Last season, there were 2 teams classified as too one man-centric, JaedongOZ and KTFlash, respectively. What happened afterwards was that the other members of KT Rolster started performing to the chagrin of a lot of SKT fans, and they are now considered a dominant force, if not the favorite to win the Proleague. Jaedong OZ, on the other hand, remained just that, Jaedong OZ. While HiYa went quite far in the individual leagues and the WCG Korea, he wasn't enough to get the team to the play-offs, puncuated by a humiliating loss to Air Force ACE, of all teams (Granted, the games that round were won by HiYa and Perfectman, and Killer of all people was sent for Ace, but this shouldn't be an excuse for that loss). Now they are facing STX Soul, one of the deepest teams in the Proleague, and HiYa has lost both his games last week. BackHo hasn't been sent out after his single loss to Snow, and Killer has demonstrated both a good capability of getting a huge lead and an even better tendency to blow it all anyway. Even Jaedong's wins haven't been drastic enough to showcase the true capabilities of the tyrant. He almost lost to stats*, and hydra isn't exactly known for... anything at all, to be honest. While any of the above are still a threat, in the future Oz will have to make use of their almost never seen bench and make them work for their money. Or bring Anytime/ForGG back. Either way, the light at the end of the tunnel is far away (especially if the rumors of Anytime playing SC2 are true).
As for STX, they have been on a tear. They brought down Samsung and ACE pretty easily, which admittedly is not the greatest feat in this new format, but still pretty ominous to the still reeling OZ. Any opponent of STX will have a hard time guessing who will be played (similarly to SKT), since there are extremely good players of every race on the team. Even the previous under performers like Trap and Bogus have produced games rivaling any non-S class player in the last week alone, and Classic and Hyvaa are no pushovers. This is not even the core lineup! Calm still feels a bit shaky, but Shuttle and Kal are scary as hell in this Protoss favouring environment. by.hero and Modesty are more than a match against any non-JD Zerg, though in other matchups, I'd not bet on them. (Modesty vs. BeSt doesn't count, BeSt played horribly in that game.)
The true value of STX will be shown in real challenges, such as SKT, KT and Woongjin, but that will have to wait. As of now, Hwaseung OZ awaits, and I don't see STX losing that one.
STX wins 4-2. (Fanboyism might or might have not influenced these predictions. At least I tried.) *Correction - didn't follow the match too properly. While JD did lose a lot of units unnecessarily, he had built up a significant advantage by that point and nullified any chance stats had of pressuring him with his air superiority. The tyrant still lives, but that doesn't change the big picture.
Good comeback, but the usual game quality of this season makes both look like amateurs. A nicely executed mid-game attack, I'll admit, but no recommendation unless you are really bummed out on there being no BW streams.
Poll: Would you recommend game 1?
Yes (7)
64%
No (2)
18%
Check it out if you have time. (2)
18%
11 total votes
Your vote: Would you recommend game 1?
(Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): Check it out if you have time.
Apparently the loser was disqualified for pausing the game manually. There is no game to speak of. Will update if there is more information. I WILL give you a poll to vent in, though.
Poll: Would you recommend game 2?
I don't want to talk about it. (21)
42%
KeSPA is stupid. (20)
40%
KeSPA is just. (9)
18%
50 total votes
Your vote: Would you recommend game 2?
(Vote): KeSPA is stupid. (Vote): KeSPA is just. (Vote): I don't want to talk about it.
I have no idea what the loser tried to accomplish with his opening, but it was punished badly and a prompt gg is the result. I'm too confused to recommend this, but my first thought is... "no."
Poll: Would you recommend game 3?
No (22)
96%
Yes (1)
4%
Check it out if you have time. (0)
0%
23 total votes
Your vote: Would you recommend game 3?
(Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): Check it out if you have time.
After a failure to ward off his choke from lings, things only went downhill for the loser. A nice mutabattle, and a nice breaking of a choke, but then again, this IS a ZvZ. Your choice.
Poll: Would you recommend game 4?
Yes (12)
44%
No (9)
33%
Check it out if you have time. (6)
22%
27 total votes
Your vote: Would you recommend game 4?
(Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): Check it out if you have time.
(Vote): Hwaseung OZ (Vote): STX SouL (Vote): I'm conflicted.
Poll: Who will win?
STX SouL (47)
63%
Hwaseung OZ (17)
23%
Blizzard cancels the match before it ends. Everybody loses. (10)
13%
I forgot to liquibet and therefore don't care. (1)
1%
75 total votes
Your vote: Who will win?
(Vote): Hwaseung OZ (Vote): STX SouL (Vote): I forgot to liquibet and therefore don't care. (Vote): Blizzard cancels the match before it ends. Everybody loses.
On October 24 2010 22:48 Ryo wrote: STX has too much depth, I can't see STX losing more than 2 games. Blizzard won't try to shut down the match though, cos it's at OGN.
Doesn't an injunction on Proleague cover the entire event?
On October 24 2010 22:48 Ryo wrote: STX has too much depth, I can't see STX losing more than 2 games. Blizzard won't try to shut down the match though, cos it's at OGN.
Doesn't an injunction on Proleague cover the entire event?
Okay, found the quote from Milkis. I can't verify whether the info is correct but he shld know better than me:
Well then if they are going to court it means that there is going to be a lot of time before the issue gets resolved and until then its business as usual....
Not really. They can file for an injunction to prevent KeSPA from going forward until there is a ruling.
hmmm.....
Is there a downside to gretech for filing an injunction?I know this is really no the place to ask this...
fyi injunctions aren't the end of the story
what kespa is probably gonna do is put in a bail and go on with it while the trial is ongoing. you can do that in korea apparently if it relates to IP rights.
On October 24 2010 22:48 Ryo wrote: STX has too much depth, I can't see STX losing more than 2 games. Blizzard won't try to shut down the match though, cos it's at OGN.
Doesn't an injunction on Proleague cover the entire event?
Okay, found the quote from Milkis. I can't verify whether the info is correct but he shld know better than me:
Well then if they are going to court it means that there is going to be a lot of time before the issue gets resolved and until then its business as usual....
Not really. They can file for an injunction to prevent KeSPA from going forward until there is a ruling.
hmmm.....
Is there a downside to gretech for filing an injunction?I know this is really no the place to ask this...
fyi injunctions aren't the end of the story
what kespa is probably gonna do is put in a bail and go on with it while the trial is ongoing. you can do that in korea apparently if it relates to IP rights.
*squeels like a bisu fangirl/boy* This might make a believer out of me.
clam will lose his match again and the entire STX would die once again! Kal will lose his match against Jaedong and Hwaseung OZ 4-0s STX.(entirely fanboy biased view)
That said STX has a high chance of winning this. Please buck up OZ
On October 25 2010 01:21 alypse wrote: That pic of Calm is very badass.
Sure as hell is. I'm such a fanboy, lol. And Ryo's picture doesn't help much either. EDIT: Am I imagining things or are there really many STX haters there. ?
On October 25 2010 01:21 alypse wrote: That pic of Calm is very badass.
Calm, post Lasik (and if rumors are to be believed, with gf):
0_o looks so diffferent w/o glasses. In fact all Koreans look like another person when they have glasses on/off. Have you guys seen Fantasy without glasses?
On October 25 2010 10:37 zerious wrote: Jesus will save Oz
Nothing can save Oz now.
I was never a huge fan of Oz but I hope for once that they win. It is really depressing to see Jaedong suffer because of his teammates (as sad as it was seeing KTFlash struggle for seasons before other players pick up their game).
Piratezerg, Ozsucksballswithoutme, and moustache zerg are good backups to Jaedong actually I think Oz has a chance to 4-0 this, any person can really predict this, come on guys...
On October 25 2010 09:15 Sillylaughs wrote: What? There was not a single moment in the game vs Stats where Jaedong was behind...
There was one where JD lost his entire mutalisk army for very little gain. I was on the edge of my seat the entire game thinking JD would lose from that, but later watched it again, thanks to you, and saw it was quite even all the time.
Gosh, I want OZ to win, because Jaedong seriously deserves it. Ach, this is so bad. Hope lomo, backho, killer or a random b-teamer can step it up, like ggaemo.
On October 25 2010 12:54 whitelynx wrote: Gosh, I want OZ to win, because Jaedong seriously deserves it. Ach, this is so bad. Hope lomo, backho, killer or a random b-teamer can step it up, like ggaemo.
funny thing that if these lineups happend oz would probally have a chance rofl
Trap losing to perfectman? Perfectman won with a buildorder-win against Tempest, and Trap's win against M18M was WAY more impressive. And I won't believe HiyA can defeat Calm until I see it with my own eyes. I'm with sheep on this, Calm can and will (at least one day) beat Jaedong.
On October 25 2010 16:59 Ryo wrote: I dunno, I think Calm kind of loses his edge without the glasses. Although he does look better without them. Strange irony.
Glasses on - badass mode. Glasses off - pretty-boy. All the worse that he turns into a clam every once in a while. Offtopic: no-one is making a hite vs. KHAN thread?
On October 25 2010 17:34 Hazard wrote: Oz Jaedong can pull out a win like ACE did recently.
Perhaps against MBC. STX is currently on an entirely different level. They have an actual coaching team, no recent lawsuits threating their sponsor directly and they have more performing players than 2 + Show Spoiler [MBC matches spoilers] +
maybe even one, since Light isn't looking too well
I hope we get to see BackHo. When he's on, he's on. I hope we get to see that tonight.
Other than that hope, I'm just planning on watching a complete smackdown. There's no way that Oz could handle STX. We have a ton of players that other teams would kill for and a couple guys who are star players. Oz has Jaedong, HiyA on a good day, and a bunch of B-team-like guys.
OZ will win this one. Killer beats Modesty, Jaedong beats Calm, Hiya beats Really, Jaedong owns Kal/Calm/whatever in Ace match. Or something like that.
On October 25 2010 17:57 MisteR wrote: OZ will win this one. Killer beats Modesty, Jaedong beats Calm, Hiya beats Really, Jaedong owns Kal/Calm/whatever in Ace match. Or something like that.
I'll literally stop bashing Killer the moment he beats modesty. And I think by Really you mean Classic.
JAEDONG OZ will have real problems to win any games this season with BO7 format. They certainly will not beat STX - unfortunately. Anyways go Jaedong, show us the zerg feast.
On October 25 2010 17:57 MisteR wrote: OZ will win this one. Killer beats Modesty, Jaedong beats Calm, Hiya beats Really, Jaedong owns Kal/Calm/whatever in Ace match. Or something like that.
I'll literally stop bashing Killer the moment he beats modesty. And I think by Really you mean Classic.
Woops yep, should've said Classic. Killer is actually better at zvz than at zvt, shockingly enough.
Nexus goes down, perfectman on 2 gate goes for robo tech. Last lays down mines in choke. Perfectmans attempt to defuse mines ends with a zealot and a goon dead. Rebuilds expansion.
On October 25 2010 17:57 MisteR wrote: OZ will win this one. Killer beats Modesty, Jaedong beats Calm, Hiya beats Really, Jaedong owns Kal/Calm/whatever in Ace match. Or something like that.
I'll literally stop bashing Killer the moment he beats modesty. And I think by Really you mean Classic.
Woops yep, should've said Classic. Killer is actually better at zvz than at zvt, shockingly enough.
Not saying much - Killer fails so hard at ZvT. He's the zerg that got nuked twice by the semi-retired Boxer.
Great push forces Last to lift his 3rd. His vultures were out of position laying mines in the path units would take to stop the drop at PerfectMan's 4th. The Protoss heads into the nat. Great execution.
EDIT: Last loses his dropship with 2 tanks in it after killing that 4th in the top right...
On October 25 2010 17:57 MisteR wrote: OZ will win this one. Killer beats Modesty, Jaedong beats Calm, Hiya beats Really, Jaedong owns Kal/Calm/whatever in Ace match. Or something like that.
I'll literally stop bashing Killer the moment he beats modesty. And I think by Really you mean Classic.
Woops yep, should've said Classic. Killer is actually better at zvz than at zvt, shockingly enough.
Not saying much - Killer fails so hard at ZvT. He's the zerg that got nuked twice by the semi-retired Boxer.
That's my point. Everyone remembers his zvt games while he actually is pretty decent at the other matchups.
Last pushes out and gets his nat and third back. Unfortunately the Protoss is putting his 4th back down and going for a 5th in only unclaimed main at top left.
Anyways, perhaps Perfectman's future is looking slightly bright? I can't help but feel slightly optimistic. He's on a two win streak! same amount of wins as JD and 2 more than the rest of Oz combined!
However, I must say he got lucky when he attacked, Last's main vulture force was nowhere near his tank line, and it all snowballed from there.
On October 25 2010 19:59 Darth Saros wrote: Sorry to say this, but that Terran is done. Perfectman is like a reality check-if you can't beat him, you shoud reconsider your career.
On October 25 2010 19:57 rainei wrote: Anyways, perhaps Perfectman's future is looking slightly bright? I can't help but feel slightly optimistic. He's on a two win streak! same amount of wins as JD and 2 more than the rest of Oz combined!
On October 25 2010 19:57 rainei wrote: shit, missed the ceremony. what happened?
Anyways, perhaps Perfectman's future is looking slightly bright? I can't help but feel slightly optimistic. He's on a two win streak! same amount of wins as JD and 2 more than the rest of Oz combined!
However, I must say he got lucky when he attacked, Last's main vulture force was nowhere near his tank line, and it all snowballed from there.
Lol, that's some really powerful optimism. He did some sort of dance with his hand on his chin and a little pelvic thrusting, I think.
Ooh interesting. Frozen's best matchup is actually tvp! Backho might just be a very good draw for STX. Jesus would've liked to play a toss and against the stacked STX that would've seemed likely. However, Backho is unpredictable and can suddenly turn on the awesome.
On October 25 2010 20:08 MisteR wrote: Ooh interesting. Frozen's best matchup is actually tvp! Backho might just be a very good draw for STX. Jesus would've liked to play a toss and against the stacked STX that would've seemed likely. However, Backho is unpredictable and can suddenly turn on the awesome.
That's why I like him so much. When he's not playing at his standard level he can have some of the best reaver micro I've ever seen.
On October 25 2010 20:17 Sinensis wrote: I don't think in my entire time watching the proleague I've ever seen a pause before PPP. OZ just doesn't want to win this season.
there were like 2 times I think, aside this one, Jesus, that is so...
The only thing I don't get is how this can still happen in 2010. Nal_ra lost a game in this way something like five years ago, and there was even that debate about whether it has to be "pp" or "ppp". This should have settled in programers' heads by now...
What the hell, can't you just warn him or something? Cuteangel seems to be disappointed as well, he would probably rather be playing a televised match than get default win. And BackHo or jesus or whatever you name is,were you born yesterday? Since when can you pause a game just by yourself? OZ had a chance of winning for once and you blew it.
I understand that rules are rules and need to be followed. But does anyone in the building actually think that restarting the game would've been a huge issue? The game hadn't even really started. It's not as though it would've had any impact to resume, but it wouldn't have wasted any time at all to simply restart.
I've heard of kespa being dumb, but I don't think I was prepared for something like this.
probably because he was nervous or something lol (commentator said something about monitor problem, but paused before typing PPP, not sure if it's true though)
On October 25 2010 20:20 RookM wrote: I understand that rules are rules and need to be followed. But does anyone in the building actually think that restarting the game would've been a huge issue? The game hadn't even really started. It's not as though it would've had any impact to resume, but it wouldn't have wasted any time at all to simply restart.
I've heard of kespa being dumb, but I don't think I was prepared for something like this.
This might be a worthy debate if it hadn't been Backho - the guy who won a game by typing "gg" before his opponent. I think he used up all of his byes from Kespa at that point...
On October 25 2010 20:20 RookM wrote: I understand that rules are rules and need to be followed. But does anyone in the building actually think that restarting the game would've been a huge issue? The game hadn't even really started. It's not as though it would've had any impact to resume, but it wouldn't have wasted any time at all to simply restart.
I've heard of kespa being dumb, but I don't think I was prepared for something like this.
It's Backho's fault. He's no rookie, who pauses first before pp/ppp?
On October 25 2010 20:20 RookM wrote: I understand that rules are rules and need to be followed. But does anyone in the building actually think that restarting the game would've been a huge issue? The game hadn't even really started. It's not as though it would've had any impact to resume, but it wouldn't have wasted any time at all to simply restart.
I've heard of kespa being dumb, but I don't think I was prepared for something like this.
What? Game loss is the only correct decision. How is there even a debate about this?
On October 25 2010 20:20 RookM wrote: I understand that rules are rules and need to be followed. But does anyone in the building actually think that restarting the game would've been a huge issue? The game hadn't even really started. It's not as though it would've had any impact to resume, but it wouldn't have wasted any time at all to simply restart.
I've heard of kespa being dumb, but I don't think I was prepared for something like this.
Whether it would have been a problem or not isn't the issue. It's that leniency toward game interrupting actions will lead to them being abused.
Thanks everyone for explaining the backho instaloss thing. As I said, I understand the need for rules like this. And I wasn't arguing that the ruling should be reversed at all; I was simply commenting on how strict kespa was on the matter.
I'm perfectly fine with it, it just caught me off guard is all. Wasn't expecting it, but I'm not mad or anything.
another confirmation of how low-level OZ is now, if not for JD and Magicarp, I dont know, this is so sad, why not buy just somebody less retarted? oh OZ
OZ isn't that low level though. Please take into account that their beloved coach has been fired. Also, the individual players aren't so bad, and even perfectman is winning games. Hiya would be the terran ace on most other teams, while Jaedong is of course one of the two bonjwas of our time. Lomo, Killer and Backho are decent players but weak in some matchups (or just plain unpredictable like Backho).
One thing however is for sure and that is that OZ is weak against terrans. That STX has played three terrans already and still has one excellent terran left (Classic) shows that they've understood this weakness.
On October 25 2010 20:47 MisteR wrote: OZ isn't that low level though. Please take into account that their beloved coach has been fired. Also, the individual players aren't so bad, and even perfectman is winning games. Hiya would be the terran ace on most other teams, while Jaedong is of course one of the two bonjwas of our time. Lomo, Killer and Backho are decent players but weak in some matchups (or just plain unpredictable like Backho).
One thing however is for sure and that is that OZ is weak against terrans. That STX has played three terrans already and still has one excellent terran left (Classic) shows that they've understood this weakness.
well, wouldn't be so confident, where are the results? I tend to agree on the fact that Hiya is ok, but others? are you kidding me? Its just now that Perfectman got lucky, Killer is only Sometimes can pull it against some other mediocrity, others, well, they are just sitting on a bench. I never understood the coaches of this team, sending Killer to play ACE every single game, god, I understand he has to play to learn, but when he doesn't deliver? I'm still strongly insist that OZ must buy someone.
That's generally pretty good for STX. I mean, you generally are going to count on JD winning and while I'd prefer he get matched against one of our weaker Terrans instead of Hero, at least he didn't get matched against an ace. We should be able to play Calm and Kal to take it 4-2.
On October 25 2010 20:58 thopol wrote: That's generally pretty good for STX. I mean, you generally are going to count on JD winning and while I'd prefer he get matched against one of our weaker Terrans instead of Hero, at least he didn't get matched against an ace. We should be able to play Calm and Kal to take it 4-2.
I haven't seen Calm yet this season: in the end of the last one he was in really bad shape.
JvZ still has rock solid as ever. Several interesting spots in that game. Breaking up a fully concaved ramp with extremely nice micro. JD could have ended it early with his extra lings due to his 12hatch vs 12pool, but they decided to run laps inside the protected expo. Extremely nice micro during the first muta-scourge battle, taking out all of hero's scourge and not getting hit. Had it gone the other way, JD would have lost many drones, since it was right over his base. Ling distraction to snipe a few gas drones, and finally having Hero supply blocked forever near the end.
On October 25 2010 20:47 MisteR wrote: OZ isn't that low level though. Please take into account that their beloved coach has been fired. Also, the individual players aren't so bad, and even perfectman is winning games. Hiya would be the terran ace on most other teams, while Jaedong is of course one of the two bonjwas of our time. Lomo, Killer and Backho are decent players but weak in some matchups (or just plain unpredictable like Backho).
One thing however is for sure and that is that OZ is weak against terrans. That STX has played three terrans already and still has one excellent terran left (Classic) shows that they've understood this weakness.
well, wouldn't be so confident, where are the results? I tend to agree on the fact that Hiya is ok, but others? are you kidding me? Its just now that Perfectman got lucky, Killer is only Sometimes can pull it against some other mediocrity, others, well, they are just sitting on a bench. I never understood the coaches of this team, sending Killer to play ACE every single game, god, I understand he has to play to learn, but when he doesn't deliver? I'm still strongly insist that OZ must buy someone.
Well they do seem to lack a good pvt player, but possibly perfectman can fill up that void. Besides that, both Backho and Lomo have shown to be able to win games when it counts. Remember the playoffs against SKT a while back? It was Lomo who brought it to ace after Jaedong lost against Orion of all people. Killer is a great talent and I don't know if you've seen his zvz, but it's impressive. His zvp is pretty good as well taking a game of Movie when the toss player was in his invincible pvz days. His zvt is terrible, but his fighting spirit still allows him to eek out a win here and there.
OZ has been one of the dominant teams of starcraft and although they've lost quality after both Anytime and ForGG left their team, they were the second best team only two seasons ago.
Saying Perfectman got lucky is to me, a sign of a lack of knowledge. Luck is when preparation and opportunity meet.
On October 25 2010 20:58 thopol wrote: That's generally pretty good for STX. I mean, you generally are going to count on JD winning and while I'd prefer he get matched against one of our weaker Terrans instead of Hero, at least he didn't get matched against an ace. We should be able to play Calm and Kal to take it 4-2.
I haven't seen Calm yet this season: in the end of the last one he was in really bad shape.
But last season isn't the last time we saw him. He played pretty well in the STX masters cup iirc.
On October 25 2010 20:58 thopol wrote: That's generally pretty good for STX. I mean, you generally are going to count on JD winning and while I'd prefer he get matched against one of our weaker Terrans instead of Hero, at least he didn't get matched against an ace. We should be able to play Calm and Kal to take it 4-2.
I haven't seen Calm yet this season: in the end of the last one he was in really bad shape.
But last season isn't the last time we saw him. He played pretty well in the STX masters cup iirc.
He beat both ForGG and Flash in it. I wouldn't count him out by any margin.
Calm had a very nice game vs. Flash on Fighting Spirit, interesting style, very reminiscent of YellOw, with a relentless assault at Flash's nat. Granted Flash probably wasn't practicing very much for it, but it was still a very nice game from both players with Calm coming out on top.
Wow match of the night. Hiya is one of the best tvp players out there and he's up against Kal, STX ace who's best matchup is pvt. This could go either way.
On October 25 2010 20:47 MisteR wrote: OZ isn't that low level though. Please take into account that their beloved coach has been fired. Also, the individual players aren't so bad, and even perfectman is winning games. Hiya would be the terran ace on most other teams, while Jaedong is of course one of the two bonjwas of our time. Lomo, Killer and Backho are decent players but weak in some matchups (or just plain unpredictable like Backho).
One thing however is for sure and that is that OZ is weak against terrans. That STX has played three terrans already and still has one excellent terran left (Classic) shows that they've understood this weakness.
well, wouldn't be so confident, where are the results? I tend to agree on the fact that Hiya is ok, but others? are you kidding me? Its just now that Perfectman got lucky, Killer is only Sometimes can pull it against some other mediocrity, others, well, they are just sitting on a bench. I never understood the coaches of this team, sending Killer to play ACE every single game, god, I understand he has to play to learn, but when he doesn't deliver? I'm still strongly insist that OZ must buy someone.
Well they do seem to lack a good pvt player, but possibly perfectman can fill up that void. Besides that, both Backho and Lomo have shown to be able to win games when it counts. Remember the playoffs against SKT a while back? It was Lomo who brought it to ace after Jaedong lost against Orion of all people. Killer is a great talent and I don't know if you've seen his zvz, but it's impressive. His zvp is pretty good as well taking a game of Movie when the toss player was in his invincible pvz days. His zvt is terrible, but his fighting spirit still allows him to eek out a win here and there.
OZ has been one of the dominant teams of starcraft and although they've lost quality after both Anytime and ForGG left their team, they were the second best team only two seasons ago.
Saying Perfectman got lucky is to me, a sign of a lack of knowledge. Luck is when preparation and opportunity meet.
its still difficult for me to judge clearly, as I can only read game comments now, but still anyway, as I said, to talk about how OZ is actually a nice team after all, for me, sounds a bit sarcastic now. But I will be only happy if Perfectman, Killer and Lomo will catch their pace, oh, did I just tell that? hehe
On October 25 2010 20:47 MisteR wrote: OZ isn't that low level though. Please take into account that their beloved coach has been fired. Also, the individual players aren't so bad, and even perfectman is winning games. Hiya would be the terran ace on most other teams, while Jaedong is of course one of the two bonjwas of our time. Lomo, Killer and Backho are decent players but weak in some matchups (or just plain unpredictable like Backho).
One thing however is for sure and that is that OZ is weak against terrans. That STX has played three terrans already and still has one excellent terran left (Classic) shows that they've understood this weakness.
well, wouldn't be so confident, where are the results? I tend to agree on the fact that Hiya is ok, but others? are you kidding me? Its just now that Perfectman got lucky, Killer is only Sometimes can pull it against some other mediocrity, others, well, they are just sitting on a bench. I never understood the coaches of this team, sending Killer to play ACE every single game, god, I understand he has to play to learn, but when he doesn't deliver? I'm still strongly insist that OZ must buy someone.
Well they do seem to lack a good pvt player, but possibly perfectman can fill up that void. Besides that, both Backho and Lomo have shown to be able to win games when it counts. Remember the playoffs against SKT a while back? It was Lomo who brought it to ace after Jaedong lost against Orion of all people. Killer is a great talent and I don't know if you've seen his zvz, but it's impressive. His zvp is pretty good as well taking a game of Movie when the toss player was in his invincible pvz days. His zvt is terrible, but his fighting spirit still allows him to eek out a win here and there.
OZ has been one of the dominant teams of starcraft and although they've lost quality after both Anytime and ForGG left their team, they were the second best team only two seasons ago.
Saying Perfectman got lucky is to me, a sign of a lack of knowledge. Luck is when preparation and opportunity meet.
its still difficult for me to judge clearly, as I can only read game comments now, but still anyway, as I said, to talk about how OZ is actually a nice team after all, for me, sounds a bit sarcastic now. But I will be only happy if Perfectman, Killer and Lomo will catch their pace, oh, did I just tell that? hehe
That wasn't anything close to an even game. Ordinarily I wouldn't recommend something that one-sided, but Kal's DT thing was entertaining. After that it's only entertaining in the same way that Romans thought blind people fighting in the Colosseum was entertaining.
This Bo7 format is going to literally kill the team, can't rely on Jaedong Oz to carry. Also, why the hell is PerfectMan suddenly starting to win games? Madness!.
On October 25 2010 21:39 MisteR wrote: Huge win for Kal, he really is on the top of his game right now. Hiya seems to be descending into a slump, something OZ can't use at all.
Wut? Hiya in a slump? Yes, he lost three games. But these were to Leta, Flash and Kal, all very strong players. Compare it to Jangbi's 0-4 games - there is a slump, no doubt.
On October 25 2010 21:39 MisteR wrote: Huge win for Kal, he really is on the top of his game right now. Hiya seems to be descending into a slump, something OZ can't use at all.
Wut? Hiya in a slump? Yes, he lost three games. But these were to Leta, Flash and Kal, all very strong players. Compare it to Jangbi's 0-4 games - there is a slump, no doubt.
True. It might just be a fluke. Still, I expect Hiya to give Kal a much better game, and actually to beat Leta. Jangbi, indeed, is pretty far in.
Calm is near unbeatable in zvz. Still, it's better for Killer to face Calm rather than Classic. Killer has huge determination but it's unlikely that he can do anything against Calm's superb zvz.
Well well. Killer shows his killer instinct again. This fella is so good under pressure... Calm should've done better, but I guess he's the kind of player that ups his game against strong opponents and loses when the pressure is low.
Killer played OK, but Calm played really bad. He was poking around Killer's ramp for like 30 seconds just looking and being like "oh wow, he has a bunch more lings than me. I better put up a sunk, that's what to do." Calm hates zerglings.
Honestly.. this is like the first time ever i did not bet on OZ. I deserve that bad LB start. But I'm still pumped up. We actually have a really good chance to carry this thing home. Oz HWAITING!
slightly nervous, as ZvZ can be a bit of a coinflip, but we all know JD plays with a weighted coin, while Modesty knows how to toss this ZvZ coin quite well it seems.
Sholudn't be a huge surprise, Modesty did well against JD last season. That was however during JD's ZvZ slump, nad now he's like 29-5 or something since his last loss against him.
Typical STX. Calm would've been the superior choice, even if he did just lose to Killer. Modesty is however the zvz sniper and Jaedong won't have an easy game. On the other hand, this is motherfucking Jaedong and not just some scrub. I doubt Modesty will be able to take this.
Calm once stated that his semifinal against JD in the Hana Daetoo MSL made him forget how to play ZvZ. I guess it's true. His one really good matchup is now in ruins...
On October 25 2010 21:57 TimeOut wrote: Was that intended as a ... PerfectMan snipe or something? Sending a Z as ACE vs. OZ makes no sense.
Modesty is known to be a ZvZ sniper, it is his best match up.
I think they may have done this before in the last season as well and succeeded.
Hmm, ok. But I think that it was a different thing in the last season, compared to JD now. Still probably the best choice, considering how volatile ZvZ can be at times.
On October 25 2010 21:59 MisteR wrote: Typical STX. Calm would've been the superior choice, even if he did just lose to Killer. Modesty is however the zvz sniper and Jaedong won't have an easy game. On the other hand, this is motherfucking Jaedong and not just some scrub. I doubt Modesty will be able to take this.
Calm hasn't been a superior choice for anything for a couple months.
On October 25 2010 21:59 MisteR wrote: Typical STX. Calm would've been the superior choice, even if he did just lose to Killer. Modesty is however the zvz sniper and Jaedong won't have an easy game. On the other hand, this is motherfucking Jaedong and not just some scrub. I doubt Modesty will be able to take this.
There's the sniper factor, and there's also the factor that ZvZ has more random chance involved. Not exactly random, and JD is known to win regardless, but there is the build order advantage factor. Pull a lucky draw and it will give you an advantage, even against the Dong.
On October 25 2010 21:59 MisteR wrote: Typical STX. Calm would've been the superior choice, even if he did just lose to Killer. Modesty is however the zvz sniper and Jaedong won't have an easy game. On the other hand, this is motherfucking Jaedong and not just some scrub. I doubt Modesty will be able to take this.
There's the sniper factor, and there's also the factor that ZvZ has more random chance involved. Not exactly random, and JD is known to win regardless, but there is the build order advantage factor. Pull a lucky draw and it will give you an advantage, even against the Dong.
EDIT: @ above: Except beating Flash...
I think it's more the fact that ZvZ is the only hope they have of beating JD
Modesty = slight chance of winning, as opposed to zero chance of winning. They might as well forfeit instead of send a Terran or Protoss (from STXs lineup)
On October 25 2010 21:59 MisteR wrote: Typical STX. Calm would've been the superior choice, even if he did just lose to Killer. Modesty is however the zvz sniper and Jaedong won't have an easy game. On the other hand, this is motherfucking Jaedong and not just some scrub. I doubt Modesty will be able to take this.
Calm hasn't been a superior choice for anything for a couple months.
That's true. However, Modesty isn't that reliable either. For an ace match you need to play your ace players. Calm's confidence is only sinking more and more as lesser players like hero and Modesty get the nod over him. It actually would've been the perfect situation for Calm to redeem himself, playing his best matchup, playing two games in a row which is advantageous, and having to take revenge for his loss. I think STX missed the ball to give Calm the trust and support that he needs through playing him in the ace match.
On October 25 2010 21:59 MisteR wrote: Typical STX. Calm would've been the superior choice, even if he did just lose to Killer. Modesty is however the zvz sniper and Jaedong won't have an easy game. On the other hand, this is motherfucking Jaedong and not just some scrub. I doubt Modesty will be able to take this.
Calm hasn't been a superior choice for anything for a couple months.
That's true. However, Modesty isn't that reliable either. For an ace match you need to play your ace players. Calm's confidence is only sinking more and more as lesser players like hero and Modesty get the nod over him. It actually would've been the perfect situation for Calm to redeem himself, playing his best matchup, playing two games in a row which is advantageous, and having to take revenge for his loss. I think STX missed the ball to give Calm the trust and support that he needs through playing him in the ace match.
I think the real answer is to send in CUTEANGEL!!!!
On October 25 2010 21:59 MisteR wrote: Typical STX. Calm would've been the superior choice, even if he did just lose to Killer. Modesty is however the zvz sniper and Jaedong won't have an easy game. On the other hand, this is motherfucking Jaedong and not just some scrub. I doubt Modesty will be able to take this.
Calm hasn't been a superior choice for anything for a couple months.
hm, yes, but he still took a game off JD like Modesty, and won JD in bo5 remember, I guess STX relies heavily on snipers still.
On October 25 2010 22:11 Taosu wrote: Murphy's Law: 1) You always guess right all liquibets that don't count. 2) When liquibets start bringing points, you start guessing wrong.
Right. STX shoots themselves in the foot yet again by trying to be too smart. Poor Modesty. Jaedong is boss and OZ finally finds a win. There is still live in them yet. Perfectman and especially Killer have stepped up were Hiya and especially Backho have stepped down. The OZ coach will have a lot of work to do to get Hiya back to form and Jesus needs a slap in the face.
STX... Why no Classic by the way? What's up with playing Last when you have Classic? And Modesty for ace... I feel for the players, but the coach screws up yet again.
I think that will go down as the biggest fail of the season. Seriously, what the fuck was that?
Great to see Oz winning again! It's been so sad to see JD lose all the time (with his team that is, not his own games of course). Hopefully this could serve as a boost to their morale. ^__^
What is there left to say about jvz... in every aspect of the matchup he is better than anyone else. When you watch him play it's just hard to believe that people once considered this matchup mostly luck based.
edit: Obviously in this game he didn't need to show much... I just refer to the big picture
Well, that was a bit of a failed snipe. But there really isn't any team but SKT and KT that have players capable of playing at the level of Jaedong, so no surprise. Congratulations to Oz though. Also wtf is this, Perfectman and Killer are the ones that bail JD out?
Predicting team standings this season, we probably forgot the big advantage Oz has - a huge fan support. ^__^ I think it's like 2rd-3rd team by popularity, at least among the foreigners.
On October 26 2010 02:49 MangoTango wrote: What is a Modesty and how come he thinks he can beat Jaedong in ZvZ?
Because he beat JD twice last spring. But JD got his ZvZ mojo back on top of Calm's dead body in the MSL semis and since then neither of the STX Zergs has been the same.
Agreed, Modesty was (theoretically) a good choice, he has already been used as JD sniper and succeeded, plus he was probably practising solely on this map. STX doesn't have a solid terran to stand a chance against JD and PvZ is an uphill battle. It's a little surprising to see Killer and Perfectman helping OZ to victory, but maybe this will start them up towards more consistent future wins. Well done OZ.
Would somebody be so kind and translate the winners' interviews (if they are available)? Thank you in advance.
i was like O_O when i saw Modesty at ace match. Why???? Why him?
Kal at least standed some chance, cause his pvz is rather good. Losing-winning streaks vs some player don't matter in Ace match i think. T_T Neither Modesty's 2 wins over JD, nor 4-15 of Kal vs JD. I think the top player of a team (what obviously is Kal) was the best choice... -____-
Oz played decently in all games, especially Hiya and Killer's dramatical losses vs Entus (both played really well). They just needed some luck. Here, despite the lack of luck AGAIN (jesus lol), they managed to win. I think they're a decent team, not the outsiders.
On October 26 2010 04:31 _Quasar_ wrote: i was like O_O when i saw Modesty at ace match. Why???? Why him?
Kal at least standed some chance, cause his pvz is rather good. Losing-winning streaks vs some player don't matter in Ace match i think. T_T Neither Modesty's 2 wins over JD, nor 4-15 of Kal vs JD. I think the top player of a team (what obviously is Kal) was the best choice... -____-
Apart from their last series Kal usually plays mediocre PvZ against JD...
Modesty was the smartest choice STX had, maybe frozen.
On October 26 2010 04:44 pred470r wrote: Not that I wanna derail the thread, but some one on the stream said that osl is starting on the 29th, any one else heard something like that?
Yes, I heard both OSL and MSL are starting qualifiers this week.
On October 26 2010 10:10 KizZBG wrote: Should have sent Classic instead of Last/Calm.
One of the psychological problems of STX is that a lot of players must want to play and justify their choice of carreer that way. Last hasn't been played for a long while, and Calm isn't actually a bad choice for ZvZ. Hence we have seen Trap, Last and FrOzen played, and I will not be surprised in the slightest if they send Hyvaa or SoO out to play.
I'd also like to submit Jaehoon's *BOOOM* face from his match against M18M the other day to the funny-face competition. Much's protective attitude towards his teammates seems to be rubbing off.
Jaehoon: hey, i hear ggaemo's on your team now M18M: yep Jaehoon: lolz, that guy's full of fail. have u seen that gif of him hydra mine defusing? rofl M18M:...kk, gg gl hf yo M18M: oh, btw Jaehoon Jaehoon: ???
Thoughts on games as i watched (Oz fans perspective):
Perfectman about to finaly win a game?? Then having somehow the worst macro ever (or just leaving troops at rally) and not expanding. What the fuck was he doing. He makes every attack looks like a last ditch all-in attempt in an easily won game. I know terran can hold on for a long time but this was ridiculous, Last managed to re-establish his base constantly. I know you could say he was just taking it easy because he knew it was a won game, but thats bullshit. I think Fantasy or someone good could have even came back from it. Unfortunately unlike Sky[Kal] i can't see any future potential in him.
Hiya i thought was playing well but Kal was using every Protoss trick in the book and exploiting the invisibility constantly. I know he was in a tough position but he should have given up and moved back once he took out the 3rd and put some pressure on the main 2 bases, not let him carry on macroing and sneak off secret expos and do recalls. He seemed to have a lack of units and i know its hard to expand TvP but he had to go past 3 bases at some point. The macro difference was too big.
Killer not much to say, ZvZ but if he can beat Calm then he's showing hes getting better
EPT
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HiyA < Grand Line SE > 
Jaedong < Fortress > 
BackHo < Empire of the Sun > ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/g5u8y.png)
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Hwaseung OZ 4-3 STX SouL![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/uniforms/5.png){kind=icon}
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