often i cant make more gateways in mid game, because my building placement is so bad, i cant have multiple gateways stacked at 1 camera location, if i spread them like i usually do , often i miss producing units, any help and guide about the ladder maps whats the best placement for multiple gateways? specially pvz / pvt .

https://i.gyazo.com/cef8064e7b2eb53cfdf0981544094310.jpg example of my terrible last game layout vs zerg
https://i.gyazo.com/bf1d8f520ce2d3fba5a738edc6993c48.jpg and one in pvp that just played and tried a bit harder to think before build, but still looks not right

tnx

Anc13nt

1557 Posts

March 10 2020 17:58 GMT

if you look at pro games with protoss, high level players often put pylons in very precise places to maximizes the psi field but that is pretty hard to get right. if you put one pylon a bit too close to another pylon, it could completely mess up the sim city.

My advice for now is to first place 2 pylons, with one on top of the other so that you can put a 2 by 2 grid of gateways to the left of the 2 pylons and another 2 by 2 grid of gateways to the right. This is really easy to do because you don't have to think much about where to put the pylons (you only need to make sure there is enough room to fit the 8 gateways in your main, which will become easy with practice).

8 gates in the main should usually be enough for PvP and PvZ but I am aware that it may not be enough for PvT. If it's PvT, you might need more practice fitting additional gateways in the case of a late game, which you can do by creating custom map for sim city.

WGT-Baal

France3343 Posts

March 10 2020 19:13 GMT

Bit old with dead links But it might still help you:
https://tl.net/forum/bw-strategy/72142-protoss-gateway-placement
On top of that, Best has beautiful bases layout, and he plays a macro style so check him out

prosatan

Romania7764 Posts

March 10 2020 20:37 GMT

On March 11 2020 04:13 WGT-Baal wrote:
Bit old with dead links But it might still help you:
https://tl.net/forum/bw-strategy/72142-protoss-gateway-placement
On top of that, Best has beautiful bases layout, and he plays a macro style so check him out

Best has a nice gateway placement indeed ! He is a macro god !

But let's not forget Horang2! Watch his building placement please! He is like an architect ! Perfect !

Freakling

Germany1526 Posts

March 11 2020 13:57 GMT

On March 11 2020 02:58 Anc13nt wrote:
if you look at pro games with protoss, high level players often put pylons in very precise places to maximizes the psi field but that is pretty hard to get right. if you put one pylon a bit too close to another pylon, it could completely mess up the sim city.

My advice for now is to first place 2 pylons, with one on top of the other so that you can put a 2 by 2 grid of gateways to the left of the 2 pylons and another 2 by 2 grid of gateways to the right. This is really easy to do because you don't have to think much about where to put the pylons (you only need to make sure there is enough room to fit the 8 gateways in your main, which will become easy with practice).

8 gates in the main should usually be enough for PvP and PvZ but I am aware that it may not be enough for PvT. If it's PvT, you might need more practice fitting additional gateways in the case of a late game, which you can do by creating custom map for sim city.

This is in fact an easily extendable layout:
+ Show Spoiler [show image] +

That's 24 Gates (kinda sorta) in a classical small screen section. Most maps probably won't have a rectangular space where you could fit all of that in though. The only real problem with this layout (driven to this extreme) is that it blocks unit movement in the y direction, so you probably want to leave some additional gaps (at the cost of packing density), depending on the map and spawn point.

Many pros, including Best, tend to start their layouts clustering around their main Nexus and Assimilator, like this:
+ Show Spoiler [show image] +

If you want to achieve maximal packing density while still leaving enough room for Dragoon spawns in between the Gates, try this placing clusters like this:
+ Show Spoiler [show image] +

Just don't let that Pylon be sniped 8D

FlaShFTW

United States10095 Posts

March 11 2020 15:56 GMT

General rule is to put tech structures at the back, production buildings at the front. Also as Protoss you want to be making your buildings as compact as possible, so unless you know exactly where you want your pylons to be, try to maximize your gateways per pylon first, then add pylon in the next spot where you want future gates to be.

Picture 1: You definitely have more space closer to the ramp below your current line of gates in the main. I would suggest also moving the observatory to the back of the base, as well as potentially moving the robo facility to your natural where you have cannons near the ramp. Also suggest moving to a more horizontal gateway building style, where you have vertical pylon row, with 2 rows of gateways to the left or the right. This will make it so that a line of 3 pylons will power 8 gateways in a 10x6 grid. Rinse and repeat, and more gates can actually fit above or below.

Picture 2: Again, minimize deadspace. The gateways are unnecessarily far from the pylons. If you reduced the deadspace and put the gateways directly right of the pylon without the gap, you could fit an extra row to the right. Move your tech structures like citadel, core, observatory, and robo support bay all to the bottom, then you free up space left of the pylons for another 8 potential gateway slots. La Mancha is a large main, you shouldn't have trouble fitting 20 gates in one main. You can also fit more gates directly right of the nexus and gas to make one row of them.

Hope this helps.

MelinaZzZz

Bulgaria8 Posts

March 13 2020 03:17 GMT

Thanks everyone, i started think a bit before i build , some improvements i think
https://i.gyazo.com/e47a2a7497fe881f7a28268b01ad36b8.jpg
https://i.gyazo.com/a3e3cc82bdb49a05cc39058418a68cd4.jpg

WGT-Baal

France3343 Posts

March 13 2020 18:49 GMT

On March 13 2020 12:17 MelinaZzZz wrote:
Thanks everyone, i started think a bit before i build , some improvements i think
https://i.gyazo.com/e47a2a7497fe881f7a28268b01ad36b8.jpg
https://i.gyazo.com/a3e3cc82bdb49a05cc39058418a68cd4.jpg

Yes, looking better

MeSaber

Sweden1235 Posts

March 14 2020 09:05 GMT

Make zels from center gates, goons/dts from outer ones.

The better simcity you have the easier it will be to defend (and move out from). I would highly recommend you experiment in singleplayer with different designs. Using the landscape to your advantage to make it easier for yourself and to find weak spots.

And just for the sake of Terrans
[image loading]

Start production from the center ones so they dont get blocked on finish.

Now you ask where are supplies made? Well you either choose to make factories above gas or right side of it. Any of the empty spots becomes supplies. Preferrably you do it right side so you can add extreme amount of factories. (the gols in picture shows where they exit center factories same as goons on Toss picture).