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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On December 28 2009 04:20 TheYango wrote: No, I'm saying the Shine haters won't admit that he isn't. Minor derail, but if you think Shine still sucks, then I guess that makes Bisu, Effort, Fantasy, and Stork all terrible then for losing to him? I never said Shine was terrible or sucks. ?? | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 28 2009 05:24 Avidkeystamper wrote: I never said Shine was terrible or sucks. ?? I meant "you" in the general sense, not "you" as in referring to you specifically. Sorry for being unclear. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On December 28 2009 02:12 TheYango wrote: Tell that to the Stork fanboys/Shine haters in the OSL Ro8 Week 2 thread. The reason people prefer Stork over Bisu is simple bandwagoning with the player who's winning games. It's why there's less nerdrage in recent Bisu losses than in Stork's--all the bandwagon fans have jumped ship. People nerdraged over Stork losing because a possible Flash v Shine final is laughable. Shine just isn't that great. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17733 Posts
just realized he has a winning record vs bisu, jaedong and flash | ||
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saltywet
Hong Kong1316 Posts
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On December 28 2009 08:43 saltywet wrote: fantasy vs calm as recommended game? gtfo skt1 fanboy, that game was so bad, there was one point fantasy walked 2 control groups m&m and 3 tanks through 3 lurkers gtfo STX fanboy The players sucked that game but it was hella entertaining to watch. Bad Play=/= not entertaining and worthwhile game. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
On December 28 2009 08:43 saltywet wrote: fantasy vs calm as recommended game? gtfo skt1 fanboy, that game was so bad, there was one point fantasy walked 2 control groups m&m and 3 tanks through 3 lurkers It was hilariously bad. Thats why its recommended. There were quite a few games where the hilariously bad games are just so hilariously bad that it just gets recommended. | ||
MrHoon
10183 Posts
But has anyone seen bisu's face after the loss? Whenever Bisu loses in a disappointing fashion he normally just gets his smiley face and goes "uhuhuh well everyone makes mistakes I guess I'll own him next time :D" I have never seen bisu so pissed off after a loss and guys, stop shitting on bisu  the guy had enough shit taken on him | ||
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PangO
Chile1870 Posts
Hope Bisu can learn from this. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On December 28 2009 06:03 Ilikestarcraft wrote: just realized he has a winning record vs bisu, jaedong and flash There's a reason everyone says that if "Forgg ever gets back in shape KT will be unstoppable." He was honest to goodness the best player in the world at one point after consistently dismantling every other top player like playthings. Then poof slump for the entirety of 09. :> | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
On December 28 2009 11:40 TwoToneTerran wrote: There's a reason everyone says that if "Forgg ever gets back in shape KT will be unstoppable." He was honest to goodness the best player in the world at one point after consistently dismantling every other top player like playthings. Then poof slump for the entirety of 09. :> You can say that about many teams. If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On December 28 2009 12:32 MuffinDude wrote: You can say that about many teams. If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow. QFT! Btw even if they do have a good Zerg lineup vs Khan, FBH will take care of that. lol | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On December 28 2009 12:32 MuffinDude wrote: You can say that about many teams. If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow. Um...no. You can't say that about Oov/Boxer/Savior. I'm pretty sure they said, atleast while all were playing, that they're better now than they were in their prime, just that competition has gotten fiercer. Forgg was better than he is now. There's no getting around it. He beat Kal, Jaedong, and Flash in absolutely dominating fashion on his title run. He played some absolutely amazing and impressive starcraft, even by today's standards. This was all directly after Flash won his OSL, Jaedong won his MSL, and Kal was runner up in the MSL -- all were in peak condition before Forgg shut them down. The same DOES go for Jangbi and Firebathero, though. But Firebathero was never a title winner who stomped the best players in amazing fashion. Same kind of goes for Best/Fantasy/Jangbi, too, though they, at their best, are certainly much more impressive than now. ForGG is the only person on this list that stomped the best players in the modern age (With exception to Stork, who is definitely Forgg's canemaster). Savior/Oov/Boxer/Nada/Best/Jangbi/Firebathero never simultaneously took down the likes of Flash/Jaedong/Kal/Bisu, and did so convincingly. They may have good records against a couple of them, but it's hard to compare to Forgg's prime. Guy just lost it. =\ Ask Oz fans, Forgg was a wrecking machine. | ||
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
On December 28 2009 12:32 MuffinDude wrote: You can say that about many teams. If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow. Yea but no one doubts any of the players that you listed, they were well-known. ForGG, on the other hand, isn't given that much credit by a lot of new players. They just know him for the mess that he is now. | ||
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Pokeball
94 Posts
On December 28 2009 12:32 MuffinDude wrote: You can say that about many teams. If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow. The thing with Boxer, Savior (and perhaps Oov but he never really plays anymore so who knows) is that they're probably playing the best Starcraft of their lives right now. Everyone else is just better than them, they can't really keep up. Boxer still has his micro and cheesy builds, Savior can still use hive tech very well, and Oov still has his game sense and understanding of Starcraft and you can see it in their play. Jangbi, FBH, and Forgg are similar and that is that their slumps are pretty unexplainable and their skill level literally deteriorated literally overnight. Jangbi, who has the highest PvT ELO peak, has slumped so far that he even has trouble against terran players, FBH, who used to be a monster at TvT and TvZ, can't even win against CuteAngel, and Forgg's decision making and timing is now completely shot. Forgg is a curious case because the minute he won the Arena MSL, he basically turned into a retard. | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
On December 28 2009 12:50 TwoToneTerran wrote: Um...no. You can't say that about Oov/Boxer/Savior. I'm pretty sure they said, atleast while all were playing, that they're better now than they were in their prime, just that competition has gotten fiercer. Forgg was better than he is now. There's no getting around it. He beat Kal, Jaedong, and Flash in absolutely dominating fashion on his title run. He played some absolutely amazing and impressive starcraft, even by today's standards. This was all directly after Flash won his OSL, Jaedong won his MSL, and Kal was runner up in the MSL -- all were in peak condition before Forgg shut them down. The same DOES go for Jangbi and Firebathero, though. But Firebathero was never a title winner who stomped the best players in amazing fashion. Same kind of goes for Best/Fantasy/Jangbi, too, though they, at their best, are certainly much more impressive than now. ForGG is the only person on this list that stomped the best players in the modern age (With exception to Stork, who is definitely Forgg's canemaster). Savior/Oov/Boxer/Nada/Best/Jangbi/Firebathero never simultaneously took down the likes of Flash/Jaedong/Kal/Bisu, and did so convincingly. They may have good records against a couple of them, but it's hard to compare to Forgg's prime. Guy just lost it. =\ Ask Oz fans, Forgg was a wrecking machine. Are you kidding? Savior is playing much worse than he used too. He isn't focusing on large army micro anymore. People say savior has gotten worse because competition has gotten fierce, but I also believe that Savior is just playing worse and his fpvods show is. That is why I believe Savior can make a comeback as long as he starts playing like he used to. The same might not be applicable to boxer and oov, but they definitely are playing worse than before. FBH never won a title partly because of his tvp, but his tvt and tvz was good enough to get a title. And I would dare to say Jangbi prime>forgg prime anyday. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
Anyhow, Jangbi vs ForGG in their primes, depends on who they're up against. Versus each other, Jangbi's definitely the favorite because Jangbi at his best is just a more efficient, less creative Stork. But up against Bisu or Jaedong? ForGG has the better shot over Jangbi by a LOT. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On December 28 2009 12:55 MuffinDude wrote: Are you kidding? Savior is playing much worse than he used too. He isn't focusing on large army micro anymore. People say savior has gotten worse because competition has gotten fierce, but I also believe that Savior is just playing worse and his fpvods show is. That is why I believe Savior can make a comeback as long as he starts playing like he used to. The same might not be applicable to boxer and oov, but they definitely are playing worse than before. FBH never won a title partly because of his tvp, but his tvt and tvz was good enough to get a title. And I would dare to say Jangbi prime>forgg prime anyday. sAviOr is getting much worse results than ever, but he's definitely improved as a player. Even he admits it. Watch the Shinhan 3 finals, which was sloppy zvt versus sloppy tvz (by modern standards) and then watch his games against Leta and UpMaGiC in early 2009. He's improved a lot, everyone else really is just that much better. | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
On December 28 2009 13:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: Savior maybe could be a little better, but remember why Savior became less relevant -- he was completely destroyed by Bisu. The modern era is why Savior isn't amazing. ForGG's time was during the modern era. Anyhow, Jangbi vs ForGG in their primes, depends on who they're up against. Versus each other, Jangbi's definitely the favorite because Jangbi at his best is just a more efficient, less creative Stork. But up against Bisu or Jaedong? ForGG has the better shot over Jangbi by a LOT. Forgg's tvp was as good as jangbi's pvz in their primes. He might be able to take on bisu, but bisu's pvt isn't too special. Stork and jangbi definitely have better pvt than forgg. On December 28 2009 13:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote: sAviOr is getting much worse results than ever, but he's definitely improved as a player. Even he admits it. Watch the Shinhan 3 finals, which was sloppy zvt versus sloppy tvz (by modern standards) and then watch his games against Leta and UpMaGiC in early 2009. He's improved a lot, everyone else really is just that much better. His recent games are getting much better, but his mid 2009 games were just terrible. I honestly think that savior is worse than during his prime. | ||
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