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More Brood War "Mysteries" explained

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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1 2 Next All
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-11 12:38:25
February 24 2021 12:38 GMT
#1
So after a deeper look at "Brood War is a mystery part 4" there's obviously still part 1 to 3 left.

Part 1:
+ Show Spoiler [show video] +


Explanation: This is just another variation of the target switch glitch.
Let's go through it step by step.
  • The Zealot has the near Marine assigned as target and goes throught its attack loop iscript (iscripts are scripts coding the sequence of sprites and triggered events during animations on a frame-by-frame basis). For a Zealot it follows the rough structure attack1–wait–attack2–(repeat after remaining cooldown).
  • The first Marine dies after one attack, the second Marine attacks the Zealot at the same time. The loss of its target and the forced prioritizing of attacking units in target selection lets the Zealot switch target immediately – while still stuck in its attack state.
  • The second attack hits (and kills) the second Marine, because range checks are only applied before an attack iscript is initiated, not while it is running.
EDIT: Another interesting instance of the glitch:
+ Show Spoiler [Show video (featuring Artosis having n…] +

Note: Also note how Tanks are explicitly exempt from self-damaging!


Part 2:
+ Show Spoiler [show video] +


Explanation: The explanation in this case is rather trivial, let's go through the observable sequence of events:
  • The Arbiter moves in and attacks an SCV, so we know it was right-clicked on it and in an attack state
  • Right after the projectile is released the Recall animation occurs. The only unit attacking the Arbiter at this point is a Turret right behind it.
  • Shortly after the Arbiter starts moving again – in the direction of the Turret, not away from it, or attacking it or the SCV. So even without bothering which orders and order priorities it was on before, we know that it must have been issued a new movement command.

Conclusion: Issuing a new movement command too early canceled the execution of the Recall half-way through – always use shift-commands after issuing a spell cast command.
Additional tip: Make sure there is no unwalkable terrain below the centre of the Arbiter at the end of the Recall – even something like a small doodad will prevent the execution of the placing-units part of it, even though there might be plenty of free space around otherwise.


Part 3:
+ Show Spoiler [show video] +


Explanation: The explanation here is quite clearly that the Tank was issued a siege command while overlapping its collision box with that of the Turret next to it. You can see the Tank move slightly downwards right after it was unsieged, which probably caused the collision, even though the exact mechanism behind this is not so clear. I guess the combination of rotation and forward movement of the Tank means that it did not fail a forward collision check that it should have failed. After that there is probably just not enough time to get it "unstuck" before it gets sieged again.

With the replay files it would be possible to run them through OpwnBW and see exactly frame by frame what happened.


EDIT: Part 5:
+ Show Spoiler [show video] +


So here's everything you never wanted to know about Larvae, graciously compiled by Ankmairdor:
Ankmairdor on SSCAIT discord wrote:
Actually it's more complex.
There is an array of 4 int, one for each side of the hatchery (left, top, right, bottom). Each time a mineral harvest is returned it subtracts 1 (if more than 0) from all values and adds 25 (if less than 100) to the side of the hatchery that it returned the minerals to.

When a larva needs to be spawned, the sides are checked in the order (bottom, left, right, top) for the side with the lowest score(equal scores prefers the current best). A side is disqualified if the larva would spawn out of bounds, off creep, on another building, or on unwalkable tile.

If a best side is chosen, then the larva will spawn in the center of that side of the hatchery with an offset of 10 from center of larva to edge of hatchery.

Otherwise, each side gets two spawn locations, one at each end of that side of the hatchery, and the process repeats with the same order of sides. For each side the left-most or top-most side is checked first.

For larva movement, when they are spawned they are given an order state corresponding to the side they spawned on. They will always prioritized moving towards their connected hatchery so that they are no more than 10 edge-to-edge distance away. Otherwise they will wander randomly along that side.

For each larva wander, the larva gets a random value. They will wander 10 left so long as this value does not have the 8 bit set, otherwise 10 right. They will wander 10 up so long as this value does not have the 128 bit set, otherwise down 10. If the new wander position would take the larva outside of it's designated side of the hatchery, then it will stay where it is.(though it can wander away from the hatchery till next wander)

The larva trick works by setting the order state to 0, which corresponds to the wander designation for the left side of the hatchery. More specifically, the stop command instantly finishes causing an order update, which always resets the order state. Larva wandering never finishes.
Ankmairdor on SSCAIT discord wrote:
[…] If they have no move target, larva pick 1 of 4 random diagonal positions to wander towards. If at the end of that wander they are more than 10 distance from the hatchery, then they will return straight back to it. For this glitch the 2 rows/columns(may only happen on bottom) of tiles must be similar to this(Creep, Hatchery, No creep):
C H H H H C
C N N N N C
The larva can partially occupy the H tiles in this example. Thus they can travel diagonally from H to the corner C over a N. Though they only notice the N tile when they are returning to the H tile cause they wandered too far.
Ankmairdor on SSCAIT discord wrote:line 6246 in bwgame.h is where larva behavior is […]

I sincerely hope all your answers are hereby questioned.
Highgamer
Profile Joined October 2015
1405 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-24 16:45:26
February 24 2021 16:42 GMT
#2
Give this man a star already!

edit: How cool annoying would it be if the game would actually always play the X-Files jingle whenever such a thing happens, lel
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10138 Posts
February 24 2021 20:57 GMT
#3
Great stuff, thanks for demystifying a bit for us
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
MineraIs
Profile Joined September 2020
United States846 Posts
February 24 2021 23:39 GMT
#4
I've experienced recalls not working multiple times. Such an annoyance.
✯ [ twitch.tv/MrMineraIs ] ✯ [ Check out my Maps: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/612442-official-maps-by-minerals ] ✯
Radivel-X17
Profile Joined January 2006
Canada144 Posts
February 25 2021 01:53 GMT
#5
On February 25 2021 08:39 MineraIs wrote:
I've experienced recalls not working multiple times. Such an annoyance.


It sounds like you've had a few bad experiences that you just... recalled.
I used to run SC2GG, if you remember that. Come to NHFFA discord. It's where a bunch of old players who all suck at BW hang out, as well as people who like to play FFAs for some reason. https://discord.com/invite/kWNQvnd
Timebon3s
Profile Joined May 2018
Norway688 Posts
February 25 2021 13:29 GMT
#6
On February 25 2021 10:53 Radivel-X17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 25 2021 08:39 MineraIs wrote:
I've experienced recalls not working multiple times. Such an annoyance.


It sounds like you've had a few bad experiences that you just... recalled.

:D haha
Sneazel
Profile Joined May 2011
Poland152 Posts
February 26 2021 12:11 GMT
#7
any explanation how my opponents probe went through zealot blocking the ramp? (he didnt have any vision earlier to minerals in my base because it was scouting probe). He definitely flied over my zealot
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10138 Posts
February 26 2021 15:26 GMT
#8
On February 26 2021 21:11 Sneazel wrote:
any explanation how my opponents probe went through zealot blocking the ramp? (he didnt have any vision earlier to minerals in my base because it was scouting probe). He definitely flied over my zealot

There is a known way to abuse this that is banned in competitive play IIRC
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
AttackZerg
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States7454 Posts
February 26 2021 21:56 GMT
#9
Thoughtful and interesting post. Thank you.
Volka
Profile Joined December 2010
Argentina408 Posts
February 26 2021 22:09 GMT
#10
hahaa I love this kind of things, keep up with the series!
http://www.starsite.com.ar
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42569 Posts
March 03 2021 00:02 GMT
#11
What about this?

ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
chillzzz
Profile Joined August 2018
30 Posts
March 03 2021 00:12 GMT
#12
target switch glitch? here's the same but with bony

Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10138 Posts
March 03 2021 07:59 GMT
#13
On March 03 2021 09:12 chillzzz wrote:
target switch glitch? here's the same but with bony

https://clips.twitch.tv/UnsightlyPiliableWrenCeilingCat

Has to be this. Common tragedy tbh.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-03 08:59:05
March 03 2021 08:58 GMT
#14
SO that is the secret ingredient for terran! Just hold position your tanks so they can double the range.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
March 04 2021 20:12 GMT
#15
You need to have something of lower target priority than what you want to hit in range though.
ne4aJIb
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Russian Federation3209 Posts
March 06 2021 13:00 GMT
#16
check zeros stream right now loool
Bisu,Best,Stork,Jangbi and Flash, Fantasy, Leta, Light and Jaedong, Hydra, Zero, Soulkey assemble in ACE now!
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
March 06 2021 14:24 GMT
#17
On March 06 2021 22:00 ne4aJIb wrote:
check zeros stream right now loool


Why?
-.-
LML
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Germany1764 Posts
March 06 2021 23:17 GMT
#18
On March 06 2021 22:00 ne4aJIb wrote:
check zeros stream right now loool


Quality post. Better not tell anyone what happened.


My guess is that this clip is from when you posted:
LML
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
March 07 2021 00:37 GMT
#19
Unit placement is weird. Look at it this way: The "ideal" respawn position, just below the bottom right edge of the Assimilator, is blocked by terrain. So the game looks for the "nearest position" to that (by some arbitrary, incomprehensible and probably rather insane definition of the word "nearest" that for some reason or other the developers at that point found to be a good idea, or at least good enough, that is: kinda working, so don't touch it or try to understand it lest it breaks). Long story short: Nearest in this case is obviously up the cliff.

Some additional thoughts:
  • This is related to spawning units across a terrain barrier from a production building
  • A necessary condition that needs to be met is that the spawn location be reachable by ground from the production building (or in this case the Geyser)
  • In some cases this effect can be used to speed up gas mining rates of geysers in non-optimal positions
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
March 07 2021 20:23 GMT
#20
one word: lmao.
-.-
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