[SWL] KT Rolster vs Samsung KHAN - Page 54

On February 15 2011 20:24 Jackal03 wrote:
KTchin strikes again

On February 15 2011 20:29 okum wrote:
It seems like a curse for Flash; he always has to lose one game after ~8-10 wins

On February 15 2011 20:29 okum wrote:
It seems like a curse for Flash; he always has to lose one game after ~8-10 wins

On February 15 2011 20:22 ShadeR wrote:
Kespa: WE SHALL HAVE BEST OF 7 MATCHES!
KT managment: but wont that.....
Kespa: WITH DOUBLE WINNERS LEAGUE
KT managment: *TROLLFACE*

On February 15 2011 20:36 hauton wrote:
Can someone detail what Stork did VS Flash?

Stork double gas steals
Flash scans Stork's nat but doesn't see expo
While Stork pulls a 4 proxy gate all-in?

What was Flash's build? Rax CC?

On February 15 2011 20:37 Tianx wrote:

Hahaha this is way too accurate

On February 15 2011 20:39 TwoToneTerran wrote:


Yep, that's basically it.

Stork opens up the game with a gas steal, starts a gateway in the meantime. Flash Rax CCs as it's the only thing to do in that situation, but Stork steals his second gas as he nears his expansion completing, so Flash pulls tons of SCVs to kill the gas steal in his main. Stork proceeds to proxy gateways until he's up to 4 and go a massive dragoon rush against Flash's 1 bunker which dies before even his first tank gets out.

On February 15 2011 21:03 hauton wrote:

Neato.

Sounds like Stork pulled an all-in build that's designed to bait then punish Rax CC, which has become Flash's signature as of late. FvP has been defined by 12 Nex being negated or wholly countered by Rax CC, so it's only natural that Flash would encounter this. Just like when he used to go 14CC every game, people punished him for it.

Totally fair, and had Khan transitioned that into a win, it would've been brilliant. Flash is unlikely to fall for the same thing again, and even clever variations of this all rely on Flash having poor scouting and starsense - not exactly a sure bet. All in all, meaningless since it didn't produce the results. But definitely clever, and absolutely fair.

On February 15 2011 20:04 Musou wrote:


I wouldn't really call it revolutionizing, but he plays a style where for bio TvZ he continually denies the third, which other players haven't done. Then there was the goliath timing push he used against JD in the MSL. In TvT he hasn't really done anything except play with his starsense and make some amazing comebacks, like those games vs Mind and Baby a few days ago. Most of his TvT is just beating his opponents even with a BO loss, not anything new.

On February 15 2011 20:01 Invictus wrote:


Right. He just played with perfect MnM control, and has star sense. Thats it. He didn't create the valkonic build, he didnt create the 2 port wraith build. He just showed us insane control

On February 15 2011 21:32 Ryo wrote:

New builds does not equal revolutionizing a matchup. He's very innovative yes but revolutionizing TvZ and TvT is another thing altogether.

On July 02 2010 00:57 Ver wrote:


Capablanca lose? Hah!

Modern players are no more robotic than older ones; the strategies and mechanical levels just have changed. The major innovations have always been made by just a few each generation while the vast majority simply follow the accepted trends. The modern era is hardly different than any other except in the sheer quantity of games played.

Flash alone in the past 3 years has innovated just as much if not more than Boxer had in 6-7 years. Just because you can't see the creativity doesn't mean it isn't there.

On April 07 2010 05:05 Ver wrote:
It's almost all due to Flash. He's completely changed of TvZ in a number of areas.

People might say the maps since they only know how to judge on (usually useless) statistics but 1) Flash is heavily inflating those stats because he's went 41-7 on his TvZ streak even including power outage games and 2) Flash's reforms have enormously influenced how Terrans play on the maps.

Before Flash finalized the new Terran lategame concepts maps like Fighting Spirit, among others, were just horrible for Terrans late game. Now Terrans are all winning late game on maps like Moon Glaive/FS/Tornado that they would normally never be able to because Flash taught them how to. In addition the early aggression against 2 hatch mutas has really flipflopped that whole approach which Zergs had favored for over a year. Zergs are kind of in a rut struggling and in the current proleague season most if not all of them are slumping across the board.

And furthermore some of these maps are more Zerg favored than previous season ones. The past OSL's pool of HBR/EotS/El Nino/FS is easily one of the best pools for ZvT in starleague history and better than Outsider/HBR/Holy World/RotK and Medusa/RotK/TotM/SCR. Obviously the atrocious Odd Eye and questionable Ultimatum made the MSL quite good for Terran too so it's not all around worse, but there hasn't been a large influx of advantageous Terran maps without equivalent ones for Zergs.

On April 07 2010 11:05 Ver wrote:


Yes stats are impacted by all the top players at their peaks. But not to the extent that Flash has, because well, they never went anywhere near 41-7 in a matchup. Also the other races are a bit more decentralized in how they innovate. With Terran almost all of the recent innovations have been from Flash, the lone major exception being the late game Mech switch in TvZ started by Fantasy and Midas. It should be very obvious that without his new strategies Terrans would be doing a lot worse since this is the period when Zergs simply don't have answers to those strategies.

And yes he most certainly did inspire them too. It's a common occurrence for an era's racial domination to be spearheaded by their best player and was addressed in a few interviews in the last year about Jaedong and 'swarm season.' Thus it is no surprise that Flash is doing the same when he is impacting his race and the game far beyond what Jaedong ever did.

Judge for yourself his impact:

Ever 09 OSL TvZ stats: 14-18 (44%)
TvZ without Flash: 5-17 (23%)

Non-Flash TvZ SPL 1/2: 54-45 (54.5%) (With Flash it is up to 63-46 [57.8%])
Non-Flash TvZ WL: 56-35 (61.5%) (With Flash 62-35 [63.9%])

Note how Flash heavily boosts the statistics in Terran's favor as well as the TvZ increase over time as he invents more strategies and the other Terrans begin to understand them.

On April 06 2010 12:31 Ver wrote:


Oh really? Like Valkonic? Like actually pressuring muta openings instead of just turtling. Like economic optimization? Like 3 hatch muta threat while powering drones? Prove it or quit the silliness.

Boxer isn't even in the same galaxy as oov and Savior in terms of quality/quantity of innovation and influence, and Flash is not far behind.

On April 06 2010 13:19 koreasilver wrote:

No, that game against Killer game after every Terran on SKT1 was experimenting with mech builds. In fact, back when SKT1 first started experimenting and started the whole mech era phase, Boxer was still on ACE. Fantasy was the first person that used valk builds in the modern context in a way of a viable build that has the stability and strength to be used as a "standard" build rather than as just a 1-time use novelty.

And Boxer really pales in comparison to iloveoov and Savior when it comes to how much they have influenced the way people think and play today. Much more so for iloveoov. A lot of people discredit Flash and still disparage him as a "macro bot" and it's so infuriatingly annoying because Flash is hands down the most influential player of post-Savior BW. Yes, Bisu was the one that fully nailed forge fe stargate play as the absolute standard in PvZ but Flash also really changed how TvP is played since Katrina and his style of upgrade Terran in TvP has prevailed as the standard even when Fantasy had a great deal of success with his own different style. In TvZ he had blown up the mentality of defending within your base during mutalisk timing. And it happened all of a sudden right in everyone's face, and so many people don't realize how big of a deal it was. Flash broke like 3-4 years of TvZ mentality against mutalisks in a single game and then he also stomped on the mentality that letting a Zerg take his fourth gas is a death sentence for the Terran. These are years standard thought that Flash pretty much destroyed in weeks.

Flash deserves recognition for being the one that has pretty much lead almost every lasting Terran innovation in his time since Savior. There is no Zerg or Protoss player that can claim the same.