EPT[i] Queens ZvP - Page 2
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kakisama
Canada82 Posts
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GuYuTe-
United States550 Posts
And a queen or 2 can be quite useful in 2v2s also. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33075 Posts
That said, I honestly think queens will find some use during the pre defiler phase, once pros figure out the timing and resources of incorporating them into their builds. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28553 Posts
On March 24 2008 23:55 Shauni wrote: So why do not progamers use queens against mass corsairs? The trend in PvZ has recently been to go FE into 2gate sair. Wouldn't an early ensnare make them very vulnerable to following hydras or scourges? Or do the sairs kill the queen before it manages to get off its ensnare spell. If UpMagiC was Zerg, would he use queens? excuse my arrogance but I honestly think the only reason why a progamer would not get ensnare against mass corsair is a combination of 1 : not being good enough at using queens (for example, you kind of need to at least temporarily dedicate a hotkey to queens to properly use them, or you'll find that they're never where they are supposed to be. I personally used "0". and 2 : not being aware of how beneficial it is. the fact is, you rarely see people "experiment" with queens, however you do see the same players build them over and over. this is because once people are accustomed to building them, building them in the situations where they are great, becomes totally natural, kind of like how building defilers zvt is something people do without having to think, but before they became mainstream, it was not. however, incorporating something new into an already functioning style of play is well, it's honestly not even particulary difficult, it's just something people are unwilling to do. tvp has undergone a similar revolution, with emp vs arbiters, something that's more and more frequently used, and pvt had one a long time ago when people first started getting mass stasis. the reason why queens havent really had their breakthrough is that zergs have been able to win without them. | ||
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JustinSane
United States6 Posts
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tKd_
United States2916 Posts
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
You're probably already hurting for gas in Z v T from lurkers, and once you have the Queen's den, going straight to hive and spending your gas in Defilers is a much better choice than investing any money in queens. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On March 25 2008 03:08 GeneralStan wrote: Defiler >> Queen in Z v T You're probably already hurting for gas in Z v T from lurkers, and once you have the Queen's den, going straight to hive and spending your gas in Defilers is a much better choice than investing any money in queens. I find that the Hive tech timing window is pretty big for the Terran to exploit though. I like to stay on Lair for a bit longer than most zergs and make a large amount of lurkerling to try and tech to Hive with an advantage, rather than stalling for every possible second while tanks pound my natural sunkens. A well placed Ensnare can help lurkerling immensely, considering I have bad macro and usually have the resources to spare :p I'm not really sure if that's relevant to the thread though, seeing as how the thread is ZvP oriented. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
The ideal would be of course plague / darkswarm / parasite / ensnare like i said in an another thread. | ||
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skcaH
Korea (South)92 Posts
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On March 25 2008 10:08 skcaH wrote: ensnare probes. gg YEAH! Just think of all the minerals and gas they'll never be able to use, all because their probes move a tad slower! /facepalm | ||
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Night[Mare
Mexico4793 Posts
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decafchicken
United States19930 Posts
i dont even remember what the build was, something like 12 hatch 11pool, then gas and then 3rd hatch and somehow timing of queen + lurk ling worked out and then when T comes to contain w/ mnm ensnare, rape, and then pressure/expand/win. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28553 Posts
defiler >> queen zvt. but seriously, defiler + queen.. that's one fucking amazing combination. ensnare+swarm is just incredible. and if you keep the queen(s) hotkeyed it's not even particulary hard to execute. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28553 Posts
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Not_Computer
Canada2277 Posts
On a more... actually, less serious note: I've once tried ensnaring archons that were chasing my mutas, but I just ended up not microing my mutas and getting them killed by something else. Also ensnared a shuttle once and killed it with hydras too... AFTER its reaver killed all my drones and other stuff. Broodling takes way too long to wait for energy and is only useful in stalemates (I never had a chance to use broodling in a 1v1, ever). Parasite is useful but I always forget about it. The only thing I've used queens for in 1v1 is infesting command centres when terrans lift them from my ultraling. .. Queens are very difficult to use properly... but if you can pull it off, it's pretty impressive (and sends a message to your opponent "you got owned by queens") | ||
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Metaspace
Austria670 Posts
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axel
France385 Posts
Then i made queens because i thought broodlings worked on reavers and so. But ofc it doesnot . Anyway with ensane it was a nightmare for the p, i mean it was already quite imposible to go out vs sunkens lurks spore hydra but with ensane microing was just impossible for them (+ the fact units attack is affected). Of course he they tryed with many reavers but i just send some hydras assaults to kill em one by one from time to time. With parasite i could know every thing he was doing ( shutles /corsair intercepted by hydras or scourges , how much troops he got ..) . With broodling i was killing templars wich made him pumping only goons and reavers then . Still killling some goons every minutes is quite demoralizating. By the time and the fact he had to switch from "classic fast expand protoss army" to "olldchool fast expand protoss army " ( corsair reavers ..then goons) he did not have minerals anymore. I'm not a good zerg neither a z user but i'm pretty sure its very very effective build if it was used by a good zerg. U dont need many gas and troops , so while u just block him and cause u needed queen nest u can slowly switch to pure ultras with only 3 gas. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
If UpMagiC was Zerg, would he use queens? haha nice comment, I'm sure he would ^^On March 23 2008 12:24 Aurious wrote: Isn't it actually the opposite. I'm thinking ensnare + hydras or even ensnare + scourges would terrifyingly counter sairs.Well, since most Protoss's normally go Corsair now it wouldn't be overall worth it. The unit that is an absolute counter to queens Like it has been said before. Going queens only for the broodling against HT would be way expensive and take too long. I was thinking more like go queens to support your early muta or hydra army against sairs. You could mass muta for the flexibility and map control. Harrass him here and there to keep him busy while you mass expand and contain him from expanding. One natural and common counter for that is to go 2 stargate which would own your mutas after getting a critical mass of sairs. If you manage to keep some queens around and use ensnare + scourge to keep his sair count low. You would be able to maintain air superiority and expand better. Once the toss starts switching from sairs 2 HTs, by then your old queens will already have nice amount of energy. So you keep muta harrasing, but broodling HTs here and there to keep there number low. Never tried it myself, actually. Just pure theorycrafting here. I could be totally wrong. But by watching some Bisu vs zerg vids, which usually goes from pure sair air domination leading to HT/reaver to counter hydras. I figured some early snares could keep the first sair harrass at bay. Give the zerg mobility -> expansion advantage. Which would, theorically, lead to easier dealing with HTs late game. I mean, just look at this game: Bisu vs Savior in Katrina. Savior mass expanded and went mass hydras but just couldn't defend all bases against the flexibility of mass sairs harrass + reaver/ht drops in all bases with just hydras. His hydras got owned by the mobility of sairs + shuttles, specially on Katrina. If instead of 10000 hydras he had spent part of that money in Queens. Wouldn't he be able to deal with it much better? Wouldn't snare + hydras put a period on the mass sairs? Wouldn't snare + scourge put a period on the shuttles? | ||
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