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On August 12 2010 21:14 corumjhaelen wrote:I think some might want to reread this article. It shows that the match up evolves when the players innovates, and that there is a little more to the TvZ imba than meets the eye. Time for a Zerg to find a counter to that imba mech transition ! And also remember what were the maps when sAviOr made dual finals... Jaedong and EffOrt are not out, and the OSL is far from over too.
yeah that thread owns, does anyone know if theres a similar one for pvz or pvt?
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On August 12 2010 19:59 Lann555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 19:57 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 12 2010 19:56 InFdude wrote:
T is just bs. I have to admit that theses days, zergs REALLY struggle. Yeah, there are only 4 in the last 8. What a disgrace
Doesn't mean much unfortunately.
S class terran have an incredible winrate against zergs theses days.
Since Nate MSL, Light is 26 - 2 in TvZ. That's something like 92%. Flash is 20 - 5, with 4 of his 5 loses to EffOrt. That's 80%. Remove Effort and that's a pretty 95% vs non-Effort Zergs.
Fantasy is 16 - 4 since Hana Daetoo MSL. That's 80% too.
And ForGG is 14 - 6 in his last 20 TvZ. 70%. Yes sir.
Zerg still manage even against very good players like Sea or Leta. They do even very well against lesser gamers. But at the moment the metagame really favors top class terrans in TvZ.
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Glad to see Flash advanced. Fantasy vs Flash should be good 
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As a Calm fan, it must be said that he didn't lose because of any imba (although maybe PR), but because he's just been very bad at ZvT for the last year. This result was as predictable as it was depressing.
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On August 13 2010 00:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 19:59 Lann555 wrote:On August 12 2010 19:57 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 12 2010 19:56 InFdude wrote:
T is just bs. I have to admit that theses days, zergs REALLY struggle. Yeah, there are only 4 in the last 8. What a disgrace Doesn't mean much unfortunately. S class terran have an incredible winrate against zergs theses days. Since Nate MSL, Light is 26 - 2 in TvZ. That's something like 92%. Flash is 20 - 5, with 4 of his 5 loses to EffOrt. That's 80%. Remove Effort and that's a pretty 95% vs non-Effort Zergs. Fantasy is 16 - 4 since Hana Daetoo MSL. That's 80% too. And ForGG is 14 - 6 in his last 20 TvZ. 70%. Yes sir. Zerg still manage even against very good players like Sea or Leta. They do even very well against lesser gamers. But at the moment the metagame really favors top class terrans in TvZ.
Sure, TvZ is pretty lopsided these days, but I just don't get why Zerg-fans here keep playing the vicitim when they have a similary easy matchup. Jaedong/Effort have been rocking 80%+ winrates ZvP in the last 18 months. And Zergs are also still winning Starleagues every season. How many seasons has it been since Zerg didn't win one of the starleagues? Seems to me they are still doing fine overall, yet every time a big name Zerg loses to a Terran, you have 3 pages filled with anti-terran rage.
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why cant zergs bitch about tvz? im sure most zergs would admit pvz is pretty horrendous, but so what? why cant they have a bitch about their 'hard' matchup too?
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Eh. I don't think there's a problem so long as for each game played on Polaris Rhapsody, there's one played on Flight-Dreamliner.
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On August 13 2010 00:46 Lann555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 00:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 12 2010 19:59 Lann555 wrote:On August 12 2010 19:57 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 12 2010 19:56 InFdude wrote:
T is just bs. I have to admit that theses days, zergs REALLY struggle. Yeah, there are only 4 in the last 8. What a disgrace Doesn't mean much unfortunately. S class terran have an incredible winrate against zergs theses days. Since Nate MSL, Light is 26 - 2 in TvZ. That's something like 92%. Flash is 20 - 5, with 4 of his 5 loses to EffOrt. That's 80%. Remove Effort and that's a pretty 95% vs non-Effort Zergs. Fantasy is 16 - 4 since Hana Daetoo MSL. That's 80% too. And ForGG is 14 - 6 in his last 20 TvZ. 70%. Yes sir. Zerg still manage even against very good players like Sea or Leta. They do even very well against lesser gamers. But at the moment the metagame really favors top class terrans in TvZ. Sure, TvZ is pretty lopsided these days, but I just don't get why Zerg-fans here keep playing the vicitim when they have a similary easy matchup. Jaedong/Effort have been rocking 80%+ winrates ZvP in the last 18 months. And Zergs are also still winning Starleagues every season. How many seasons has it been since Zerg didn't win one of the starleagues? Seems to me they are still doing fine overall, yet every time a big name Zerg loses to a Terran, you have 3 pages filled with anti-terran rage.
4 Terrans with great TvZ compared 2 zergs with great ZvP. Eh, that's comparable, but maybe if we had a 60% ZvT map like Polaris Rhapsody for PvZ it'd be better.
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Calm is so badddd, cant blame him though these maps are pretty biased.
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On August 13 2010 00:46 Lann555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 00:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 12 2010 19:59 Lann555 wrote:On August 12 2010 19:57 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 12 2010 19:56 InFdude wrote:
T is just bs. I have to admit that theses days, zergs REALLY struggle. Yeah, there are only 4 in the last 8. What a disgrace Doesn't mean much unfortunately. S class terran have an incredible winrate against zergs theses days. Since Nate MSL, Light is 26 - 2 in TvZ. That's something like 92%. Flash is 20 - 5, with 4 of his 5 loses to EffOrt. That's 80%. Remove Effort and that's a pretty 95% vs non-Effort Zergs. Fantasy is 16 - 4 since Hana Daetoo MSL. That's 80% too. And ForGG is 14 - 6 in his last 20 TvZ. 70%. Yes sir. Zerg still manage even against very good players like Sea or Leta. They do even very well against lesser gamers. But at the moment the metagame really favors top class terrans in TvZ. Sure, TvZ is pretty lopsided these days, but I just don't get why Zerg-fans here keep playing the vicitim when they have a similary easy matchup. Jaedong/Effort have been rocking 80%+ winrates ZvP in the last 18 months. And Zergs are also still winning Starleagues every season. How many seasons has it been since Zerg didn't win one of the starleagues? Seems to me they are still doing fine overall, yet every time a big name Zerg loses to a Terran, you have 3 pages filled with anti-terran rage.
I know. I'm terran player and terran fan myself.
This serie made me sad, but now I realize that Clam has been bad at ZvT for over a year, so I guess it's fine.
Don't like Fantasy's style, though. Can't really explain why.
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Go fantasy, keep creating builds that cause zerg tears!
You transitioned into Mech lategame.
It wasn't a completely new build. I wanted to use it since a while ago but yesterday was the first time I used it in a televised match. Before I went to sleep last night, I had resolved to use the build, but because it was my first time, I didn't play as well as I could have. In the midgame, I thought I was ahead by 8:2 but I got sloppy with my defense. Because I haven't used it as much my hands aren't used to executing it but next time I will show a much cleaner execution of it. Nowadays, once a Zerg gets 4 gas it's almost impossible for Terran to win and this build was specifically to counter that. I think we will see this build much more often now.
Was it a build Oov helped you with?
Usually all the Terrans in SKT, not just Coach Oov share strategies that are helpful, but this time it was all on my own.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=109690
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Okay. Just watched the rep of Flash v forgg set 2 (first one played today). Mind explosion.
That bunker play.
omfg.
how.
HOW.
That's it, I'm an eternal Flash fan now. Who even THINKS about that being a possibility?? bunker + 2 scv's vs a moving vulture?? and that scv micro... that micro!!!
Sorry I'm just a little blown away right now lol excuse the Flash-worship
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The best possible TvT is Flash vs. SkyHigh.
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On August 13 2010 01:16 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 00:46 Lann555 wrote:On August 13 2010 00:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 12 2010 19:59 Lann555 wrote:On August 12 2010 19:57 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 12 2010 19:56 InFdude wrote:
T is just bs. I have to admit that theses days, zergs REALLY struggle. Yeah, there are only 4 in the last 8. What a disgrace Doesn't mean much unfortunately. S class terran have an incredible winrate against zergs theses days. Since Nate MSL, Light is 26 - 2 in TvZ. That's something like 92%. Flash is 20 - 5, with 4 of his 5 loses to EffOrt. That's 80%. Remove Effort and that's a pretty 95% vs non-Effort Zergs. Fantasy is 16 - 4 since Hana Daetoo MSL. That's 80% too. And ForGG is 14 - 6 in his last 20 TvZ. 70%. Yes sir. Zerg still manage even against very good players like Sea or Leta. They do even very well against lesser gamers. But at the moment the metagame really favors top class terrans in TvZ. Sure, TvZ is pretty lopsided these days, but I just don't get why Zerg-fans here keep playing the vicitim when they have a similary easy matchup. Jaedong/Effort have been rocking 80%+ winrates ZvP in the last 18 months. And Zergs are also still winning Starleagues every season. How many seasons has it been since Zerg didn't win one of the starleagues? Seems to me they are still doing fine overall, yet every time a big name Zerg loses to a Terran, you have 3 pages filled with anti-terran rage. 4 Terrans with great TvZ compared 2 zergs with great ZvP. Eh, that's comparable, but maybe if we had a 60% ZvT map like Polaris Rhapsody for PvZ it'd be better.
Dreamliner - 75% in Zergs favour.
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Oh yeah, OSL is balanced in the way that imbalances cancel out :O But PR is in all three leagues. WCG too.
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On August 13 2010 00:46 Lann555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 00:02 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 12 2010 19:59 Lann555 wrote:On August 12 2010 19:57 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 12 2010 19:56 InFdude wrote:
T is just bs. I have to admit that theses days, zergs REALLY struggle. Yeah, there are only 4 in the last 8. What a disgrace Doesn't mean much unfortunately. S class terran have an incredible winrate against zergs theses days. Since Nate MSL, Light is 26 - 2 in TvZ. That's something like 92%. Flash is 20 - 5, with 4 of his 5 loses to EffOrt. That's 80%. Remove Effort and that's a pretty 95% vs non-Effort Zergs. Fantasy is 16 - 4 since Hana Daetoo MSL. That's 80% too. And ForGG is 14 - 6 in his last 20 TvZ. 70%. Yes sir. Zerg still manage even against very good players like Sea or Leta. They do even very well against lesser gamers. But at the moment the metagame really favors top class terrans in TvZ. Sure, TvZ is pretty lopsided these days, but I just don't get why Zerg-fans here keep playing the vicitim when they have a similary easy matchup. Jaedong/Effort have been rocking 80%+ winrates ZvP in the last 18 months. And Zergs are also still winning Starleagues every season. How many seasons has it been since Zerg didn't win one of the starleagues? Seems to me they are still doing fine overall, yet every time a big name Zerg loses to a Terran, you have 3 pages filled with anti-terran rage.
Maybe it's because Zerg actually has a bad match-up, whereas PvT is still quite even. Protoss of course is the worst off, but that really is a problem with PvT and not PvZ.
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It's first time in ages when a non Flash terran got into semis of any league (seriously, go check it yourself) and zerg fanboys are all over the place. But keep it coming, the whining only makes every terran win so much sweeter.
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And honestly I expect Jaedong to get to the finals of this MSL anyway. Not sure why people are writing him off after losing the first game in a BO5. Short term memory I guess.
Besides, Sea will revert to his old habit of choking hardcore
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EPT
