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explain some of these terms

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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gg_hertzz
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
2152 Posts
October 31 2008 06:04 GMT
#1
some people like to make a distinction between strategy and tactics. i guess strategy has to do with what you're trying to achieve overall with regards to how you want to achieve victory while tactics are specific actions you take to achieve that goal. Or are there other explanations?

and what about mechanics versus conttrol? what's the difference? are there any?

Explain some of these terms:

Strategy

Tactics

Mechanics

Build Order

Control
Leath
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada1724 Posts
October 31 2008 06:20 GMT
#2
My opinion (subjective):

Strategy: It is the procedure of planning your military forces disposal. A good strategy will involve analyzing the strengths and weakness of both the map and opponent, and plan the necessary steps to use them to your advantage.

Tactics: I have always taken for granted as a synonym of strategy. But if anyone is using the two terms distinctively, Id guess Tactics would have been used to describe the steps being taken and making your strategy plans come to life, perhaps adapting? I really dont know.

Mechanics: In Starcraft there are a series of repetitive actions you need to do. I would say mechanics refer to how accurate and precise you can perform these series of actions.

Build Order: This must be the most straight forward one. It has to be the sequence on which you choose to build your structures and units.

Control: I think control is closely related to micro. Just like I think macro and timing are closely related. Just being able to spend your resources well doesnt necessarily means your macro is good, you need to be able to know how to manipulate it so that your army comes at the right time to fulfill your plan of action. Control is a bit like micro, but I think it is more related to unit formation, hotkeying, and manipulating your army as a big chunk; Whereas micro is more related to unit control.
http://www.kongregate.com/?referrer=Sagess
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-31 06:27:27
October 31 2008 06:25 GMT
#3
Strategy: going Fe every game

Tactics : flanking + 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a

Mechanics: 1z2z3z4d5d6d7d8d9d

Build Order: Fe

Control:1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a + 300apm

Just wanted to say that starcraft isnt a strategy game for at least 8 years and mechanics > brain nowadays.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
onihunter
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States515 Posts
October 31 2008 06:25 GMT
#4
I would say the difference between strategy and tactics is strategy involves your overall game-plan, ie go for slow drop lurkers or something. Tactics is your on the spot actions to achieve your strategy, like burrowing ur lurkers in strategical locations. Another example is flanking.
jaedong forever~
Conquest101
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1395 Posts
October 31 2008 06:25 GMT
#5
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=36778 <- Strategy vs Tactics?

Build Order / BO - The order and timing at which buildings are made at the start of the game.

Mechanics is easy
Control = Micro?
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
October 31 2008 06:28 GMT
#6
On October 31 2008 15:04 gg_hertzz wrote:
some people like to make a distinction between strategy and tactics. i guess strategy has to do with what you're trying to achieve overall with regards to how you want to achieve victory while tactics are specific actions you take to achieve that goal. Or are there other explanations?

and what about mechanics versus conttrol? what's the difference? are there any?

Explain some of these terms:

Strategy

Tactics

Mechanics

Build Order

Control

In terms of BW...

Strategy: Your overall plan for the game...like what your BO will lead to, and what your overall play style will be for that game, whether it be macro-oriented, all-in, aggressive, what have you. Game and timing sense is often included here too.

Tactics: I've never really used this term in terms of SC before, so I'll just leave it at that.

Mechanics: The aspect of the game distinct from strategy. This is the actual execution of whatever you're going to do. APM is often used as a measure of mechanical ability, but is not the end-all. Things like executing a BO, the quality of your micro, your macro, etc is included.

Build Order: The order you build stuff in...in the early game, this often even includes the number of units you should specifically have, and when you put workers on and off gas, etc. BOs are important for optimizing the timing of your strategies and whatnot.

Control: Micro...your control over your units.
Hello
BlackStar
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Netherlands3029 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-31 06:55:15
October 31 2008 06:37 GMT
#7
Strategy: Large scale decision making regarding mind games, economics, timings, countering BOs, when and where to fight

Tactics: Descision making regarding individual battles

BO: Order in which you build stuff

Mechanics: Overall execution skill

Control: The ability to have your units in the right place at the right time doing the right thing
Artosis *
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States2140 Posts
October 31 2008 06:48 GMT
#8

Strategy - the general game plan used.

Tactics - tactics can get confused with strategy, but its something a bit different. if you mix strategy, micro, and style into one thing, i would call that tactics i guess. for instance, you may have 12 vultures and 4 tanks vs protoss, and attack at his goons. i on the other hand, will run my vultures around the goons and lay mines behind them while they retreat from my tanks. this is tactics.

Mechanics - mechanics are what you call macro, but it can also somewhat refer to micro. sadly, "mechanic" can also refer to tanks + vultures + gols, but normally we just call that "mech".

Build Order - the actual order and timing of how you build things. often this gets interchanged with strategy.

Control - control is simply micro. its how you click around with a unit to make it effective.
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/Artosis
Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
October 31 2008 06:52 GMT
#9
On October 31 2008 15:04 gg_hertzz wrote:
some people like to make a distinction between strategy and tactics. i guess strategy has to do with what you're trying to achieve overall with regards to how you want to achieve victory while tactics are specific actions you take to achieve that goal. Or are there other explanations?

and what about mechanics versus conttrol? what's the difference? are there any?

Explain some of these terms:

Strategy

Tactics

Mechanics

Build Order

Control


Strategy: Your specific art of war if you will. Mine is- never engage an opponent until your victory is already guaranteed. Strategy in SCBW varies from person to person. It is the culmination of your experience, skill and play style. That is your strategy, your grand scheme.

Tactics: The use of tactics helps to fulfill your strategy. Tactics can be applicable to anything that will help further your goal in the short term realm or strategy. Ie. If you take this expo now, your economy will increase, which in turn will help your strategy of creating a superior army. Or Flanking the enemy to increase your chance of defeating his force. Once again helping to fulfill your overall strategy.

Mechanics: How well can you physically manipulate your given tools to help create tactics, and thus perform a strategy? Ie. Macro-micro

Build Order: The plan by which you base your tactics. The Bo in SCBW is your strategy written on paper. Or written in your mind. The build order is the strategy through which your mechanics are used to create tactics which fulfill your strategic goals.

Control: Eliminating random and inhibiting factors is control. Controlling your mind- to allow it to think clearly. Controlling your army to fight effectively. Controlling your economy to produce efficiently. That is control.


Ok hope that helps?
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
Ozarugold
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
2716 Posts
October 31 2008 07:08 GMT
#10
Strategy- Savior
Tactics- Strategy with Defilers.
Mechanics- Jaedong
Build Order- The order of buildings built?
Control- Boxer
this is my quote.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7888 Posts
October 31 2008 11:19 GMT
#11
On October 31 2008 15:25 Boblion wrote:
Strategy: going Fe every game

Tactics : flanking + 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a

Mechanics: 1z2z3z4d5d6d7d8d9d

Build Order: Fe

Control:1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a + 300apm

Just wanted to say that starcraft isnt a strategy game for at least 8 years and mechanics > brain nowadays.

I don't really agree.

Starcraft would be really uninteresting if it was the case.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10828 Posts
October 31 2008 11:25 GMT
#12
control is the korean term for micro.
ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
mahnini
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States6862 Posts
October 31 2008 11:34 GMT
#13
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=68523

selfplug ignore everything but OP kthx
the world's a playground. you know that when you're a kid, but somewhere along the way everyone forgets it.
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
October 31 2008 12:28 GMT
#14
I've liked to think of strategy as what you do and tactics are what you use to do it. :o

This might be wrong but I like the way it sounds.
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
October 31 2008 12:34 GMT
#15
^^
Happy Birthday
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-31 21:48:19
October 31 2008 21:46 GMT
#16
Strat = overall build order, mind set for how you want to play the game or matchup. (macro)

Tactics = How you control the units in your strat. Timing drops, flanks, etc.(micro)

Mechanics = Overall macro, how well you place buildings, know maps, know your own finger dexterity etc. (macro)

Build order = Something that you have preplanned or practiced usually a major part of your strategy. (macro)

Control = Imo, this is just another word for Micro, or it can mean unit count in a game, or it can mean how you play the game aggressively, defensively, passively, etc. (depending on what meaning you are talking about Micro, Game Stat, Mentality/Intuition?)


As you can see these terms overlap and interchange pretty easily. It just depends on context.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
October 31 2008 22:06 GMT
#17
On October 31 2008 15:25 Boblion wrote:
Strategy: going Fe every game

Tactics : flanking + 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a

Mechanics: 1z2z3z4d5d6d7d8d9d

Build Order: Fe

Control:1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a + 300apm

Just wanted to say that starcraft isnt a strategy game for at least 8 years and mechanics > brain nowadays.

So wrong.

What happens when players are equal or close to euqal in mechanics? Oh shit your point just got owned didn't it?

Beyond that there are many times at all levels of play where a player will make up an excellent build and with weaker mechanics, will beat a better player. Download a random selection of replays and you will see it for yourself.

I would know. My apm is not that high(150ish) but I can still compete with players with a lot better mechanics than myself.

Play Kwark sometime. He has extremely low apm but he is a very good protoss because hes smart and knows how to play it.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
October 31 2008 22:47 GMT
#18
Mechanics is knowing the basics of starcraft and control is something else....like controlling your army like casting proper storms while mechanics is stuff like macro methinks
dekuschrub
Profile Joined May 2008
United States2069 Posts
November 01 2008 00:51 GMT
#19
i always thought mechanics had a big element of econ management. Such as never missing a probe, transferring perfect numbers of probes at the perfect time, putting up your production facilities at the time when they maximize your econ. It also has to do with execution of your BO properly. Most of the macro monsters on the pro scene are able to do so due to their superior mechanics (i.e. Flash, Best, Stork, Forgg I think).

Also I think mechanics have an element that if you have really good mechanics you can alter the timings of your BO to better adapt to your opponent while still managing a beastly economy or something like that. My mechanics are horrid but i'm sure pros can do shit like that.
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
November 01 2008 01:00 GMT
#20
ya you nailed what mechanics are right on the spot
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
November 01 2008 02:33 GMT
#21
On October 31 2008 15:04 gg_hertzz wrote:
some people like to make a distinction between strategy and tactics. i guess strategy has to do with what you're trying to achieve overall with regards to how you want to achieve victory while tactics are specific actions you take to achieve that goal. Or are there other explanations?

and what about mechanics versus conttrol? what's the difference? are there any?

Explain some of these terms:

Strategy

Tactics

Mechanics

Build Order

Control


strategy is overarching goals and plans

Tactics are the specific steps you take to accomplish the strategy. So like marine micro would fall under this.

Mechanics: Micro and macro. The stuff you do with keyboard and mouse that makes stuff happen.

Build Order. Can refer to a very specific build, or slightly more general. Basically an algorithm that describes a specific way of playing.

Control: micromanagement and unit control. Control is a subset of tactics, and tactics a subset of strategy. Mechanics is control + macro + whatever else you physically do. Build order is the specific algorithm tailored to your strategy, whereas tactics has more to do with execution, especially of micro (flanks etc)
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
November 01 2008 05:20 GMT
#22
Mechanics is executing the basic actions you need to acheive optimal use of the game's perameters.

ie:Cycling through your gates with either key or mouse clicks and pressing the correct hotkey of the unit you actually want to build in the fastest possible time.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
VIB
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil3567 Posts
November 01 2008 17:11 GMT
#23
strategy = fantasy
tactics = boxer
mechanics = flash
build order = bisu
control = jaedong
Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people.
0xDEADBEEF
Profile Joined September 2007
Germany1235 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-01 18:13:42
November 01 2008 18:13 GMT
#24
Strategy: broad game plan, e.g. "3 hatch muta to lurk to defiler" or "dt rush ftw" or "mass expand yay" or "i'll go dt drop, which fails but i kill 2 workers and then i type 'noob' and leave". Requires an IQ slightly above monkey level.

Tactics: when you start thinking advanced thoughts like "omg if I like storm a bit in front of where the workers are running it'll pwn so many more workers. That'll fucking rock" or "holy crap dude if I spread my M&M against lurkers they won't all die in 1 sec" or "OMFG flanking rocks, I should do this more often". Requires an IQ of at least a really goddamn stupid human (70?), so few SC players are able to do this stuff.
If you *can* do this stuff and are also *fast* (see next point), you should immediately go to Korea and start a progaming career. Or you don't, when your IQ is higher than 70.

Mechanics: what you suck at. Requires an IQ of 0, but lots of speed. It's what makes you sweat and your hands hurt. Players who are good at Tactics but bad at Mechanics say "it's not that important" and continue to suck. Players who are good at Mechanics but bad at Tactics say "OMG I JUST REACHED ICCUP A++++, BUT I STILL CAN'T BEAT KOREAN PROS, WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?!?!?!".

Build Order: how fast you start pumping mutas or DTs. Requires an IQ slightly above monkey level.

Control: how much BoxeR you are (and don't you dare say that other players can control units better. Unwritten SC law #1: nobody micros better than BoxeR)
zgl
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States1055 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-01 19:45:09
November 01 2008 19:42 GMT
#25
Mechanics is a holistic term ...I'll try to define it by example. A Terran's "push-mechanics" measures his:
1. control of units
2. placement of units and keeping the right spacing between them
3. usage of mines
4. building turrets to avoid zeal bombs
5. using vults to intercept charging zealots or retreating goons
6. reinforcing
7. sniping HT whenever the opportunity presents itself
... etc
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
November 01 2008 19:44 GMT
#26


Strategy: The overall plan to win. I believe that build order would fall into the strategy category, while anti lurker micro would fall into the tactics category. However I think that Strategy and Tactics are both relative to the conflict that they exist to solve. By that I mean the argument that SC is an example of a tactics game is incorrect because strategies exist to solve problems. In the scope of a video game, the problem is a game that needs to be completed. For instance, my problem in Mario Brothers is that Bowser can't keep it in his pants right? My strategy is to complete the levels and get the princess back. A more specific strategy would be in the second level of world one I am going to use the warp zone to skip to world four.

Tactics: using the same analogy before, when I get to the first goomba in level 1 of world one I am going to jump over him and grab the mushroom that pops out of the ? block right after him. Because this solution only addresses a single problem, that first goomba, it is not a strategy. However, if in dealing with all goombas my solution is to jump over them, that is a strategy. Strategies can be formulated to deal with reoccurring problems however their implementation to a unique situation is a tactic. I can always decide that when a lurker fires spins I'm going to move my marines and abuse the lurkers cooldown but when I play a specific game on Python and use my anti lurker micro outside my natural to deal with a particuler players skill that is a tactic.

Complicated?

Mechanics: Not going to touch this one.

Build Order: Your build order reflects what you are doing on the construction side of your game. However a build order does not react to unique situations like tactics do. Build orders are static ideas that move as units, that is the block of ideas that you have about a certain situation can count as a build order. For instance, assuming I'm not going to five pool (like a girl) the plan up until I get my scouting information is a build order. This would be presumably, in the case of tvP, (sorry for mixing ideas i don't actually play zerg) beginning with 9 supply. If I didn't scout then and planned on scouting at 13 the rax/refinery would still be part of that build order. If you guessed right and were playing agaisnt one or two gate range goon into a harass into an expo then how you react for a given period of time counts as a build order. However as soon as you play from your experience and not from a plan that you created (or copied) before the game you aren't following a build order anymore.

To reiterate, build orders are preconceived strategies. Multiple build orders can exist in a game IMHO but must all involve a preconceived plan for reacting to things.

Control: Control is anything that you do that you don't leave to the AI except in the case that you plan what you want the AI to do. If I know for sure that my marine is going to attack the unit that I want it to if I allow the AI to choose the target then that is still control.

As always IMHO
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
November 01 2008 23:23 GMT
#27
ABOUT the debate of mechanics vs strategy.
Mechanics enable strategy; the smartest person in the world loses if they lack mechanics to keep up macro/some micro. As you progress more and more mechanics become necessary. However, most people vastly over-estimate the amount of mechanics needed to remain competitive at each level
Liquid | SKT
Medar
Profile Joined October 2006
Finland21 Posts
November 02 2008 00:13 GMT
#28
I like these definitions from WordNet:

strategy: the branch of military science dealing with military command and the planning and conduct of a war

tactics: the branch of military science dealing with detailed maneuvers to achieve objectives set by strategy

So strategy could be gaining an economic advantage by harassing opponents workers, and tactics could be a storm drop.
gg_hertzz
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
2152 Posts
November 02 2008 00:19 GMT
#29
I think Mechanics is the hardest to explain. Unlike control, which you can plainly see in the form of mnm micro or muta harassment, mechanics is the stuff that aren't as visible.
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
November 02 2008 00:36 GMT
#30
On November 02 2008 09:13 Medar wrote:
I like these definitions from WordNet:

strategy: the branch of military science dealing with military command and the planning and conduct of a war

tactics: the branch of military science dealing with detailed maneuvers to achieve objectives set by strategy

So strategy could be gaining an economic advantage by harassing opponents workers, and tactics could be a storm drop.


man nice use of wordnet. Ontologies for the win
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