 2010 MSL was amazing.
ummm...you know that you are just proving his point right?
Just providing some extra insight as a proper SKT Fantasy fanboy should do.
Man, I really wish I understood Jaehoon. You hear constantly that he is just a monster in practice, but it never really shows up in games (though he was been having a little better results, especially vs T).
Wish I understood why. I guess nerves, but really, after several years you still get crazy nervous every game?
On March 06 2011 14:37 L_Master wrote: Man, I really wish I understood Jaehoon. You hear constantly that he is just a monster in practice, but it never really shows up in games (though he was been having a little better results, especially vs T).
Wish I understood why. I guess nerves, but really, after several years you still get crazy nervous every game?
The nerves don't go away, and consistent loss only compounds the problem. Just speaking from my experience with high school athletics.
On March 06 2011 14:30 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote: Jaehoon está roto
I don't think it's a temporary ailment...
estar = physical sense of being. It refers to either a physical state of the body (positions and whatnot) or emotions.
es = metaphysical sense of being. Now while it would make sense to classify being broken in the sense that he can't play as metaphysical, the expression would make no sense in Spanish as we don't talk about things being broken in that sense.
Edit: To clarify: Estar doesn't apply to only temporary ailments or any sort of states of being for that matter.
Source: Native Spanish speaker :3
Also: Go FanTasy All-kill! :3
Ah, thanks for clarifying. Hoping for some Bisu though.
First Arbiter out for Tyson. Fantasy pushes out with tanks and marines. Second armoury going down with a starport control tower and sci facility. Flash build?
On March 06 2011 14:37 L_Master wrote: Man, I really wish I understood Jaehoon. You hear constantly that he is just a monster in practice, but it never really shows up in games (though he was been having a little better results, especially vs T).
Wish I understood why. I guess nerves, but really, after several years you still get crazy nervous every game?
he's gone 50% since this year's proleague started, and had a slump in feb
On March 06 2011 14:43 MoonBear wrote: First Arbiter out for Tyson. Fantasy pushes out with tanks and marines. Second armoury going down with a starport control tower and sci facility. Flash build?
Flash doesn't get nearly as many vultures as Fanta.
On March 06 2011 14:43 MoonBear wrote: First Arbiter out for Tyson. Fantasy pushes out with tanks and marines. Second armoury going down with a starport control tower and sci facility. Flash build?
Indeed it is the flash build =) With more vultures then tanks....
I think I saw 6 fact, 2 shops from Fantasy just then. Looks like he's gearing up for macro mode with heavy vult play while building up that tank count. Just like last game.
SEXY STASIS DOWN!! Fanta with positional advantage above the ramp though... Jaehoon retreats... Commentators wondering how (...)? Fantasy setting a contain outside of Tyson's base.
Fantasy picks everything up and heads to camp the middle. Another engagement goes well as his position on the ridge prevents Tyson from moving out. Fantasy now sieges up outside Tyson's 3rd. Stasis catches 3 tanks, but emp prevents anymore.
Fantasy moves back to his huge tank line at the ridge outside Tyson's nat. Tyson seems to be just marching everything into a huge concave of waiting tanks. What was that?
He sends a few tanks to slow siege push Tyson's 3rd and 4th, taking them down.
Tyson ses his econ crumbling, the massive tank line outside his nat and ggs!
That might've been one of the saddest PvTs I've ever seen. Fantasy is a great player and all, but Tyson just played far below even his average skill level that game.
On March 06 2011 14:51 TwoToneTerran wrote: That might've been one of the saddest PvTs I've ever seen. Fantasy is a great player and all, but Tyson just played far below even his average skill level that game.
It's very disheartening to watch as an MBC fan. At least try your best you know.
On March 06 2011 14:50 JWD wrote: Fantasy gets to 200/200 and becomes unbeatable? neither Tyson nor Jaehoon had any idea what to do about his maxed push
Tyson just let Fantasy macro up to 200/200 and get 3-2 doing the Flash build without any real harass or attempts to do anything about it. His engagements were also poor positionally. He marched his army into a huge line of waiting tanks so many times, and his units trickled in piecemeal begging to be picked off.
The camera focuses on the empty seat in the MBC booth. Dramatic music plays on Kiante's stream. Who can stop the Fantasy All-Kill incoming?
Sea walks up and takes a bow. His face is stern and solemn. He knows he is just a ritual sacrifice, a mere pawn to be given to Fantasy to slake his thirst.
Fantasy sits down, frowning. He had hoped for a better tribute. He shall contend with crushing MBC instead.
On March 06 2011 14:51 TwoToneTerran wrote: That might've been one of the saddest PvTs I've ever seen. Fantasy is a great player and all, but Tyson just played far below even his average skill level that game.
It's very disheartening to watch as an MBC fan. At least try your best you know.
Pusan, please come out of retirement!
Tyson, what happened to you? after doing AK, you seem...effect light? maybe. He really played not like he always play. wonder why?
Replay shows that during Tyson v Fantasy, during the engagement at 10, the pylon wall prevented the goons from attacking the tanks and the zealots ran through the gaps in single-file to get slaughtered by tanks. Oh dear.
On March 06 2011 14:58 LightningStrike wrote: Sea it time for MBSea Sea reverse 3 kill plz
He has to get through Fantasy, Best and Bisu. That's the whole FBB lineup for SKT. I can't really see that happening.
Sadly true but would be hillrious tho =)
Depends which Sea turns up today. If he gets past Fantasy then I can definitely see it happening. BeSt is far from back to his...err...best, and Bisu's PvT is vulnerable against the top Terrans.
On March 06 2011 15:00 Ryo wrote: ^ Fantasy is the biggest hurdle.
Disagree, I vote for Bisu. A popular sentiment is that Bisu's PvT is off, but the results speak otherwise. He's beaten pretty much every T except Flash and Hiya. Maybe his games don't look so pretty, but even his PvZ's *look* shaky sometimes and he still manages to win in the end.
On March 06 2011 15:00 Ryo wrote: ^ Fantasy is the biggest hurdle.
Disagree, I vote for Bisu. A popular sentiment is that Bisu's PvT is off, but the results speak otherwise. He's beaten pretty much every T except Flash and Hiya. Maybe his games don't look so pretty, but even his PvZ's *look* shaky sometimes and he still manages to win in the end.
even so, Fantasy is going to be much tougher for Sea
On March 06 2011 15:00 Ryo wrote: ^ Fantasy is the biggest hurdle.
Disagree, I vote for Bisu. A popular sentiment is that Bisu's PvT is off, but the results speak otherwise. He's beaten pretty much every T except Flash and Hiya. Maybe his games don't look so pretty, but even his PvZ's *look* shaky sometimes and he still manages to win in the end.
How to tell: Check the first character in the Korean names. "ng" in Korean is a circle, so the player whose first character has a circle at the bottom is Jung Myung Hoon, better known as Fantasy.
Sea drops the back of Fantasy's main behind the mineral line. Fantasy pulls everything off mining and is forced to sacrifice some good positioning in the centre. He goes drop Sea's main however and starts work on the production facilities.
Wraiths move in to the lone defending tank at Fantasy's main. SCVs gang-rush the tanks.
SCVs clean up the tanks but he loses a lot to Wraiths. Fantasy spots 7 and moves in with tanks to kill it. Sea also gang-attacks with SCVs to try and hold.
Fantasy turrets up the space behind his main mineral line. Sea sends in an engi bay to soak up hits before sending in the drop ships. Fantasy responds by moving his forces into 7.
CC lifted at Fantay's main, SCVs pulled at 7.
Sea brings in more units to 7 with dropships. He still has a large tank ball in Fantasy's main behind the minerals.
Sea moves in his units to start cleaning up the depos in Fantasy's main. Fantasy drops Sea's main but Sea counter-drops and cleans up. Another drop battle. Doesn't go well for Fantasy.
On March 06 2011 15:23 salito wrote: Huge positional imbalance abuse.
You are actually incredibly wrong. Fantasy had the positional advantage that game.
edit: to go into more detail, Fantasy had the expanding positional advantage in that all of his expansions after his natural expand away from Sea's main and army, whereas for Sea to take his more natural third base, he expands towards Fantasy's side of the map, and to expand to a fourth he has to defend a much longer stretch of map.
He also had the positional advantage for drops, as if he went for drop play, Sea's natural was very close to him, while Fantasy's natural was very far away from Sea for Sea to drop, and naturals are the most prime targets for drops because drop tech occurs after you expand to your nat.
On March 06 2011 15:23 salito wrote: Huge positional imbalance abuse.
You are actually incredibly wrong. Fantasy had the positional advantage that game.
Um I think sea had the positional advantage. Fantasy couldn't defend both his main (which is very close to sea's forces) and the potential of a front attack. Not to mention that the army can't stray to far away to defend expos.
Edit Drops in the main are more dangerous/common than drops in the natural. And the fact that sea had the option to expand towards his opponent was good for him. Its why terran does it against toss in most games.
On March 06 2011 15:23 salito wrote: Huge positional imbalance abuse.
You are actually incredibly wrong. Fantasy had the positional advantage that game.
Um I think sea had the positional advantage. Fantasy couldn't defend both his main (which is very close to sea's forces) and the potential of a front attack. Not to mention that the army can't stray to far away to defend expos.
Fantasy's main also had a large space behind it that was facing Sea's base whereas Sea did not have such a large space that was easily drop-able. There was also that cute rax trying to make marines, although it was spotted.
On March 06 2011 15:23 salito wrote: Huge positional imbalance abuse.
You are actually incredibly wrong. Fantasy had the positional advantage that game.
edit: to go into more detail, Fantasy had the expanding positional advantage in that all of his expansions after his natural expand away from Sea's main and army, whereas for Sea to take his more natural third base, he expands towards Fantasy's side of the map, and to expand to a fourth he has to defend a much longer stretch of map.
He also had the positional advantage for drops, as if he went for drop play, Sea's natural was very close to him, while Fantasy's natural was very far away from Sea for Sea to drop, and naturals are the most prime targets for drops because drop tech occurs after you expand to your nat.
You'll notice that Sea's successful drops on the main's mineral line versus Fantasy's failed drops in some random location in the main likely decided the game. All game Fantasy's prime target for drops was the main. Fantasy's last gasp targeted the factories, not mining locations.
On March 06 2011 15:23 salito wrote: Huge positional imbalance abuse.
You are actually incredibly wrong. Fantasy had the positional advantage that game.
edit: to go into more detail, Fantasy had the expanding positional advantage in that all of his expansions after his natural expand away from Sea's main and army, whereas for Sea to take his more natural third base, he expands towards Fantasy's side of the map, and to expand to a fourth he has to defend a much longer stretch of map.
He also had the positional advantage for drops, as if he went for drop play, Sea's natural was very close to him, while Fantasy's natural was very far away from Sea for Sea to drop, and naturals are the most prime targets for drops because drop tech occurs after you expand to your nat.
You'll notice that Sea's successful drops on the main's mineral line versus Fantasy's failed drops in some random location in the main likely decided the game. All game Fantasy's prime target for drops was the main. Fantasy's last gasp targeted the factories, not mining locations.
You'll notice that Sea won because he wrecked Fantasy's natural early on with a drop and got an earlier third expansion that Fantasy never scouted because he only checked the northwest corner of the map (as that's the easiest to defend expansion for sea). The main drop was the killing blow on the game that Sea dominated from the outset. You guys are trying to find really sad excuses for why Fantasy lost when he was purely outplayed this game.
If Fantasy and sea swapped places you'd have said Sea had positional imbalance for all the reasons I said. The easiest way to kill a Terran with fast drops is to hit his natural on those cliffs on that map, and that's what Sea did. Only he had to do it from way further away. It's a sad excuse chalking up Fantasy's loss to positions.
Ummm, I feel like the biggest advantage in Sea's favor was the layout of the mains. Sea's main has the minerals up against the side of the map, making it so that his main is not very exposed to drops. Fantasy's main has open area behind the minerals that is highly exposed.
I do think that Sea had the positional advantage, but TwoToneTerrans point is also valid. In the end, i just comes down to the fact that Sea played a better game of Starcraft.
Sea has a control tower and academy now. If he went to school and learnt how to be a man, he would not need an Academy.
Goons pressure the bunker and almost bring it down, but it gets repaired. Bisu starts his 3rd at 4 because he knows economy is important. Sea, ever the copycat starts a CC at 9.
Sea uses cowardly mines to kill 2 goons. He also has an armoury.
He cliff drops the area behind Bisu's nat with tanks but they are trapped by goons like they should be.
11. A lot of people in the community say that your carrier micro is bad but how do you usually practice using carriers and how do you feel about your carrier play?
- I used a carrier build on a televised game simply because it went well during practice. It didn’t go very well during the game but I know what I did wrong and I’m working to fix it right now.
Sea now siegeing up behind the pylon wall at 4. Good mine placement gets the first two goons trying to stop this but the tanks+vults are cleaned out quickly.
A vult gets into the main and sees the fleet beacon and stargates. Bisu has 3 btw.
Terran now with more bases than Protoss. His mech is 1-0. Protoss still 0-0. Bisu loses a whole load of speedlots to mines. He now has 4 carriers that raid 12.
Large engagement in the centre. Bisu clears out quite a few tanks surprisingly and his goons pick off some goliaths. But a pincer move from Sea catchs the goons and forces them back. The carriers move in and lay waste to 12. In return, Sea sieges up at 3 (I think) but loses the three tanks to a HT storm.
yay bisu! I think this is the first time i've seen him win with carriers... and I love how he made high templars but didn't actually use them (other than defensive storming)
Gentlemen, this is a historic moment in the History of Broodwar. Bisu has actually won with carriers. Yes, I am even amazed myself enough to log in and make a psot about it. XD
But in all seriousness, how did he win that? He made virtually no high templar. o_O
On March 06 2011 15:52 ]343[ wrote: bisu snipes base at 11, hitting 9
sea's army is doing ??? in the center
oh lord 5 dts lol
sea takes out 4.5, bisu visits 10.5 but backs off (or dies?)
He got the CC which meant Sea didn't have any mining bases anymore as he lost 9 as well. Bisu still had 6 and a large goon force. The carriers then swept up the tanks in the middle because their goliath support had run away to 11.
Looool Fantasy gets weeky MVP award~ He still looks pissed about being denied his all-kill. Oh well, the Bisu fanboys must always be pleased, Jung Laden! ;P
I am speechless. Aside from a game where Bisu beat Flash with Carriers (a long time ago), I can't remember another live match other than this one where's he's pulled it off.
KTY making a point! He must have gotten confused and thought it was practice.
Damn.. next thing you know, ACE is gonna win a game in Winners League
On March 06 2011 15:55 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: I am speechless. Aside from a game where Bisu beat Flash with Carriers (a long time ago), I can't remember another live match other than this one where's he's pulled it off.
KTY making a point! He must have gotten confused and thought it was practice.
I don't ever remember Bisu beating Flash with Carriers.. but I do remember Carrier victories over Hwasin in MSL, Mind in OSL and FBH in MSL. I don't know of any other Carrier victories lol..
On March 06 2011 15:57 J1.au wrote: Bisu won a game, what's the big deal? I'm pretty confused by all the reactions here.
Bisu is traditionally not very good with carriers. Despite good practise performance with them, he has trouble translating that into wins in real games. In fact, it'd be fair to say he's lost quite a few vTs by choosing to go carriers.
On March 06 2011 15:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Edit: And I'm a dt now!
Bisu's signature unit! It is time to celebrate!
I mean, the lone exclamation point easily derives joyful Bisu fanboy squeals... it doesn't necessarily convey doubt or indignance. epsecially when the only other option given is yes... adding a question mark to it would be much better
On March 06 2011 15:58 LightningStrike wrote: Can somone due winners interviews plz Thanks in advance
Interviews usually don't come for a little while right after a game. They have to do the lulzy group photoshoots, and then actually do the interviews themselves and such.
Plus I'm sick, so I don't know if I can stay up and translate them.
On March 06 2011 15:54 Womwomwom wrote: Told you, once protoss gets a large number of carriers every terran that isn't Flash basically crumbles because of bad army positioning.
Yeah, Flash just seems to have the perfect positioning against Carriers. Combined with his relentless denying of toss expos, it makes Carriers a grave digger for Protoss rather than a game-winning move.
On March 06 2011 15:58 LightningStrike wrote: Can somone due winners interviews plz Thanks in advance
Interviews usually don't come for a little while right after a game. They have to do the lulzy group photoshoots, and then actually do the interviews themselves and such.
Plus I'm sick, so I don't know if I can stay up and translate them.
That's okay. Take care of yourself! I'll be patient and wait for your translation; your commentary of the photos always makes me laugh.
On March 06 2011 15:54 Womwomwom wrote: Told you, once protoss gets a large number of carriers every terran that isn't Flash basically crumbles because of bad army positioning.
Yeah, Flash just seems to have the perfect positioning against Carriers. Combined with his relentless denying of toss expos, it makes Carriers a grave digger for Protoss rather than a game-winning move.
The Flash Build gives Terran a lot of flexibility in what they want to do as well as upgrade advantage into mech deathball. During the tech-switch, there's a also timing window and Flash exploits that very well.
On March 06 2011 15:58 LightningStrike wrote: Can somone due winners interviews plz Thanks in advance
Interviews usually don't come for a little while right after a game. They have to do the lulzy group photoshoots, and then actually do the interviews themselves and such.
Plus I'm sick, so I don't know if I can stay up and translate them.
Thanks for the kind words MoonBear and pinkranger15 ^^ The interview will either get sniped by another translator, or the Chinese sites will forget about translating the Korean to Chinese, so if the interview doesn't get sniped, then I'll translate it tomorrow~ No guarantees though since my cold might go outta control tomorrow. ><;;
In the meantime, here's Bisu meeting his old teammates~
Bisu see, Bisu do~
Fantasy: "Tyson, you forgot something." Tyson: "That's right! I forgot to wear my lucky underwear today!! But it's okay, since I'll totally own you today~"
1 win in 8 matches. And Sea can't seem to win 2 games in a row.
MBC coaches need to do something fast to stop the rot. Maybe they should just start playing rookies since the senior players are dropping so many games anyway.
A win at last, but poor MBC Hero... SKT should sharp up and win against other "enemy" teams too lol. Great to see the players being very friendly with each other.
On March 06 2011 15:55 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: I am speechless. Aside from a game where Bisu beat Flash with Carriers (a long time ago), I can't remember another live match other than this one where's he's pulled it off.
KTY making a point! He must have gotten confused and thought it was practice.
I don't ever remember Bisu beating Flash with Carriers.. but I do remember Carrier victories over Hwasin in MSL, Mind in OSL and FBH in MSL. I don't know of any other Carrier victories lol..
Well I bow to your BW knowledge mate. I'm no doubt getting confused with a lesser Terran. It was about a year ago now, and my memory's like a sieve.
Point being it's damn rare to see Bisu win with his "practice Carriers"
On March 06 2011 15:55 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: I am speechless. Aside from a game where Bisu beat Flash with Carriers (a long time ago), I can't remember another live match other than this one where's he's pulled it off.
KTY making a point! He must have gotten confused and thought it was practice.
On March 06 2011 18:43 newvsoldschool wrote: The winner played better according to a picture with grades on it.
Shocking revelation.
Sarcasm not welcome. I brought it up because they bothered doing something like this with small descriptions on the match-ups (as in #3 making a funny comment about the tank behind the tree).
Also the fact that Soo got a D grade in his game or that you can obviously judge how close the game was or whether or not it would be "recommendable" to watch it by the relative grades. It's already there, so why not post it here?
On March 06 2011 15:55 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: I am speechless. Aside from a game where Bisu beat Flash with Carriers (a long time ago), I can't remember another live match other than this one where's he's pulled it off.
KTY making a point! He must have gotten confused and thought it was practice.
He did against Light and Hwasin ages ago.
He also used them against Mind during Korean Air OSL S2.
On March 07 2011 12:22 Ryo wrote: It could be that twitter is a distraction for the MBC players. Hyun just quit, maybe the rest should follow suit.
Damn dude, I read that as "twitter is distracting MBC from the fact that Hyun quit BW" the first four times, and then was very confused by the "maybe the others should follow" comming from such an MBC fanboy as yourself. I've regained my breath.
On March 06 2011 18:43 newvsoldschool wrote: The winner played better according to a picture with grades on it.
Shocking revelation.
Sarcasm not welcome. I brought it up because they bothered doing something like this with small descriptions on the match-ups (as in #3 making a funny comment about the tank behind the tree).
Also the fact that Soo got a D grade in his game or that you can obviously judge how close the game was or whether or not it would be "recommendable" to watch it by the relative grades. It's already there, so why not post it here?
He didn't realize that the quality of the grades makes a difference.
As in a D < C game is not as good as a B < A game.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rsc4p.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mGzLh.png)
![[image loading]](http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4020/underbanner.png)
Truth lies within the banner. If it is truth you want, then click the banner.![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/4.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/uniforms/1.png){kind=icon}
SK Telecom T1 vs MBCGame HERO![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/uniforms/4.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/237_Fighting%20Spirit_thumbnail.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/1388/predictions.png)
![[image loading]](http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7901/lineups.png)
n.Die_soO< Bloody Ridge > ![[image loading]](http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/1637/resultso.png)
![[image loading]](http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5451/gamesce.png)
Let's hope they pull out a win here. 
![[image loading]](http://img.dailygame.co.kr/news/201103/attachments/20110306_75501ab45f957c21c9c7df021fef2e2d.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.dailygame.co.kr/news/201103/attachments/20110306_35fe1e0a55abb69da7547a9831a873b8.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/GViBK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/6UfGv.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GxNsX.jpg)
