Are Tornado and moonglaive zvz maps like God's Garden? I am all for Hyuk bonjwa, but even with Best out, you think they will send out Canata....Are Tornado and moonglaive zvz maps like God's Garden? I am all for Hyuk bonjwa, but even with Best out, you think they will send out Canata....
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
He also just lost to him in evals recently. I think it's really just going to depend on the maps. HBR is a terrible map.
If free can pull an upset over Fantasy and Zero and Kwanro wins their zvz (Kwanro is kinda bound to win it at the moment if he is as good as he was in the msl finals).
On October 08 2009 15:40 Iplaythings wrote: Please Wongjin, rape SKT1!
If free can pull an upset over Fantasy and Zero and Kwanro wins their zvz (Kwanro is kinda bound to win it at the moment if he is as good as he was in the msl finals).
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
Uh Bisu also consistently loses vs Zero, hes like 1-4....but thanks for helping my point?
Free beating fantasy isnt much of an upset either, Im not sure I remember the map stats for match point, so depending on the balance i suppose it could be considered a minor upset.
Bisu/Fantasy's games are easy calls (though there's always the chance of one or the other slipping up), and I'd bet on a Hyuk that's won 21 of his last 25 games over Kwanro who just switched teams and is probably still adjusting to Woongjin's practice schedule.
People are looking too much into Best's non-appearance. The maps suck for protoss, and T1 I'm sure would like to see more of their zergs at the beginning of the season. It makes sense for him to sit.
Predicting
Bisu Kwanro Fantasy Zero Zero > Bisu or Fantasy > Zero in Ace match.
On October 08 2009 18:24 raga4ka wrote: Actually Kwanro is just what the stars need to start performing with the top teams again . I wouldn't be surprised if they beat SKT here .
Don´t think so. SKT1 is most likely to win, but at least now, Stars have at least a chance for an upset.
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
Consistency > one-game fiasco imo.
On October 08 2009 14:53 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:52 fanatacist wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
Uh Bisu also consistently loses vs Zero, hes like 1-4....but thanks for helping my point?
Free beating fantasy isnt much of an upset either, Im not sure I remember the map stats for match point, so depending on the balance i suppose it could be considered a minor upset.
Uh Bisu is also the best Protoss in the world and Zero is the second... wait no, third.... wait no, fourth... maybe... best Zerg. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Bisu is a more consistent player. Trying to bend my words to your argument, nice try.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world. Free is the second... wait no, third... wait no, fourth... maybe... best at PvT. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Fantasy is a more consistent player.
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
Consistency > one-game fiasco imo.
On October 08 2009 14:53 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:52 fanatacist wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
Uh Bisu also consistently loses vs Zero, hes like 1-4....but thanks for helping my point?
Free beating fantasy isnt much of an upset either, Im not sure I remember the map stats for match point, so depending on the balance i suppose it could be considered a minor upset.
Uh Bisu is also the best Protoss in the world and Zero is the second... wait no, third.... wait no, fourth... maybe... best Zerg. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Bisu is a more consistent player. Trying to bend my words to your argument, nice try.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world. Free is the second... wait no, third... wait no, fourth... maybe... best at PvT. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Fantasy is a more consistent player.
Check out Fantasy's recent games vs P, he has been pretty much raped by Dinotoss lately, and he just lost to Stats in the mst... And Fantasy is 3-7 in his last games against P... I think it could be safe to say that the OSL sent him to a slump... again.
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
Consistency > one-game fiasco imo.
On October 08 2009 14:53 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:52 fanatacist wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
Uh Bisu also consistently loses vs Zero, hes like 1-4....but thanks for helping my point?
Free beating fantasy isnt much of an upset either, Im not sure I remember the map stats for match point, so depending on the balance i suppose it could be considered a minor upset.
Uh Bisu is also the best Protoss in the world and Zero is the second... wait no, third.... wait no, fourth... maybe... best Zerg. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Bisu is a more consistent player. Trying to bend my words to your argument, nice try.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world. Free is the second... wait no, third... wait no, fourth... maybe... best at PvT. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Fantasy is a more consistent player.
Check out Fantasy's recent games vs P, he has been pretty much raped by Dinotoss lately, and he just lost to Stats in the mst... And Fantasy is 3-7 in his last games against P... I think it could be safe to say that the OSL sent him to a slump... again.
Stats is really good PvT and is undefeated (7-0) PvT on that map. I think it would have been an upset if Fantasy won that match, honestly.
Probably gonna come down to Bisu v. Zero in ace, it'll be great to see Bisu win some pride for PvZ before Protosses get crushed for the rest of the season.
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
Consistency > one-game fiasco imo.
On October 08 2009 14:53 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:52 fanatacist wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
Uh Bisu also consistently loses vs Zero, hes like 1-4....but thanks for helping my point?
Free beating fantasy isnt much of an upset either, Im not sure I remember the map stats for match point, so depending on the balance i suppose it could be considered a minor upset.
Uh Bisu is also the best Protoss in the world and Zero is the second... wait no, third.... wait no, fourth... maybe... best Zerg. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Bisu is a more consistent player. Trying to bend my words to your argument, nice try.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world. Free is the second... wait no, third... wait no, fourth... maybe... best at PvT. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Fantasy is a more consistent player.
Check out Fantasy's recent games vs P, he has been pretty much raped by Dinotoss lately, and he just lost to Stats in the mst... And Fantasy is 3-7 in his last games against P... I think it could be safe to say that the OSL sent him to a slump... again.
I would put more weight to your statement if Stork's PvT wasn't so good and consistent throughout his career (minus the slump spans here and there). Stats is also a good PvT player as someone else has mentioned.
Whether or not he is slumping only time will tell, but I think judging that based on the past 10 games is foolhardy at this point.
On October 08 2009 23:29 Slow Motion wrote: Probably gonna come down to Bisu v. Zero in ace, it'll be great to see Bisu win some pride for PvZ before Protosses get crushed for the rest of the season.
This would be great. And unfortunately I think you are right about the upcoming season. We need another revolution, this time though I think it would(should?) be a step to more economically conservative, micro and tech-oriented timing builds.
oh the OP looks damn sweet! One single vote for no, not really at the are you hyped poll ;p if Hyuk actually ain't an SKT failzerg anymore then SKT is gonna take this, otherwise not!
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
Consistency > one-game fiasco imo.
On October 08 2009 14:53 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:52 fanatacist wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
Uh Bisu also consistently loses vs Zero, hes like 1-4....but thanks for helping my point?
Free beating fantasy isnt much of an upset either, Im not sure I remember the map stats for match point, so depending on the balance i suppose it could be considered a minor upset.
Uh Bisu is also the best Protoss in the world and Zero is the second... wait no, third.... wait no, fourth... maybe... best Zerg. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Bisu is a more consistent player. Trying to bend my words to your argument, nice try.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world. Free is the second... wait no, third... wait no, fourth... maybe... best at PvT. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Fantasy is a more consistent player.
Check out Fantasy's recent games vs P, he has been pretty much raped by Dinotoss lately, and he just lost to Stats in the mst... And Fantasy is 3-7 in his last games against P... I think it could be safe to say that the OSL sent him to a slump... again.
I would put more weight to your statement if Stork's PvT wasn't so good and consistent throughout his career (minus the slump spans here and there). Stats is also a good PvT player as someone else has mentioned.
Whether or not he is slumping only time will tell, but I think judging that based on the past 10 games is foolhardy at this point.
True, but stats is still a noname at some point, but Fantasy dropped a game to Shuttle in the UPC (again good PvT, Ì know) but even though shuttle, stats and stork all has a S starting names and good PvT, Fantasy was said to have S class TvP, it just seems weird that he has lost so much considering it to be his strongest MU.
On October 08 2009 23:53 Iplaythings wrote: True, but stats is still a noname at some point, but Fantasy dropped a game to Shuttle in the UPC (again good PvT, Ì know) but even though shuttle, stats and stork all has a S starting names and good PvT, Fantasy was said to have S class TvP, it just seems weird that he has lost so much considering it to be his strongest MU.
Did you really just use a showmatch as an example against Fantasy?
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
Consistency > one-game fiasco imo.
On October 08 2009 14:53 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:52 fanatacist wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
Uh Bisu also consistently loses vs Zero, hes like 1-4....but thanks for helping my point?
Free beating fantasy isnt much of an upset either, Im not sure I remember the map stats for match point, so depending on the balance i suppose it could be considered a minor upset.
Uh Bisu is also the best Protoss in the world and Zero is the second... wait no, third.... wait no, fourth... maybe... best Zerg. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Bisu is a more consistent player. Trying to bend my words to your argument, nice try.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world. Free is the second... wait no, third... wait no, fourth... maybe... best at PvT. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Fantasy is a more consistent player.
Check out Fantasy's recent games vs P, he has been pretty much raped by Dinotoss lately, and he just lost to Stats in the mst... And Fantasy is 3-7 in his last games against P... I think it could be safe to say that the OSL sent him to a slump... again.
I would put more weight to your statement if Stork's PvT wasn't so good and consistent throughout his career (minus the slump spans here and there). Stats is also a good PvT player as someone else has mentioned.
Whether or not he is slumping only time will tell, but I think judging that based on the past 10 games is foolhardy at this point.
True, but stats is still a noname at some point, but Fantasy dropped a game to Shuttle in the UPC (again good PvT, Ì know) but even though shuttle, stats and stork all has a S starting names and good PvT, Fantasy was said to have S class TvP, it just seems weird that he has lost so much considering it to be his strongest MU.
This is more indicative of the current state of StarCraft than the inability of any player, IMO. S-class is that much closer to A-class, A-class closer to-B class, so on and so forth. Many people are still thinking in terms of Oov/Nada/Savior domination when they think of S-class - the fact is that S-class, at least to me, means that they are the overall best in the scene at that MU. For example, even though Fantasy lost those games (and like you said they are against relatively solid PvT players), he is still the best at TvP, with Flash being either a close second or better (you can make arguments for either). Both of them have S-class TvP, but they can still lose games. This is pretty much the reason why we don't have a bonjwa now.
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
Consistency > one-game fiasco imo.
On October 08 2009 14:53 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:52 fanatacist wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
Uh Bisu also consistently loses vs Zero, hes like 1-4....but thanks for helping my point?
Free beating fantasy isnt much of an upset either, Im not sure I remember the map stats for match point, so depending on the balance i suppose it could be considered a minor upset.
Uh Bisu is also the best Protoss in the world and Zero is the second... wait no, third.... wait no, fourth... maybe... best Zerg. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Bisu is a more consistent player. Trying to bend my words to your argument, nice try.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world. Free is the second... wait no, third... wait no, fourth... maybe... best at PvT. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Fantasy is a more consistent player.
Check out Fantasy's recent games vs P, he has been pretty much raped by Dinotoss lately, and he just lost to Stats in the mst... And Fantasy is 3-7 in his last games against P... I think it could be safe to say that the OSL sent him to a slump... again.
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
Consistency > one-game fiasco imo.
On October 08 2009 14:53 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:52 fanatacist wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
Uh Bisu also consistently loses vs Zero, hes like 1-4....but thanks for helping my point?
Free beating fantasy isnt much of an upset either, Im not sure I remember the map stats for match point, so depending on the balance i suppose it could be considered a minor upset.
Uh Bisu is also the best Protoss in the world and Zero is the second... wait no, third.... wait no, fourth... maybe... best Zerg. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Bisu is a more consistent player. Trying to bend my words to your argument, nice try.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world. Free is the second... wait no, third... wait no, fourth... maybe... best at PvT. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Fantasy is a more consistent player.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world? Sure, whatever you say... I'd pick Flash over him any day of the week.
Also, you can't really argue like that about Bisu vs Zero. It's about who's most likely to win when playing against each other, not about who's the best player of their respective races. I guess Bisu might be the favorite, still, although it wouldn't surprise me if Zero beat him with some queens.
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
Consistency > one-game fiasco imo.
On October 08 2009 14:53 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:52 fanatacist wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
Uh Bisu also consistently loses vs Zero, hes like 1-4....but thanks for helping my point?
Free beating fantasy isnt much of an upset either, Im not sure I remember the map stats for match point, so depending on the balance i suppose it could be considered a minor upset.
Uh Bisu is also the best Protoss in the world and Zero is the second... wait no, third.... wait no, fourth... maybe... best Zerg. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Bisu is a more consistent player. Trying to bend my words to your argument, nice try.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world. Free is the second... wait no, third... wait no, fourth... maybe... best at PvT. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Fantasy is a more consistent player.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world? Sure, whatever you say... I'd pick Flash over him any day of the week.
Also, you can't really argue like that about Bisu vs Zero. It's about who's most likely to win when playing against each other, not about who's the best player of their respective races. I guess Bisu might be the favorite, still, although it wouldn't surprise me if Zero beat him with some queens.
Before jumping on me, read my later posts (about the Flash vs. Fantasy thing).
What you say is true in the absolute sense, but Bisu's PvZ is the best in the world as well. Sure, this could mean nothing if the best PvZ in the world is worse than the top 3 ZvP players in the world, but I don't think that's the case. I agree with you - I wouldn't be surprised if ZerO won, but I think Bisu is still the favorite. Bisu is still more consistent, more reputed (for good reason), and more experienced.
On October 09 2009 03:11 iloahz wrote: Hyuk is the clear favourite over Kwanro, and why is everyone predicting the other way around...
I think that even though it seems that Hyuk has been performing better recently, Kwanro was in the MSL finals (although he lost 3-1 to Calm in ZvZ, that is still more than anything Hyuk has accomplished in individual leagues), and is also more experienced. I think Kwanro's style of play in general makes his ZvZ weaker than his other MUs, but that is an admittedly subjective judgment. I don't think there is a clear favorite, no matter how you spin it. Hope for a good match n_n
On October 08 2009 23:53 Iplaythings wrote: True, but stats is still a noname at some point, but Fantasy dropped a game to Shuttle in the UPC (again good PvT, Ì know) but even though shuttle, stats and stork all has a S starting names and good PvT, Fantasy was said to have S class TvP, it just seems weird that he has lost so much considering it to be his strongest MU.
Did you really just use a showmatch as an example against Fantasy?
On October 08 2009 23:53 Iplaythings wrote: True, but stats is still a noname at some point, but Fantasy dropped a game to Shuttle in the UPC (again good PvT, Ì know) but even though shuttle, stats and stork all has a S starting names and good PvT, Fantasy was said to have S class TvP, it just seems weird that he has lost so much considering it to be his strongest MU.
Did you really just use a showmatch as an example against Fantasy?
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
Consistency > one-game fiasco imo.
On October 08 2009 14:53 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:52 fanatacist wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
Uh Bisu also consistently loses vs Zero, hes like 1-4....but thanks for helping my point?
Free beating fantasy isnt much of an upset either, Im not sure I remember the map stats for match point, so depending on the balance i suppose it could be considered a minor upset.
Uh Bisu is also the best Protoss in the world and Zero is the second... wait no, third.... wait no, fourth... maybe... best Zerg. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Bisu is a more consistent player. Trying to bend my words to your argument, nice try.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world. Free is the second... wait no, third... wait no, fourth... maybe... best at PvT. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Fantasy is a more consistent player.
How is that relevant to picking Bisu over Zero, when RECENTLY hes been dominated by zero, and was absolutely torn apart on the same map. Obviously Bisu can win, but Zero is the favorite and you say Bisu is the best protoss in the world, but thats meaningless because right now zero is one of the best ZvPers.
Fantasy best tvp in the world meh, Ive stuck by Flash being the best at every MU, and free being fourth or third best at TvP is nice, but his PvT is more than good enough to beat fantasy, regardless of Stork and Jangbi being better historic PvTers. That being said my point was Free beating Fantasy isnt an upset at all. Fantasy would only be a slight favorite before considering the map balance.
Like many ppl predicted, Bisu < Fighting Spirit > PianO Hyuk < Tornado > Kwanro fantasy < Match Point > free[gm] Thezerg < Moon Glaive > ZerO Bisu < Heartbreak Ridge > Kwanro
There's no way Woonjin throws Kwanro vs Bisu in an Ace match, ZerO has been beating the hell out of Bisu for a while now and Fantasy is looking real shaky vs. zerg. Almost sure to see ZerO sent out here so SKT might send Hyuk.
On October 08 2009 14:52 mog87 wrote: Ill pick woonjin and I def think you have to pick zero over bisu if it goes to ace on HBR..REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME?!???
Consistency > one-game fiasco imo.
On October 08 2009 14:53 Kyuukyuu wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:52 fanatacist wrote:
On October 08 2009 14:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: What a way to kick off the season! Also, is Best literally B-teamed? If so, source? Also, just unbanned in time for the Starcraft to start.
No but his absence here is one indicator, although like someone else has mentioned it could also be the necessity of mirror Z's on certain maps. Another indicator is his loss in MSL offlines. A third is his presence with the B-teamers in the map tests. I have no actual source, but if he isn't there yet I predict he soon will be (unless of course he cleans his act up, but that'd be redundant to say).
Doesn't Best always lose in MSL offlines?
If that's true then that's pretty pathetic, if his competition was as light as it was this time around.
Uh Bisu also consistently loses vs Zero, hes like 1-4....but thanks for helping my point?
Free beating fantasy isnt much of an upset either, Im not sure I remember the map stats for match point, so depending on the balance i suppose it could be considered a minor upset.
Uh Bisu is also the best Protoss in the world and Zero is the second... wait no, third.... wait no, fourth... maybe... best Zerg. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Bisu is a more consistent player. Trying to bend my words to your argument, nice try.
Fantasy has the best TvP in the world. Free is the second... wait no, third... wait no, fourth... maybe... best at PvT. Considering their careers, relative win rates, etc. Fantasy is a more consistent player.
How is that relevant to picking Bisu over Zero, when RECENTLY hes been dominated by zero, and was absolutely torn apart on the same map. Obviously Bisu can win, but Zero is the favorite and you say Bisu is the best protoss in the world, but thats meaningless because right now zero is one of the best ZvPers.
Fantasy best tvp in the world meh, Ive stuck by Flash being the best at every MU, and free being fourth or third best at TvP is nice, but his PvT is more than good enough to beat fantasy, regardless of Stork and Jangbi being better historic PvTers. That being said my point was Free beating Fantasy isnt an upset at all. Fantasy would only be a slight favorite before considering the map balance.
I doubt Best is a b-teamer, he's one of SKT's top 4 (seriously, Thezerg? they kid no one). Since the new maps are slanted Z>T>P or T>Z>P according to evaluations, and that means all teams are playing with double Zerg except two which are playing double terran, and Best's vZ is notoriously bad... and ZerO's vP is great while his vZ is mediocre at best.
Really psyched out about fantasy vs. free, as fantasy's play is nearly as sexy as free's late-game vT.
Why you ask? Easy: * Bisu is Bisu, no Question there. * Hey Kwanro was in MSL Finals ;-) (honestly its vs SKT Failzergs) * free should watch the stork replays. free will "stork" fantasy! * SKT Failzerg
Game 1: Bisu has this. I remember when PianO was considered to be the one that would support free to take Stars to the next level but he is just a mediocre terran.
Game 2: I always thought one of Hyuk's biggest problems was self-confidence, and I believe he has gained a lot of it lately. Adding that to the possible unstability that Kwanro's recent transfer to a new team and environment could cause, I'd say this is almost a coin toss with Hyuk having a slight edge.
Game 3: free didn't seemed to sturggle a little in the final stretches of last season, and I don't think merely battle skills will be enough to take Fantasy down.
(Game 4): If Kwanro happens to defeat Hyuk, it will go to the ace game. Both players struggled their ZvZ last season, but ZerO struggled against oponents like JD, Calm and a on-fire Kwanro, while TheZerg got beat down by not so great zergs.
(Ace): I think Stars will send out free (they could send any of their two star zergs, but both Fantasy and Bisu are very strong against z), and if SKT1 realizes that, Bisu should be the logical option. In that case, I think Bisu will take home their first proleague win this season.
On October 09 2009 19:54 RamenStyle wrote: (P)Bisu < Fighting Spirit > (T)PianO (Z)Hyuk < Tornado > (Z)Kwanro (T)fantasy < Match Point > (P)free[gm] (Z)Thezerg < Moon Glaive > (Z)ZerO
Game 1: Bisu has this. I remember when PianO was considered to be the one that would support free to take Stars to the next level but he is just a mediocre terran.
Game 2: I always thought one of Hyuk's biggest problems was self-confidence, and I believe he has gained a lot of it lately. Adding that to the possible unstability that Kwanro's recent transfer to a new team and environment could cause, I'd say this is almost a coin toss with Hyuk having a slight edge.
Game 3: free didn't seemed to sturggle a little in the final stretches of last season, and I don't think merely battle skills will be enough to take Fantasy down.
(Game 4): If Kwanro happens to defeat Hyuk, it will go to the ace game. Both players struggled their ZvZ last season, but ZerO struggled against oponents like JD, Calm and a on-fire Kwanro, while TheZerg got beat down by not so great zergs.
(Ace): I think Stars will send out free (they could send any of their two star zergs, but both Fantasy and Bisu are very strong against z), and if SKT1 realizes that, Bisu should be the logical option. In that case, I think Bisu will take home their first proleague win this season.
hshjshjajshahjas Hes 1-4 vs ZERO!!!!! I also dont know how you give hyuk a slight edge over kwanro even with a transfer. I can respect your opinion on free vs fantasy, but personally I think its a toss up,but hard to say as its a new map.
Ace match you gotta favor Zero over Bisu, Free is also a decent choice but Free often loses to Bisu so not really. I mean if you arent a huge t1 fan you have to put Zero over Bisu on HBR, or you could be a funny one like an earlier poster and predict kwanro goes out for Bisu, thus justifying bisu winning, but why send kwanro? Zero vs Fantasy is also probably, but Zero's ZvT has been on point and zero is very good at defending early rushes from terran as well dealing with mech, so I think hed take fantasy. A double mindgame Free vs Fantasy is also possible for ACE. The logic being that skt1 thinks woonjin will send zero, and thus send fantasy, and woonjin may anticipate and send free(maybe even guemchi?heh), which would be good considering the map, as long as free doesnt 12 nex and get depot blocked and ravaged like vs reality in osl prelim finals.
On October 09 2009 22:43 n.DieJokes wrote: Bisu < Fighting Spirit > PianO Hyuk < Tornado > Kwanro fantasy < Match Point > free[gm] Thezerg < Moon Glaive > ZerO Rape incoming
IMO there's no way sending free out for ace is a good idea. He's auto loss against Bisu, and at most on even par (though probably weaker) against Fantasy. And SKT learned their lesson a while ago about not sending Bisu out for ace, so...
That's how I see this going down as well, as long as Kwanro wins his match. Otherwise we'll probably lose, 3-0.
In the past, teams have played exceptionally well when they get a new player (such as Gorush to Ace, last year). Something about everyone having something to prove to each other again.
It blows my mind that noone has mentioned Hyuk as a possible ace.
Just think about it theres like a 80% chance zero will be sent out and his weakest mu is his vZ and even if free goes Hyuk got a decent chance to take him out.
I guess I'll probably watch KT vs estro for Game 1 (it'll be a closer match, Bisu should just roll over Piano), switch between both games for Game 2, watch SKT1 vs Stars for Game 3 (Flash vs Really isn't a game, it's a mauling), and then I don't know.
Game 2 and Game 4 over here might end really quickly since they're ZvZs though, who knows.
I would expect the Skt1 games to be significantly shorter, the skill differences between the players are much greater and Bisu is prone to proxies pvt, in addition to 2 zvz.
On October 09 2009 22:43 n.DieJokes wrote: Bisu < Fighting Spirit > PianO Hyuk < Tornado > Kwanro fantasy < Match Point > free[gm] Thezerg < Moon Glaive > ZerO Rape incoming
Losing 4-0 in a BO5 is a pretty bad rape yes.
I picked my favorite to win in each match; is their some kind of taboo against treating each match as independent of the match's preceeding it?
On October 09 2009 22:43 n.DieJokes wrote: Bisu < Fighting Spirit > PianO Hyuk < Tornado > Kwanro fantasy < Match Point > free[gm] Thezerg < Moon Glaive > ZerO Rape incoming
Losing 4-0 in a BO5 is a pretty bad rape yes.
I picked my favorite to win in each match; is their some kind of taboo against treating each match as independent of the match's preceeding it?
Not that I'm aware of but most try to predict what's going to happen and your prediction cannot come true. I meant nothing by it.
On October 10 2009 03:56 Kreedit wrote: It blows my mind that noone has mentioned Hyuk as a possible ace.
Just think about it theres like a 80% chance zero will be sent out and his weakest mu is his vZ and even if free goes Hyuk got a decent chance to take him out.
So yeah you heard it here first HYUK FOR ACE!!!
Don't think they'd send out zero when he isn't that good atm due to his awesome inconsistency, Kwanro has a better chance of being sent out if free isn't sent out for ace.
On October 10 2009 03:56 Kreedit wrote: It blows my mind that noone has mentioned Hyuk as a possible ace.
Just think about it theres like a 80% chance zero will be sent out and his weakest mu is his vZ and even if free goes Hyuk got a decent chance to take him out.
So yeah you heard it here first HYUK FOR ACE!!!
Don't think they'd send out zero when he isn't that good atm due to his awesome inconsistency, Kwanro has a better chance of being sent out if free isn't sent out for ace.
I think Zero's traded in his inconsistency for godawful ZvZ. He has a good chance of showing up for ace.
On October 10 2009 03:56 Kreedit wrote: It blows my mind that noone has mentioned Hyuk as a possible ace.
Just think about it theres like a 80% chance zero will be sent out and his weakest mu is his vZ and even if free goes Hyuk got a decent chance to take him out.
So yeah you heard it here first HYUK FOR ACE!!!
Don't think they'd send out zero when he isn't that good atm due to his awesome inconsistency, Kwanro has a better chance of being sent out if free isn't sent out for ace.
I think Zero's traded in his inconsistency for godawful ZvZ. He has a good chance of showing up for ace.
Maybe, imo Kwanro has a bit better chance of showing up for ace.
On October 08 2009 17:59 BookTwo wrote: best is a b teamer? When did this happen?
Ever since he got steamrolled by July in some OSL finals, a long time ago.
Not exactly a b-teamer, but he hasn't been Power-Rank worthy for many, many months.
Not CBNC-worthy, either.
Best is not a B-teamer, he's alternating/competing with Canata and Hyuk for the fourth spot since Bisu, fantasy, and thezerg will play almost every game.
On October 08 2009 17:59 BookTwo wrote: best is a b teamer? When did this happen?
Ever since he got steamrolled by July in some OSL finals, a long time ago.
Not exactly a b-teamer, but he hasn't been Power-Rank worthy for many, many months.
Not CBNC-worthy, either.
We all know Best's PvZ is terribad but,
On October 09 2009 19:02 pangshai wrote: With head coach Park Yong Wook saying that he will continue to rely on the 'Do-Taek-Myung' trio (BeSt, Bisu, fantasy).
If Couch Wook rely's on Best's play, then he isn't even close to B team material imo.
I fully believe that Stars will send out Zero knowing how...undependable SKT zergs are, but SKT will reverse mind game them and send out Hyuk, whom will procede to own Zero, since Hyuk has sworn an oath to win every game from now on.
On October 09 2009 19:02 pangshai wrote: With head coach Park Yong Wook saying that he will continue to rely on the 'Do-Taek-Myung' trio (BeSt, Bisu, fantasy).
If Couch Wook rely's on Best's play, then he isn't even close to B team material imo.
Coach Park knows Best's potential is high. I think Best will do much better this season.
On October 10 2009 03:56 Kreedit wrote: It blows my mind that noone has mentioned Hyuk as a possible ace.
Just think about it theres like a 80% chance zero will be sent out and his weakest mu is his vZ and even if free goes Hyuk got a decent chance to take him out.
So yeah you heard it here first HYUK FOR ACE!!!
They used this logic once a year ago... remember how that went?
I wish I can stream but.... I quit that business for a while now and now that I'm behind the technological advances of TL, it'll take a while to adapt a way I can start my streaming process again......
That being said, go SKT1!!!!!!!!! *extreme rabid fanboyism*
eg. thanking sponsers interviewing people i got a korean friend to make me an account =-)
also Canata read something about playing fair and not cheating
yeah the stream stops for about 10 seconds every minute or so :C
oh well at least its not me, like i thought
If you sign up it doesn't lag.
I click on the register button but i get a window with what it seems to be an erorr t_t
The sign up instructions on the front page guided me. The pop ups are confirmation boxes for the most part that say "Validation Successful" or "An email has been sent".
On October 10 2009 12:47 QibingZero wrote: Calling ZerO's ZvZ bad: more evidence that many people on TL only look at the stats on players' TLPD pages to form arguments.
ZerO's ZvZ is not bad, but at this match-up he is no JD, Effort, Calm or Kwanro. Hell, I like Great's ZvZ more, Hyuk when in top form (when he manages not to blunder), and Hero too. ZerO is a great player, but nothing spectacular at ZvZ. Of course, he probably has the most dangerous vP out there.
On October 10 2009 12:47 QibingZero wrote: Calling ZerO's ZvZ bad: more evidence that many people on TL only look at the stats on players' TLPD pages to form arguments.
ZerO's ZvZ is not bad, but at this match-up he is no JD, Effort, Calm or Kwanro. Hell, I like Great's ZvZ more, Hyuk when in top form (when he manages not to blunder), and Hero too. ZerO is a great player, but nothing spectacular at ZvZ. Of course, he probably has the most dangerous vP out there.
All the livestreamers probably lost interest during off-season, there will definitely be more within the week. The ones i recall : Solinren is still streaming atm Pholon haven't heard from since TL Arena Starcraftwonkman - no clue Konadora - don't think he streams anymore?
On October 10 2009 13:07 Nevuk wrote: I hate justin.tv streams, but only because they don't work very well most of the time. Thanks for the link, maybe it's gotten better since yesterday.
Bisu still ahead, he was mining from nat nexus for a good minute or so, and pumping probes from it while not losing any. Piano... scvs rushed, lost scvs.
That was beautiful, recalling a group of units with an Arbiter that has energy for a second recall, not falling for the bait with the massive minefield. Great game to start off the season.
Man, do people really still not realize the significance of 12nex? It's not cheese when a terran responds to a greedy build with an early rush. Besides, as we've noted on many occasions, you're often still behind even when you kill the nexus.
On October 10 2009 13:32 TanGeng wrote: why did they cover up levono?
because of korean media law
ever noticed they would use tape to cover up names of drinks and stuff?
same thing
Actually I noticed that. Always wondered about that too. I mean it might not be wise to show a brand that isn't a sponsor, but the brand would certainly prefer it as long as its being used correctly. I guess they might have laws against negative advertising that basically throws out the baby with the bath water.
On October 10 2009 13:42 GTR wrote: worst pickup of 2009.
I'll bite. While Hyuk may be one of the worst players ever, a build order loss in ZvZ is hardly justification against picking up an MSL silver medalist.
Uh... most 9 pool speed vs 12 hatch is almost an auto-loss, it says nothing about the skill level of either player except that Kwanro isn't as good as Effort, JD, or Calm.... and we already had conclusive proof of this from finals, his # of lineup appearances, and that JD is Jd.
On October 10 2009 13:40 Jyvblamo wrote: Yo dawg, I heard you like zerg memes so we put Kwanro against Hyuk so you can be Hyuked while you get Kwanrolled.
EPT![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yszx/5yhd9/10-82009-mainminir1.png)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5ysor/5yhd9/09242009-lineupsv3.png)
Bisu < Fighting Spirit > 
PianO
Hyuk < Tornado > ![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5ysop/5yhd9/09242009-resultsv3.png)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5ysoq/5yhd9/09242009-reccedv3.png)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yt0w/5yhd9/10102009-pianowest.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yt0y/5yhd9/10102009-pianowesttemplate.png)
![[image loading]](http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6475/hyuken.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.pokemoneps.com/media/005.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5ypmd/5yhd9/06282009-freeexplosionv2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8509/facepalmzv.jpg)
