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On May 23 2010 08:50 yes9111 wrote:
YESSSSSSS Effort win! Was shaking so hard in game 2 as Effort got outplayed. Have to say that Effort's wins looked a bit like Kwanro's wins =/
BUT GJ EFFORT!
if only kwanro played more like kwanro in the NATE MSL he coulda got back-to-back MSL silvers
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On May 23 2010 08:25 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 08:15 Fraidnot wrote:On May 23 2010 08:04 OneOther wrote:On May 23 2010 07:37 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 23 2010 06:22 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2010 06:13 tree.hugger wrote:On May 23 2010 06:03 Lightwip wrote:On May 23 2010 05:44 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2010 05:37 HnR)hT wrote:On May 23 2010 04:40 Serpico wrote:
The better player choking his guts out? Shame. While it's true that Effort choked pretty badly the first two games, he was able to come back in the next three. every dog has his day, flash will just have to make due with beating the dong. the first thing that came to mind in both of the 2 games that Flash won was "Jaedong could've pulled off a win here." If he doesn't do better than he did here, he has no chance. Especially since he's playing the Bo5 master. EffOrt got outplayed in the second game, but Jaedong would not have beaten Flash from the zerg position in game one. Not with his hydra tech deflected and his doom drop scouted. On May 23 2010 06:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Flash played so bad after the first 2 games. It was sad to watch. On May 23 2010 05:55 MuffinDude wrote:
Really? Flash? You played like shit game 3, 4, and 5. WTF flash. Really? You don't deserve the golden mouse if you choose to suck all the sudden after winning 2 games. Flash is a progamer, Jaedong is a progamer, and so is EffOrt. I was somewhat hoping that EffOrt winning would make all this "EffOrt is bad, EffOrt is not worthy of an OSL finals" nonsense go away, but apparently haters gotta hate, and will continue making ridiculous excuses, just as they did with the last MSL finals, and pretty much every Flash loss afterwords.  Flash did not lose that final,  EffOrt won it. There's a difference. I just dont think flash played at his peak for 5 games. He did for 2....then effort played great and flash's play diminished. I feel Flash has done well enough to prove he's the best usually, but he just didnt come to play those last 3 games. I give effort all the credit in the world for bringing his A game, but what the hell Flash. The problem is, Flash does these extremely greedy builds and takes risks to have a larger army later. When a player punishes him (like Effort did in games 3 and 5) people cry omg cheese! But when they don't, Flash comes out quite ahead in macro, and that's suddenly "Flash's standard" or "Flash playing at his peak." Too many Flash fans consider any loss to be "Flash playing badly" when his early risks don't pay off. It's NOT standard for Flash to 14cc and get to midgame ahead. That's why its flawed to say "oh Flash outplayed Effort in the more standard/real game 2" and not game 3 4 or 5. Just because Flash's risky stuff didn't work doesn't mean he suddenly is playing bad. Game 5, yes - Flash took a risk. Game 3, no way. 1 rax CC is the stamp of TvZ opening. Flash made a seemingly minor mistake of moving out a few seconds too early without medics but it ended up losing the game (and eventually the series) for him. Flash doesn't need to take huge risks. He just needs to play standard i.e. one rax expo and let his incredible abilities win him games. Game 3 was all about flash falling for a fake 3 hatch build and effort sacrificing 5 lings to get flash to push out. Flash would have been in trouble even if his medics weren't so far out. What? Flash didn't fall for a 3 hatch fake lol. You kidding me? He scouted the Lair timing and the expo at 9, why in the world would he think Effort is going 3 hatch? Flash wanted to hit nine o'clock with the first group of marines/meds (with firebats following) right before mutas pop. If you look at the timing, his marines would have been at nine just on time before mutas morph. He simply made a mistake - a huge one - of not waiting for medics and moving out in a formation.
I watched the game again from what I could tell flash didn't see the lair, then again I don't know korean and they didn't show if the scv went up the ramp a second time.
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honestly I find this to be the worst OSL in a while (well, worst than last season, but I think bacchus OSL 2009 was one of the worst of all time lol). the Ro16 wasn't too great and was lacking a lot of good players. Basically the only thing keeping me interested was Kal's run but that ended when effort decided to suddenly not suck. The finals were OK but not that great, especially for a Bo5 going to game 5 lol. It was just so lame with JD not getting into the Ro16 and then a lot of the usually good players started to suck a whole lot (stork, fantasy, calm, bisu) and the Ro16 onward just felt really lackluster outside of a few players.
Unless the MSL finals get ruined again I think that MSL just had a much much better season this time around.
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Two build order wins. Not a very convincing finish. Flash played better the whole series.
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Wow, so happy Effort won.
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On May 23 2010 09:20 Ideas wrote:
honestly I find this to be the worst OSL in a while (well, worst than last season, but I think bacchus OSL 2009 was one of the worst of all time lol). the Ro16 wasn't too great and was lacking a lot of good players. Basically the only thing keeping me interested was Kal's run but that ended when effort decided to suddenly not suck. The finals were OK but not that great, especially for a Bo5 going to game 5 lol. It was just so lame with JD not getting into the Ro16 and then a lot of the usually good players started to suck a whole lot (stork, fantasy, calm, bisu) and the Ro16 onward just felt really lackluster outside of a few players.
Unless the MSL finals get ruined again I think that MSL just had a much much better season this time around.
Honestly, nothing can compare to the fanboy rage of EVER 09. At least this time the fanboys are acknowledging that their favorite player played poorly instead of raging and saying "EFFORTS PLAY SO GAY OMG"
The backlash to Shine winning a Bo3 or Flash bunker rushing Jaedong hasn't been matched to this day.
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Huge props to effort for keeping his cool in an otherwise very dismal situation. You can tell he was very shaken by what happened with the rematch in game one. He made some extremely careless control mistakes in the first two games that I can assure you, were directly related to his nerves.
Let's face is, being down 2 games to flash in a bo5 is a very grim situation to be in. I think we can all agree that most players confidence would be completely shattered in such a position. I give effort an insurmountable amount of credit for not folding under pressure. My hands would be shaking too hard to play in a situation like that. This shows that effort has the mental perseverance to shine through such a predicament.
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On May 23 2010 09:24 malathion wrote:
Two build order wins. Not a very convincing finish. Flash played better the whole series.
Flash chose 2 stupid risky builds and lost because of it. Effort played smarter and better over the 5 games, that's why he won.
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Flash has been one of my favorite players for a while, but I am glad to see Effort win.
I'm tired of hearing all the flash slurpers on here going on and on about how flash is "the best player ever"
Flash is not even the most dominant player in his own era, let alone of all time.
Can't wait to watch the VODs of this series, and even more excited for the JD vs Flash rematch.
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LOL the fanboy backlash is fucking gold, It's the main reason i keep revisiting this thread, Flash played greedy in the last 2 games and paid big time for it, in game 3 he just made a very big mistake in moving out like that. Flash is known to test the limits of the early game advantage, effort simply went 2hatch mutas with about 10-15 lings beforehand and crushed flash's greedy builds. The fact that the games didnt all last 20-40 minutes is all on flash and has nothing to do with effort.
Til now most players have tried to macro up with flash to meet his devastating force mid-late-game, effort simply took a detour shortcut knowing flash would turn to his comfortable 14cc or greedy builds and made some lings, and it worked. these short games are flash's fault. And if you really understand the build order mind games of SC you know these wins are just as important and meaningful as long drawn-out battles with lots of spells and units.
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On May 23 2010 09:04 Fraidnot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 08:25 OneOther wrote:On May 23 2010 08:15 Fraidnot wrote:On May 23 2010 08:04 OneOther wrote:On May 23 2010 07:37 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 23 2010 06:22 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2010 06:13 tree.hugger wrote:On May 23 2010 06:03 Lightwip wrote:On May 23 2010 05:44 Serpico wrote:On May 23 2010 05:37 HnR)hT wrote:
[quote]
While it's true that Effort choked pretty badly the first two games, he was able to come back in the next three. every dog has his day, flash will just have to make due with beating the dong. the first thing that came to mind in both of the 2 games that Flash won was "Jaedong could've pulled off a win here." If he doesn't do better than he did here, he has no chance. Especially since he's playing the Bo5 master. EffOrt got outplayed in the second game, but Jaedong would not have beaten Flash from the zerg position in game one. Not with his hydra tech deflected and his doom drop scouted. On May 23 2010 06:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Flash played so bad after the first 2 games. It was sad to watch. On May 23 2010 05:55 MuffinDude wrote:
Really? Flash? You played like shit game 3, 4, and 5. WTF flash. Really? You don't deserve the golden mouse if you choose to suck all the sudden after winning 2 games. Flash is a progamer, Jaedong is a progamer, and so is EffOrt. I was somewhat hoping that EffOrt winning would make all this "EffOrt is bad, EffOrt is not worthy of an OSL finals" nonsense go away, but apparently haters gotta hate, and will continue making ridiculous excuses, just as they did with the last MSL finals, and pretty much every Flash loss afterwords. Flash did not lose that final, EffOrt won it. There's a difference. I just dont think flash played at his peak for 5 games. He did for 2....then effort played great and flash's play diminished. I feel Flash has done well enough to prove he's the best usually, but he just didnt come to play those last 3 games. I give effort all the credit in the world for bringing his A game, but what the hell Flash. The problem is, Flash does these extremely greedy builds and takes risks to have a larger army later. When a player punishes him (like Effort did in games 3 and 5) people cry omg cheese! But when they don't, Flash comes out quite ahead in macro, and that's suddenly "Flash's standard" or "Flash playing at his peak." Too many Flash fans consider any loss to be "Flash playing badly" when his early risks don't pay off. It's NOT standard for Flash to 14cc and get to midgame ahead. That's why its flawed to say "oh Flash outplayed Effort in the more standard/real game 2" and not game 3 4 or 5. Just because Flash's risky stuff didn't work doesn't mean he suddenly is playing bad. Game 5, yes - Flash took a risk. Game 3, no way. 1 rax CC is the stamp of TvZ opening. Flash made a seemingly minor mistake of moving out a few seconds too early without medics but it ended up losing the game (and eventually the series) for him. Flash doesn't need to take huge risks. He just needs to play standard i.e. one rax expo and let his incredible abilities win him games. Game 3 was all about flash falling for a fake 3 hatch build and effort sacrificing 5 lings to get flash to push out. Flash would have been in trouble even if his medics weren't so far out. What? Flash didn't fall for a 3 hatch fake lol. You kidding me? He scouted the Lair timing and the expo at 9, why in the world would he think Effort is going 3 hatch? Flash wanted to hit nine o'clock with the first group of marines/meds (with firebats following) right before mutas pop. If you look at the timing, his marines would have been at nine just on time before mutas morph. He simply made a mistake - a huge one - of not waiting for medics and moving out in a formation. I watched the game again from what I could tell flash didn't see the lair, then again I don't know korean and they didn't show if the scv went up the ramp a second time.
It doesn't matter if flash saw the lair, the important thing is that he assumed effort would take the natural (which is understandable)
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On May 23 2010 09:38 bodysnatcher21 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 09:24 malathion wrote:
Two build order wins. Not a very convincing finish. Flash played better the whole series. Flash chose 2 stupid risky builds and lost because of it. Effort played smarter and better over the 5 games, that's why he won.
That might be but I still don't like it or think it's a convincing win. Effort didn't win, Flash lost.
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On May 23 2010 09:45 DJONES wrote:
Flash has been one of my favorite players for a while, but I am glad to see Effort win.
I'm tired of hearing all the flash slurpers on here going on and on about how flash is "the best player ever"
Flash is not even the most dominant player in his own era, let alone of all time.
Can't wait to watch the VODs of this series, and even more excited for the JD vs Flash rematch.
This is Starcraft, not tennis or something. There is a limit to how dominant a single player can be. 80% winrate is as dominant as it gets.
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On May 23 2010 09:47 malathion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 09:38 bodysnatcher21 wrote:On May 23 2010 09:24 malathion wrote:
Two build order wins. Not a very convincing finish. Flash played better the whole series. Flash chose 2 stupid risky builds and lost because of it. Effort played smarter and better over the 5 games, that's why he won. That might be but I still don't like it or think it's a convincing win. Effort didn't win, Flash lost.
if flash lost and effort didn't win means flash tries his risky greedy early game builds and effort simply makes units and plays aggressive to show him he can't do that every game. I completely agree.
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On May 23 2010 09:47 malathion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 09:38 bodysnatcher21 wrote:On May 23 2010 09:24 malathion wrote:
Two build order wins. Not a very convincing finish. Flash played better the whole series. Flash chose 2 stupid risky builds and lost because of it. Effort played smarter and better over the 5 games, that's why he won. That might be but I still don't like it or think it's a convincing win. Effort didn't win, Flash lost.
lol what?
so if flash lost, there is no winner?
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Wow, amazing comeback down 0-2 to a player playing out of his mind.
Effort, you deserve that OSL for that ridiculous comeback.
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If you complain about Effort's aggression you should complain about Flash's aggression in game 4 vs Movie where he bunker rushed a 14 nex. If your opponent goes greedy you can be aggressive and win.
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On May 23 2010 09:53 below66 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 09:47 malathion wrote:On May 23 2010 09:38 bodysnatcher21 wrote:On May 23 2010 09:24 malathion wrote:
Two build order wins. Not a very convincing finish. Flash played better the whole series. Flash chose 2 stupid risky builds and lost because of it. Effort played smarter and better over the 5 games, that's why he won. That might be but I still don't like it or think it's a convincing win. Effort didn't win, Flash lost. if flash lost and effort didn't win means flash tries his risky greedy early game builds and effort simply makes units and plays aggressive to show him he can't do that every game. I completely agree.
I'm not making excuses and I'm not a Flash fanboy. I just don't think this was convincing. I like to see OSLs where both players play in form. Disappointing.
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lol...
this will shut the b-word users up for a while
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On May 23 2010 09:55 Doraemon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 09:47 malathion wrote:On May 23 2010 09:38 bodysnatcher21 wrote:On May 23 2010 09:24 malathion wrote:
Two build order wins. Not a very convincing finish. Flash played better the whole series. Flash chose 2 stupid risky builds and lost because of it. Effort played smarter and better over the 5 games, that's why he won. That might be but I still don't like it or think it's a convincing win. Effort didn't win, Flash lost. lol what? so if flash lost, there is no winner?
Let me break this down for you. Effort won because Flash played well below his ability. Get it?
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EPT
