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[SPL] SK Telecom T1 vs eSTRO - Page 20

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Rkie
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States1278 Posts
May 11 2010 19:31 GMT
#381
wow fantasy actually did something smart unlike when he played calm last OSL...
o[twist]
Profile Joined May 2008
United States4903 Posts
May 11 2010 19:43 GMT
#382
lol awful defenses of fantasy on here i cannot believe how much slack this kid gets compared to every other progamer. moving out was incredibly dumb, the very next units he produced were medics
KizZBG
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
u gotta skate8152 Posts
May 11 2010 19:56 GMT
#383
On May 11 2010 23:30 Heimatloser wrote:
estro just runs out of power. rank 4 after round 1, rank 6, then rank 7 after winnersleague, and now only khan,hite and ace are worse

I'm gonna sound biased but I don't really think they're 'running out of power'. They've been doing quite well without Upmagic and Sangho. All of their losses except one were in ace match, so kinda unlucky too lol.
eSTRO for life | #2 Sea.Really fan! | #1 GosI[Flying] fan! | Clide - best SC2 terran!
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
May 11 2010 21:36 GMT
#384
On May 12 2010 04:56 KizZBG wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 23:30 Heimatloser wrote:
estro just runs out of power. rank 4 after round 1, rank 6, then rank 7 after winnersleague, and now only khan,hite and ace are worse

I'm gonna sound biased but I don't really think they're 'running out of power'. They've been doing quite well without Upmagic and Sangho. All of their losses except one were in ace match, so kinda unlucky too lol.


Really has been VERY dissapointing. If he just won the games he is supposed to, estro would be in a MUCH better spot.
JaedongMidasAction
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States70 Posts
May 11 2010 22:42 GMT
#385
NOOO ACTION x( damn it I'm so mad. Action is so good at tvz. Effing fantasy would have been crushed if it went to late game... sigh
Wings
Profile Joined January 2010
United States999 Posts
May 11 2010 22:59 GMT
#386
On May 11 2010 23:46 qrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 23:10 Wings wrote:
On May 11 2010 22:33 Tekin wrote:
[image loading]
[image loading]
and Finally the face palm
[image loading]

Well what other reaction can u expect from the guy who has the longest TvZ streak in history

Oov cannot even comprehend the stupidity that is Fantasy... it's like making a math genius tutor your local druggie dropout

Nice screencaps, Tekin.

@ everyone bashing on Fantasy's TvZ: granted, it hasn't been looking good lately, but seriously, a little respect for the guy who (temporarily) revolutionized that match-up a year ago, not to mention won PL for his team by beating (Z)Jaedong in a TvZ, and came darn close to winning a Bo5 to take the OSL against that same Jaedong, who, in case you hadn't heard, has been known to play a decent game himself, from time to time. I'm not a Fantasy fan at all; in fact, he is one of the few players that I tend to root against, but respect his skills, even if he is in a bit of a slump these days.

Besides, considering that he won the game, you theory-crafters will have a pretty hard time making the case that moving out was an objectively bad move.

No offense but I hope you're joking. Fantasy's TvZ is under 50%. UNDER 50%. This from a 'supposed' S-Class terran?? Yeah he was gaining attention last year for "revolutionizing" the matchup, but he has burned out so badly, you can't help but wonder if all that was actually his COACHES doing the work (OoV) and him just following orders... there's not many other explanations why he could suddenly be failing this badly. I've always been a Fantasy-doubter from the beginning (in TvZ, I know he's strong at TvP), I just suspect that he really sucks vs Zerg except his coaches' clever builds helps him occasionally win games.
The probability of Kim Carrier getting all those predictions wrong is similar to the probability Flash loses a TvT. Kim Carrier MUST BE a genius. His only big mistake... STORK.
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
May 11 2010 23:03 GMT
#387
On May 12 2010 04:31 Rkie wrote:
wow fantasy actually did something smart unlike when he played calm last OSL...

You kidding me? He almost lost the game by making the stupidest error of moving out. Why the hell would you move out in that situation? Jesus christ, not even a D- would have moved out against nonstop 4 pool lings.
God Bless
Jiffymix
Profile Joined April 2010
United States43 Posts
May 11 2010 23:08 GMT
#388
The games Fantasy played against Jaedong in the proleague finals on outsider and the 1st game of OSL semis prove that he had skill in straight up TvZ. He really needs to take a couple of steps back and work on his fundamentals instead of trying new builds every game. I guess he was working on that against Effort the other day.
SturmAddict
Profile Joined October 2009
Malaysia176 Posts
May 11 2010 23:17 GMT
#389
Its nice when people dont read.

He moved out because it was a 100% win-win situation for him

Remember,
1) he doesnt know if its a 4/5/6 pool
2) he doesnt have a scout in his opponents main

5/6 pool into macro has time and time again made a zerg come back into the game because the lack of punishment... i recall games from Savior vs FBH and July vs some guy i forgot lol.
Remember! fantasy has 2 raxes that means his income isnt pimp neither.

Either way, if the zerg 4/5 pool-->macro, he would die 100% of the time to that push since its from 2 rax and has quite a large numbers of marines in it

On the other hand, if the zerg made enough lings to destroy the push, all he have to do is wait for a round of firebats, bring his raxes in and wallaw. instant victory with 20 scv versus 4-5 drones.

No matter what happens, fantasy will win 100% of the time.
The only way fantasy can lose is
1) he loses his rax
AND
2) he doesnt block the choke
AND
he doesnt have enough money to build a proxy factory.

ALL are within his skill and micro level to execute.
ALL didnt happen. Therefore he won. and played again, he would have win 100% of the time.
Trezeguet
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States2656 Posts
May 11 2010 23:34 GMT
#390
I still don't understand why people think the Fantasy build is a strat that would work more than once or twice. Fantasy has sub 50% win rate vs zerg and Action 4 pools..... He could have even gone 2 hatch muta and it would have made more sense.
XiaoJoyce-
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
China2908 Posts
May 12 2010 01:17 GMT
#391
Why don't he wait for the medic, before pushing?
Pew! Pew! Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!
Disregard
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
China10252 Posts
May 12 2010 02:54 GMT
#392
T1 Zergs won again
"If I had to take a drug in order to be free, I'm screwed. Freedom exists in the mind, otherwise it doesn't exist."
checo
Profile Joined November 2008
Mexico1364 Posts
May 12 2010 04:23 GMT
#393
On May 12 2010 04:05 Ryo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2010 02:23 SturmAddict wrote:
Firstly we have two things you can do
1) Move out and attack zerg
2) Camp for medics, then push

Now lets go on the foreigners mindset, play as safe as possible. get a medic and push. There was two things the zerg could have done

1) it might have been a 5/6 pool and he droned up
2) he kept on building zerglings
Because fantasy didnt know which one is it, idd say 50:50 for either of this to happen.

So foreigners mindset = play safe. get medics and push
In situation one 50%, the zerg would scout it, place sunkens, and macro up. he will quite a few drones and wont really mind putting down sunkens. Terran is in an advantage, but he still have a 5-10% chance to lose. Sav*** vs Fbh was one of the games where rush--> macro could get someone into the game. and no. neither is C
So chances of terran losing is 0.5*0.75 =~3.75% chance to lose
#Recall, he didnt know if its a 4 or 5 or 6 pool cuz he has no scouting scv

In situation two, zerg massed lings. Unless he gets a large flank on an attack, the zerg will lose
Chances of terran losing = 0.00001%~

So chances of losing with foreigner play = 3.75% + 0.00001% ~ 3.75% chance to lose


Now lets take the korean players view
What if 1) happened. There is no bloody way the zerg could have had enough lings to defend against rines from 2 rax. Insta-win. The timing was s.t there was no way the zerg has his nat up AND enough drones to get sunkens in his nat. He might be forced to sunk his main, but that would do nothing against rines. Chances of losing = 0.00001%

what if 2) happened. Zerg mass lings with 3 drones mining. It will annihilate the rines (which is the only way not to die to it), but all Fantasy had to do was pull back to the choke with medics and firebats, block with SCV's, and win as stim+range is finishing which will be the doom to zerg.
There is no bloody way the terran can lose this. Unless he lost both his barracks =< but Fantasy clearly was waiting for a second firebat before lifting. Then his 20 scv economy kicks in versus 3 drones.
Chances of losing = 0.00001% plus fans are happy, commentators can scream on, and he can get revenge on his coach. ezpz

Chances of losing with the korean mind set = 0.00001+0.000001% ~ 0%

0% losing chance is better then a 1%+ losing chance



I suppose that makes Oov a foreigner who knows less than you. lol


When your a coach its ace match and your team hasn't been doing that great lately... Well i kinda think you would want your guys to play safe XD
El amor no mueve al mundo, ni hace brillar el sol, pero el amor hace latir este corazon....
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
May 12 2010 06:38 GMT
#394
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 12 2010 08:17 SturmAddict wrote:
Its nice when people dont read.

He moved out because it was a 100% win-win situation for him

Remember,
1) he doesnt know if its a 4/5/6 pool
2) he doesnt have a scout in his opponents main

5/6 pool into macro has time and time again made a zerg come back into the game because the lack of punishment... i recall games from Savior vs FBH and July vs some guy i forgot lol.
Remember! fantasy has 2 raxes that means his income isnt pimp neither.

Either way, if the zerg 4/5 pool-->macro, he would die 100% of the time to that push since its from 2 rax and has quite a large numbers of marines in it

On the other hand, if the zerg made enough lings to destroy the push, all he have to do is wait for a round of firebats, bring his raxes in and wallaw. instant victory with 20 scv versus 4-5 drones.

No matter what happens, fantasy will win 100% of the time.
The only way fantasy can lose is
1) he loses his rax
AND
2) he doesnt block the choke
AND
he doesnt have enough money to build a proxy factory.

ALL are within his skill and micro level to execute.
ALL didnt happen. Therefore he won. and played again, he would have win 100% of the time.



Oov was raging and facepalming and his understanding of TvZ is greater than yours so quit theorycrafting. Fantasy came very close to throwing this game from an unbeatable position.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
May 12 2010 07:40 GMT
#395
Just watched the series again, a lot of "wtf" moments in the games... lots of mistakes made but in all, made the games more entertaining.

I'm not sure why Action pulled a 4pool... maybe his coaching staff told him to (remember JD vs fantasy where JD pulled a 4pool, failed initially, but then broke fanta's bunker and won?). Still, Action has a good enough ZvT (and fantasy's TvZ isn't spectacular) to win it playing "standard" for estro.
[TLMS] REBOOT
Silentness
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2821 Posts
May 12 2010 09:00 GMT
#396
lol Action's standard ZvT is so much better... can't believe he 4 pooled. Then again he knew Fantasy would do some wacky ass shit so I guess he had to pull some cheese as well.
GL HF... YOLO..lololollol.
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
May 12 2010 11:23 GMT
#397
Action should have played standard, his tvz is actually good, oh well..

and Oov's reaction is priceless, I think he has the long matchup record if I'm not mistaken? 27-0 TvZ, Boxer only had something like 13-0 TvZ, and another record is Best's 15(?)-0 PvP (broken by Stork during the Batoo OSL Semi's)...
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
~ava
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada378 Posts
May 12 2010 12:48 GMT
#398
On May 12 2010 08:17 SturmAddict wrote:

On the other hand, if the zerg made enough lings to destroy the push, all he have to do is wait for a round of firebats, bring his raxes in and wallaw.


Do you mean voila by any chance? I lol'd hard.
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
May 12 2010 13:08 GMT
#399
On May 12 2010 20:23 SilverSkyLark wrote:
Action should have played standard, his tvz is actually good, oh well..

and Oov's reaction is priceless, I think he has the long matchup record if I'm not mistaken? 27-0 TvZ, Boxer only had something like 13-0 TvZ, and another record is Best's 15(?)-0 PvP (broken by Stork during the Batoo OSL Semi's)...

didnt flash have some 17-18 game win streaks in tvt and tvz simultaneously during the first part of this season?
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-12 14:47:08
May 12 2010 14:46 GMT
#400
On May 12 2010 22:08 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 12 2010 20:23 SilverSkyLark wrote:
Action should have played standard, his tvz is actually good, oh well..

and Oov's reaction is priceless, I think he has the long matchup record if I'm not mistaken? 27-0 TvZ, Boxer only had something like 13-0 TvZ, and another record is Best's 15(?)-0 PvP (broken by Stork during the Batoo OSL Semi's)...

didnt flash have some 17-18 game win streaks in tvt and tvz simultaneously during the first part of this season?

according to tlpd

His TvT streak is 12-0 and oh what do we have here, his TvZ streak is 12-0 too..
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
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