I'm not betting against Jaedong in a ZvZ, or unfortanutely, Flash in a TvT. The other two matches are toss-ups but I have faith in BackHo to at least bring it to ace where Oz can take it 3-2.
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I am praying for either Luxury to fail or BackHo to turn on god mode (but not both). Jaedong vs Flash Ace would be soooooooo sick. I'll say 3-2 Oz cause Outsider is a Zerg favored map.
I read that hwasung house and I went like --> :/ I don't know why but I really thought we were gonna take down Skt1... holy fuck, hyuk... really? I hope something good happens tonight (HiyA or Backho playing well would be nice).
Moderator Message: Streams will be posted as soon as they are available. If you whine / complain / keep asking for streams, you will be quickly issued a 2-day temp ban.
I won't be casting OGN tonight, please remove the Storkcast link.
Moderator Message: Streams will be posted as soon as they are available. If you whine / complain / keep asking for streams, you will be quickly issued a 2-day temp ban.
Hwaseung house is decent, but could you use new photos? The suspense buildup for a lol moment is not there because I expect the Jaedong's disapproval pic at the last slot
Can you guys imagine the absolute devastation in FPL if 815 wins? 400 people who have him on their antis get ninja -4 and the 800 people with JD on their main team go home with nothing.
On October 28 2009 11:17 AzureEye wrote: Hwaseung house is decent, but could you use new photos? The suspense buildup for a lol moment is not there because I expect the Jaedong's disapproval pic at the last slot
But seriously, its kinda the running theme that every non-special edition HH ends with that same Jaedong shot. Maybe if I get a really good idea I would change it but I would rather the text itself can provide the gag without having to continually search for expressive Jaedong pics.
On October 28 2009 11:17 AzureEye wrote: Hwaseung house is decent, but could you use new photos? The suspense buildup for a lol moment is not there because I expect the Jaedong's disapproval pic at the last slot
But seriously, its kinda the running theme that every non-special edition HH ends with that same Jaedong shot. Maybe if I get a really good idea I would change it but I would rather the text itself can provide the gag without having to continually search for expressive Jaedong pics.
I like the current format, for what it's worth. Even knowing the punchline, it's funny.
haha another great HH Damn this might be a perfect tossup between Oz and KT. Flash and JD will be winning. looks like luxury may win but backho will decide it i guess.
On October 28 2009 12:09 JohnBall wrote: Great Hwaseung House, Atrioc. But in your OP banner where Oz results are shown isn't it missing the Oz vs Stars result? (3-2 for Oz).
Hoping for good matches with a Jaedong vs Flash Ace. Flash himself said in a interview that he would like to face Jaedong .
You are 100% correct, thanks and it will be fixed for the next LR thread!
On October 28 2009 11:17 AzureEye wrote: Hwaseung house is decent, but could you use new photos? The suspense buildup for a lol moment is not there because I expect the Jaedong's disapproval pic at the last slot
But seriously, its kinda the running theme that every non-special edition HH ends with that same Jaedong shot. Maybe if I get a really good idea I would change it but I would rather the text itself can provide the gag without having to continually search for expressive Jaedong pics.
I agree, the last JD photo is what makes Hwaseung House so awesome. This one was great as well, hopefully you'll think of something amazing for the next one ^_^
Oh yeah, and Hwaseung 3-2 with someone other than Jaedong winning one game. One single game. Please?
KT are probably going to win this 3-1, only Jaedong is odds on to win his game. However, I'm actually hoping for it to get to Ace so we see another Flash v Jaedong confrontation. Plus, my fantasy team demands it.
On October 28 2009 11:17 AzureEye wrote: Hwaseung house is decent, but could you use new photos? The suspense buildup for a lol moment is not there because I expect the Jaedong's disapproval pic at the last slot
But seriously, its kinda the running theme that every non-special edition HH ends with that same Jaedong shot. Maybe if I get a really good idea I would change it but I would rather the text itself can provide the gag without having to continually search for expressive Jaedong pics.
That last JD face is ok, but you can try a punchline with JD's silly face i think it would be hilarious.
I just tuned it for battle, did i see correctly that killer was up +1 armor in that battle?And still got owned that badly?God his micro sucked, lux got like 2 more shots off at the beggining of it
On October 28 2009 13:18 Itachii wrote: I just tuned it for battle, did i see correctly that killer was up +1 armor in that battle?And still got owned that badly?God his micro sucked, lux got like 2 more shots off at the beggining of it
Evo chamber= 125 mins +1 larva, 1 spore =175 mins and a larva. 300 mins and 2 larva got wasted by killer. He coulda made another hatch with that kind of cash. instead he spends it on a spore. Off of 1 base. how in the world can your spire be that much slower do require a spore when you are both off of 1 base?
On October 28 2009 13:20 Chen wrote: Evo chamber= 125 mins +1 larva, 1 spore =175 mins and a larva. 300 mins and 2 larva got wasted by killer. He coulda made another hatch with that kind of cash. instead he spends it on a spore. Off of 1 base. how in the world can your spire be that much slower do require a spore when you are both off of 1 base?
His spire wasn't even much slower. He hatched his first mutas, then made the decision to make an evo.
Couldn't watch the game, this is what I've gathered. Killer goes 9pool lux goes overgas, Killer is unable to get anything done with the early lings and is far behind because of the b/o's; mutas come out, killer opts for plus one armor and gets a spore so he can survive while the up finishes; lux has a small muta advantage and manages to get a few free shots off which wins him the muta battle regardless of killers up. Killer gg's? Confirm or deny anyone?
On October 28 2009 13:20 Chen wrote: Evo chamber= 125 mins +1 larva, 1 spore =175 mins and a larva. 300 mins and 2 larva got wasted by killer. He coulda made another hatch with that kind of cash. instead he spends it on a spore. Off of 1 base. how in the world can your spire be that much slower do require a spore when you are both off of 1 base?
The spore was to help prevent any kind of muta backstab for whenever he did eventually move out with his mutas and he wouldn't even be able to support a second hat of muta production. Also, it was 9speed vs overgas so spire timings were close enough but Lux had a lot of excess gas.
On October 28 2009 13:22 MuffinDude wrote: lol, killer is pretty bad for #2 zerg, hes at khan's #2 zerg level, no wait, a bit better, juni just sux.
KHAN's #2 is probably oDin in terms of skill. Juni does suck.
Lol, I was like odin? Hes ancient, and I wanted to say chavi, but I havn't seen him play enough. I don't understand why january plays juni so much. He sux, no offense, as a khan fan, i want to see juni do something, but he just sux.
Actually, the spire timings worked out pretty well. Their economies were actually pretty even as well: Luxury had built one sunken and a bunch of lings, and Killer had built a few drones. Killer's economy looked bad because he built an evo, a spore, and had four drones on gas for a while.
I thought he was planning on defending with spore/muta, and then droning up and building a second hatchery... but in that case, it makes no sense to move out with your mutalisks.
On October 28 2009 13:28 Beside_kr wrote: Falcon isn't even playing for Oz anymore. ggaemo is Oz's second best zerg, Killer is brutal, I don't know why they play him so often
On October 28 2009 13:28 Beside_kr wrote: Falcon isn't even playing for Oz anymore. ggaemo is Oz's second best zerg, Killer is brutal, I don't know why they play him so often
Falcon retired.
that's what I was saying, someone else mentioned him earlier and I was just pointing out that he's not on their roster
On October 28 2009 11:18 Chen wrote: Can you guys imagine the absolute devastation in FPL if 815 wins? 400 people who have him on their antis get ninja -4 and the 800 people with JD on their main team go home with nothing.
LOL. I am good. jk. What happened to JvZ? is it just me or is Hyuk the best ZvZer atm roflmao.
On October 28 2009 13:07 T.O.P. wrote: [quote] Did we say anywhere on this thread that we're going to stream?????
Indeed it does
Yeah, the op is saying Orange Tv is streaming. I didn't know the op was a producer on our channel.
Well usually the OP confirms with who is streaming before posting. Am I wrong to assume this?
Your sarcasm is unwarranted.
He doesn't. He just posted that. Never pmed me or anything.
How should we know. Don't go crazy about random stuff and we're all good
He does it a lot -_-
He gets blamed for not streaming while some random people post that he will stream.Wouldn't you?
No I wouldn't. In fact I couldn't care less.
You couldn't care less but yet you reply to him defending himself? Get lost
It's because he makes a drama out of simple things. Where is the problem in just saying the OP is misinformed and he is not streaming, instead of using inappropriate sarcasm and making people, who can't know any better, make look bad? Also how is my carelessness exactly related to his defense? As far as i can tell no one attacked or blame him in the first place and even if so, it's the internet, stop taking yourself so very seriously. But maybe thats just me.
On October 28 2009 13:35 justiceknight wrote: lucky i traded 815 in my AT last week LOL
He was in a sure-fire going to happen ZvZ game against Jaedong. 1 lineup appearance he was very likely going to lose. The only possible reason to even want to trade him would have been if you felt KT was going to keep winning nonstop (I didn't, and they did lose their last match).
zergs 12 hatch all the time on hbr...And I dont really get the point in drawing absurb conclusions from zvz where one guy wins because he has more lings...nothing much to say except a lot of lings is better than a little bit of lings.
On October 28 2009 13:37 asdfTT123 wrote: This is not Jaedong. That was one of the saddest ZvZ's I've ever witnessed. I feel so bad for the kid...something must be going on in the Oz house -_-
Please, HiyA and BackHo pull of the impossible...
Hiya would have a shot if it weren't a TvT versus Flash ...
On October 28 2009 13:37 asdfTT123 wrote: This is not Jaedong. That was one of the saddest ZvZ's I've ever witnessed. I feel so bad for the kid...something must be going on in the Oz house -_-
Please, HiyA and BackHo pull of the impossible...
Hiya would have a shot if it weren't a TvT versus Flash ...
Sad day for Oz ...
The last time Flash lost a PL TvT, the winning player was...
No he isn't. If he improves his ZvT to something very respectable, he'll be up there. No one can be considered "up the top" of the pack if they have a FBH sized weakness in one matchup. And he's ZvT record is worse than FBH's TvP which to say the least is bad.
On October 28 2009 13:08 Hopkingreenfrog wrote: [quote]
Indeed it does
Yeah, the op is saying Orange Tv is streaming. I didn't know the op was a producer on our channel.
Well usually the OP confirms with who is streaming before posting. Am I wrong to assume this?
Your sarcasm is unwarranted.
He doesn't. He just posted that. Never pmed me or anything.
How should we know. Don't go crazy about random stuff and we're all good
He does it a lot -_-
He gets blamed for not streaming while some random people post that he will stream.Wouldn't you?
No I wouldn't. In fact I couldn't care less.
You couldn't care less but yet you reply to him defending himself? Get lost
It's because he makes a drama out of simple things. Where is the problem in just saying the OP is misinformed and he is not streaming, instead of using inappropriate sarcasm and making people, who can't know any better, make look bad? Also how is my carelessness exactly related to his defense? As far as i can tell no one attacked or blame him in the first place and even if so, it's the internet, stop taking yourself so very seriously. But maybe thats just me.
Its not really my problem so ill stop arguing here, you just gotta know that stream is avalivable when the actual owner posts it instead of random people.If others blame the owner for not streaming and he comes to defend himself, with sarcasm or without, its none of your buissness. Its internet, but you gotta respect people who do so much for the commiunity, like TOP.
On October 28 2009 13:11 T.O.P. wrote: [quote] Yeah, the op is saying Orange Tv is streaming. I didn't know the op was a producer on our channel.
Well usually the OP confirms with who is streaming before posting. Am I wrong to assume this?
Your sarcasm is unwarranted.
He doesn't. He just posted that. Never pmed me or anything.
How should we know. Don't go crazy about random stuff and we're all good
He does it a lot -_-
He gets blamed for not streaming while some random people post that he will stream.Wouldn't you?
No I wouldn't. In fact I couldn't care less.
You couldn't care less but yet you reply to him defending himself? Get lost
It's because he makes a drama out of simple things. Where is the problem in just saying the OP is misinformed and he is not streaming, instead of using inappropriate sarcasm and making people, who can't know any better, make look bad? Also how is my carelessness exactly related to his defense? As far as i can tell no one attacked or blame him in the first place and even if so, it's the internet, stop taking yourself so very seriously. But maybe thats just me.
Its not really my problem so ill stop arguing here, you just gotta know that stream is avalivable when the actual owner posts it instead of random people.If others blame the owner for not streaming and he comes to defend himself, with sarcasm or without, its none of your buissness. Its internet, but you gotta respect people who do so much for the commiunity, like TOP.
Well, the thing is, the OP just copy pasted that portion from another thread, and because the stream posted in the OP is usually posted by the streamers, I don't see why he was wrong in asking why it didn't work.
On October 28 2009 13:43 Avidkeystamper wrote: 12 hatch is less of a risk on this map, the distances make it a normal build for HBR.
Is that so? If it is, I guess I can see where you're coming from. Still, I can't see any advantage for Jaedong in doing something that can be hard-countered like that.
On October 28 2009 13:11 T.O.P. wrote: [quote] Yeah, the op is saying Orange Tv is streaming. I didn't know the op was a producer on our channel.
Well usually the OP confirms with who is streaming before posting. Am I wrong to assume this?
Your sarcasm is unwarranted.
He doesn't. He just posted that. Never pmed me or anything.
How should we know. Don't go crazy about random stuff and we're all good
He does it a lot -_-
He gets blamed for not streaming while some random people post that he will stream.Wouldn't you?
No I wouldn't. In fact I couldn't care less.
You couldn't care less but yet you reply to him defending himself? Get lost
It's because he makes a drama out of simple things. Where is the problem in just saying the OP is misinformed and he is not streaming, instead of using inappropriate sarcasm and making people, who can't know any better, make look bad? Also how is my carelessness exactly related to his defense? As far as i can tell no one attacked or blame him in the first place and even if so, it's the internet, stop taking yourself so very seriously. But maybe thats just me.
Its not really my problem so ill stop arguing here, you just gotta know that stream is avalivable when the actual owner posts it instead of random people.If others blame the owner for not streaming and he comes to defend himself, with sarcasm or without, its none of your buissness. Its internet, but you gotta respect people who do so much for the commiunity, like TOP.
I still can't see where he was blamed for not streaming, also thanks for telling me what is my business, however I am able to decide that on my own, thanks anyway.
He can be the best poster in the world, if he treats others like shit (watch out, exaggeration!) I will never respect him.
On October 28 2009 13:33 MuffinDude wrote: wow, jaedong is in a slump. losing to random zergs, his jvz is now a zvz now.
This was a BO loss, and Hyuk's actually good now. ?
Seems to me more like a "going 12 hatch on a two-player map" loss.
I guess we can just say that Jaedong didn't anticipate correctly what build 815 was going to go for.
12 Hatch is an advantage against everything except 9 pool first. It's good against even overgas, or 9gas pool. So...?
9pool speed is like the only thing Hyuk could have gone. Didn't see if he went that build but it's the build he needed to prepare against. Against that he needs to do like overgas. You can't think "it counters everything but this" when that build is the only plausible option for Hyuk.
2 Fact push... totally expected from Hiya. He knows the only chance he has against Flash is one kick micro management battle. No one can take a long game from Flash... now Flash, it's time for you to show us if you are ready to end Star Craft. We have always known you have it in you.
On October 28 2009 13:52 Kenpachi wrote: im happy i made Flash my Capt and JD just a team member
Same, but I still don't think I could actually trade Jaedong away (even though that's why I made Flash captain and not him...). Jaedong is just too good to not put up some huge numbers in the coming weeks, or so I'd think. We'll see when the lineups come out...
one upon a time i did a cast at www.livestream.com/striderdoom where i talked about how important it was not to lose control of your central high ground entrance.
4 vultures from dropship rape all of Hiyas SCVs at main. 1.5 base from Hiya vs whats about to be 3 base Flash. Tanks streaming in backdoor, Hiya losing his nat gas, 15 tanks going in the front now.
Hiya needed to push push push when he broke out with his allin force. He couldn't win with a contain, he needed to keep going or die trying, but he didn't have the balls necessary. Also, Flash is looking really, really good.
holy shit flash when hiya pushed into your base twice (especially the first time when he had seige and u didint) i thought u were going to lose but u r a monster and i love u
still tho, i think that if anyone can challenge flash, it would have to be firebathero, fantasy, hiya and skyhigh and leta
On October 28 2009 14:10 gngfn wrote: Flash passes iloveoov's peak ELO for real this time, leaving him at 2346, in third place behind Bisu (2364) and Jaedong (2360).
Flash Bisu and Jaedong were the first Champions i heard of when i started to gain interest in the pro scene so thats soooo cool :D
On October 28 2009 14:13 Hinanawi wrote: Flash and Bisu both currently at their personal best Elo in their mirror matches.
Flash TvT: 2271 Bisu PvP: 2270 Jaedong ZvZ: 2222
Unbelievable how Jaedong started losing ZvZ. A while ago he seems unstoppable and now he looks mortal again... His peak is sickly high compared to Flash and Bisu in theor respective mirrors...
isnt flash suppose to play in like 2 hours for the osl group??? didnt people sau he wont overwork this year ?? did they clone him or what?? he's a machine unbeleivable damn oz is losing its grip.....
On October 28 2009 14:15 pvzvt wrote: isnt flash suppose to play in like 2 hours for the osl group??? didnt people sau he wont overwork this year ?? did they clone him or what?? he's a machine unbeleivable damn oz is losing its grip.....
Well they don't call Flash the "Child Labor Terran" for nothing.
Flash saying he knew he would lose if he were to let his guard down, so he consistently checked his opponent's build and played accordingly to win
Flash saying he wins a lot because he is able to anticipate what his opponents are doing
Flash eye twitching again
When asked who might end his TvT streak, Flash says he has no name he can think of at the moment, and despite having confidence to win everyone, he says he will know when the time comes.
On October 28 2009 14:13 Hinanawi wrote: Flash and Bisu both currently at their personal best Elo in their mirror matches.
Flash TvT: 2271 Bisu PvP: 2270 Jaedong ZvZ: 2222
Unbelievable how Jaedong started losing ZvZ. A while ago he seems unstoppable and now he looks mortal again... His peak is sickly high compared to Flash and Bisu in theor respective mirrors...
jaedong is on osl curse. dont worry, he will come back to win his 4th osl, 3 osl consecutively
This is going to be one of the most amazing months of Starcraft dominance in recent history if Flash also beats his OSL group tonight.
What a fucking BEAST.
I was originally planning on sleeping after this, but I'm going to take a couple caffeine pills so I can stay up to watch Flash's OSL games, no way I can miss the finale to his performances this month.
On October 28 2009 14:13 Hinanawi wrote: Flash and Bisu both currently at their personal best Elo in their mirror matches.
Flash TvT: 2271 Bisu PvP: 2270 Jaedong ZvZ: 2222
Unbelievable how Jaedong started losing ZvZ. A while ago he seems unstoppable and now he looks mortal again... His peak is sickly high compared to Flash and Bisu in theor respective mirrors...
jaedong is on osl curse. dont worry, he will come back to win his 4th osl, 3 osl consecutively
Yea, I think players who are deeply seeded in the star leagues take the early season to rest up.
On October 28 2009 14:15 pvzvt wrote: isnt flash suppose to play in like 2 hours for the osl group??? didnt people sau he wont overwork this year ?? did they clone him or what?? he's a machine unbeleivable damn oz is losing its grip.....
On October 28 2009 14:18 Hinanawi wrote: I was originally planning on sleeping after this, but I'm going to take a couple caffeine pills so I can stay up to watch Flash's OSL games, no way I can miss the finale to his performances this month.
Konadora, did you watch the game from the begining? Hiya never had that game won. Flash went 1 Fac Expo, and Hiya went 2 Fac. The initial push was stopped easily by some sick defence by Flash, and from there on he was way ahead. Hiya's second refinery was really fucking late. His push was nice, but it didn't do more than give him brief map control that was easily broken when Flash's econ advantage kicked in. Once Flash broke it, the game was over.
God, hes lost so many games to medicore zergs because of 12 hatch. Even if you go 9 pool vs 12 pool, u still gotta a chance with good micro. With 12 hatch its auto loss vs 9 pool on a 2 player map. Bad decision making.
On October 28 2009 14:24 Holgerius wrote: Konadora, did you watch the game from the begining? Hiya never had that game won. Flash went 1 Fac Expo, and Hiya went 2 Fac. The initial push was stopped easily by some sick defence by Flash, and from there on he was way ahead. Hiya's second refinery was really fucking late. His push was nice, but it didn't do more than give him brief map control that was easily broken when Flash's econ advantage kicked in. Once Flash broke it, the game was over.
no i didn't, but Hiya had the high ground advantage, and he was still quite ahead by containing Flash. But he just had to over-do himself and lose a bunch of tanks without even scanning
There is something seriously wrong with JD. He could overcome any disadvantage in zvz with ease and style, and now he is losing left and right? It's almost like Hyuk passed his jynx on to JD while stealing his mojo.
lol @ HH By the way, to everyone who thinks that JD is slumping: He has played 5 games in proleague so far, 4 of which has been ZvZ. Hyuk > JD Zero > JD Zero < JD 815 > JD However, all of his losses were on Heartbreak Ridge, (he won against Zero on Outsider) so I think he is not used to/doesn't like the map or something like that.
ahh hard times to be a JD / Oz fan, let the guy play something else than ZvZ now! other than 815 winning the results weren't really that surprising ;< excellent HH anyways!
On October 28 2009 15:37 Avidkeystamper wrote: Who was that one notable zerg who could ZvP and ZvZ but not ZvT? He still plays SC right now.
Uh... there are a lot of zergs like that. Yarnc is the opposite. July can't zvz. Chojja? Silver? Oh, probably gorush actually.
ZERGMAN!!! khm...63% is good yes? vP he was like 51%. Who cares. But vT he was 35%. But he was retired. ChoJJa was decent againts all, as i remember, as Mr. 50% GGPlay. But Silver makes the points, be he is retired also. ~60%vZ ~60%vP ~30%vT Gorush was decent in all MU's (~it's like 50-55%)
On October 28 2009 21:55 Piy wrote: Maybe now people will finally believe me when I say that Flash has been the best player for the last 2 years...probably not though.
i wouldn't say last 2 years, but i think he definitely's been the best terran, or even player, for a while.
stop digging up statistics and reasons why JD does not suck atm "hey hes gone 12 hatch" so he picks the wrong strat HIS fault(especially if he does it over and over again on HBR) and things like "815 is good in zvz" or "he won 1 of his last 4 zvz" PLEASE JD was a monster in zvz he could start 3 mins later than the other guy and play with one hand behind his back and still destroy zergs left and right If kespas number 1 who had around 1000 points more than guys like Bisu and Flash is loosing to ZerO,Hyuk and 815.... I mean come on 815!!! and you still don`t admit that he sucks right now who the hell should beat him that you get it? ..idra? HAHAHA no sorry that was silly
On October 28 2009 11:18 Chen wrote: Can you guys imagine the absolute devastation in FPL if 815 wins? 400 people who have him on their antis get ninja -4 and the 800 people with JD on their main team go home with nothing.
This happens every time JD loses a game, especially build order loss which is apparently an even worse way to lose because it shows how much you suck at guessing. If this is anything like last time the posts will go away when JD wins the next OSL.
Out of curiosity, why do you guys think that JD went for something as risky as 12 hatch on a 2 player map? Out of all the BO fails, 12 hatch vs. 9 pool is the only instant loss on a 2 player map. Any other BO, with good micro, it's more than possible to get back.
Is it because JD is lacking confidence in his muta and ling micro and is afraid to play a game without econ advantage?
Or is it because he's too cocky with his drone micro? Or is it because hes on a break and not really taking games seriously right now?
On October 29 2009 00:10 lone_hydra wrote: Out of curiosity, why do you guys think that JD went for something as risky as 12 hatch on a 2 player map? Out of all the BO fails, 12 hatch vs. 9 pool is the only instant loss on a 2 player map. Any other BO, with good micro, it's more than possible to get back.
Is it because JD is lacking confidence in his muta and ling micro and is afraid to play a game without econ advantage?
Or is it because he's too cocky with his drone micro? Or is it because hes on a break and not really taking games seriously right now?
you guys with your "seriously" .. thats like when michael schuhmacher didnt win a GP, people would say " he didnt take the race seriously" ..
I don't really understand all the Jaedong hate to be honest. ZvZ is the craziest mirror, it is the exact opposite of TvT. In ZvZ the first player to make a mistake loses the game, this includes choosing the wrong BO. In TvT there's far more room for error since terran is so defensive. Take Flash v Hiya last night, Flash made an enormous series of mistakes allowing Hiya to push him back to his base, if Flash did that in a ZvZ that would have been game right there. I think this makes what Jaedong accomplished all the more impressive, to master such a matchup. Sure it doesn't seem like JvZ anymore but this doesn't mean he sucks, more like he is mortal. I don't think that I would choose anyone as a favorite over Jaedong in ZvZ, even with his less than stellar performance in it as of late.
On October 29 2009 00:10 lone_hydra wrote: Out of curiosity, why do you guys think that JD went for something as risky as 12 hatch on a 2 player map? Out of all the BO fails, 12 hatch vs. 9 pool is the only instant loss on a 2 player map. Any other BO, with good micro, it's more than possible to get back.
Is it because JD is lacking confidence in his muta and ling micro and is afraid to play a game without econ advantage?
Or is it because he's too cocky with his drone micro? Or is it because hes on a break and not really taking games seriously right now?
12hatch and 12pool expand, and overgas are really popular builds on HBR for ZvZ. I guess Jaedong probably thought that 815 would play kinda normal and Jaedong took the risk with the greediest build of the three. 815 guessed correctly that Jaedong would use one of those three builds and went for 9pool. Jaedong also has been using greedy builds a lot in ZvZ the past little while, so 815 probably was confident that Jaedong would use a greedy build this time too.
The last time (before calm) that jaedong had a zvz downswing he was on the opposite end of the b.o game playing 9pool and overpool against 12pool/hat and 11pool/10gas and people said "He has too much faith in his micro" now he is losing on the other end of the game people are playing "He has weak micro". Right now every zerg is getting better and jaedong is trying to play the overall strongest build and that is costing him a few games.
I am glad he is on a downswing. Other zergs do deserve some credit for how much they've shrunken the gap that was comparable to oovs tvz, boxers tvz and julyzerg zvp. Good job 815 playing a 9pool against jaedong takes fucking HUUUUGE balls, HUUUUUGE.
I don't understand what the problem is. ZvZ is nearly all micro. Micro to defend well. Micro to attack well. I guess it might be Jaedong having too much faith in his ability to create a opening in his opponents defensive line when he goes 9 pool. It is the same with Macro oriented builds where Jaedong is on the other end where he has to fight off opponent.
I always liked it better when JD was super aggressive with his lings and would win before mutas came out, or win the second they came out. Now he just sits in his base and gives complete control to the opponent.
On October 29 2009 02:19 TanGeng wrote: I don't understand what the problem is. ZvZ is nearly all micro. Micro to defend well. Micro to attack well. I guess it might be Jaedong having too much faith in his ability to create a opening in his opponents defensive line when he goes 9 pool. It is the same with Macro oriented builds where Jaedong is on the other end where he has to fight off opponent.
Micro only goes so far when you have a bunch of drones verses 6 zerglings
On October 29 2009 00:10 lone_hydra wrote: Out of curiosity, why do you guys think that JD went for something as risky as 12 hatch on a 2 player map? Out of all the BO fails, 12 hatch vs. 9 pool is the only instant loss on a 2 player map. Any other BO, with good micro, it's more than possible to get back.
Is it because JD is lacking confidence in his muta and ling micro and is afraid to play a game without econ advantage?
Or is it because he's too cocky with his drone micro? Or is it because hes on a break and not really taking games seriously right now?
12hatch and 12pool expand, and overgas are really popular builds on HBR for ZvZ. I guess Jaedong probably thought that 815 would play kinda normal and Jaedong took the risk with the greediest build of the three. 815 guessed correctly that Jaedong would use one of those three builds and went for 9pool. Jaedong also has been using greedy builds a lot in ZvZ the past little while, so 815 probably was confident that Jaedong would use a greedy build this time too.
What do you mean he "guessed correctly" that Jaedong would use one of those three builds? Doesn't 9 pool lose to Overgas AND 12 Pool? He must have guessed/hoped/believed correctly that JD would 12 Hatch because otherwise he's behind....
On October 29 2009 00:10 lone_hydra wrote: Out of curiosity, why do you guys think that JD went for something as risky as 12 hatch on a 2 player map? Out of all the BO fails, 12 hatch vs. 9 pool is the only instant loss on a 2 player map. Any other BO, with good micro, it's more than possible to get back.
Is it because JD is lacking confidence in his muta and ling micro and is afraid to play a game without econ advantage?
Or is it because he's too cocky with his drone micro? Or is it because hes on a break and not really taking games seriously right now?
12hatch and 12pool expand, and overgas are really popular builds on HBR for ZvZ. I guess Jaedong probably thought that 815 would play kinda normal and Jaedong took the risk with the greediest build of the three. 815 guessed correctly that Jaedong would use one of those three builds and went for 9pool. Jaedong also has been using greedy builds a lot in ZvZ the past little while, so 815 probably was confident that Jaedong would use a greedy build this time too.
What do you mean he "guessed correctly" that Jaedong would use one of those three builds? Doesn't 9 pool lose to Overgas AND 12 Pool? He must have guessed/hoped/believed correctly that JD would 12 Hatch because otherwise he's behind....
9pool lair isn't so bad vs overgas if you morph larva to scourge when spire pops and park them outside his hatching muta eggs or kill as many ovies as possible before his spire pops to at least slow him down. You'll also prob get to expand before the other zerg too. When you 9speed vs overgas, you kind of hope to have whored drones a bit too much and didn't save larva for lings which is pretty common with people who overgas. They are going to be relying on sunk Plus, on 2p maps, it's very possible to hide lings from scouting overlord and just destroy them then.
On October 29 2009 05:11 vRoOk wrote: Dammit Jaedong is supposed to be Bonjwa.. you gotta win 4 OSLS then noone can deny you!
Instead he's getting buttfucked
Maybe its the OSL curse?
nah its the FA shit
He's already won as much as savior did over a similar time scale, while doing infinitely better in the ever more important proleague than the maestro ever did, what do people demand? Imo he could lose every game for the rest of his career from this point and still be top three most accomplished bw player ever.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i35.tinypic.com/2ql7sht.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i36.tinypic.com/34hx3jd.png)
Luxury < Tornado > 
Flash < Moon Glaive > 
Violet < Match Point > ![[image loading]](http://i33.tinypic.com/258rszo.png)
![[image loading]](http://i33.tinypic.com/4g68g0.png)
![[image loading]](http://i33.tinypic.com/2d98ehi.png)
![[image loading]](http://i37.tinypic.com/208xrx2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i34.tinypic.com/wwj9ed.png)
T)Flash < (P)BackHo
--> :/ I don't know why but I really thought we were gonna take down Skt1... holy fuck, hyuk... really? I hope something good happens tonight (HiyA or Backho playing well would be nice). 
![[image loading]](http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9500/ktkorner2.png)
