On September 12 2010 00:35 Musoeun wrote: It still remains that Flash has beaten Jaedong the last four consecutive BoX they've played, three of them finals. I don't know if you count that as "helplessness", but it's beyond insanely impressive.
Then the word isn't really applicable. The term was made for Savior and so Flash should be judged against that. Savior was not bonjwa because he had crazy good records, it was because no matter what opponents did, Savior just did not lose. You went in thinking, "jeeeez, who the hell can beat this guy."
And here I've been thinking that of Flash during most of his 2009-2010 season... I guess I was mistaken.
On September 12 2010 00:35 Musoeun wrote: It still remains that Flash has beaten Jaedong the last four consecutive BoX they've played, three of them finals. I don't know if you count that as "helplessness", but it's beyond insanely impressive.
Then the word isn't really applicable. The term was made for Savior and so Flash should be judged against that. Savior was not bonjwa because he had crazy good records, it was because no matter what opponents did, Savior just did not lose. You went in thinking, "jeeeez, who the hell can beat this guy."
Come on, are you trying to tell us that you didn't think the same of Flash this last year? People have thrown everything at him (remember Winner's League Final for example?) and he still found a way to win. There's not been a single game Flash has played for like the last year where he hasn't been the huge favourite, with the exception of JD. Now that exception is removed.
Honestly if you didn't think stuff like "who the hell can beat this guy?" after games like his semifinal against Fantasy or whatever then you're seriously in a very tiny minority.
On September 12 2010 00:35 Musoeun wrote: It still remains that Flash has beaten Jaedong the last four consecutive BoX they've played, three of them finals. I don't know if you count that as "helplessness", but it's beyond insanely impressive.
Then the word isn't really applicable. The term was made for Savior and so Flash should be judged against that. Savior was not bonjwa because he had crazy good records, it was because no matter what opponents did, Savior just did not lose. You went in thinking, "jeeeez, who the hell can beat this guy."
In that sense, neither Flash nor Jaedong are like that because the game has produced players where this cannot happen anymore. Both are crazy amazing and dominant, just Flash turns out to be better in the head to head.
edit:
I'm saying, to me at least, the term is outdated and doesn't really fit to anyone anymore.
i hope you realize savior didn't even qualify for OSL a few times because he lost in the prelims. and it's not like he never dropped games either, he just never dropped sets which is what flash is doing and doing it better.
Okay. If you have the power to make another bonjwa candidate, greatest series player of all time, best Zerg of all time, the most skilled in history into a modern day yellow you are a blasted bonjwa.
On September 12 2010 01:20 Warrior Madness wrote: Okay. If you have the power to make another bonjwa candidate, greatest series player of all time, best Zerg of all time, the most skilled in history into a modern day yellow you are a blasted bonjwa.
On September 12 2010 01:20 Warrior Madness wrote: Okay. If you have the power to make another bonjwa candidate, greatest series player of all time, best Zerg of all time, the most skilled in history into a modern day yellow you are a blasted bonjwa.
What?
he's saying that Flash deserves to be bonjwa because he turned Jaedong into the modern-day Yellow
On September 12 2010 01:20 Warrior Madness wrote: Okay. If you have the power to make another bonjwa candidate, greatest series player of all time, best Zerg of all time, the most skilled in history into a modern day yellow you are a blasted bonjwa.
What?
he's saying flash has turned jaedong into a modern day yellow(always finishing 2nd).
On September 12 2010 01:20 Warrior Madness wrote: Okay. If you have the power to make another bonjwa candidate, greatest series player of all time, best Zerg of all time, the most skilled in history into a modern day yellow you are a blasted bonjwa.
What?
he's saying flash has turned jaedong into a modern day yellow(always finishing 2nd).
Last three starleague finals combined record: Flash 9 > JD 3
On September 12 2010 00:47 darkmetal505 wrote: The term was made for Savior and so Flash should be judged against that. Savior was not bonjwa because he had crazy good records, it was because no matter what opponents did, Savior just did not lose. You went in thinking, "jeeeez, who the hell can beat this guy."
sAviOr was a royal roader for the OSL he won, which was his last individual title. So he hadn't qualified for any of the previous seasons of the OSL.
Flash has made dual finals three times consecutively and won 2 OSLs and 2 MSLs from those six finals.
sAviOr was really amazing but I can't see your reasoning for not allowing Flash to be a Bonjwa as well. Especially since three of Flash's titles have come against a fellow Bonjwa candidate. sAviOr beat NaDa for his OSL but the players he defeated to win his MSL finals were not of Jaedong's caliber.
On September 12 2010 00:35 Musoeun wrote: It still remains that Flash has beaten Jaedong the last four consecutive BoX they've played, three of them finals. I don't know if you count that as "helplessness", but it's beyond insanely impressive.
Then the word isn't really applicable. The term was made for Savior and so Flash should be judged against that. Savior was not bonjwa because he had crazy good records, it was because no matter what opponents did, Savior just did not lose. You went in thinking, "jeeeez, who the hell can beat this guy."
In that sense, neither Flash nor Jaedong are like that because the game has produced players where this cannot happen anymore. Both are crazy amazing and dominant, just Flash turns out to be better in the head to head.
edit:
I'm saying, to me at least, the term is outdated and doesn't really fit to anyone anymore.
On September 12 2010 00:35 Musoeun wrote: It still remains that Flash has beaten Jaedong the last four consecutive BoX they've played, three of them finals. I don't know if you count that as "helplessness", but it's beyond insanely impressive.
Then the word isn't really applicable. The term was made for Savior and so Flash should be judged against that. Savior was not bonjwa because he had crazy good records, it was because no matter what opponents did, Savior just did not lose. You went in thinking, "jeeeez, who the hell can beat this guy."
Come on, are you trying to tell us that you didn't think the same of Flash this last year? People have thrown everything at him (remember Winner's League Final for example?) and he still found a way to win. There's not been a single game Flash has played for like the last year where he hasn't been the huge favourite, with the exception of JD. Now that exception is removed.
Honestly if you didn't think stuff like "who the hell can beat this guy?" after games like his semifinal against Fantasy or whatever then you're seriously in a very tiny minority.
I guess my interpretation of the dominance is different from the majority then. I judge players mostly on my gut feeling. When I looked at Savior, I kept thinking "even if his opponent practiced 24 hours a day and Savior didn't practice at all, there is still no chance they would win." That's what I attribute the word Bonjwa to.
I got really close to that feeling for Bisu after he beat Savior, but I'm sorry that I've never completely felt that with Flash. I can honestly say, without any bias, that with good preparation, players like Jaedong, Effort, and Fantasy still have he ability to take a win over Flash in a BoX. This just based on the quality of the games and not the results. Just like I believe that players like Flash, Bisu, and Stork have the ability to beat Jaedong in a BoX. If anything, the games between Fantasy and Flash showed to me that there are people who can dance at the top.
Out of the past 3 finals between Flash and Jaedong, the first one was the only one where I felt Flash's dominance and Jaedong had no idea what to do. These past two just didn't feel like it showed the true skill of either player because of factors in game. Right now, I can't honestly look in your face and say that Flash will roflpwn Jaedong every time they meet from henceforth.
The reason I say this is, again, is because Broodwar has evolved into a machine that spits out these cookie cutter monsters. The dominance of these players is not akin to the dominance of the Four Kings. It's just a different feeling. The time period to make the next Bonjwa died with Bisu and it's too bad he couldn't. No doubt Flash (and he's fucking amazing) has the crown right now, but it's not the same, and thus I feel like the word Bonjwa just doesn't fit.
EPT
