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[D] Flash's 1-1-1 Variation - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
January 21 2018 22:06 GMT
#21
Last and others also started to play more 1-1-1 (as always, Flash popularizes a style and everyone else follows), but with much less succes.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
onlystar
Profile Joined March 2015
United States971 Posts
January 21 2018 22:32 GMT
#22
oh actually totoally forgot ssak! he does this regularly!
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1422 Posts
January 22 2018 18:05 GMT
#23
On January 22 2018 07:06 kogeT wrote:
Last and others also started to play more 1-1-1 (as always, Flash popularizes a style and everyone else follows), but with much less succes.


even with much less success, winrates have gone up pretty across board
SirGlinG
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden933 Posts
January 22 2018 20:08 GMT
#24
On January 23 2018 03:05 jinjin5000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2018 07:06 kogeT wrote:
Last and others also started to play more 1-1-1 (as always, Flash popularizes a style and everyone else follows), but with much less succes.


even with much less success, winrates have gone up pretty across board


Where should i look for stats on this? Perhaps a place where you can see Last, Ssak, Flash, the other Terrans who use it.

I wonder about the others winrates, compared to Flash.
Not my chair. Not my problem. That's what I say
ortseam
Profile Joined April 2015
996 Posts
January 22 2018 21:40 GMT
#25
Here you can see winrates, overall and against individual races, for any time period you like over the last year, second column selects a race and third column is for maps. Top right gray box switches ranking system between ELO and winrate. You can find korean names from TLPD
SirGlinG
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden933 Posts
January 23 2018 17:30 GMT
#26
Thanks man!

Top 100 zergs should go on a seminar weekend, sit down with a council of the former top players. IF nothing of that works, perhaps 100 floors down behind a forbidden door you can go ask Savior what he thinks should be done.
Not my chair. Not my problem. That's what I say
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
January 23 2018 17:39 GMT
#27
On January 23 2018 06:40 ortseam wrote:
Here you can see winrates, overall and against individual races, for any time period you like over the last year, second column selects a race and third column is for maps. Top right gray box switches ranking system between ELO and winrate. You can find korean names from TLPD


Wow tesagi is real.. no single zerg with >50% winrate vs T. Now what is interesting we had a lot of zergs with good win rations vs Terran back in Kespa days. What has happened? Maps? (dominance of CB and FS)
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
Cryoc
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany909 Posts
January 23 2018 17:57 GMT
#28
On January 24 2018 02:39 kogeT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2018 06:40 ortseam wrote:
Here you can see winrates, overall and against individual races, for any time period you like over the last year, second column selects a race and third column is for maps. Top right gray box switches ranking system between ELO and winrate. You can find korean names from TLPD


Wow tesagi is real.. no single zerg with >50% winrate vs T. Now what is interesting we had a lot of zergs with good win rations vs Terran back in Kespa days. What has happened? Maps? (dominance of CB and FS)

If you use the complete available time frame from 05-2017 to 2018 you will see Effort and Soulkey and some Z that isn't in TLPD with winrates >50%.
http://www.twitch.tv/cryoc
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
January 23 2018 21:42 GMT
#29
feels like P>T>Z is pretty usual? Flash and last do well in tournys, other than that... Anyway, as with any new popular strat, give it some time and awesomeness of BW will find a balance.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
January 23 2018 21:59 GMT
#30
P>T>Z>P is correct.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-23 22:35:19
January 23 2018 22:34 GMT
#31
On January 24 2018 06:59 kogeT wrote:
P>T>Z>P is correct.

ye forgot that last important part
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
January 23 2018 23:37 GMT
#32
Can someone please explain the main advantage of going the 1-1-1 build is for Terran?

Also, what is Flash referring to in how Zerg now can play against 5 rax? What's causing Flash to change builds? Thanks.
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2394 Posts
January 24 2018 00:56 GMT
#33
On January 24 2018 06:59 kogeT wrote:
P>T>Z>P is correct.

Recently it feels more like

P ~ T > Z > P
The original Bogus fan.
Toss_Master
Profile Joined June 2017
United States46 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-24 01:30:57
January 24 2018 01:30 GMT
#34
It almost just seems like Flash > everyone else.
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
January 24 2018 01:55 GMT
#35
Here is a relevant VOD of when Effort tries Hydra-Queen against Flash's 1-1-1 build:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sGniJtaHTo0&t=1h7m42s
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28665 Posts
January 24 2018 05:01 GMT
#36
that's not really hydra-queen, more like a semi-failed hydra bust into 3 queens (that broodlinged 3 tanks) into mass ling, or something.
Moderator
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
January 24 2018 08:45 GMT
#37
Haven't watched a vod, but if Effort manages to kill 3 tanks with broodlings than that is quite a hydra-queen. To have 3 queens with brood ling at that time is already a huge commitment.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2037 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-24 14:40:54
January 24 2018 08:51 GMT
#38
On January 24 2018 08:37 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Can someone please explain the main advantage of going the 1-1-1 build is for Terran?

Also, what is Flash referring to in how Zerg now can play against 5 rax? What's causing Flash to change builds? Thanks.


1) You get a very good harasment potential before mutas are out, be it with vultures/wraith/dropship (not incl. that you can 8 rax into vulture)
2) You get a very good map vision and map control. Vultures put mines in critical expansions, can kill drones that go to expansions. You also limit whole vission with wraith killing ovies on high ground and vultures killing lings running around the map - that is the mindgame part. Zerg doesn't know what exactly terran does and terran can exactly prepare for what zerg is doing.
3) You get your tech MUCH quicker. What would normally be standard is 9:30~ vessel. Here Flash get 4 vessels at 9:00 mark.
4) All in all the build is very versatile and allows terran to adjust constantly, while in standard bio play you only get full scouting while your scans are out at around 6:00 mark.
5) The downside is different aggresion options that zerg has before terran setups whole production, be it various mass ling all ins, hydra allins etc.

As for your second point, there two main ideas about zergs learning how to deal with 5 rax. One is top zergs learned to be very good with muta ling and are not that scared to fight in the middle - if terran loses the initial 16 marines 4 medics without killing a significant amount of lings / mutas (and if bad positioning it can happen easily), terran can never really get the map control or threaten the 3rd. Second thing is zergs like to play things like 7 mutas lurker to secure the 3rd quicker. All in all, 5 rax is still super strong and one mistake from zerg can make it a game, but I Flash likes to achieve consistent results and he probably was losing some games here and there to above mentioned..
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
January 24 2018 14:20 GMT
#39
Koget and Liquid'Drone always make great posts. Thanks.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28665 Posts
January 25 2018 00:37 GMT
#40
On January 24 2018 17:45 kogeT wrote:
Haven't watched a vod, but if Effort manages to kill 3 tanks with broodlings than that is quite a hydra-queen. To have 3 queens with brood ling at that time is already a huge commitment.


I'm more saying it wasn't hydra than that it wasn't queen. basically he made 12-18 or so hydras before he made or used queens and after losing those hydras he was going pure ling defiler. queens and hydras weren't in play at the same time.
Moderator
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