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Baa?21242 Posts
On August 12 2010 20:13 Lann555 wrote:
I don't see how Jaedong played better then Sea. In fact, I thought Jaedong played rather poorly after early game. Effort, kind of the same. Wasted so much gass on guards (which never work ZvT) and then played very uncoordinated lategame.
So you don't know how the game works so you think Jaedong and Effort played worse. Lol ok.
And if Terran is bullshit, because TvZ is unbalanced, isn't Zerg bullshit because ZvP is just as imbalanced (probably even worse)?
Terran is bullshit cause T > Z and T basically = P despite what Terrans like to think. ZvP imbalance is present, but still less than TvZ. Much less. Hell there was a time when P > Z when Bisu beat Savior. Nothing even close to that ever happened with ZvT. During "Swarm Season" ZvT winrate was about 51% lol T_T
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Boy it's like the entire forum is slowly turning into Highways.
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On August 12 2010 20:13 Lann555 wrote:Show nested quote +
Light and Sea both won despite playing worse than Effort and Jaedong, and Polaris is coming up again. Not to mention Triathlon and Odd-Eye. If by some miracle a Zerg makes the Ro4 it will be by the sheer incompetence of the Terran, and there would have to be a LOT of incompetence for a Terran to lose on these maps.
And I fail to see how Protoss doing poorly affects the fact that Terran is bullshit.
I don't see how Jaedong played better then Sea. In fact, I thought Jaedong played rather poorly after early game. Effort, kind of the same. Wasted so much gass on guards (which never work ZvT) and then played very uncoordinated lategame. And if Terran is bullshit, because TvZ is unbalanced, isn't Zerg bullshit because ZvP is just as imbalanced (probably even worse)?
The point is, I think, that terran seems to have no difficult mu anymore. If you add to that the fact that they play turtle mech which is horrible from a spectators perspective and that one notable terran (Sea) just said in an interview that there is no way for zerg to beat a terran on an average map without the terran doing some kind of mistake, the flaming becomes more understandable.
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On August 12 2010 20:15 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
So you don't know how the game works so you think Jaedong and Effort played worse. Lol ok.
Yes, that is what I think. Explain to me exactly what Jaedong or Effort did in those games that qualifies as 'outplaying' the Terran
Terran is bullshit cause T > Z and T basically = P despite what Terrans like to think. ZvP imbalance is present, but still less than TvZ. Much less. Hell there was a time when P > Z when Bisu beat Savior. Nothing even close to that ever happened with ZvT. During "Swarm Season" ZvT winrate was about 51% lol T_T
Actually, long term winrates in TvZ and ZvP are roughly equal. Sure there was a short time in BW history where P>Z, but that was followed by Swarm Season, where Protoss lost just about every game to Z for a very long time.
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On August 12 2010 20:15 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Terran is bullshit cause T > Z and T basically = P despite what Terrans like to think. ZvP imbalance is present, but still less than TvZ. Much less. Hell there was a time when P > Z when Bisu beat Savior. Nothing even close to that ever happened with ZvT. During "Swarm Season" ZvT winrate was about 51% lol T_T
So, you have no problem with Bisu beating Savior 3:0, but Jeadong beating Flash 3:1 is not the case?
I dont see many differences between T>Z and Z>P. If there are, than explain this. All i see are Zergs taking majority trophies in 2009 and 1/2 of the trophies in 2010. They were always overepresented race in the final, just count this shit.
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On August 12 2010 20:19 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Boy it's like the entire forum is slowly turning into Highways.
haha highways is mint though, he's been preaching the good word for years
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On August 12 2010 20:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 20:07 okum wrote:On August 12 2010 20:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
He also got cheesed twice >.> A sunken break without sunkens isn't cheese. And regarding the last game, it's Calm's fault for 12 hatching like clockwork on two player maps. I take it back, 3 Rax Sunken break isn't cheese, it's just total bullshit with no drawbacks. All you're sacrificing is a few SCVs in the early game, and if Zerg doesn't scout you at the exact right time there'll be no way for him to react in time. Lose your expo? Woops you're 1 v 2 bases. Lose a few too many Drones? Woops you're 1.5 v 2 bases. Oh, you played perfectly and defended? Yay you're 2 base vs 2 base. And yes, let's blame Calm for doing the standard Zerg opening in ZvT. Cause then it's obviously his fault lol.
3 rax is do or die (it was "only" 2 raxes though iirc, which used to be considered common btw). If the Zerg scouts it and makes sunkens in time, Terran will be stuck with 1 base or a very late nat and will most likely have to defend perfectly in order to have a chance at all.
As someone said above, if it was so reliably effective players would do it a lot more (which would change the whole metagame of the matchup in the process).
Zergs just don't have good ZvTs these days except for Jaedong. And MSL maps aren't exactly helping either.
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Well, maps are garbage indeed.
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How did this turn into yet another ''T is imba''-discussion? -__-
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On August 12 2010 20:34 Holgerius wrote:
How did this turn into yet another ''T is imba''-discussion? -__-
we must confront the truth head on, rather than run away from it
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On August 12 2010 20:34 Holgerius wrote:
How did this turn into yet another ''T is imba''-discussion? -__-
Fantasy beaten Clam 3-0. As we know, this should have never happened. So if it did, its simply becouse of T's being imba XD
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On August 12 2010 20:21 Lann555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 20:15 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
So you don't know how the game works so you think Jaedong and Effort played worse. Lol ok.
Yes, that is what I think. Explain to me exactly what Jaedong or Effort did in those games that qualifies as 'outplaying' the Terran Show nested quote +
Terran is bullshit cause T > Z and T basically = P despite what Terrans like to think. ZvP imbalance is present, but still less than TvZ. Much less. Hell there was a time when P > Z when Bisu beat Savior. Nothing even close to that ever happened with ZvT. During "Swarm Season" ZvT winrate was about 51% lol T_T
Actually, long term winrates in TvZ and ZvP are roughly equal. Sure there was a short time in BW history where P>Z, but that was followed by Swarm Season, where Protoss lost just about every game to Z for a very long time.
Proof?
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[QUOTE]On August 12 2010 20:21 Lann555 wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 12 2010 20:15 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
[QUOTE]
Terran is bullshit cause T > Z and T basically = P despite what Terrans like to think. ZvP imbalance is present, but still less than TvZ. Much less. Hell there was a time when P > Z when Bisu beat Savior. Nothing even close to that ever happened with ZvT. During "Swarm Season" ZvT winrate was about 51% lol T_T [/QUOTE]
Actually, long term winrates in TvZ and ZvP are roughly equal. Sure there was a short time in BW history where P>Z, but that was followed by Swarm Season, where Protoss lost just about every game to Z for a very long time.
[/QUOTE]
long term winrates are probably unreliable, you should probably look at winrates for the past year
the past season or 2 protoss has been doing pretty well against zerg, you get the 6 dragons, stats, horang2, movie
also for most off the current maps (except dreamliner) the tvz winrate is like 67%
and you get 1/2 zerg starleagues in 2010 due to a power outage and 3 consecutive allins
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Just relax, both JD and Effort are not out yet, why are you Zerg's panic in the first place? Did you really expect that Calm-in-slump could beat fantasy in current not-so-bad form?
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On August 12 2010 20:07 Lann555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 20:05 hitthat wrote:
Its clear. Zerg and Terran players are in majority crybabies. Zergs whining against terrans and they dont want to confess that they are ripping protoss apart in similar manner that Terrans are ripping Zergs. They ignoring the dfact that Zergs had the most players in finals (and probably semis) of all races.
Terrans were crybabies against the protoss for years. No metter that Protoss are infact the least succesfull race of all. Ye, you have a point. Next time Jaedong or Effort beats a Protoss, just mention for fun that ZvP seems a little lopsided. You'll instantly get swarmed by fanboys claiming that the Protoss just got totally outplayed and deserved to lose. ah..good times..
I don't think that's really true infact i see people saying all the time that ZvP is ridiculous.
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Norway1530 Posts
PoorGG 
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On August 12 2010 21:11 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2010 20:07 Lann555 wrote:On August 12 2010 20:05 hitthat wrote:
Its clear. Zerg and Terran players are in majority crybabies. Zergs whining against terrans and they dont want to confess that they are ripping protoss apart in similar manner that Terrans are ripping Zergs. They ignoring the dfact that Zergs had the most players in finals (and probably semis) of all races.
Terrans were crybabies against the protoss for years. No metter that Protoss are infact the least succesfull race of all. Ye, you have a point. Next time Jaedong or Effort beats a Protoss, just mention for fun that ZvP seems a little lopsided. You'll instantly get swarmed by fanboys claiming that the Protoss just got totally outplayed and deserved to lose. ah..good times.. I don't think that's really true infact i see people saying all the time that ZvP is ridiculous.
It's a known and accepted fact. The terran fanboys just won't admit the same about TvZ. They should listen to Sea.
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I think some might want to reread this article.
It shows that the match up evolves when the players innovates, and that there is a little more to the TvZ imba than meets the eye. Time for a Zerg to find a counter to that imba mech transition !
And also remember what were the maps when sAviOr made dual finals...
Jaedong and EffOrt are not out, and the OSL is far from over too.
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On August 12 2010 20:19 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Boy it's like the entire forum is slowly turning into Highways.
oh come on, you don't like to see him appear every time a protoss gets curb stomped?
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bw forum turns into sc2 forum with the imba talk stop it plz - -;
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EPT
