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[SPL] KT vs eSTRO - Page 37

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 35 36 37 38 39 41 Next All
Ra.Xor.2
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1784 Posts
October 10 2009 06:19 GMT
#721
On October 10 2009 15:17 jalstar wrote:
+1 speedlot push: the new Bisu build

+1 speedlot push is older than Bisu
#1 Flash Fan
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
October 10 2009 06:20 GMT
#722
AWWW Violet loses like 8 zealots
dats racist
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
October 10 2009 06:20 GMT
#723
hahaha that was a pimp lurker snipe by the zealot force
iamho
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3347 Posts
October 10 2009 06:20 GMT
#724
all zeals slaughtered
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
October 10 2009 06:20 GMT
#725
On October 10 2009 15:18 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 15:17 jalstar wrote:
+1 speedlot push: the new Bisu build

It's not new, it's just not been necessary, was first used last year sometime.

you meant this?it needs 2 archons :S
+ Show Spoiler +


The Build -

* Simply, after double Nex, Get an archive and 4 gates. After 2 archons - produce speed+1 zealots and pressure/attack the zerg.
* 7.5 Pylon, 11 Forge, 13 Cannon (x2), 15 pylon. 18 Nexus+Gate => Main Gas, Core, front gas, Stargate, Citadel, Templar+3 gate. +1, 4 HT, Speed up, Make speed zealots... at around 8:30, attack.
* The 4 gate 2 archon build is used to fight Zerg Neo-Sauron builds.
(9 pool, 6 ling, front hatch, 3rd base hatch, gas, lair, lingspeed, spire/scourge, +2 hatch - Den+Chamber. )
* Once again, I re-iterate, this build is to fight Neo-Sauron Zergs.
* If the zerg shows switch up, there must be adjustments made, and the following will be an explanation on how to do so.

1 - The Double Nexus -

*The Build Order - 7.5 Pylon, 11 Forge, 13 Cannon (x2), 15 pylon. 18 Nexus
*Key Points
- When pool is half done, the forge must be coming up.
- Even if the forge and pool finish at the same time, ling make+travel time = finished cannons.
- Minor variations dependant on map.
- If you are given a little freedom due to the pool being late, you can build a nexus and if still given further freedom by opposition, build a gate!
- If the zerg aggresively 3 hatch 0 pools, do a Nexus -no forge 2 gate. While harassing with zealots, producing probes and teching are both possible. However, the zerg, due to making zerglings+sunkens will not be able to do anything else.
- It is because of this 9 pool is the standard. To stop the 9 pool, the basic double nex build is as described above and admittedly slower.

* The Defence -
- 2-4 zerglings = 1 photon. More lings - 2 photon. If speed up or around 12 lings, 3 photon.
- In most ling heavy scenarios, 3 is plenty.
- More importantly is the sim city + Probe/Zealot path blocking to not even let the lings onto the cannons in the first place.
- Specifically, Gate on top, Forge on bottom = No ling run by. This is an important feature a toss should utilize.
- If the zerg does speed up or 8+ lings, block/narrow the entrance with probes.
- Trying to conserve 2-4 more probes will end the game. The zerg is obviously poor so there is no need to feel like you must have 2-4 extra probes working for your econ.
- As money allows, replace the probes with 1-2 zealots from the gates.

*The Scouting -
- Is it 12 hatch or 9 pool, pool timing is the most important thing here.
- then, are lings making or drones? Then 'What is the hatch count and gas timing.
- Most zergs put up the hatches they want (3/4) before they make the gas.
- By this assumption, we can usually get a feel for if the zerg has taken his 2nd natural or not.
- Depending on gas timing, Hydra, Muta, Lurker can be guessed.
- If you were breached by the all in, watch the replay with an emphasis on the zergs gas timing/usage.
- Checking for Chogoling speed up is obv important.
- If the gas has been up for awhile but there is no lair in sight, high probability of a chogoling break.
- If the scouting probe is caught and the zerg is containing outside movement from the toss's nat and even if scouting seems hard, you can't be still.
- It is good to fake probe movements in and out of the base to check for chogospeed.
- If no speed up, fake probe movement (Usually towards their choke ol) and then FAKE JUKE TIKI BARBER that shit to the other side.
- After the zergs natural expo, if the 3rd hatch is towards the main, be very cautious.

2 - The Core Timing -

* Build order - (After Gate) - Core, Nat Gas, Stargate, Citadel.
- Before the core is complete, the nat gas must be put up to prevent gas shortage.
- A goon is always a nice choice to prevent more ol scouting.
- Because the timing between citadel and robo branches are so similar, it is often a good idea to construct them around the nat by habit. Also, robos are better constructed there anyways in case of defence.
- If the Zerg's tech is late (4 Hatch Gas), corsairs are not even needed. [This isn't mentioned but I assume no SG at all]

* The Defence -
- If unsure of the zergs exact intentions, another photon up front for 3 isn't a bad choice.
- Pure Hydra Break - Cancel all probes and cannon like no tomorrow. Magu Magu Photon Photon.
- If hydras are trying to fast break the gate, bring a probe up to the gate and get ready to re-construct the gate to buy extra time is a good option.
- If the Zorg went fast 2 hatch gas and the tech is SUPA FAST~ at about SG completion time, put 1-2 photon at the main.

* The Scouting -
- The Sair is better off looking at zerg intentions rather than overlord hunting.
- Just because scourge are out, don't keep the sair in your main. Avoid the scourges and looking at the zerg is very beneficial
- Post 3-hatch, if the 4 and 5 hatchery do not pop up, mutalisks all-in are much more likely.
- If hatcheries 4 and 5 are up, the zerg has less than 200 minerals. He can't make mutas!
- It is important to discover the natural gas status also. If the gas is already up, a gas heavy muta or lurker attack will be coming.

*OMG! It's not a spire!
- If it's not spire, it's ling hydra lurker.
- Since the sair neutralizing scourges are not there, Sair-reaver is a good choice. If the Citadel is already up, Sair-DT is a good choice.
- It is still possible to ignore it all and go 4gate 2 archon.

3 -Two Archons and +1 Spd Zealots -

*Build Order - (After Citadel) - +1 attack, Templar Archives, 3 gateways, 2 archons, Speed up, 4 gateway zealot pump.
- The above build is the standard but depending on the zorgs status, what comes first does differs.
- Afterwards, product sufficient zealchon from gates and put down a pylong at the 2nd natural to PREPAREeeee FORrrrrrr EXPANSION~~~.

*Fast Mutal Defence.
- Even if you scout that it's not muta, 2 cannons in your main is standard. (It is encouraged that you have a bountiful and abundant 3 flower harvest)
- As aforementioned, if the nat gas is made but the 4/5th hatcheries are missing, it is wise to assume mutalisks.
- Even with an archon, without cannons/sair fast power mutals will shake you up. 3-4 Cannons at main, 2-3 sairs plz. Plz plz.
- Most Zorgs that go mutal defend with many sunkenlisks. If the sunken count looks low, poking him with your 2 archon superlot and sairs is recommended. (While expanding).
- If this isn't the case, prepare your 2nd expo! The mutals will aggravatingly rape your macro polo probe, and this is another reason many sairs are needed. Also, if you feel your probe micro sux and the mutas will rape it, going ahead and setting a probe there before hand to preserve your original intended expo timing isn't bad.

* Fast Lurkers
- Similar to mutals, if the nat gas is fast and the hydra den is fast, faster lurkers will be looking to contain you.
- Instead of Archons or Speed Up, adding only 2-3 gates + robotics + Goon range + Templar&Obs is recommended.
- Make 1-2 DTs and hide them somewhere. Later, when he is harassing your expos, your harass him back ninja style.
- When breaking the lurker contain, take a shuttle full of 4 zealots and harass the back and then attempting to break the lurker is much easier street.
- If your 1-2 DT's made it out, harass with these dt's now.
- When breaking the contain, having 1 archon is really nice. It serves as a good lead. Because the hydras and lings come towards the archon, the rear templars can get easy storms.

* Scourge, Hydra, Then Lurker
- Making scourges to pressure the corsair while making hydras, then follwing up with lurkers is the standard.
- Until the Zealots are Archons are destroyed, the Protoss will have the center.
- At this moment, you have to make your 2nd natural, but speed up ling movement to halt this will be seen.
- In this case, instead of moving all your zealots out, send a few to confront the zerglings and to hold the territory.
- Keep pumping zealots while reseraching Storm. Prepare HT while raising a robo and get observers.
- As you pump templar, your gas will deplete and minerals will be left over. This is when you increase gateways.

4. - The Second Half Charge -

* Overcoming The Lair Timing
- Massing Dragoons and Templar while destroying the zerg's lair units and pushing the nat is the ultimate goal of this strat.
- It is recommended to be on a wider and more open map where dragoons can fight to their full potential, like Tau Cross.
- If the zerg survives and gets to hive, adrenal+swarm makes goons useless and the game will become increasingly difficult

*Split Map Fights ("Macro Wars")
- The main way to win is to follow the zerg step in step for expo's while constructing a hanbang.
- Zealots - Archons - Templar will be the base units and later the reaver must be incorporated.
- Putting a robo (or two) at your expos will help fight defiler and zergling terrorism!!!!
- If you control the center and carelessly expand, cracklings will shake you up and ruin your pretty Nexus in an instant.
- In preparation for doom drops on the main, many photons (You will have money left, 5, 7, 10, flower fields!) are recommended. While Dark Swarm nullifies these, they buy precious time. And you must quickly defend with speed up shuttle/reavers.
- Be careful and please take good care of your corsairs. If you can gather it up, mass corsairs is very powerful, but because of the high gas cost, your army can become lacking.
- Until you are sure of victory, do not go into a zerg's defensive line. Especially don't smash into a sunken line. Concentrate on gathering an archon and reaver count, stop or slow down zerg expo attempts, and be sure to keep your econ safe of any threats.
- Got money left over? Photon Photon Photon Gate Gate Gate.
.
La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
October 10 2009 06:20 GMT
#726
GODDAMN thats ALOT of goons

Violet is trying to prevent his templars from getting their ass sniped from mutas
dats racist
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
October 10 2009 06:21 GMT
#727
WOW 2 observer snipes, Hyva nice
dats racist
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
October 10 2009 06:22 GMT
#728
Violet still has a sloppy micro


he lost like 9 obserrvers wtf
dats racist
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
October 10 2009 06:22 GMT
#729
On October 10 2009 15:19 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 15:18 Nevuk wrote:
On October 10 2009 15:17 jalstar wrote:
+1 speedlot push: the new Bisu build

It's not new, it's just not been necessary, was first used last year sometime.


neither was the original Bisu build

but now Bisu uses it vs Jaedong and it's used in like 3 pvz's straight

Yeah, that's what I meant. It's only started to be necessary becasue 5 hatch hydra got so annoying, there's 2 threads in the strat forum on it, the most recent variant involves getting the early early +1 seen here and delaying speed for it while still keeping sairs.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
October 10 2009 06:22 GMT
#730
On October 10 2009 15:19 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 15:17 jalstar wrote:
+1 speedlot push: the new Bisu build

+1 speedlot push is older than Bisu


"bisu build" as in "every toss is copying bisu because he beat the dominant zerg easily with it"
Slow Motion
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6960 Posts
October 10 2009 06:22 GMT
#731
lol how many observers has violet lost
RainmanMP
Profile Joined October 2007
United States1699 Posts
October 10 2009 06:22 GMT
#732
Obs speed for violet lol.
이영호 FIGHTING! Die Hard KT Rolster and Flash fan.
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
October 10 2009 06:22 GMT
#733
HAHA SPEED UP OBSERVERS WIN
dats racist
Slow Motion
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6960 Posts
October 10 2009 06:22 GMT
#734
finally saved his observer
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
October 10 2009 06:22 GMT
#735
LOL He must've been so pissed off

"WTF IM UPGRADING SPEED FUCKING SCOURGES"
dats racist
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
October 10 2009 06:23 GMT
#736
Speed so good, always knew it.
La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
October 10 2009 06:23 GMT
#737
wow, Violet might win a pvz : O
brood war for life, brood war forever
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
October 10 2009 06:23 GMT
#738
2 OBS BUILD WASNT THAT BAD AFTER ALL
La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
October 10 2009 06:23 GMT
#739
On October 10 2009 15:20 Itachii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 15:18 Nevuk wrote:
On October 10 2009 15:17 jalstar wrote:
+1 speedlot push: the new Bisu build

It's not new, it's just not been necessary, was first used last year sometime.

you meant this?it needs 2 archons :S
+ Show Spoiler +


The Build -

* Simply, after double Nex, Get an archive and 4 gates. After 2 archons - produce speed+1 zealots and pressure/attack the zerg.
* 7.5 Pylon, 11 Forge, 13 Cannon (x2), 15 pylon. 18 Nexus+Gate => Main Gas, Core, front gas, Stargate, Citadel, Templar+3 gate. +1, 4 HT, Speed up, Make speed zealots... at around 8:30, attack.
* The 4 gate 2 archon build is used to fight Zerg Neo-Sauron builds.
(9 pool, 6 ling, front hatch, 3rd base hatch, gas, lair, lingspeed, spire/scourge, +2 hatch - Den+Chamber. )
* Once again, I re-iterate, this build is to fight Neo-Sauron Zergs.
* If the zerg shows switch up, there must be adjustments made, and the following will be an explanation on how to do so.

1 - The Double Nexus -

*The Build Order - 7.5 Pylon, 11 Forge, 13 Cannon (x2), 15 pylon. 18 Nexus
*Key Points
- When pool is half done, the forge must be coming up.
- Even if the forge and pool finish at the same time, ling make+travel time = finished cannons.
- Minor variations dependant on map.
- If you are given a little freedom due to the pool being late, you can build a nexus and if still given further freedom by opposition, build a gate!
- If the zerg aggresively 3 hatch 0 pools, do a Nexus -no forge 2 gate. While harassing with zealots, producing probes and teching are both possible. However, the zerg, due to making zerglings+sunkens will not be able to do anything else.
- It is because of this 9 pool is the standard. To stop the 9 pool, the basic double nex build is as described above and admittedly slower.

* The Defence -
- 2-4 zerglings = 1 photon. More lings - 2 photon. If speed up or around 12 lings, 3 photon.
- In most ling heavy scenarios, 3 is plenty.
- More importantly is the sim city + Probe/Zealot path blocking to not even let the lings onto the cannons in the first place.
- Specifically, Gate on top, Forge on bottom = No ling run by. This is an important feature a toss should utilize.
- If the zerg does speed up or 8+ lings, block/narrow the entrance with probes.
- Trying to conserve 2-4 more probes will end the game. The zerg is obviously poor so there is no need to feel like you must have 2-4 extra probes working for your econ.
- As money allows, replace the probes with 1-2 zealots from the gates.

*The Scouting -
- Is it 12 hatch or 9 pool, pool timing is the most important thing here.
- then, are lings making or drones? Then 'What is the hatch count and gas timing.
- Most zergs put up the hatches they want (3/4) before they make the gas.
- By this assumption, we can usually get a feel for if the zerg has taken his 2nd natural or not.
- Depending on gas timing, Hydra, Muta, Lurker can be guessed.
- If you were breached by the all in, watch the replay with an emphasis on the zergs gas timing/usage.
- Checking for Chogoling speed up is obv important.
- If the gas has been up for awhile but there is no lair in sight, high probability of a chogoling break.
- If the scouting probe is caught and the zerg is containing outside movement from the toss's nat and even if scouting seems hard, you can't be still.
- It is good to fake probe movements in and out of the base to check for chogospeed.
- If no speed up, fake probe movement (Usually towards their choke ol) and then FAKE JUKE TIKI BARBER that shit to the other side.
- After the zergs natural expo, if the 3rd hatch is towards the main, be very cautious.

2 - The Core Timing -

* Build order - (After Gate) - Core, Nat Gas, Stargate, Citadel.
- Before the core is complete, the nat gas must be put up to prevent gas shortage.
- A goon is always a nice choice to prevent more ol scouting.
- Because the timing between citadel and robo branches are so similar, it is often a good idea to construct them around the nat by habit. Also, robos are better constructed there anyways in case of defence.
- If the Zerg's tech is late (4 Hatch Gas), corsairs are not even needed. [This isn't mentioned but I assume no SG at all]

* The Defence -
- If unsure of the zergs exact intentions, another photon up front for 3 isn't a bad choice.
- Pure Hydra Break - Cancel all probes and cannon like no tomorrow. Magu Magu Photon Photon.
- If hydras are trying to fast break the gate, bring a probe up to the gate and get ready to re-construct the gate to buy extra time is a good option.
- If the Zorg went fast 2 hatch gas and the tech is SUPA FAST~ at about SG completion time, put 1-2 photon at the main.

* The Scouting -
- The Sair is better off looking at zerg intentions rather than overlord hunting.
- Just because scourge are out, don't keep the sair in your main. Avoid the scourges and looking at the zerg is very beneficial
- Post 3-hatch, if the 4 and 5 hatchery do not pop up, mutalisks all-in are much more likely.
- If hatcheries 4 and 5 are up, the zerg has less than 200 minerals. He can't make mutas!
- It is important to discover the natural gas status also. If the gas is already up, a gas heavy muta or lurker attack will be coming.

*OMG! It's not a spire!
- If it's not spire, it's ling hydra lurker.
- Since the sair neutralizing scourges are not there, Sair-reaver is a good choice. If the Citadel is already up, Sair-DT is a good choice.
- It is still possible to ignore it all and go 4gate 2 archon.

3 -Two Archons and +1 Spd Zealots -

*Build Order - (After Citadel) - +1 attack, Templar Archives, 3 gateways, 2 archons, Speed up, 4 gateway zealot pump.
- The above build is the standard but depending on the zorgs status, what comes first does differs.
- Afterwards, product sufficient zealchon from gates and put down a pylong at the 2nd natural to PREPAREeeee FORrrrrrr EXPANSION~~~.

*Fast Mutal Defence.
- Even if you scout that it's not muta, 2 cannons in your main is standard. (It is encouraged that you have a bountiful and abundant 3 flower harvest)
- As aforementioned, if the nat gas is made but the 4/5th hatcheries are missing, it is wise to assume mutalisks.
- Even with an archon, without cannons/sair fast power mutals will shake you up. 3-4 Cannons at main, 2-3 sairs plz. Plz plz.
- Most Zorgs that go mutal defend with many sunkenlisks. If the sunken count looks low, poking him with your 2 archon superlot and sairs is recommended. (While expanding).
- If this isn't the case, prepare your 2nd expo! The mutals will aggravatingly rape your macro polo probe, and this is another reason many sairs are needed. Also, if you feel your probe micro sux and the mutas will rape it, going ahead and setting a probe there before hand to preserve your original intended expo timing isn't bad.

* Fast Lurkers
- Similar to mutals, if the nat gas is fast and the hydra den is fast, faster lurkers will be looking to contain you.
- Instead of Archons or Speed Up, adding only 2-3 gates + robotics + Goon range + Templar&Obs is recommended.
- Make 1-2 DTs and hide them somewhere. Later, when he is harassing your expos, your harass him back ninja style.
- When breaking the lurker contain, take a shuttle full of 4 zealots and harass the back and then attempting to break the lurker is much easier street.
- If your 1-2 DT's made it out, harass with these dt's now.
- When breaking the contain, having 1 archon is really nice. It serves as a good lead. Because the hydras and lings come towards the archon, the rear templars can get easy storms.

* Scourge, Hydra, Then Lurker
- Making scourges to pressure the corsair while making hydras, then follwing up with lurkers is the standard.
- Until the Zealots are Archons are destroyed, the Protoss will have the center.
- At this moment, you have to make your 2nd natural, but speed up ling movement to halt this will be seen.
- In this case, instead of moving all your zealots out, send a few to confront the zerglings and to hold the territory.
- Keep pumping zealots while reseraching Storm. Prepare HT while raising a robo and get observers.
- As you pump templar, your gas will deplete and minerals will be left over. This is when you increase gateways.

4. - The Second Half Charge -

* Overcoming The Lair Timing
- Massing Dragoons and Templar while destroying the zerg's lair units and pushing the nat is the ultimate goal of this strat.
- It is recommended to be on a wider and more open map where dragoons can fight to their full potential, like Tau Cross.
- If the zerg survives and gets to hive, adrenal+swarm makes goons useless and the game will become increasingly difficult

*Split Map Fights ("Macro Wars")
- The main way to win is to follow the zerg step in step for expo's while constructing a hanbang.
- Zealots - Archons - Templar will be the base units and later the reaver must be incorporated.
- Putting a robo (or two) at your expos will help fight defiler and zergling terrorism!!!!
- If you control the center and carelessly expand, cracklings will shake you up and ruin your pretty Nexus in an instant.
- In preparation for doom drops on the main, many photons (You will have money left, 5, 7, 10, flower fields!) are recommended. While Dark Swarm nullifies these, they buy precious time. And you must quickly defend with speed up shuttle/reavers.
- Be careful and please take good care of your corsairs. If you can gather it up, mass corsairs is very powerful, but because of the high gas cost, your army can become lacking.
- Until you are sure of victory, do not go into a zerg's defensive line. Especially don't smash into a sunken line. Concentrate on gathering an archon and reaver count, stop or slow down zerg expo attempts, and be sure to keep your econ safe of any threats.
- Got money left over? Photon Photon Photon Gate Gate Gate.
.

No. It's an entirely different build that only uses 2 gateways.
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
October 10 2009 06:24 GMT
#740
hahaha violet is mass producing observers
dats racist
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