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United States5770 Posts
This happens because of my failure, I know. Don't bother saying "the solution is to not let him contain you." I know this already. However, let's say I mess up and get contained. Is it GG? Or is there a specific strategy or way to push through that containment and regain economic stability? | ||
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
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Aurious
Canada1772 Posts
1) Tech fast get templar archives and shuttles while massing a huge zealot dragoon army. 2) Just keep him pushed back while getting an island expansion. If you choose the 1st option then you have to make sure that you kill him or severly damage him. The main reason for this is because he would have an expansion, possibly 4 facs, and starting to mass. The second choice is harder to defend because you won't be able to push him all the way back. The main thing you need to do is keep him away from your ramp. Hope that helps, I've got limited knowledge on getting contained like that because of my play style. | ||
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aRod
United States758 Posts
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crescendo
United States140 Posts
Getting contained never means a GG because you also have to take into account how much the Terran has to devote to keep you contained. A good amount of the time, if a Terran is hardcore containing you, you also have to remember that if you are to break the contain, the Terran is at a serious disadvantage because he's been devoting so much resources (turrets, bunkers, mines) at that location. Even if he mines up like crazy, you're very ahead in tech., so you can start grabbing your expos and seeing how much you can harass him with what you have. >=D So... first: It's obviously not good that you got contained to the point that you had to go back into your main, but that's okay (remember, it's not a GG =D). But to address that, first, you want to be sure that you're not just running like a bat out of hell when you move out and see that the guy has like SCVs, vultures, marines, and the tank breathing down your neck and heading to your base. You want to be sure to be keeping tabs on what he has and making sure that he fights for EVERY LITTLE BIT of ground he can cover to get to you. This means having solid Dragoon micro as you delay him as much as possible before he gets to your base, being sure to snipe whatever you can and trying to delay the push as long as possible. Remember, as long as you have Goons with range, theoretically YOU are still very much in control no matter what he does. Generally unless you're teching incredibly hard, most of the time you want to have your goons knocking on HIS door at the beginning, or at least outside, waiting for when he's going to push and making it as hard as possible for him to push you back to your base. So work on your Goon micro a lot, because most of the time, contains shouldn't be super easy for Terran. But say that doesn't really work... and oh crap, you're contained. What you really need to be doing at this point is judging what's out there waiting for you, and making sure all the while you're powering (i.e. teching hard and macroing hard, being sure you throw up that third gateway, etc.). As the other people above me said, you really want to keep your ramp safe, and you're definitely going to need the sexy shuttles and observers. If you've already been going down that tech route, DTs are effective if the turrets don't get set up in time. With your obs, see where the mines are, where his units are positioned, how they're positioned, and think, "can I Z-bomb this place?" "Can I snipe this?" "Can I shuttle some units out back and try and flank?" It's important to accurately judge the timing of breaking out, because there's always the times when you don't have enough to break out or you let the time pass and he grew too strong, your breakout fails... and yeah, that's when the GG hits. But there's always that period of time when the contain is just not strong enough compared to what you have, and you should be okay to get out and eat his base. =D I always thought that this replay of Tempest versus Flash was a wonderful example of how to break out of a contain, and the results of a Terran overcomitting to that contain: http://www.sendspace.com/file/2kuwvu Good luck with your future games! | ||
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United States5770 Posts
Here's another question: Okay so let's say I'm still in this position and he DOES have the turrets up already (since you were saying DTs are effective if they're not up). Would it be worth my time to get a couple DTs and then focus all my goon/zealot fire on the turrets? Or should I just not use DTs if he has turrets? I guess it would probably depend on whether he had a scan or not, which at this point he probably wouldn't unless he saw my archives go up | ||
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crescendo
United States140 Posts
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
If its later in the game, same deal, have alot of zealot bombs and drop them off quickly. Another strategy is to harass the terran with drops (storms, reavers) which would slow their economy down, but it depends on how many expos they have. Secret carriers work very nice as well, terran sets up like 10 tanks and 20ish vultures with 3 turrets and you come out with carriers, how scary is that? | ||
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crescendo
United States140 Posts
On October 06 2007 15:59 il0seonpurpose wrote: It actually depends on how contained you are, if its early in the game, the possible way out is perhaps set up some cannons so he doesnt get free probe kills... ...o_O? Not only should Protoss not get a Forge if it's that early in the game, but getting static defense is just the OPPOSITE of what you need to be doing to break a contain. You're not supposed to let any vultures in if you're getting contained in the first place, and if they're starting to get in, it probably means you don't have enough units and it's time to GG. >_>;; | ||
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United States5770 Posts
Also wtf carriers? I totally understand the value of carriers PvT, but I think going early carriers would be a cheese strat I should try to avoid until I'm better at more solid strats. | ||
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
http://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php?replaynum=32606 (hope you don't mind fakesteve) The biggest problem I found when trying to exit my choke was the narrow space forcing all my units together. This was really hurt by a very late robo bay, which meant late observers, late shuttles. On LT, in a containment, the robo bay is very important, and in my case, since my opponent was playing off of one base the best strategy I could think of was to attack his mining scvs and eventually try to get a hidden expo up (hopefully on an island). As a general tip, I find I need more zealots than usual to break out of that kind of narrow contain, especially when the bulk of the contain is mines and tanks without a ton of vultures. But the failed dt drop was probably my best chance to come back. So I would really suggest using the cliffs to your advantage when you try to break out, have an observer (with proper timing), a shuttle with zealots, and just try to not screw up your micro (spread out you goons as much as possible, focus fire on tanks, learn when to retreat and pick off the turrets and bunkers left behind, land your zealots on top of tanks and try to get mine drags). If this post sucks I'll remove it :X Also, if you dont want the replay posted I'll remove that as well :X | ||
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LastWish
2015 Posts
- mass goon, transport to bypass and attack his base or contain from behind - into dt drop, while making leg speed and massing zeal goon army - into reaver drop I wouldn't go for carriers only if there was an island, one gas = carriers + no goons, and frankly zeal+carrier isn't that good. Hiding it is not too viable since I would expect a scan in your base after a while. Forge makes sense only in case you're going carriers and want to keep vulture threat out. Otherwise goon>cannon(cheaper in minerals, mobile, but cost's gas and is no detector and triggers mines) far into midgame where it becomes easier to make cannons(easy to build, minerals don't matter anymore, no supply cost). | ||
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dragoonkf
Singapore1256 Posts
Once you break out of the containment, its time to find expos, and expo yourself. Do a storm drop if possible, since they most probably didnt put up turrets in their bases due to committing them to containing you. So try not to give up ^_^, and hope this helps. | ||
micronesia
United States24807 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
On October 06 2007 14:56 aRod wrote: You can always try to ask him nicely to move his tanks and vultures back and let you try again. Hey XaRod isn't a bad username! | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
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Response
United States1938 Posts
On October 06 2007 23:21 dragoonkf wrote: crescendo actually explained in detail, yeah. Also you could try for a risky strategy that is to get HT to storm off the tanks if they are clumped (usually they are clumped if they are containing you at your choke). Getting Ht at 1 gas is really risky but could pay off if you storm it right. Since you are getting ht, most probably you wont have robo up due to the gas pressure, thus to be on the safe side, get some probes to actually be cannon fodder. Once you break out of the containment, its time to find expos, and expo yourself. Do a storm drop if possible, since they most probably didnt put up turrets in their bases due to committing them to containing you. So try not to give up ^_^, and hope this helps. worst idea ever | ||
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