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Obviously I'm biased but I think Flash fans have overall been pretty gracious/rational given the circumstances. We've definitely seen worse fan outbursts (like Stork vs Shine). Of course there's always a few dumb posts but most people seem to agree that:
1. No matter how it happens, if you are down 2-0 to the best player in the game and come back to win 3-2, it's an amazing feat.
2. Flash did not play up to his usual standard
Anyway, I still think people aren't talking enough about Flash's failed ramp block in game 4. While he was already behind with a failed B(plus canceled B)S, there was NO EXCUSE for failing to block that ramp with SCVs given that he had 5 Marines and knew the exact Zergling timing (his SCV came back to his base with the Zerglings so it wasn't even like his timing could have been off - he could literally see the lings the whole time). By losing 4 Marines instead of blocking his ramp off and just holding steady, that made it possible for Effort to scout Flash's main with a single Zergling and see the Starport. Had Effort not been able to do that, Flash could have at least put up a fight (he's pulled crazier comebacks), since Effort could guess wrong about what Flash's plans were going to be.
It was one of the worst plays I've ever seen, and the fact that it came from Flash was simply shocking.
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Honestly, I really think Flash really try to give up his title, or at least game 3. I have read all the wise and persuasive post about Flash and how hard it is to be a Terran and get to final. Its still doesnt make sense what Flash do in this match. For a professional player in any game that require high analytical skill, being able to read opponent mind is very very important, and actually Flash did it very well especially with finding the lurker trap twice in first 2 games. It is so normally for a good mind reader to recognize that his opponent is so nervous, or even scare of him (maybe im a noob but i really dont understand why in game 2 after pwn mm in his expo effort seem so confused and could not do much with his muta). At that state of mind, it is expected that his opponent will continue to make mistakes again and giving him a title with a not-so-hard 3-0, therefore a kind of safe play is very acceptable in term of his current advantage and the "mindset" game. A world class player can see through that quite easily, however, Flash seem to turn from a professional player into a pro amatuer (i mean in term of the psychology not his micro or macro control skill). He put himself in Effort's place and become very impatient then he move a bunch of fragile marines out without medic to the battlefield where he knows Efforts zerglings is waiting for him. You may argue that its just a single mistake of controlling, for me its more like a sign of a "confusion", seriously, I think that he dont want to win, at least that game.
Next to game 4, now Flash is really in the Effort position in the 2nd game, he playing risky (like Efforts 3 hatch pool), make a lot of mistakes (put barrack in the way of overlord scouting, not carefully block the ramp) and giving Effort another game. Flash game 5 is so like Flash after the "incident" in last year MSL, very passive and blunt performance.
Maybe its because he is just a 17 boy, or it is the miracle of sport (hope not another match-fixing). It is still kind of disappointed to me to see after all the excitement and expectation i have for a ZvT final. Anw still have high hope for epicness in MSL final, go JD.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On May 23 2010 12:08 Skillz_Man wrote:
What happened in when GGPlay won the finals, is it something I should see or why is it being talked about?
Daum OSL 2007, best OSL final of all time imo
Iris vs GGPlay
Iris goes up 2-0, and GGPlay comes back and wins 3-2 with an epic game 5. It was the first time a 0-2 -> 3-2 comeback ever happened in a final.
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lol I LB'd effort
YESSSS.....
for a while Effort was shaky, losing to terrans everywhere, but I figured if there was any time for him to come out of it, it would be at the osl finals
gonna watch vods now =)
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Woo, I'm a proud Effort fan tonight. Totally didn't think he had much of a chance, realistically, but man that guy is resilient. His smirk before the beginning of set 5 was priceless.
Will Flash play tonight? Is it normal to play right after a Bo5?
I hope Flash gets some rest from what has surely been a chaotic and stressful week. With his big MSL finals game coming up, I think it'd be stupid to keep pounding him out there in Proleague. But I guess time will tell what they do with him.
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On May 23 2010 12:49 3 Lions wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 12:08 Skillz_Man wrote:
What happened in when GGPlay won the finals, is it something I should see or why is it being talked about? Daum OSL 2007, best OSL final of all time imo Iris vs GGPlay Iris goes up 2-0, and GGPlay comes back and wins 3-2 with an epic game 5. It was the first time a 0-2 -> 3-2 comeback ever happened in a final.
really showed GGPlay's great late game defiler usage and management
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On May 23 2010 12:36 double1185 wrote:
Honestly, I really think Flash really try to give up his title, or at least game 3. I have read all the wise and persuasive post about Flash and how hard it is to be a Terran and get to final. Its still doesnt make sense what Flash do in this match. For a professional player in any game that require high analytical skill, being able to read opponent mind is very very important, and actually Flash did it very well especially with finding the lurker trap twice in first 2 games. It is so normally for a good mind reader to recognize that his opponent is so nervous, or even scare of him (maybe im a noob but i really dont understand why in game 2 after pwn mm in his expo effort seem so confused and could not do much with his muta). At that state of mind, it is expected that his opponent will continue to make mistakes again and giving him a title with a not-so-hard 3-0, therefore a kind of safe play is very acceptable in term of his current advantage and the "mindset" game. A world class player can see through that quite easily, however, Flash seem to turn from a professional player into a pro amatuer (i mean in term of the psychology not his micro or macro control skill). He put himself in Effort's place and become very impatient then he move a bunch of fragile marines out without medic to the battlefield where he knows Efforts zerglings is waiting for him. You may argue that its just a single mistake of controlling, for me its more like a sign of a "confusion", seriously, I think that he dont want to win, at least that game.
Next to game 4, now Flash is really in the Effort position in the 2nd game, he playing risky (like Efforts 3 hatch pool), make a lot of mistakes (put barrack in the way of overlord scouting, not carefully block the ramp) and giving Effort another game. Flash game 5 is so like Flash after the "incident" in last year MSL, very passive and blunt performance.
Maybe its because he is just a 17 boy, or it is the miracle of sport (hope not another match-fixing). It is still kind of disappointed to me to see after all the excitement and expectation i have for a ZvT final. Anw still have high hope for epicness in MSL final, go JD.
He didn't know about the lings in game 3, because he assumed effort would take the natural instead of doing 2 hatch all in. After he killed about 6 lings that tried to harass he thought the centre was clear.
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On May 23 2010 12:30 darktreb wrote:
Obviously I'm biased but I think Flash fans have overall been pretty gracious/rational given the circumstances. We've definitely seen worse fan outbursts (like Stork vs Shine). Of course there's always a few dumb posts but most people seem to agree that:
1. No matter how it happens, if you are down 2-0 to the best player in the game and come back to win 3-2, it's an amazing feat.
2. Flash did not play up to his usual standard
Anyway, I still think people aren't talking enough about Flash's failed ramp block in game 4. While he was already behind with a failed B(plus canceled B)S, there was NO EXCUSE for failing to block that ramp with SCVs given that he had 5 Marines and knew the exact Zergling timing (his SCV came back to his base with the Zerglings so it wasn't even like his timing could have been off - he could literally see the lings the whole time). By losing 4 Marines instead of blocking his ramp off and just holding steady, that made it possible for Effort to scout Flash's main with a single Zergling and see the Starport. Had Effort not been able to do that, Flash could have at least put up a fight (he's pulled crazier comebacks), since Effort could guess wrong about what Flash's plans were going to be.
It was one of the worst plays I've ever seen, and the fact that it came from Flash was simply shocking.
Lol i knew someone would say something like "flash wasn't playing up to his standard.". He knew exactly what he was doing, there is No excuse for his play...esecially with that dropship play vs hydras, come on brosky
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On May 23 2010 13:09 HUGGY wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 12:30 darktreb wrote:
Obviously I'm biased but I think Flash fans have overall been pretty gracious/rational given the circumstances. We've definitely seen worse fan outbursts (like Stork vs Shine). Of course there's always a few dumb posts but most people seem to agree that:
1. No matter how it happens, if you are down 2-0 to the best player in the game and come back to win 3-2, it's an amazing feat.
2. Flash did not play up to his usual standard
Anyway, I still think people aren't talking enough about Flash's failed ramp block in game 4. While he was already behind with a failed B(plus canceled B)S, there was NO EXCUSE for failing to block that ramp with SCVs given that he had 5 Marines and knew the exact Zergling timing (his SCV came back to his base with the Zerglings so it wasn't even like his timing could have been off - he could literally see the lings the whole time). By losing 4 Marines instead of blocking his ramp off and just holding steady, that made it possible for Effort to scout Flash's main with a single Zergling and see the Starport. Had Effort not been able to do that, Flash could have at least put up a fight (he's pulled crazier comebacks), since Effort could guess wrong about what Flash's plans were going to be.
It was one of the worst plays I've ever seen, and the fact that it came from Flash was simply shocking. Lol i knew someone would say something like "flash wasn't playing up to his standard.". He knew exactly what he was doing, there is No excuse for his play...esecially with that dropship play vs hydras, come on brosky
He's the best right now, it's right to say he didnt play up to his potential. Effort did earn his victories though. If Flash really did play at his peak and still lost people wouldnt call him the best. It was an upset for a reason.
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<---- Proud effort fan :D
edit:
![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/33e0fgk.jpg)
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Well finally watched the games. For what it's worth, here's my take:
Game 1 -- Effort was too late with a switch back to mutas and chose a horrible time to engage Flash when tanks were on the high ground. Easy win for Flash in the end.
Game 2 -- Flash came through at critical points in the game here. I felt if Effort had a second nydus to better defend his 9 expo, and hold the fourth gas, he would have come through. Flash's multi-tasking was too clutch and got him through.
Game 3 -- Flash made a horrible mistake with that first marine group that got manhandled by the lings. Easy cleanup job for the mutas after that.
Game 4 -- Scout ling! Effort completely outplayed Flash once he got that ling through. Game was punctuated by the beautiful ling/lurker surround towards the end.
Game 5 -- These things happen. Effort knew he had a build order advantage and just went for it. I really don't know why Flash would go for such a risky build with so much on the line. Tough way to lose an OSL final, but kudos to Effort; he was the better player over the last 3 games and well worth the win IMO.
Effort clearly had a strategy to try rattle Flash early with aggressive builds to try interrupt Flash's sick timing attacks. Flash made some mistakes, but Effort was good enough to take advantage and win. Don't know why the Flash fans are crying so much. The games might not have been "classics", but the better player won on the day.
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On May 23 2010 13:12 TheElitists wrote:<---- Proud effort fan :D edit:
the only post better than my first post in this thread.
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On May 23 2010 12:10 Archer_ wrote:
You guys are all ridiculous. All this Flash lost not Effort won stuff is just plain stupid. Effort won, just deal with it. Flash made bad choices and that's what made him lose. THAT'S STARCRAFT. PEOPLE LOSE GAMES THAT WAY. You guys don't think Effort made bad choices to lose game 1 and 2? There's also those people who keep talking about how they're not flash fans and it's just because both people didn't play to the fullest of their abilities (obviously talking about Flash), but I bet if Flash won 3-0 you guys wouldn't be saying anything. If you truly believed that, all the games should've been played out like the SPL game between them two recently. But you guys are obviously just dissappointed about the last 3 games. Anyways, GOOOO EFFORTT!
This really isn't that difficult. There's more reasons someone could be disappointed with this series than being a Flash fanboy. The only way you would not see that is if you're an Effort fanboy.
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On May 23 2010 09:56 EpiK wrote:
lol...
this will shut the b-word users up for a while
Nah, now we can just straight up crown JD 
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i wonder how many people changed their team icons (back) to CJ after this lol
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LOL at the delusional Flash fans.
Game1-2: omg flash so pro, maphax in brain lol! *pulls out random statistics that nobody cares about*
Game3-5: obviously flash is not himself. effort didnt win, flash just lost. despite losing, flash is still better!!!
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On May 23 2010 12:25 Serpico wrote:
Will Flash play tonight? Is it normal to play right after a Bo5?
Nope, since he is mentally destroyed...
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On May 23 2010 15:26 vnlegend wrote:
LOL at the delusional Flash fans.
Game1-2: omg flash so pro, maphax in brain lol! *pulls out random statistics that nobody cares about*
Game3-5: obviously flash is not himself. effort didnt win, flash just lost. despite losing, flash is still better!!!
lol
On May 23 2010 14:12 Fr33t wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 09:56 EpiK wrote:
lol...
this will shut the b-word users up for a while Nah, now we can just straight up crown JD
we'll see next week  This final just hyped up JD vs Flash even more for me
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The majority of Flash fans have been pretty reasonable about the defeat. It's mainly the haters not actually reading most of the thread and being like "I knew Flash fans would whine".
If you honestly think Flash played up to his standard in the last 3 games, you're both biased and wrong. This is NOT taking anything away from Effort. It's Flash's fault he didn't play up to his standard. Nobody's making excuses - Flash blew a 2-0 lead so there are no excuses. It's simply an observation that he didn't play like he has been capable of in the last 3 games, unless you're saying that a guy playing like that could go 80% for half a year and make 4 finals.
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Kinda strange how all comebacks from 0-2 to 3-2 in the finals come from Zerg against Terran.
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EPT
